Pumping Gas Fail

AlleyOops · Post by **AlleyOops** » Thu May 03, 2012 2:03 pm

So I finally took my buddy out of the small town/village I live in yesterday. Only about 10 miles or so up the road to Niagara Falls (No pictures sorry.. not sure I could even get the scoot close enough to get the falls in the background, will have to try some other time), but I've been avoiding leaving town because ALL roads out of town are 55mph somewhere for at least a mile or so. I've been riding a bit almost every day the weathers been nice for a past few weeks so I finally felt comfortable enough to go.

Anyways, learned a few things.
1. 50degress gets COLD fast when you are going 45mph+
2. Potholes suck... and the roads in Niagara Falls also suck, got some good weaving practice in thats for sure, there were a couple that I swear would have swallowed me whole.

Which brings me to my next question, I finally got the gas tank down to E and had to fill up for the first time. The automatic shut off kept going off every .1 gallons, so pretty much as soon as I squeezed the handle it shut off. Does it do this everywhere? Or should I just avoid this particular gas station? Since I was only putting a gallon in I kept going till it said 1 gallon, well I totally overfilled it and gas spilled everywhere.. including on me and into the pet carrier. Sigh.. of course theres a giant sticker saying "DO NOT OVERFILL" whoops...

michelle_7728 · Post by **michelle_7728** » Thu May 03, 2012 2:12 pm

Try staying warm at 60mph (70-72 indicated) if you don't have your warm winter jacket on.

Wind chill can be a pain.

On some gas pump nozzles you have to take your free hand and pull the outter sleeve up so that it's as close to the trigger mechanism that you can, to stop it from continually cutting off.

It's kind of hard to describe it, but if you look in your gas tank, you will see a little rim about 2 inches down. I put the gas nuzzle in, then pull it back out until it just comes off that rim, then barely put it back so that it is just barely inside the rim. Then I pump, listen, and watch. USUALLY it cuts off as it gets to that point, and a tiny trigger pull or two will fill it up...but JUST to that lower rim. Don't put gas in above that lower rim.

Then, if you slowly remove the nozzle, you can rotate the nozzle towards the sky (keeping it centered over your open fuel tank), and slowly remove it. I usually avoid any drippage by doing it this way.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Thu May 03, 2012 2:14 pm

Here's how I do it - in St. Louis, we've got the vapor-recovery plastic thingies that over-sleeve the actual fuel filler, and if that sleeve isn't retracted against its spring, the pump stops. Major pain, and I'm jealous of the states/areas that don't mandate that.

Anyway, I hold the vapor sleeve back with one hand, and stick the metal nozzle in maybe an inch below the second metal ring in the Buddy fuel tank - not the top ring where the cap seals on, but that second ring about 1.5 inches lower. I then pump until the nozzle clicks off, then back up a little, still compressing the vapor sleeve, and fill a little more until the fuel level is right at the lower ring. Don't fill higher than this, as gas can slosh into the tubing leading to the emissions canister and stall you out. Filling consistently to this level also lets me get a reasonably consistent check on my MPG.

Hope this helps.

Uncle Groucho · Post by **Uncle Groucho** » Thu May 03, 2012 2:21 pm

AlleyOops wrote:Which brings me to my next question, I finally got the gas tank down to E and had to fill up for the first time. The automatic shut off kept going off every .1 gallons, so pretty much as soon as I squeezed the handle it shut off. Does it do this everywhere? Or should I just avoid this particular gas station? Since I was only putting a gallon in I kept going till it said 1 gallon, well I totally overfilled it and gas spilled everywhere.. including on me and into the pet carrier. Sigh.. of course theres a giant sticker saying "DO NOT OVERFILL" whoops...

The total amount the tank holds is just around 1.2 gallons; what's puzzling is if you put in 1 gallon and still got spillage. Was the needle resting on the small tab on the far left or was it floating in the E section? You may have had just enough in the reserve for it to overflow.

Generally I track my mileage and when I've gone around 70 miles I'll keep a sharp eye on the needle and if it's resting on the tab, I'll pull over for gas. The auto shut-off usually kicks around half a gallon, I'll pull the nozzle out and squeeze gently until I get to 1 gallon. The gas is pretty much filled up to that top bracket under the cap. Usually after a few times this will be second nature. If you're getting better mileage, it may be 80-90 miles before you need to refill.

Sorry to hear about the overflow; but it could have been worse. Running out of gas about two miles from the nearest station and having to rely on someone's lawn mower gas can isn't fun either...

pdxrita · Post by **pdxrita** » Thu May 03, 2012 2:58 pm

Seconding (thirding? Fourthing?) what was described above - put the nozzle in a little ways, pull back the vapor recovery sleeve and start pumping. I usually only pull the trigger back about half way because 1 gallon comes out pretty quickly. Don't rely on the auto shutoff. You have to watch it and stop when it's full. Also, when pulling back the sleeve, you might have to try a couple of times before you find the right spot to get it to go.

So, that being said, the real reason I wanted to respond was to warn you that, since you overfilled it, you're probably going to experience vapor lock when this tank starts to get low - this was mentioned above, but I wanted to highlight it. What you'll experience is a frightening loss of power and then a stall. To stop this from occurring, ever, you have to drill a couple of small holes in your gas cap - one on the underside, and one on the handle. Just a heads up - if you experience this sort of stall, it's a result of the overfill and not an issue with your scooter (well, a design issue, maybe).

AlleyOops · Post by **AlleyOops** » Thu May 03, 2012 3:25 pm

Thanks for the tips! Sounds like I just have figure out the right position and keep an eye on it.

It was floating in the E section.. but was at 80 miles.. and I didn't want to risk running out of gas

Thanks for the gas cap tip... does everyone do this? Or should I just worry about it if I run into this issue? Could I just open/close the gas cap? I really know nothing about engines/scooters from a technical standpoint.

Maximus53 · Post by **Maximus53** » Thu May 03, 2012 3:29 pm

pdxrita wrote:Seconding (thirding? Fourthing?) what was described above - put the nozzle in a little ways, pull back the vapor recovery sleeve and start pumping. I usually only pull the trigger back about half way because 1 gallon comes out pretty quickly. Don't rely on the auto shutoff. You have to watch it and stop when it's full. Also, when pulling back the sleeve, you might have to try a couple of times before you find the right spot to get it to go.

So, that being said, the real reason I wanted to respond was to warn you that, since you overfilled it, you're probably going to experience vapor lock when this tank starts to get low - this was mentioned above, but I wanted to highlight it. What you'll experience is a frightening loss of power and then a stall. To stop this from occurring, ever, you have to drill a couple of small holes in your gas cap - one on the underside, and one on the handle. Just a heads up - if you experience this sort of stall, it's a result of the overfill and not an issue with your scooter (well, a design issue, maybe).

What is the fix when experiencing Vapor Lock? Pull over and pop the gas cap off and replace it?

AWinn6889 · Post by **AWinn6889** » Thu May 03, 2012 3:32 pm

As far as I know there aren't any gas stations in NY with the "vapor recovery sleeve"... so I wouldn't worry about that part.
Also make sure you either have the nozzle aimed perfectly right when you get toward a full tank, or don't fill it up the last half inch, if you're slightly off with your aim the gas will shoot at that metal ring in there and blast you in the face. It's happened to me once or twice on some of the pumps that have a faster flow/more pressure behind them.

heatherkay · Post by **heatherkay** » Thu May 03, 2012 9:07 pm

There are some pumps that I stopped taking my car to because they were so slow. Those are now my preferred fill-ups for the scooter.

Cheshire · Post by **Cheshire** » Thu May 03, 2012 9:48 pm

The gas gauge is not the most accurate. Don't worry, it's that way with lots of 2-wheeled vehicles. I usually had 20+ miles of fuel left when the 125's needle was on E. The Vulcan has roughly 75 miles difference between the needle hitting E and the low fuel light coming on...and I usually have another 20 miles once the light comes on.

Looking down into the tank is the way to go. Don't pull the pump handle all the way: it'll foam up and splash like crazy. Watch for the fuel to get near the top and go by what you see. I pretty much ignore the numbers on the pump while I'm fueling up.

As for staying warm: wind-proof outer (or middle) layers are AMAZING.

All my riding gear (expect for my summer gloves) are wind blocking.

velobuff · Post by **velobuff** » Thu May 03, 2012 10:00 pm

...or just don't top-off. I end up spilling every time I try to top-off on any of my scooters. I've learned it's done when it clicks - unless the click is unreasonably soon in which case I reposition the nozzle and let it fill up on the slowest/lowest speed.

agrogod · Post by **agrogod** » Thu May 03, 2012 10:23 pm

Of course you could just get yourself a gas can and fill that. Keep it at the house and fill up at your leisure.

Stormswift · Post by **Stormswift** » Thu May 03, 2012 11:53 pm

agrogod wrote:Of course you could just get yourself a gas can and fill that. Keep it at the house and fill up at your leisure.

That is what I like to do, especially when I forget to stop at the gas station on my way home. Saves me time in the mornings. I have a smallish gas can that is good for about 2 refuels . That is a week worth of going to work for me.

opposable_thumbs · Post by **opposable_thumbs** » Fri May 04, 2012 12:37 am

agrogod wrote:Of course you could just get yourself a gas can and fill that. Keep it at the house and fill up at your leisure.

I do this as well. I don't mind stopping for gas but I just seem to forget.

LivinThaDream · Post by **LivinThaDream** » Fri May 04, 2012 12:43 am

There's also this: http://www.mccuff.com/

I don't have one, but when I first got my Buddy I was seriously considering it, but I've gotten a lot better at eyeballing it.

*Warning* that page has a video that plays automatically... those annoy me to no end.

pdxrita · Post by **pdxrita** » Fri May 04, 2012 3:17 am

AlleyOops wrote:Thanks for the tips! Sounds like I just have figure out the right position and keep an eye on it.

It was floating in the E section.. but was at 80 miles.. and I didn't want to risk running out of gas

Thanks for the gas cap tip... does everyone do this? Or should I just worry about it if I run into this issue? Could I just open/close the gas cap? I really know nothing about engines/scooters from a technical standpoint.

I'd say you can wait and see what happens before you drill your cap. I just wanted to give you a heads up so you don't get too freaked out if this happens. If it does happen, you can try opening the cap and restarting. But that might just get you up the road a couple of miles before it happens again. As for when to fill, you can wait until the needle goes all the way to the peg as long as you're able to fill up pretty soon after that.

jonesygirl · Post by **jonesygirl** » Sat May 05, 2012 9:57 am

LivinThaDream wrote:There's also this: http://www.mccuff.com/

I don't have one, but when I first got my Buddy I was seriously considering it, but I've gotten a lot better at eyeballing it.

*Warning* that page has a video that plays automatically... those annoy me to no end.

That looked like a great idea, but on amazon there are 2 reviews- both are bad= 1 star reviews. I was tempted from the video (I agree, those are annoying).
I like the idea of keeping a can of gas at the house. Since I've had my scooter, I've filled up 3 times and only this last time can I say I did it "successfully". If my next fill up goes bad, I will buy a gas can.

KABarash · Post by **KABarash** » Sat May 05, 2012 12:34 pm

jonesygirl wrote:
I like the idea of keeping a can of gas at the house. Since I've had my scooter, I've filled up 3 times and only this last time can I say I did it "successfully". If my next fill up goes bad, I will buy a gas can.

Gas can?? It's almost always empty cause I use it for the lawn tractor and it's difficult to carry on the scooter....

Well there's one good thing about living in our part of Pennsylvania, 99 44/100% of the gas stations don't have the vapor sleeves, use one of those stations. (Don't use the vapor sleeve stations)
I usually insert only 1-1 1/2 inches of the nozzle into the tank, that's right at the bottom of the lip thingie anyhow. Squeeze gently, don't let the gas flow too fast, keep your eye on it and slow the flow as needed, stop the flow yourself don't wait till the auto-stop does it for you......

jonesygirl · Post by **jonesygirl** » Sun May 06, 2012 12:05 am

I went for a morning ride today because it was so nice out. Stopped to fill up on my way home. It took 1.02 gallons but it took forever because I was trying to be super careful and slow. While I was there, 2 other bikes filled up and left. Lol! I'll get the hang of it eventually.

MrNatural · Post by **MrNatural** » Sun May 06, 2012 1:01 am

I've never dared rely on the auto-shutoff mechanism at the pump. As several have related here, I put the tip of the nozzel in about 2" then gently squeeze the handle to flow that gas as slowly as possible, watching very carefully as it fills.
I usually drive until I'm nearly out of gas and usually get in about 1.35 gallons.

LunaP · Post by **LunaP** » Sun May 06, 2012 4:52 pm

AlleyOops, for cold... just look into good cold weather gear.

Balaclava/neckgaiter, good winter jacket (waterproof!), good winter gloves, handlebar muffs, scooter skirt of any kind. Thermal/wool socks + boots.

Capt_Don · Post by **Capt_Don** » Sat May 19, 2012 6:17 pm

I learned my lesson trying to fill up my Tomos Arrow, the worlds most messed up gas tank ever! (I can't back that up.) On it there is a release valve so the gas will go down and you can put more in. So I got used to going slowly, I do not mind. On my first fill up, in the 170i, I was spill free, but the second one I did drip a little, and those damn plasic sleeves here in STL are terrible no matter what you are filling, I hate them when filling up my Mercury too!

The added time to do is slowly is worth the money I save though, and i keep napkins in my seat to wipe down and dribbles.

Mutt the Hoople · Post by **Mutt the Hoople** » Sat May 19, 2012 7:03 pm

Good news. Because cars gave had gas tanks that don't allow the vapors to escape like they used to for a number of years now, Gas stations will no longer be required to have those stupid sleeves, although as far as I can tell... No one has removed them. And then... There are a few full-service stations out there... One on Union and Green Park on the south side not too far from I-55. That works pretty brilliantly

Dage'sVew · Post by **Dage'sVew** » Sun May 20, 2012 2:06 pm

My solution after having slopped gasoline once too often was to design The Buddy Bib!!

I took one of Vince's super absorbent sham wows and shaped it to fit around the gas cap. Any drips or dribbles are soaked up before they have a chance to run. I toss it back in its ziplock bag and when I get home take it out, rinse it or air dry it, and back into the pet carrier it goes. It takes up virtually no room and is right there ready for use when you stop to fill up. Only takes a few seconds to put in place. You could even make several at a time and just toss one away after it gets used.

Capt_Don · Post by **Capt_Don** » Sun May 20, 2012 3:09 pm

Dage'sVew wrote:My solution after having slopped gasoline once too often was to design The Buddy Bib!! I took one of Vince's super absorbent sham wows and shaped it to fit around the gas cap. Any drips or dribbles are soaked up before they have a chance to run. I toss it back in its ziplock bag and when I get home take it out, rinse it or air dry it, and back into the pet carrier it goes. It takes up virtually no room and is right there ready for use when you stop to fill up. Only takes a few seconds to put in place. You could even make several at a time and just toss one away after it gets used.

OK, I am impressed, and may do that now.

Modern Buddy

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