front tire slow leak?

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bimbom
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front tire slow leak?

Post by bimbom »

My front tire is normally at 28psi and the back at 30psi. I have a gauge and I check it periodically when the tire is cold.

I noticed my front getting down to about 26 and thought nothing of it. A few days later I saw it was down to 22. At the point I went to the gas station and pumped it up to 30. Now the next day its back down to 26.

(the back one is consistently at 30). So there's a leak somewhere, but what I'm wondering is can I go to one of local tire places, which are very cheap around me, or do I have to take it in to a Buddy dealer?

I ride on some pretty damn bumpy roads, not your average smoothly paved suburban street.
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hardd1
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Post by hardd1 »

check your valve core stem for tightness
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Post by bimbom »

hardd1 wrote:check your valve core stem for tightness
Thanks for the tip hardd1, do I need a special tool to tighten this. Or can I just use some kind of plier if it is loose?
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Post by pdxrita »

You should be able to get in there with needle nose pliers. If not, then you can get some sort of tool anywhere that sells bicycle stuff. It should be pretty cheap. I've got one that's built into the top of a valve cap.
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Post by bimbom »

pdxrita wrote:You should be able to get in there with needle nose pliers. If not, then you can get some sort of tool anywhere that sells bicycle stuff. It should be pretty cheap. I've got one that's built into the top of a valve cap.
Is it the whole piece that gets tightened? or are you just talking about the tiny stem within the valve?
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Post by pdxrita »

It's the valve part which is inside of the stem. If you look in there, you'll see the little pin that opens and closes the valve, and a rectangular shaped thing supporting it. That entire assembly screws into the inside of the stem and that's what you need to tighten.
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Post by dsmith65 »

I can flip my valve cap over and it has a slot for tightening the valve stem. Check to see if yours does too.
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bimbom
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Post by bimbom »

dsmith65 wrote:I can flip my valve cap over and it has a slot for tightening the valve stem. Check to see if yours does too.
This makes sense.. I was wondering what the thing on the outside of the cap was. I'll try it when I'm home.. thanks for the tip.
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Post by PeteH »

Yep - the stock valve caps on my '09 had the little plastic valve wrench on top - you can unscrew the cap, flip it over, and use the top of the cap as a wrench to tighten (or replace) a valve stem core.

Since I bought, however, one of the caps has sort-of self-destructed after numerous pressure checks (whenever I'm at a gas station with free air). I should go by a bicycle shop or an auto-parts joint and get a couple of the metal versions of these caps.
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Post by bimbom »

I made an impulse buy the other day. I figured one of these would be good to have around anyway:

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00915309000P


The thing works but it is LOUD, with an obnoxious timbre. It's also more obese than I expected.
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Post by PeteH »

I've got a small compressor as well (part of a nailer kit). I picked up a tire-filler chuck and have used it when a tire is too flat to drive to the gas station. It's a bit of a drag pulling it out of the basement, taking it outside, dragging power, etc., but having one has helped out once or twice.
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Post by pdxrita »

We've got a Harbor Freight air compressor. It is pretty big and it's very LOUD. I think that's par for the course, though. All air compressors are loud. It does come in handy on a pretty frequent basis.
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Post by bimbom »

Can anyone link me the proper valve tool I can use to tighten the valve stem? The caps I have aren't the originals and don't have the plastic tool on the other end.

I saw some on autozone's website, but I wasn't sure if the ones for cars are usable on scooters as well (wouldn't the torque amount on the valve stem on a scooter tire be different?)
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Post by pdxrita »

Any valve stem tool should work. It's the same from bicycles to motorcycles to scooters to your wheelbarrow :lol: . I don't think there's a specific torque value. Just make sure it's screwed in all the way. This is really a pretty minor thing and it might not even be the cause of your slow leak. It's just a good place to start. Simply make sure it's screwed in until it stops.
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Post by PeteH »

Car stems and motorcycle/scooters are the same - Schrader valves. Been around > 100 years.

You want these:

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Available here, or at almost any auto-parts store.

If you're paranoid, or if tightening the valve core snugly doesn't stop the leak, you can pick up a couple of new valve cores at the same time. A little soapy water poured into the valve stem should tell you if it's leaking.
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Post by bimbom »

I got a valve core tool today and used it to check the tightness of the valves. Basically the tool has a set maximum torque to prevent overtightening, and will "click" once you reach that torque.

I checked my front tire's valve stem with the tool and it seemed to be tightened properly. Honestly I have a theory that maybe I was just checking my air so much that it was losing a bit each time.


Anyway, I also picked up these valve caps which seem pretty interesting:

You can just look at them and quickly tell if your tire is deflated too much. But I'm now wondering if they're a bad purchase since they permanently leave the valve open in order to get a pressure reading.
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Post by k1dude »

bimbom wrote:I got a valve core tool today and used it to check the tightness of the valves. Basically the tool has a set maximum torque to prevent overtightening, and will "click" once you reach that torque.

I checked my front tire's valve stem with the tool and it seemed to be tightened properly. Honestly I have a theory that maybe I was just checking my air so much that it was losing a bit each time.


Anyway, I also picked up these valve caps which seem pretty interesting:

You can just look at them and quickly tell if your tire is deflated too much. But I'm now wondering if they're a bad purchase since they permanently leave the valve open in order to get a pressure reading.
Checking your tire pressure often will definitely drop your pressure. I estimate a quarter pound each time you check.

Valve covers that show your pressure could be problematic. There were some MB members that had problems a few years back of those devices ripping their valve stems off. The devices weighed too much and eventually ripped the stems off. It was anecdotal and never verified. But it's something to consider.
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Post by PeteH »

I've seen those caps with a visual pressure indication - you buy them rated at 30, 32, 35, whatever PSI.

I don't know what they weigh, but I've also heard (anecdotally) that it's not a terribly good idea to increase the mass at the valve stem. It could work the stem loose as noted above, since our tiny wheels spin more per mile, and a heavy cap could give you wheel-balance problems, increasing vibration, tire wear, lots of things.
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Post by bimbom »

Hmm, now I'm second-guessing my purchase. I bought the 32 PSI ones. It is nice to have a quick visual check that the tires are good. They don't seem THAT heavy but I'm no expert.

If the tip of the cap is all green, you know you're at or close to 32psi. Halfway down you're 5psi under, and fully clear you're 10psi under or more.
PeteH wrote:I've seen those caps with a visual pressure indication - you buy them rated at 30, 32, 35, whatever PSI.

I don't know what they weigh, but I've also heard (anecdotally) that it's not a terribly good idea to increase the mass at the valve stem. It could work the stem loose as noted above, since our tiny wheels spin more per mile, and a heavy cap could give you wheel-balance problems, increasing vibration, tire wear, lots of things.
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Post by PeteH »

Well, don't panic just yet. Ride it for a while and see if you notice any added vibration. That's the first indicator of an out-of-balance condition. If the weight of the caps is low enough, it won't adversely affect the balance. Keep an eye on your pressure at each ride, too, as if the stems start to leak air, you'll know it quickly with those visual indicators.

You still haven't exactly resolved whether your tire itself is actually leaking, but let us know how things progress.
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Post by Dean F »

NO! Get the automatic checkers off of your valves! Somewhere between 30 and 50 BMPH they will rip your stems off of the 10 inch rims!
Trust me... I have been there!
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Post by bimbom »

Dean F wrote:NO! Get the automatic checkers off of your valves! Somewhere between 30 and 50 BMPH they will rip your stems off of the 10 inch rims!
Trust me... I have been there!
ruh roh, this doesn't sound good.
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Post by k1dude »

If you have a slow leak somewhere, you might consider putting some Slime in the tire. I've never used slime before, but I use Stan's NoTubes in my mountain bike tires and it works great. Maybe someone with Slime experience can pipe up.
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Post by PeteH »

Ok, the voice of experience should trump the voice of speculation.

So has anyone replaced their valve stems with bolt-ins rather than our rubber-gasket models? If you upgraded -and- balanced your wheels, I would -speculate- that you could up the mass on the stem.
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Post by pdxrita »

Personally, I think everyone is way overthinking this. It probably is the case that bimbom's slow leak was due to checking the pressure too frequently, thus causing a noticeable quick drop in pressure. In my opinion, you should only check the pressure about once a month unless you have reason to believe it's low. So I'd say ditch the fancy caps, ditch the fancy torque checking valve stem tool (overkill, IMHO), check your pressure one last time to make sure it's good and then set a date on your calendar for one month from now to check it again. Oh, and by the way, another reason to not mess with those stems too frequently is that over manipulating them can cause them to crack and fail. We've had a few people on this board who experienced that and it sounds quite scary and dangerous because it results in a rapid loss of air. When you do check your pressure, and when you add air, always support the valve stem from behind while you're putting the tool on the valve so you don't bend the stem backwards.
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Post by bimbom »

pdxrita wrote:Personally, I think everyone is way overthinking this. It probably is the case that bimbom's slow leak was due to checking the pressure too frequently, thus causing a noticeable quick drop in pressure. In my opinion, you should only check the pressure about once a month unless you have reason to believe it's low. So I'd say ditch the fancy caps, ditch the fancy torque checking valve stem tool (overkill, IMHO), check your pressure one last time to make sure it's good and then set a date on your calendar for one month from now to check it again. Oh, and by the way, another reason to not mess with those stems too frequently is that over manipulating them can cause them to crack and fail. We've had a few people on this board who experienced that and it sounds quite scary and dangerous because it results in a rapid loss of air. When you do check your pressure, and when you add air, always support the valve stem from behind while you're putting the tool on the valve so you don't bend the stem backwards.
This is good advice.. I always support the valve stem from behind when I am putting any kind of pressure on it. I will stop worrying about this unless I really notice a big drop in pressure. However I do want to check for any leaking on the stem.. how do you do it using soapy water? Are there any good videos out there I can follow?
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Post by PeteH »

Roll the wheel so that the valve stem is at the 6:00 position. Make a mixture of dish soap and water, like 50/50 so that it has plenty of soap. Spoon some of it around the valve stem where it meets the wheel and look for bubble formation.

With a right-angle stem, you can't easily get the soapy water mix into the valve itself, but try spooning in a little with the front wheel turned, and maybe you can get some liquid in there. An eye dropper might help. Use your center stand for this, in case you're swinging the wheel about.

You might also take this opportunity to do a careful inspection of the tread area and sidewalls just to make sure you haven't picked up a nail.
Last edited by PeteH on Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by bimbom »

PeteH wrote:Roll the wheel so that the valve stem is at the 6:00 position. Make a mixture of dish soap and water, like 50/50 so that it has plenty of soap. Spoon some of it around the valve stem where it meets the wheel and look for bubble formation.

With a right-angle stem, you can't easily get the soapy water mix into the valve itself, but try spooning in a little with the front wheel turned, and maybe you can get some liquid in there. An eye dropper might help. Use your center stand for this, in case you're swinging the wheel about.
Thanks Pete I will try this this weekend.
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Post by ericalm »

Yup. You can also try spraying (lots of) soapy water on the tire and looking for bubbles. Or submerging it in water (remove the tire first, ha).
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Post by bimbom »

Not sure if this has anything to do with the safety valve pressure caps, but on my morning commute today I noticed a squeaking/squealing noise. I thought maybe it was related to the rain last night but I had my Buddy completed covered.

At first it seemed to be related to the brakes, but then I noticed it even when I wasn't braking, but simply slowing down (letting off the throttle). It went away when I throttled.

I didn't notice until about halfway through the commute, and then it seemed to get a bit more frequent the longer I rode.


Not sure if anyone knows what this might be?
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Post by pdxrita »

Try taking those caps off for the ride home and see if the noise goes away. It won't hurt anything to ride without caps for a bit. They just keep the dirt out of the valve.
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Post by bimbom »

pdxrita wrote:Try taking those caps off for the ride home and see if the noise goes away. It won't hurt anything to ride without caps for a bit. They just keep the dirt out of the valve.
I put back on the regular valve caps and still have the problem. It's not noticable in the first few minutes of riding, but then begins. It doesn't seem to be related to the brakes because it happens when I'm slowing down even without using brakes.

The noise is coming from the front.
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Dealer told me tires would lose pressure on their own

Post by pinthea »

First post to this forum, long time lurker... =)

Just purchased my brand new Buddy Pamplona 170i today. Love it!

But just prior to driving away with wild abandon, the owner told me to check the tire pressure regularly since the tires lose pressure over time, as if it was a known thing with the Buddy.

I never experienced that with any of the scooters I've owned before (Burgman, Majesty, Scarabeo).

Is this a Buddy thing?
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Post by pdxrita »

I have not had any issues with my tires losing pressure. It's not a bad idea to check them periodically, but unless you observe issues, you shouldn't worry too much about it. When I first got my scooter, I checked about every week. Since then, I've gotten a lot more lax about it and check them maybe once every two months or so. At the most, they might show up as being a pound or two down, but that could also be from the loss of air when putting on the gauge. I'd suggest starting off with checking them on a fairly frequent basis, maybe once every two weeks or so, and then once you're comfortable that they're not really changing, dial it back.

(Lots of new Portland folks on here lately. I have yet to see a 170i in the wild, though. C'mon folks, get out there. :D )
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Re: Dealer told me tires would lose pressure on their own

Post by ericalm »

pinthea wrote:Is this a Buddy thing?
Not normally. I'd check the stems. Depending on your riding, you should normally only have to check them every couple of weeks or so.
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Post by Tocsik »

  • Check your pressure every few weeks unless there is something visually amiss or you notice a difference in the ride.
    A manual bicycle tire pump (floor style) is fine for these small tires; I've used one for 4 years on my Buddy and only use my compressor if I happen to have it aired-up or when putting on new tires.
    Don't put any kooky valve stem caps unless they are just low profile decorative ones.
    Don't use those LED tire flys; lots of stories of acute failure with sudden loss of pressure.
    Inspect your valve stems for cracks! Many of us have had valve stem failures in the rubber where they go into the rim.
    Be sure the valve stem core is tightened; but not too tight. It's just a little brass and rubber valve holding back a measly 30 psi!.
    Change your valve stems every other new tire or every new tire if you are so inclined.
    Don't worry so much 8) .
    Listen to pdxrita. For some reason, she is often the voice of reason.
.::I know the voices in my head aren't real, but man do they come up with some great ideas::.
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