Electrical Troubleshoot Help PLEASE

Juddly450 · Post by **Juddly450** » Sat Aug 04, 2012 6:36 am

So, I attempted to hook up the deadlights with a home-made adapter similar to what I've read about on this site. But, as soon as I hooked up the adapter to the deadlights and tried to start my scoot I had no power at all to the started switch. Absolutely dead! I took off the adapter and put everything back the way it was...but, still absolutely dead.

I tested the battery, it's all good, the fuses just before the battery are all good as well. After kickstarting and let idle for a minute I tried the turn signals (still, back to original set up) and I heard a buzz sound coming from the front. This also occured when trying to switch on the flashers while running; buzzing sound coming from the front wire area.

Once I shut her off and tried the electric start...still, absolutely nothing.

Thoughts? Ideas? Possible blown fuse I'm not finding?

Thanks so much for the feedback! Any bit is much appreciated.

So bummed I can't ride tonight..

easy · Post by **easy** » Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:32 am

weak battery will cause flash relay to buzz

jonlink · Post by **jonlink** » Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:52 pm

More info might help. Where did you try to connect the adapter? Are the deadlights LEDs or incandescent? Do you have any pics?

I'd double check the fuses. It sounds like one blew—don't ask me how I know. It could also be a short.

pdxrita · Post by **pdxrita** » Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:31 pm

Can you give more details about how you connected it? What color wire did you tap for the power source? How did yo go about grounding it? That might give some clues as to what could have possibly been damaged. My initial thought is that it might have something to do with the flasher relay, because of the buzzing you're describing.

VSP · Post by **VSP** » Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:01 pm

easy wrote:weak battery will cause flash relay to buzz

+1

I'm guessing that as you were testing your connections, you had the key off and on for periods longer than what the battery could handle under load.
What is the voltage with the scooter off?
What is the voltage with it running?
It should be at least 13V when running. Try charging the battery overnight with a tender. This should take care of the problem.
If you don't have a charger, you can disconnect your deadlights and go for a really long, high speed ride. Not as fool proof as the tender but it should recharge the battery enough to solve the problem.

Also, check all of your connections on the battery itself. A loose connection can also cause these problems.

Juddly450 · Post by **Juddly450** » Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:49 pm

Thanks for the quick replies! Sorry my Internet has been down all weekend. So okay I'm posting a pic of the wire I t-tapped into. Here is a break down of what I did:

-T tapped into orange wire (I believe is the ignition)
-ran 2 wires off of the tap: one for each dead light side. I only used one side in my picture to explain better.

I am just trying to get it back to normal at this point. I checked the following:

-battery (has power, but around 8v)
-the 2 fuses just off of the battery tested with power on each side
-I am not getting any power to my 12v phone charger even when running

-do you think I need to change or at least charge the battery?
-are there any fuses that I am missing that need to be replaced?
-should I change the flasher or will it be good once batt has enough power?

After riding it to work today I noticed that If the blinker would come one but remain very, very week and eventually fade away.

Thanks so much!

VSP · Post by **VSP** » Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:01 pm

I am just trying to get it back to normal at this point. Have you removed all of your wiring and returned things to how they were before?

-battery (has power, but around 8v) This is way below where it needs to be for everything to function as it should. Please see my responce above.

-I am not getting any power to my 12v phone charger even when running This outlet should always be hot even when the scooter is not running. Follow the wiring from the back of the outlet to an inline fuse. Check/replace as needed.

-do you think I need to change or at least charge the battery? YES.

-should I change the flasher or will it be good once batt has enough power? If you're sticking with the stock bulbs you can keep the stock relay. If you plan to change any of the existing blinkers to LED bulbs, you will need a Universal Relay.

After riding it to work today I noticed that If the blinker would come one but remain very, very week and eventually fade away. This is becasue the battery is recharging slightly as you ride but has not fully recoved. Again, see above on how to charge.

Juddly450 · Post by **Juddly450** » Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:08 pm

-yes I immediately returned to original set up after no elec start

-sounds like the 1a fuse (or 2a in my case) blew so...will replace as well

-will also charge battery and if that doesn't work will replace

-will run LED's in the future so, for now will stick with current one.

Thanks so much! Sounds like this will work.

I feel like this forum is the "Buddy table of wisdom"

Much appreciated and will update!

Juddly450 · Post by **Juddly450** » Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:42 am

Update:

-Bought a charger, charged overnight. Hooked back up, nothing.

-took to local auto parts: they tested it, indicated it had 13v with 230 cranking amps. So, battery appears to be good.

Bittersweet: what next? Since the two fuses just off the battery were not burnt out...are there any other fuses I can check? I even replaced the 2a for the 12v hookup and still have no power there. Is this indicative of what the problem is other than the battery?

Thanks! (scratching my head)

pdxrita · Post by **pdxrita** » Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:34 am

Looking at your wiring diagram, it looks to me like you shorted the ignition to ground. That orange wire does feed into the flasher relay, so maybe that got fried and is shorting everything out? Maybe try removing the connections from the relay and see if you're able to start with it removed.

Juddly450 · Post by **Juddly450** » Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:44 am

I agree that the ignition is probably shorted out....how would I disconnect the relay? Not sure I know exactly where that is...follow the orange ignition wire up or...?

pdxrita · Post by **pdxrita** » Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:00 am

I don't know the answer to that since I've never worked on that part. I suppose you might be able to locate it by running it with the front cover off and listening for where the sound is coming from. You might also want to take a look at the service manual. There is a section on troubleshooting this sort of issue, starting on page 97.

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:07 am

Agreed; the relay is probably fried. If not, you may have a loose ground wire or something like that caused by moving things around during the original install.

In the Parts Diagrams, page F13, the relay is part #21.

agrogod · Post by **agrogod** » Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:09 am

As stated above the buzzing is the flasher unit.

pdxrita said: Looking at your wiring diagram, it looks to me like you shorted the ignition to ground.

I have to agree with this, as the picture you supplied seems to indicate this, which means flasher replacement. And with that type of ignition short there may be damage to the ignition switch itself (where you put the key in), a Multimeter and some wire diagnostics will help confirm.

If you are unsure about electrical issue's either get help from a friend that knows electric to help trace the problem (cheap), or take it to the shop (expensive).

I'd almost bet that you have a burnt through wire or relay some where along the ignition circuit which is why you don't have electric start, and the wonky issue's with the lights.

Juddly450 · Post by **Juddly450** » Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:27 pm

Thanks for the response guys. Much appreciated to know I'm not flying solo out here!

-I'm going to order a universal flasher relay from voodoo.

-With the battery tested out to be ok...and the stated issues with the flasher relay it seams that a universal flasher relay will be the next step in this process. I'll have to switch over to LED's but...planned on it anyway.

-Sound about ok?

Post by **jrsjr** » Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:16 am

Juddly450 wrote:What next? Since the two fuses just off the battery were not burnt out ...are there any other fuses I can check?

Not yet, see discussion and diagram below.

Juddly450 wrote:I even replaced the 2a for the 12v hookup and still have no power there. Is this indicative of what the problem is other than the battery?

That's actually a really good question! When I read that, I suddenly remembered something you posted earlier (see explanation below).

Take a look at the marked-up electrical diagram below. The "cell phone power outlet" sits in a unique place in the Buddy's electrical system. According to the diagram, that outlet should always be powered unless the battery is disconnected and the motor is not running. That is why I'm posting. I think if you figure that out, you will at least have made some progress in troubleshooting the problem. With the ignition switch turned to the OFF position, you should have voltage to that outlet from the battery, unless one of the two fuses is blown, the wire is broken, or the associated ground wire has somehow been disconnected. So, if you're game here is what I suggest.

With the Ignition OFF - Part One
Do you have a voltmeter? One with an insulated test probe? What I want you to do is touch the black test probe directly to the negative terminal of the battery and (carefully) insert the insulated red test probe into the power outlet and touch the electrode down in the center of the power outlet where the male connector electrode normally makes contact and read the voltage. Under these test conditions, it should be the exact same voltage as your battery. If you don't see that voltage then there must be an interruption in that circuit which probably is a burned out fuse. I mention this because I noticed in an earlier post you said that you checked for voltage on either side of the main fuse. If you did that with the motor running and then assumed that meant the main fuse was good, that could be an incorrect assumption because voltage could have been coming to one side of a blown fuse from the battery and the other side from the voltage regulator (as the partial schematic below shows). That's what you posted earlier that made me wonder.

When you test the fuses, you need to pull them out of their sockets and test with your ohm meter (or continuity tester).

Do not continue to Part Two until you complete Part One.

With the Ignition still OFF - Part Two
Find the flasher and unplug it. Somebody on here should be able to tell you exactly where it is. I've never changed one on a Buddy and I don't have a Buddy scooter to go look at, so you'll have to get somebody else to tell you where that is. Below is the sketch from the Genuine Parts Diagram document to show you what it looks like. For verification purposes, the schematic shows that it has three wires to it, Black, Blue with a White tracer, and Orange. Unplug it. Now turn the ignition ON. At this point, if you hear noises, see smoke, smell burning, or anything else alarming, turn the ignition back off immediately and post back.

Now, with the suspect flasher out, try the electric start. Does the electric start work now?

P.S. Just FYI, the cell phone charger fuse is specified on the schematic as 1 Amp. I wouldn't put a 2 Amp fuse in there, though many do...

Juddly450 · Post by **Juddly450** » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:36 pm

Great info. Will check when I get home from work. Much appreciated!
I do have a voltmeter. But used the very basic light indicator one to see if I even had power going to the red wire that feeds into the 12v...running or not, had nothing. That's why I changed the fuse earlier and still nothing. But, I will follow your steps to verify!

Thanks again.