Self Defense

gilbee · Post by **gilbee** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:37 am

So the other night, i was on my way home at about 9:30. I was keeping up with the speed of traffic and pulling out ahead of the pack at stop lights. I spent some time in the left lane, and was moving over for people behind me. Then some crack head lady in a old civic started tailing me while i was in the left lane. When we reached a light she stuck her head out the window and screeched "MOVE OVER!"
at this point i was livid. mostly at the fact that she would tail a scooter at night and then be so rude as to yell at me.

so i replied "BACK THE F*CK UP!" she yelled again "MOVE OVER!"
of course i wasn't going to be polite at this point.
so i yelled back at her "SEE WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU DON'T BACK THE F*CK UP! I WILL F*CK YOUR CAR UP!"
so the light turns green and she's still on my ass. she then finds her way around me and hits the breaks. of curse my reaction time is ok so i don't even come close to hitting her. so i flipped on my brights and followed her to the next light.
(it just so happens that we were going the same way anyways, and i wouldn't go out of my way to follow her)
I pulled up next to her, and she's glaring at me, so i yelled "YOU NEED TO LEARN SOME F*CKING RESPECT!"
and then she turned the corner (out of my way home) and i continued my journey home.
of course if she hadn't tailed me, and just waited for me to move over for her, none of this would have happened.

have you ever dealt with anything like this? what did you do about it? what would you have done in my situation?
do you cary anything with you in case of hostile situations?

am i crazy? lol

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:54 am

Glad you came out of it unscathed.
No matter if you are right or wrong, you are at greater risk on a scooter, bicycle or motorcycle compared to a car/truck/SUV.
It can be hard to suck it up and just let the crazy $h!t just slide off of you but you will be much better off if you can learn that the easy way, instead of losing a battle between your scooter and a car.

Fact is, there will always be idiots out there who are either simple minded, insecure about a scooter being ahead of them or just messed-up in the head and have the potential to cause you harm.

It took me a long time to get control of my short fuse and sense of "hey, I'm in the right here and you are just evil" and I really have more fun riding when I let the a-holes just go on their a-hole way.

That bitch in the car is never going to be convinced that you were in the right and she was wrong in regards to her riding your tail.

Post by **jmazza** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:59 am

+1 What Tocsik said.

One other note about the last question (do you carry anything with you). We have had topics like that here before and they always end up locked. We don't need to go down that road again.

TroutBum · Post by **TroutBum** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:42 am

It's not worth it. It's dangerous and stressful. You would be better off letting them pass and making it home to ride another day. It took me many years to finally figure that out. Situations like that used to get my blood boiling. I mean I would get home and it would be hours before I came down off my anger or I would have a sleepless night which meant the next day I was the pits.

gilbee · Post by **gilbee** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:23 am

I'm really glad that I have something in common with such expietenced people.
I feel better knowing that I can look to you guys for advise. And I feel like you guys are right. I'd rather not Cary anything with me. I'd rather not put my self in those kinds of situations. Keeping my composure is something that i'm working on. And I definitely feel better knowing that I should keep a cool head and just move on.
I'll keep all this in mind tomorrow while I'm on the road, and from now on.

Seriously, thank you.

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:34 am

The advantage of being aware and on a bike is maneuverability. Make yourself obvious, leave a path and don't be afraid to use prodigious amounts of the accelerator when possible!

Living in downtown Phoenix, road rage is common, but with me it actually doesn't set me off. I drove a Taxi for a few years during the "dark period" between my layoff from one University and my hiring at where I work now. After being the "bad guy" no matter what you do, you kind of smile when someone loses their shit at you for the slightest infraction. My wife yells, screams and what not but I just shrug and make sure they're as far from me as possible. *Rarely* does an event even get more than a flipping of the bird from me if that when I'm on the road. Elsewhere in society I'll admit I have a hot temper. But, driving a cab really just put me chill when I'm commuting. Dunno why.

But, there are *some* people who are looking for someone easy to bully. Bad part is that I have a mouth that doesn't match what my body can (or in my case, can not) back up. So, if I can't be witty I try to exercise restraint. If that happens in traffic, better to play speed racer and just avoid the jerk than to get sucked into something. I'll take an exhibition of speed ticket over an assault charge anyday.

Do I conceal carry? Yes. BUT... I also have my career to think about, and that puts me in a position where I can't just get in someone's face or get aggressive. It really makes you think about every action when you know a bad altercation could lead to not only legal trouble, but you being fired and having your ENTIRE career snuffed out! As was mentioned before, many threads like this have been locked for getting out of hand over political, moral and ethical differences. But, I can assure you everyone on here is in agreement that the strength we have as commuters is our high maneuverability and (for some of us) speed. Know your strengths as a defensive driver and embrace them if things get difficult. An exit via the sidewalk in traffic from an aggressive driver is a far more noble and tactical retreat than trying to shout it out and having it lead to even worse.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:54 am

awesome story 8/10

Tristik · Post by **Tristik** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:18 am

I see so many terribly disrespectful drivers around here that I learned a long time ago to just shake my head in dismay and let it go. It's easy to do when you come to the realisation that you are better than they are.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:29 am

gilbee how big a person are you?

gilbee · Post by **gilbee** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:58 pm

JHScoot wrote:gilbee how big a person are you?

I'm 6' 160 lbs. not a huge guy, but sort of tall and... I guess average weight.
Why you ask?

ed85379 · Post by **ed85379** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:39 pm

gilbee wrote: she then finds her way around me and hits the breaks. of curse my reaction time is ok so i don't even come close to hitting her

Do people seriously not realize that brake-checking someone is effectively attempted murder? Or at the very least, attempted maiming? There is nothing more evil, more completely out of touch with reality that 'ordinary' people do on the road. She tried to *hurt* you.

rsrider · Post by **rsrider** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:50 pm

move over

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:01 pm

gilbee wrote:I'm really glad that I have something in common with such expietenced people.
I feel better knowing that I can look to you guys for advise. And I feel like you guys are right. I'd rather not Cary anything with me. I'd rather not put my self in those kinds of situations. Keeping my composure is something that i'm working on. And I definitely feel better knowing that I should keep a cool head and just move on.
I'll keep all this in mind tomorrow while I'm on the road, and from now on.

Seriously, thank you.

gilbee, that's already a very mature and enlightened response!
Don't get me wrong, I'm not exactly the picture of maturity if that means "acting your age". I listen to "young" music, ride a scooter and play video games but I'm an almost 48 year old father of 3 with a job in medical science.
Like I said, I have a short fuse and a quick temper (always been kind of a "knee-jerk" reaction guy) but I've learned a lot over the past few years on the scooter. Just use your friends or occasionally this site to vent a little and don't take it with you on the road.

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:35 pm

I agree with Tocsik. In Denver there are a few people I encounter every week that speed at 50 through school zones while texting to get around me, just because they're jerks.

Even other riders aren't always the best. During a rally this weekend, a rider on a modded ruckus kept weaving in and out, dangerously, in a large crowd. We were 2 up on the Buddy, and the brakes couldn't safely handle stopping. The 3rd time she came close, I had to give her a defensive 'kick'. To my knowledge she wasn't upset about it, and because she is the beholden to an acquaintance of mine I didn't mention it, but I'm positive it ruffled some feathers because I wasn't 'cool' about her dangerous riding.

The bottom line is that only you can control your environment, and barring that, how you react in situations.

There are many times I would like to have a side mounted flamethrower on my scoot for just such occasions, and then when I look back on those times, I just realize that I could get the heck out of dodge and let pinheads have their bad day, or feel superior, whatever.

Glad you're safe, just try to let the experience settle in objectively, where you'll learn the most from it.

iMoses · Post by **iMoses** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:26 pm

It's up to you to keep yourself safe.

When I first started riding I had a couple a drunk, yahoo's (or as I called them Kansan's) in a rusted, beat-up, old pickup tailgating and yelling at me, luckily I was able to quickly turn into a high school parking lot and get out of their way. I kept my cool, I knew I would of lost the battle against a lifted pickup with mud tires and a jackass behind the wheel.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:36 pm

skully93 wrote:The 3rd time she came close, I had to give her a defensive 'kick'. To my knowledge she wasn't upset about it, and because she is the beholden to an acquaintance of mine I didn't mention it, but I'm positive it ruffled some feathers because I wasn't 'cool' about her dangerous riding.

I dunno, she was driving dangerously in a group, threatening many other riders. She deserves being told as much. Not in a 'you are an ignorant twit' sort of way, but maybe something along the lines of 'I am sorry I kicked out at you in our ride, but you were riding carelessly'.

'You ignorant twit'

BuddyLicious · Post by **BuddyLicious** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:02 pm

We need to armor up our scoots!A brush guard a roll bar and something like a brush guard for the rear ought to be a good start.Calling all fabricators!

Armor up your scoot and then you can say to the crazy cagers,"Lets Dance"

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:09 pm

Syd wrote:
skully93 wrote: I dunno, she was driving dangerously in a group, threatening many other riders. She deserves being told as much. Not in a 'you are an ignorant twit' sort of way, but maybe something along the lines of 'I am sorry I kicked out at you in our ride, but you were riding carelessly'.

'You ignorant twit'
well, in this particularly small subsect, that's normal. It would have just caused a lot of chaos, and possibly a fistfight, because of the personalities involved. If I was confronted, I'd have explained that I had to act in self-defense or a large group could have wrecked. However she didn't seem too butt hurt about it, no damage was done (I made it more of a push, and she was on a very durable ruckus which has no panels anyway) and everyone made it safe.

Assuming I keep doing rides with the local rallies, it's unlikely I will see these people more than a couple times per year, and they have pedigree. Socially it's just nicer to pretend it didn't happen rather than argue with a group of kids that may or may not be violent about it. This particular individual, while very mechanically skilled, is a craptastic rider IMHO, and did not take any kind of riding course. Testosterone was the attitude, probably tempered with a good measure of drinking. Nothing rational would have been accomplished.

Those few who seemed to be offended kept to themselves, so meh.

scootavaran · Post by **scootavaran** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:14 pm

rsrider wrote:move over

+1
Scooter vs car: once the argument starts, you already lost.

If you feel you really need to do something just get a Go-Pro on your helmet and record crazy people like that then report them.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:22 pm

skully93 wrote:
Syd wrote: I dunno, she was driving dangerously in a group, threatening many other riders. She deserves being told as much. Not in a 'you are an ignorant twit' sort of way, but maybe something along the lines of 'I am sorry I kicked out at you in our ride, but you were riding carelessly'.

'You ignorant twit'
well, in this particularly small subsect, that's normal. It would have just caused a lot of chaos, and possibly a fistfight, because of the personalities involved. If I was confronted, I'd have explained that I had to act in self-defense or a large group could have wrecked. However she didn't seem too butt hurt about it, no damage was done (I made it more of a push, and she was on a very durable ruckus which has no panels anyway) and everyone made it safe.

Assuming I keep doing rides with the local rallies, it's unlikely I will see these people more than a couple times per year, and they have pedigree. Socially it's just nicer to pretend it didn't happen rather than argue with a group of kids that may or may not be violent about it. This particular individual, while very mechanically skilled, is a craptastic rider IMHO, and did not take any kind of riding course. Testosterone was the attitude, probably tempered with a good measure of drinking. Nothing rational would have been accomplished.

Those few who seemed to be offended kept to themselves, so meh.

Your call of course, and I'd probably just quietly not associate with them again, myself, but as for pedigree? Even a rabid poodle has pedigree.

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:29 pm

that's the plan. I actually value the group as people, but not as riders.

We have a great community here, and I refuse to just not do group rides because chances are at least some will be there. I'm hoping it resolves itself with just a little time.

persephonelily · Post by **persephonelily** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:19 pm

I've basically told myself that everyone on the road is out to kill or maim me, and the ones who are the most blatant about it are doing me a service by showing just how dangerous they are, so I can NOT be anywhere near them on the road.

A week after I started riding, a woman in a van screamed at me in traffic about learning how to drive and get out of her way, etc. I WAS learning. Having people shout at you isn't terribly conducive to that, but whatever. I'm riding because I like it and because it's how I CHOOSE to get around. If I'm too slow for them, they can pass me. It's not worth getting hurt over.

However, I do carry a wrench in my cubby to fix the mirrors when they get loose, and if anyone came at me (I'm 5 feet tall), they might find me to be less of an easy target than they hoped. I won't start sh*t, but I'll darned well finish it.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:26 pm

gilbee wrote:
JHScoot wrote:gilbee how big a person are you?
I'm 6' 160 lbs. not a huge guy, but sort of tall and... I guess average weight.
Why you ask?

just trying to figure if small(er) riders get more crap from people. at least "in my face" crap

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:31 pm

I think males do. Females tend to get a little more leeway.

case in point, 2 buddy riders, one orange, 1 pink, both 50cc.

twit in pickup to orange/male rider "Git ouda da way, Faggit!"

This was after telling his gf in pink she looked good.

Double standard!

JettaKnight · Post by **JettaKnight** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:33 pm

neotrotsky wrote: Do I conceal carry? Yes. BUT... I also have my career to think about, and that puts me in a position where I can't just get in someone's face or get aggressive.

Well, I open carry (A .45 doesn't fit under my jacket). And wouldn't ever even *think* about using a firearm to solve a problem like this. My career isn't a factor - is simply based on morality. Lethal self defense is only for situation where escape is not an option and the alternative is your own death.

ed85379 wrote: Do people seriously not realize that brake-checking someone is effectively attempted murder? Or at the very least, attempted maiming? There is nothing more evil, more completely out of touch with reality that 'ordinary' people do on the road. She tried to *hurt* you.

You say she brake checked you? Go figure... From now on EXPECT that. If a driver aggressive gets in front of you - then SLOW DOWN!

People like this are highly unpredictable and dangerous. Why play their game? The best response is no response - get out of the situation. Slow down, turn, speed up (my choice

) , whatever puts distance between you and the aggressor. For me this is rule if I'm on my Buddy or in my F150.

What did you hope to accomplish by retaliating? In a situation like this what's the best possible outcome? The aggressor pulls over apologizes and thanks you for pointing out their errors? Ain't gonna happen. Think about it before this happens again.

JettaKnight · Post by **JettaKnight** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:35 pm

skully93 wrote:I think males do. Females tend to get a little more leeway.

case in point, 2 buddy riders, one orange, 1 pink, both 50cc.

twit in pickup to orange/male rider "Git ouda da way, Faggit!"

This was after telling his gf in pink she looked good.

Double standard!

He was just trying to suppress his homosexual desires.

Stormswift · Post by **Stormswift** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:39 pm

I got yelled at only once by a local dude who likely was late for his golf game and was furious that a femále dared to ride in front of him slower than warp speed.. That was when I first started riding. Now I have couple of things in my favor. 1. I keepn up with the traffic. 2. I am a shortie so most people feel guilty picking on me. 3. I wear Power ranger style very pink helmet that "screams" ditsy female rider (aka UNPREDICTIBLE=safer to stay away from moi). Do they pass me no matter if I keep up with traffic? Sure. But this is same folks that would pass me if I was in the car because they cannot stand being behind someone regardless of the vehicle.

SYMbionic Duo · Post by **SYMbionic Duo** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:13 am

My philosophy can be summed up by the late great thinker George Carlin:
"Lead, Follow, or get out of the Way? F-You, I obstruct!"

In fact, i am willing to put myself and my bike in great danger for your entertainment... and for my own curiosity on how far someone will go.

That said, i am a professional, i do all of my own stunts, am an organ and tissue donor, and don't try this at home!

Also, always be aware and in control.

-duo

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:34 am

Sometimes speeding up only serves to aggravate the situation since a lot of aggressive drivers seem to have a canine tendency to give chase. Face it, vehicle-wise you're at an extreme disadvantage in an escalating conflict. I'm not sure of the actual quotation, but one of Sun Tzu's maxims is that a great warrior either fights on their own terms, or not at all.

Stormswift · Post by **Stormswift** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:35 am

skully93 wrote:I agree with Tocsik. In Denver there are a few people I encounter every week that speed at 50 through school zones while texting to get around me, just because they're jerks.

Even other riders aren't always the best. During a rally this weekend, a rider on a modded ruckus kept weaving in and out, dangerously, in a large crowd. We were 2 up on the Buddy, and the brakes couldn't safely handle stopping. The 3rd time she came close, I had to give her a defensive 'kick'. To my knowledge she wasn't upset about it, and because she is the beholden to an acquaintance of mine I didn't mention it, but I'm positive it ruffled some feathers because I wasn't 'cool' about her dangerous riding.

The bottom line is that only you can control your environment, and barring that, how you react in situations.

There are many times I would like to have a side mounted flamethrower on my scoot for just such occasions, and then when I look back on those times, I just realize that I could get the heck out of dodge and let pinheads have their bad day, or feel superior, whatever.

Glad you're safe, just try to let the experience settle in objectively, where you'll learn the most from it.

.
This is kind of what I am trying to dea with in our very loosely knitted group. There is a number of newbies who are not riding in a safe manner (as in they are all over the road". Two of the group members ended up in an accident
One got clippedby another on a turn while reportedly following g too close. It is not widely known within the gtoupnthat they went down. One of the group members, a Younger guy in his 20's got upset when I brought up needing to ride in chess formation. His responce is that non one wants to follow any rules because we are not a motorcycle club. During our last big ride he was on a 50cc scooter. All over the road (namely to prevent more powerful bikes from passing him when he could not keep up in a very hilly area. I don't know what his safety training was. I see zero safety awareness.We have a rally comming up next weekend. I think if I go I will ride alone. It will be safer this way...

redhandmoto · Post by **redhandmoto** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:52 am

"One cranky woman with a big mouth - brake-check notwithstanding - does not a feral pack of Gypsy Jokers make."

Or so was my thought on reading the first post, as in: ignore the nut job, go on your way, and don't play. "F*ck your car up," is an escalation, not a defense. There's a difference between a "defense" and "hitting back."

Want to fix that woman's attitude? Get an advanced degree, become a Clinical Psychologist, and offer her free therapy.

Want to serve her with Justice? Get an Administration of Justice degree, go through the police academy, become a commisioned officer, do a traffic stop, and write her a ticket.

Nothing you say, yell, gesture wildly, kick, or carry with you will prevent people who become mildly psychotic when in their automoibiles from acting-out.

Want only to defend? At the first sign of road rage, slow or turn off and and let the rager go their way. You ain't gonna fix or change them...sooooo...evade and avoid them

Umm, Stormswift, can we please chose another, non-loaded term for persons who behave in 'entitled' ways?

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:54 am

Well, in Phoenix there are PLENTY who will use lethal force to solve the most petty if disputes. So, I simply regard any traffic incident where someone willingly escalates things as a potentially lethal situation. The quality of people here in Redneckistan is quite low. And, much of the parts of Phoenix where many shows happen aren't the safest at all. So, aversion is one of the best policies but the alternative is always something I keep in mind.

This is one of many reasons we are planning on moving out of this hole of a "city" asap

Stormswift · Post by **Stormswift** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:25 am

If someone is in a hurry I'm d let them pass. I'd be upset and likely mutter couple of choice words under my breath. Getting g into confrontation is not worth it it thoughn because you Just do not know who stopped taking their antipsychotic med, who just got fired. Cannot deal with that and ready to go postal or who did not get their rabies shot. When someone behaves in a crazy way chances are somethibg is not right with them and you do not want to be in their path. I got agressed at verbaly and I doubt it had anything to do with my riding being too slow. We all had slow drivers or riders in front of us before. The dude was in a foul mood for whatever reason. He displaced the anger he felt towards someone in his life because it was not safe to express that anger towards his real target (probably a female) and took it out on total stranger. Yelling obscenity from a car window and driving away is a perfect way to agress and get away with it (in his mind). I did take a good look at him and we are pretty small community where everyone knows everyone and you end up running into everyone eventully. I often wonder what I would do if I recognize him at some social function. Approach and say: "hi. I am the ******* rider, nice to meet you?

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:06 am

in extreme cases I have taken flight up onto a sidewalk, or into a narrow set of traffic that the aggressor can't follow into (aka, the Mouse defense!).

99.9% of the time, I don't think it's intentional, just ignorant. at least that's what I tell myself to keep my brain leaking out of my nose and stroking out.

spr0k3t · Post by **spr0k3t** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:09 am

Get their license plate, turn it in for road rage. They will then be flagged the next time they are pulled over and almost automatically ticketed. Vengeance delivered. When I run into asshats like those, I tend to slow down and let them suffer. They don't own the road, but then, neither do you.

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:31 am

spr0k3t wrote:Get their license plate, turn it in for road rage. They will then be flagged the next time they are pulled over and almost automatically ticketed. Vengeance delivered. When I run into asshats like those, I tend to slow down and let them suffer. They don't own the road, but then, neither do you.

Wow. You must live in one of the few cities left that give a crap. Try that in Phoenix and the police pretty much insist that you stop wasting their time. You are on your own here.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:11 am

neotrotsky wrote:
spr0k3t wrote:Get their license plate, turn it in for road rage. They will then be flagged the next time they are pulled over and almost automatically ticketed. Vengeance delivered. When I run into asshats like those, I tend to slow down and let them suffer. They don't own the road, but then, neither do you.
Wow. You must live in one of the few cities left that give a crap. Try that in Phoenix and the police pretty much insist that you stop wasting their time. You are on your own here.

One person's experience. Not everyone's

gilbee · Post by **gilbee** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:10 pm

redhandmoto wrote:"One cranky woman with a big mouth - brake-check notwithstanding - does not a feral pack of Gypsy Jokers make."

Or so was my thought on reading the first post, as in: ignore the nut job, go on your way, and don't play. "F*ck your car up," is an escalation, not a defense. There's a difference between a "defense" and "hitting back."

Now that I look back, I should have just ignored her and moved over. But because she almost hit my rear fender, I had a ton of adrenaline and my temperature was at a boiling point. And that doesn't justify my behavior, but I can say I was a bit freaked out, and anger and intel ideation is my reaction to that... (Also known as road rage).
I wish I had handled it differently, but I guess it's something that I can reflect on and learn from.
I think I will keep a nice size wrench in my glove box from now on though... To ensure my mirrors don't rattle loses

TroutBum · Post by **TroutBum** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:38 pm

gilbee wrote: I think I will keep a nice size wrench in my glove box from now on though... To ensure my mirrors don't rattle loses

Here's one I found for you.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9 ... ftioUJYvn_

redhandmoto · Post by **redhandmoto** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:25 pm

gilbee wrote:
redhandmoto wrote:"One cranky woman with a big mouth - brake-check notwithstanding - does not a feral pack of Gypsy Jokers make."

Or so was my thought on reading the first post, as in: ignore the nut job, go on your way, and don't play. "F*ck your car up," is an escalation, not a defense. There's a difference between a "defense" and "hitting back."
Now that I look back, I should have just ignored her and moved over. But because she almost hit my rear fender, I had a ton of adrenaline and my temperature was at a boiling point. And that doesn't justify my behavior, but I can say I was a bit freaked out, and anger and intel ideation is my reaction to that... (Also known as road rage).
I wish I had handled it differently, but I guess it's something that I can reflect on and learn from.
I think I will keep a nice size wrench in my glove box from now on though... To ensure my mirrors don't rattle loses

Well, ya know, I've blown kisses, rolled up to open windows and asked people if their family/husband/wife/kids know that they behave like that in public.

On balance, I shouldn't have. Engaging at all with someone who's already crossed the demento line is iffy.

You know, tomorrow, you'll still be you, with your job and family and life and all, with no arrest record for aggravated assault, disorderly conduct...and they'll still be a shaky head case on a long and inevitable curve toward ending up in serious trouble that will only fill-out the rest of their unhappy, hostile, and miserable life.

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:19 pm

Ironically that sort of behavior is why I rarely get behind the wheel of a cage. Because I am that irrational, foam at the mouth asshole. Not originally, oh no. I start out perfectly sane and good, using all my spare time to teach blind kittens to read.

Then, 1 jerk cuts me off, no one uses a turn signal, another lady flips me off when she nearly comes into my lane while texting/makeup/watching a dvd/ AND eating a cheeseburger; all while her kids run around in the back seat. After that a bum takes his time crossing against the light and 9 bros stand in the crosswalk singing Jingle Bells.

After that, if I don't like the color of your car, I'm going to follow you home and burn your house down.

This is why I drive a scooter 99% of the time, where my enraged moments are wrapped in bliss.

anthony · Post by **anthony** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:34 pm

skully93 wrote:Ironically that sort of behavior is why I rarely get behind the wheel of a cage. Because I am that irrational, foam at the mouth asshole. Not originally, oh no. I start out perfectly sane and good, using all my spare time to teach blind kittens to read.

Then, 1 jerk cuts me off, no one uses a turn signal, another lady flips me off when she nearly comes into my lane while texting/makeup/watching a dvd/ AND eating a cheeseburger; all while her kids run around in the back seat. After that a bum takes his time crossing against the light and 9 bros stand in the crosswalk singing Jingle Bells.

After that, if I don't like the color of your car, I'm going to follow you home and burn your house down.

This is why I drive a scooter 99% of the time, where my enraged moments are wrapped in bliss.

haha this cartoon illustrates pretty much exactly what you're saying, and is just awesome in general:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk-c5jlk48s

persephonelily · Post by **persephonelily** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:36 pm

Turn signal?! You actually get them? I am constantly getting cut off by people leisurely drifting into my lane. The only indication that they are moving is the tires crossing the middle line.

I really do only carry a wrench for my mirrors, I swear!

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:44 pm

skully93 wrote:Ironically that sort of behavior is why I rarely get behind the wheel of a cage. Because I am that irrational, foam at the mouth asshole. Not originally, oh no. I start out perfectly sane and good, using all my spare time to teach blind kittens to read.....

I am convinced that driving a car takes 10 points of your IQ for the time you're behind the wheel. I believe this because it's the only thing that preserves my feelings of goodwill toward humanity.

persephonelily · Post by **persephonelily** » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:43 am

It's funny you say that; when I worked in retail, I was convinced that there was a chemical reaction in the brain any time someone heard the bell over the door chime, causing them to lose about 20 points off their IQ and become short-tempered. So, in essence, every time a customer walked into the store, they were immediately dumber and angrier. I have yet to be proven wrong. Perhaps I can get a grant to test it?

rickyh · Post by **rickyh** » Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:48 pm

I have had people throw things at me (a beer bottle or can). Occasionally i have some fool yellyell at me. I carry a cz52 that I haven't had to use yet. Mostly i just ignore it though. People are too unpredictable to take chances with.

BootScootin'FireFighter · Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:06 am

ed85379 wrote:
gilbee wrote: she then finds her way around me and hits the breaks. of curse my reaction time is ok so i don't even come close to hitting her
Do people seriously not realize that brake-checking someone is effectively attempted murder? Or at the very least, attempted maiming? There is nothing more evil, more completely out of touch with reality that 'ordinary' people do on the road. She tried to *hurt* you.

Not in Virginia. I had a road rager try to run me off the road when I was pretty new at this, but instead brake checked me. I had to dump the bike. As I pursued his stopped car on foot, he sped off to avoid the ass kicking I was prepared to dispatch. I got his plate, but the cops here said they can't charge him with anything since there was "no contact".

As hard as it is, it's best to just let them go. Sucks, I know, but sometimes I get all worked up and I'm raging mad before I realize what happened. That can cause me to make irrational decisions and puts me at incredible risk. Drunk with rage. And not only do they always seem to get away, I'm not ready to get arrested because I feel like I was wronged. When the cops show up, it's your word verse the other driver. No proof of anything, and all they'll see is an enraged scooter geek. Guess who the cops will side with most of the time? The driver. Especially if it's a woman. So unless they hit you or throw something at you, it's not worth it.

Dracolibris · Post by **Dracolibris** » Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:04 am

skully93 wrote:We were 2 up on the Buddy, and the brakes couldn't safely handle stopping. The 3rd time she came close, I had to give her a defensive 'kick'.

So let me get this right- you were riding in a very large group, with people you didn't know well, "2 up and the brakes couldn't safely handle stopping" and then you actually freaking KICKED another rider's scooter in a group ride, and you are saying SHE is the one who was being unsafe?

I guess I am confused. Shouldn't you be able to brake safely before going on any ride? And if you knew you couldn't do that, why would you kick someone's scoot, potentially causing a serious chain reaction in a huge group???

Sounds to me like you might have earned your "Douchebag Award" right there.

Hwarang · Post by **Hwarang** » Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:38 pm

There are some good replies here that advocate chillax riding in addition to defensive driving and good situational awareness.

The other thing I like to advocate is a sort of pay it forward mentality. It's not likely that the other driver in the OP's story realized anything about her own driving. In fact, it's very likely that she still feels like the scooterist was a douche. She probably went home and complained about it. She will probably make a little frowny face the next time she sees a scooter on the road. She might be less apt to give them a little more space. She might even be MORE aggressive with the next scooter.

I understand being mad and having some adrenaline surging because of a close call. But escalating things like the OP did is actually dangerous for other people too. I might share the road with that same driver, who now has a bias against me.

Hwarang · Post by **Hwarang** » Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:39 pm

Dracolibris wrote:
skully93 wrote:We were 2 up on the Buddy, and the brakes couldn't safely handle stopping. The 3rd time she came close, I had to give her a defensive 'kick'.
So let me get this right- you were riding in a very large group, with people you didn't know well, "2 up and the brakes couldn't safely handle stopping" and then you actually freaking KICKED another rider's scooter in a group ride, and you are saying SHE is the one who was being unsafe?

I guess I am confused. Shouldn't you be able to brake safely before going on any ride? And if you knew you couldn't do that, why would you kick someone's scoot, potentially causing a serious chain reaction in a huge group???

Sounds to me like you might have earned your "Douchebag Award" right there.

Careful, the hive mind disapproves.

Modern Buddy

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