Two Wheel World Things I Don't Get

[ericalm]

Inspired by another thread. Feel free to add your own.

(No offense to anyone who does one of these things, has one of these things, likes them, whatever. Just things that I don't get.)

1. Trike conversions (motorcycles or scooters)
2. People who buy 250cc or larger scooters so they can ride them around at 35mph
3. People who buy 250cc or larger scooters but never ride on the freeway
4. The "I know it's a piece of junk but I really want a scooter so am dropping $1200 on it anyways" logic for buying some generic Chinese scoots
5. Cruisers (in general)
6. This (specifically)
7. Why Kymco currently offers 16 models in the US, five of them 50s.
8. People who don't consider a 40-year-old scooter "vintage," or who give enough of a crap to argue about it.
9. People who think the term "Scooter Dork" is demeaning.

…I'm sure there will be more…

[JHScoot]

should have numbered them so we could just do this:

i agree with 5 & 6 and especially 6

[JHScoot]

riders who say 150cc isn't powerful enough to ride in a big city, urban environment

and they call themselves riders!!

[JHScoot]

trendy bikes like the Cafe things. i mean they are cool but in the past 5 years they seem everywhere!

if i see another old ass triumph in silverlake i might have to avoid that stretch of town from now on

[amy]

trendy bikes like the Cafe things. i mean they are cool but in the past 5 years they seem everywhere!

if i see another old ass triumph in silverlake i might have to avoid that stretch of town from now on

What are the Cafe things?

[michelle_7728]

I don't get people who you have never met, who think it's okay to ask you "when you are going to get a 'real' bike?

I mean, really? Wouldn't they think that just a tiny bit rude if the roles were reversed?

It's okay to walk up and insult a total stranger, just because you don't get scooters...?

[JHScoot]

trendy bikes like the Cafe things. i mean they are cool but in the past 5 years they seem everywhere!

if i see another old ass triumph in silverlake i might have to avoid that stretch of town from now on

What are the Cafe things?

sry. cafe racers. this one is particularly garish for some reason

[/img]

[Tocsik]

This (specifically)

Why Kymco currently offers 16 models in the US, five of them 50s.

That thing better watch out for icebergs!

[Howardr]

I sometimes ride with vintage riders and occasionally attend their rallies, but I still don't understand their animosity toward those who ride twist and go's.

[jaeger45]

Riders who play "dress up" thinking that they are now somehow a member of an outlaw biker gang.

[Southerner]

This sounds fun. You've already made me laugh.

Cafe racers I consider pretty legit until it becomes a "thing" rather than a passion. Before the turnkey sportbikes that made them completely unnecessary, cafe's were about as sporty as you could get. My first streetbike was a Suzuki GS450S which was pretty well equipped for the price.

The idea that you can take an old bike that somebody else consigned to the barn and turn it into something fun for minimal outlay is appealing. Snobbery most definitely is not.. Sadly, my aging back is against the idea.

Trike conversions I guess are mostly for older people who no longer trust their balance. I expect they're easier to handle than a sidecar rig.

For most, cruisers are a "thing". This, too, shall pass. They do offer comfortable riding positions if you don't have one that puts your feet forward of the engine.

The Vision is American wretched excess on two wheels. The Ness version is even worse. I believe one MC mag writer described as "acres of plastic" but I shouldn't throw stones.....

I don't think bargain buyers put much credence in that "if something's too good to be true....." drivel.

I have read about, but never been exposed to, snobbery among the scooter cognoscenti. I live too far out in the sticks. Sounds similar to the vintage car scene.

[Southerner]

Riders who play "dress up" thinking that they are now somehow a member of an outlaw biker gang.

Now THESE we have in droves! Some even wear colors and there are inter-faux-gang rivalries. There are also those buy absolutely everything that has the words "Harley-Davidson" printed on it. This is, of course, the only MC fit to own and they look down on all Japanese cruisers, the owners of which will defend their mounts but secretly look forward to the day they can afford a "real" HD.

There's a guy where I work who owns one of the big FL models. He has one of those probably non-DOT turtleshell helmets and without fail ostentatiously ignores me and my non-cruiser Honda when we leave the parking lot at the end of the day.

[ericalm]

should have numbered them so we could just do this:

i agree with 5 & 6 and especially 6

DONE.

Café Racers I get and I don't really care if they're currently trendy, aside from prices on Honda CBs doubling (or more) over the past couple of years. It's not just the style, it's also the ride. And the style.

Most of those East side Triumphs are no older than 5 years. Probably less. LA is lousy with them. Great—lots of used ones in a couple years!

I don't like the aesthetics of most sportbikes, but I get why someone would ride one and have fun riding it. Cruisers are big, heavy, loud and handle poorly. Many are quite expensive. Most have relatively low power and speed for their displacement. Maybe it's an entirely cultural thing…

[vwgrl1999]

I don't get people who you have never met, who think it's okay to ask you "when you are going to get a 'real' bike?

I mean, really? Wouldn't they think that just a tiny bit rude if the roles were reversed?

It's okay to walk up and insult a total stranger, just because you don't get scooters...?

Arrrgghhh! This JUST happened to me (yet again!) a few days ago. Some boozed up weekend warrior, first thing out of his mouth "So, when are you gonna buy a real bike?" I said "I"m going to assume that you mean when am I planning on buying a Harley. The answer is never. Harley's are like a$$holes, everyone's got one. And what constitutes a 'real bike'? Other than it must be a Harley? Two wheels and a motor? I've got that. Oh, and I've also got over 100mpg at 60mph."

I can't wait for this trend to end...you know, the one where everyone needs to own a bike. The people buying into it are just keeping up w/the Joneses, they don't really care about the real culture of it. Personally, I'm glad most of them don't 'get' scooters cuz if they did, they'd all run out and buy them, drape themselves in branded clothing, put mod stickers on their jackets, and just generally bring down the feeling of being part of a truly elite group of two-wheelers.

[Syd]

6. Holy sh!7. I've seen some odd looking Victories, but, and I have never said this before in my life, Oh. My. God. That is hideous.

[Jackie F]

Someone who worked at the same organization did #1 with a Rebel. I believe she thought it was safer, but I saw her limping one day and never saw the bike again.

I have had a 250cc for 3 years but been on the interstate for 4 miles. It gets boring and we have crazy bottlenecking here.

For #8, are you talking about the Bajaj Chetak?

For #9, Dork is a family name.

[spr0k3t]

The more mirrors than you can stick a shake at trend. Never made sense to me. Also, any boso-zoku mod on two wheels... it's dangerous as hell.

[Tristik]

~~
I would have to disagree with these two though:

People who buy 250cc or larger scooters so they can ride them around at 35mph
People who buy 250cc or larger scooters but never ride on the freeway

My mom has a Honda Reflex Sport (250cc) and she often goes for drives where the speed limit is sub-45. She will not take it on the freeway and avoids 55mph roads when possible.

There aren't many bikes under 250cc that has that kind of aesthetic. She's like me: She doesn't want a scooter that looks like a traditional scooter. Plus, there's the price factor. She got hers for about $2,400 2 years ago (2004 model).

I'd have to be in agreement with guys who play dress-up though. Those weekend warriors crack me up.
~~

[pattio]

Every scooter event that is not an actual vintage rally is now apparently 'Mods vs Rockers'. Yes, of course every two wheeled thing that's not a Harley or a sportbike must therefore be related to a movie about English people from 1979. Oh, you know what's clever? Riding my Harley or my new Ducati or my sticker-covered china-scoot to the Mods Vs Rockers event, that oughtta mess with their heads. Oh yeah, you know what else is real clever? I'm not a Mod or a Rocker, so I'm a Mocker! Get it? A Mocker! Wow I'm clever.

Remember the scene in Quadrophenia where an overweight and heavily tattooed rockabilly band played for a parking lot full of web developers while they shopped for pink corazzos and ate tacos from a truck? Me neither.

[Southerner]

should have numbered them so we could just do this:

i agree with 5 & 6 and especially 6

DONE.

Café Racers I get and I don't really care if they're currently trendy, aside from prices on Honda CBs doubling (or more) over the past couple of years. It's not just the style, it's also the ride. And the style.

Most of those East side Triumphs are no older than 5 years. Probably less. LA is lousy with them. Great—lots of used ones in a couple years!

I don't like the aesthetics of most sportbikes, but I get why someone would ride one and have fun riding it. Cruisers are big, heavy, loud and handle poorly. Many are quite expensive. Most have relatively low power and speed for their displacement. Maybe it's an entirely cultural thing…

One definite positive I have seen, although only in the magazine, is the re-purposing of some of those hideous early cruiser bikes - you know, the ones the Japanese cobbled together from their standards, into cafe bikes. I have seen particularly good-looking efforts made from CX500 Customs and Viragos. I think if somebody is having a new Bonny hacked-upon, they must have pretty deep pockets. But whatever floats their boat.

I think the sportbike guys for the most part consider themselves "serious" cyclists, except maybe for some of the strange stuff done with Hayabusas.
I don't think the cruiser set really puts much effort into learning how to ride well and so are probably better off with a bike that discourages quick turns, etc. As to the power/displacement/weight thing, again, it's all about appearances. Having an engine with a huge number for others to look at is more important than how it actually functions. The weight? Nobody told the manufacturers NOT to make them heavy. A sportbiker wouldn't tolerate it. Never occurs to the leather set to object. Or maybe it's more manly to have a heavy bike. IDK.

It's sad that parochialism exists not only within the 2-wheeled community as a whole, but also within each subset. I guess it's better to be amused than dismayed. It's not going to change.

[TVB]

riders who say 150cc isn't powerful enough to ride in a big city, urban environment

Riders who say 50cc isn't powerful enough to ride in a big city, urban environment.

Riders who say 50cc isn't powerful enough to go anywhere outside an urban environment.

And more generally: scooterists who take offense at the way motorcyclists look down on them and their bikes, but turn around and do the same with smaller scooters or mopeds.

[mattgordon]

I dont get people beginning their PTW riding career obsessed with the "when" ...waiting for their "turn" for a mishap, rather than the "if*"....and then let nature take its course.

This seems to happen quite frequently in the scooter world vs motorcycles since todays twist-n-go scooters are inherently easier to operate, but the same dynamics and subtleties of riding apply, yet are often overlooked or considered inapplicable to scooters.

I guess I dont understand that common misconception that being able to operate the vehicle....(make it go, make it stop, and point it where they want) is the same as being able to "ride". They aren't one in the same.


"*IF" I receive some rider training, get the proper licensing, and maybe even wear some PPE, I can more likely avoid or at least minimize my chances of a mishap.

[JohnKiniston]

I don't get those crazy backwards trikes, It's a car missing a wheel not a bike with an extra one.

Northern Soul. *shudder*

[avonpirate]

My 125cc is frequently referred to as my 'hawg' by the members of the elite golf club where I'm concierge in the summer months. Many members have HAWGS, in fact we have a 5 day golf tournament where they ride their 'Hawgs' to 5 different golf courses, play, stay overnight and party, all inthe name of charity. That being said I haven't experienced disparaging remarks, and have even been invited to go with the group to Sturgis. IMHO, if your going to dis another machine ... you obviously don't have enuf money and feel insecure.

[charlie55]

Folks who lost or never bothered to get a title (where required) for the bike they're trying to sell. Typically, they add insult to injury by claiming that the buyer should have no problem getting a replacement. The obvious question being, "Well, if it's so easy and inexpensive, why didn't you?".

Folks who don't understand that time as well as use causes things to wear and lose value. Typically, they'll try to get damned near the original MSRP on a scoot just because it's only accumulated 1000 miles in 10 years.

[phatch]

sry. cafe racers. this one is particularly garish for some reason

[/img]

I actually really like those... My pops used to ride a CB360T.


Now these I don't understand... bobbers:

[az_slynch]

I sometimes ride with vintage riders and occasionally attend their rallies, but I still don't understand their animosity toward those who ride twist and go's.

As you know, I'm weird. In my mind, if the state allows you to get a vintage tag for the bike, it's vintage. The local vintage riders don't get the SIRs because we go out and *ride*, where they're rather buzz from scene to scene in a pack...more like the mods they strive to emulate than they'd admit to. The scooter is more of an accessory than a viable mode of transportation.

Anyway, as long as one of my bikes is in good sort, I'm always down to ride with whoever wants to go.

[JHScoot]

sry. cafe racers. this one is particularly garish for some reason

[/img]

I actually really like those... My pops used to ride a CB360T.

sure i like 'em fine. in fact a lot. maybe its a good thing they have come on strong this way? i must admit i like the basic look of it all

i don't know much about bikes but i know i like modern cars all my life and have a healthy disregard for purist / original pretensions when it comes to old autos. it seems to be going the same way with bikes. however i need much more experience with mc's to truly discern. but based on styling and "vintage" or whatever it is alone?

if you tell me a Yamaha V-Strom is a considerably more capable and reliable day to day ride i would choose it over a cafe racer in a hot second. tell me its reverse and i suppose i would do the same with a racer. i just don't see how it could be?

but maybe i am thinking beyond this bike and its purpose? these are good around town bikes that can handle the highway and maybe some track time, right? and thats great. but....well....hey, maybe i do like these!!


tell me guys are they easy to ride, how much, any "reliable" ones, and what can they do??? "any "new" ones on the market not chinese?

i may have been turned

[JHScoot]

around $7500 for this 900cc bike (Bonnevlle). is this a good all around bike? that seems a good deal imo

[Southerner]

Oh. heck yes. A Bonnie is a good bike indeed.

JH, V-Strom is actually a Suzuki. Or did I miss a joke?

That bobber in the photo is actually kinda cute. And I don't just mean the girl. It's got a Honda-type single cylinder. The apes would have to go. I can't abide those.

As I understand it' the original bobbers were just old bikes cut down to lighten them up. Things didn't get silly until later.

[az_slynch]

I don't get those crazy backwards trikes, It's a car missing a wheel not a bike with an extra one.

Northern Soul. *shudder*

CanAm. Looks like a snowmobile with tires. Save your money and get a Miata. Or step up the skillset and get an MP3.

Music is a matter of taste. It's mod. I get ska, I grew up outside Boston. Northern Soul isn't all that far off of Motown. I may not choose it, but I can respect it.

Liquor cycles, aka motorized bikes. Seriously, just get a moped. Those things are rickety as all get out and not designed for the speeds they're pushed to.

[phatch]

Liquor cycles, aka motorized bikes. Seriously, just get a moped. Those things are rickety as all get out and not designed for the speeds they're pushed to.

Dude... I passed by a guy the other day on one. This short conversation ensued:

Me: How fast does that thing go?
Guy on Liquorcycle: 40.

Good luck with that...

[TVB]

Liquor cycles, aka motorized bikes. Seriously, just get a moped. Those things are rickety as all get out and not designed for the speeds they're pushed to.

Dude... I passed by a guy the other day on one. This short conversation ensued:

Me: How fast does that thing go?
Guy on Liquorcycle: 40.

Good luck with that...

I'll bet you a dollar his speedo is in km/h (i.e. 25 mph).

[Southerner]

.......................
CanAm. Looks like a snowmobile with tires. Save your money and get a Miata. Or step up the skillset and get an MP3..............................

................................................................

Liquor cycles, aka motorized bikes. Seriously, just get a moped. Those things are rickety as all get out and not designed for the speeds they're pushed to.

Re the Can-Am, my thoughts exactly. The Mazda costs no more, gets much better mileage (a friend says his gets 40, the CanAm gets mid 20s),The maintenance and tires are cheaper and any car mech can work on it.

Never heard the term "liquor cycle". I assume it means a cheap, flashy mini-bike sort of thing but can you tell me what the liquor connection is?

[PeteH]

Never heard the term "liquor cycle". I assume it means a cheap, flashy mini-bike sort of thing but can you tell me what the liquor connection is?

One that DWI/DUI convicts think they can ride legally after they've lost their license. Usually applied to 49s or mopeds[/quote]

[Rob]

People who purchase 2 wheel rides then primarily let them collect dust in the garage.

Rob

[TVB]

Never heard the term "liquor cycle". I assume it means a cheap, flashy mini-bike sort of thing but can you tell me what the liquor connection is?

One that DWI/DUI convicts think they can ride legally after they've lost their license. Usually applied to 49s or mopeds

And often incorrectly: many (most?) states require a valid automobile-driver license (or a special permit for under-16s) to operate a "moped".

"DUIcycle" is another nickname.

[neotrotsky]

Oh, I'm definitely a fan of the cafe bike!! Almost bought a CB350 instead of the Agility for a great price, but had to restrain myself because I knew we needed reliable, boring and warrantied before cool and fun. But, it's on the list...

As for crusiers, I can get it a *little*: They are smooth, pretty and oh-so-masculine machines that compensate for so much for some, but also do look good. I've caught myself eyeballing a few V-star 650's because they look great with full dress or without the rear fender and with some drag bars. No, they aren't as fast as other bikes with the same displacement. Yes, they handle horribly... but some do look VERY pretty!

I like unusual, so I can't bag on trikes too much. But, on the other hand I do make fun of people who get them because they think it's easier than riding a bike the way it was designed. What's even worse are those TRAINING WHEELS that I have seriously seen on some Harley Davidsons. It's like a "trike" conversion but they keep the original rear main wheel. It's pathetic, silly looking and sad.

[ravenlore]

~~
I would have to disagree with these two though:

People who buy 250cc or larger scooters so they can ride them around at 35mph
People who buy 250cc or larger scooters but never ride on the freeway

...

I'm going to disagree here as well. At this point I don't foresee myself riding on actual freeways. Roads and highways with speed limits of 55-60mph? Absolutely! Just yesterday, as a matter of fact. Actual freeways? Not so much.

[Tristik]

People who purchase 2 wheel rides then primarily let them collect dust in the garage.

Rob

~~
Right? There's an absolutely beautiful, brand new looking 2002 Reflex at my local dealer with 1,252 miles on it. It's there on a consignment. What the hell did they do with the bike the last 10 years? I nearly applied for a 2nd loan so I could buy the dang thing. Great deal at $2,200.
~~

[BuddyRaton]

People that don't know a Vespa from a Lambretta but are ready to tell me all about what's wrong with the vintage scene

Anyone that pulls an original GS or SS motor and puts in a P200 or LML motor

Self appointed safety police

People that slam custom or modded bikes that have never turned a wrench

Scooter riders that slam Harley riders

[Southerner]

............................................................................................. What's even worse are those TRAINING WHEELS that I have seriously seen on some Harley Davidsons. It's like a "trike" conversion but they keep the original rear main wheel. It's pathetic, silly looking and sad.

If that's the one I'm thinking of, I believe the feature they tout is the ability to "trike" it when they want and remove them when they'd rather be on 2 wheels.

I think the most exotic accessory I've seen are the "landing gear" that can be added to Goldwings. They're back with the rear wheel and deploy when your speed gets slow enough to stop and retract when you accelerate. Really, when I think about it, dropping one of those big bikes makes the touring Can-Am a more sensible option. Well, except maybe the Miata.

[skully93]

~~
I would have to disagree with these two though:

People who buy 250cc or larger scooters so they can ride them around at 35mph
People who buy 250cc or larger scooters but never ride on the freeway

...

I'm going to disagree here as well. At this point I don't foresee myself riding on actual freeways. Roads and highways with speed limits of 55-60mph? Absolutely! Just yesterday, as a matter of fact. Actual freeways? Not so much.

Yeah, my 250 really runs out of power @ the spot that everyone likes to drive on freeways, and people are absolutely scary. There have still been early mornings though where I knew there was no traffic, so away I went!

[illnoise]

I like the idea of cafe racers, but I hate the fact that every cool honda from the 70s is getting chopped up and having pre-fab kit parts glued to it to try to look more like a 50s british motorcycle. My wife has a nice CB350 that she ride once every three years and we'd sell it in a heartbeat, but I couldn't deal with the fact that some jag would 'cafe it.'

Here's something to scare the crap out of you: We all want the bikes that our dads or cool uncles, or people in movies were riding when we were little kids. Guess what, kids coming out of college now were born in the mid-90s. We all like muscle cars and vintage italian scooters, but those'll be like Cushmans and Model Ts to these kids. Within a couple years, the hot thing will be 80s/90s sportbikes. Hipsters will be riding "vintage" 1992 CBR1000s.

Also, there are definitely vintage snobs, and I'm not defending them, but there is a place for vintage-only rallies. I'm glad EVERY rally's not like that, but it's fun sometimes. If you went to a vintage Beetle show in a brand new Beetle, or a vintage muscle-car show in a new Challenger, it'd be the same situation. It's a lot of old friends who put years of work into their machines and they don't hate you or anything, they just like talking to their old friends and looking at old vehicles. If you don't show up with a chip on your shoulder and/or trying too hard to fit in, you'll be OK. just be yourself, offer to lend a hand, and enjoy yourself and you'll find some friends.

I mean, the question is, why would you want to go to a vintage-only rally if you weren't interested in vintage bikes? They're not doing it as a personal affront to you, they're doing it to celebrate the vehicles they're most interested in. I was into vintage long before modern and I used to think it was kinda rude, too, but the older I've got and more I've thought about it, it's just not worth worrying about, there are dozens of huge rallies all over the US now, and they're all a little different, which is great.

[illnoise]

Also, as far as trikes…

The MP3 is (was!) allegedly more 'stable' than a regular scooter. I'll buy that, but I think it was sold under the premise that it's somehow easier to ride than a regular bike. I don't buy that at all, it will fall over no problem, ha, and when it does, it's a lot heavier to pick up. And whatever benefits the stability gives it don't seem worth the premium price and the ridiculous expense of a front-end-collision repair, ha.

The Can-Ams, well, I think they're pretty lame. They're a three wheeled car. (is that their selling point? Can you ride 'em w/o an MC license?) I don't like the styling or the idea, but I don't like Harleys or sportbikes, either, so whatever. I'm not gonna try to get 'em outlawed or anything, ha.

The big home-made Harley trikes, not my thing at all, but they are probably cooler than a Harley just because someone put some effort into it.

The conversion kits… They seem TOTALLY dumb unless it's someone with a disability that loves riding and that's the only way it's gonna happen. In that case, it's nice they're available. I'd bet most people with trike conversions have them for that reason.

[illnoise]

And I'm assuming by #8 you're talking about P-series hate, ha.

I just don't like Ps. even vintage ones. I mean I don't hate 'em or anything, but I think that was where the basic Vespa design that I love went off the rails, they crossed a threshold where they just got too boxy and electrically complicated to have the same allure that an older Vespa has.

If I want vintage, I'd buy pre-P (and I did). If I want more reliability than a old scooter can give me, I'd buy the most modern scooter I could find (I got a Blur). I always see the P (and Stella) as a compromise of vintage style and simplicity and modern reliability and convenience, for most people that's a selling point, but for me it's the worst of both worlds, ha.

But that's just my dumb opinion, and they're great bikes for most people that aren't as snobby about design as me, ha. I don't judge other people or think less of them because they ride Ps or Stellas, they just don't make my knees weak like a 60s Vespa does.

[illnoise]

I'll add my own

1) why every scooter rally needs ska and soul music, or 'mod' music, which isn't even a style of music. I love soul and ska, a lot, and luckily, in the last decade, DJs have gotten a lot better about not playing the same ten most obvious tracks. But it still gets old.

2) why modern scooterists make fun of vintage scooterists for all dressing the same (Fred Perry/Ben Sherman/parkas, flights, etc) but all modern scooterists dress the same, too (Corazzo 5.0s and flip flops). I think you're ALL silly. And I dress like both of you.

3) FLIP FLOPS WHAT THE F--K PEOPLE?

4) Half and 3/4 helmets, to me, seem like wearing half or 3/4 of a condom. (again, personal opinion, don't wanna start a flame war, but it just seems like if you're gonna go through the trouble of carrying a helmet around, why not go all the way, ha)

5) Even as the person who first predicted the custom Ruckus craze when I first saw them, I knew I would never understand that stuff, ha. And I don't. But more power to 'em, they do some amazing stuff that always stupefies me, ha.

6) Pretty much every custom vintage scooter in Scootering Magazine, especially the gold-plated engraved and mural-led tributes to random things, and the german/austrian 'sports' bikes where someone spent $10,000 trying to make a PX125 into a MotoGP bike.

7) The 'Sachs' MadAss.

8) Cool marques of the past that are just licensing deals with China now. Like Lambretta, Benelli, Sachs, Italjet, Tomos, Garelli, Schwinn, the list keeps growing. I don't have a problem with Asian manufacturing, but most of these brands are just a couple trademark attorneys and an ad agency these days, and have nothing to do with design, quality control, etc.

9) The BMW scooter (and for that matter, Vespas, sorta). Scooters are supposed to be economical and simple transport, not a luxury item.

10) Promises of hybrid and fuel cell scooters that we've been hearing from Piaggio since like 2004. How are those coming, guys? You had working production prototypes on the road five years ago.

[neotrotsky]

I happen to LIKE the P-series bikes Then again, I also am not ashamed to admit that I have DEVO and Flock of Seagulls on my phone's music list.

Take that as you will.

[az_slynch]

I happen to LIKE the P-series bikes

Ditto. I love vintage Vespas. However, I like the fact that I can go out and ride my P200 to Phoenix, ride in a city rally and ride back in the same day without worrying about it. It inspires a level of confidence that my Femsatronic-equipped Rally 200 could never quite match.

Now, if you know where I can find a TS 125 chassis, I'm ready to build a proper vintage...

[pattio]

I'll add my own


Cool marques of the past that are just licensing deals with China now. Like Lambretta, Benelli, Sachs, Italjet, Tomos, Garelli, Schwinn, the list keeps growing. I don't have a problem with Asian manufacturing, but most of these brands are just a couple trademark attorneys and an ad agency these days, and have nothing to do with design, quality control, etc.

9) The BMW scooter (and for that matter, Vespas, sorta). Scooters are supposed to be economical and simple transport, not a luxury item.

10) Promises of hybrid and fuel cell scooters that we've been hearing from Piaggio since like 2004. How are those coming, guys? You had working production prototypes on the road five years ago.

Especially well-said on #8. As consumers we look to 'brands' to help us pre-judge quality in our purchases, yet the 'brands' themselves are all too often just a pantomime.

And wrt #10, with apology for the thread jack, here's a new hybrid scooter that was designed in ten weeks:

http://www.bsmotoring.com/news/exclusiv ... dge/5650/1


A very very large Indian company called Hero hired a small American business called EBR to design it for them.