Two Wheel World Things I Don't Get

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:12 pm

illnoise wrote:4) Half and 3/4 helmets, to me, seem like wearing half or 3/4 of a condom.

A better analogy would be wearing a condom for [sexual activity A] and [sexual activity B], but not [sexual activity C]. It offers protection in some scenarios, just not all.

VinylDoctor · Post by **VinylDoctor** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:36 pm

TVB wrote:
illnoise wrote:4) Half and 3/4 helmets, to me, seem like wearing half or 3/4 of a condom.
A better analogy would be wearing a condom for [sexual activity A] and [sexual activity B], but not [sexual activity C]. It offers protection in some scenarios, just not all.

yeah but in sex you dont hit the dirt at 40 mph on your face. well, not if you do it right.

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:38 pm

VinylDoctor wrote:
TVB wrote:
illnoise wrote:4) Half and 3/4 helmets, to me, seem like wearing half or 3/4 of a condom.
A better analogy would be wearing a condom for [sexual activity A] and [sexual activity B], but not [sexual activity C]. It offers protection in some scenarios, just not all.
yeah but in sex you dont hit the dirt at 40 mph on your face. well, not if you do it right.

Well, then, you just haven't LIVED man! Spend a week in Vegas and then tell me if that analogy still works

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:58 pm

illnoise wrote:2) why modern scooterists make fun of vintage scooterists for all dressing the same (Fred Perry/Ben Sherman/parkas, flights, etc) but all modern scooterists dress the same, too (Corazzo 5.0s and flip flops). I think you're ALL silly. And I dress like both of you.

LOL. Friend and old(er) school scooterist said he wouldn't wear Corazzo (as I was at that moment) because he doesn't want to look like everyone else. I said, "Everyone else except all those guys in Fred Perrys…" He laughed. "Yeah, except all those guys!"

I once asked (on Modern Vespa) how self-identified Mods could reconcile adhering to a subculture founded on modernism and what was new in the early '60s but is now 50 years old. Seemed like a paradox. The equivalent in the '60s would have been people running around in turn of the century garb, listening to turn of the century music—which '60s Mods would have HATED. The same friend as above called me out for wearing Freds and Bens. "Dude, that's just a shirt I like—not a lifestyle!" (I STILL get hell and hatred and ire from people due to that post on MV.)

illnoise wrote:10) Promises of hybrid and fuel cell scooters that we've been hearing from Piaggio since like 2004. How are those coming, guys? You had working production prototypes on the road five years ago.

The hybrid MP3s came out in Europe, then were announced for the US, then… vaporware. So people wonder why I was skeptical about street dates for the BV 350 and the 946 (which will be late 2013 or more likely 2014 now, I think).

Post by **illnoise** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:20 pm

ericalm wrote:LOL. Friend and old(er) school scooterist said he wouldn't wear Corazzo (as I was at that moment) because he doesn't want to look like everyone else.

I love Corazzo in general, I wear their shop jacket most of the time, I've got nothing at all against them, it's just funny how ubiquitous they are in scootering, and modern scooterists don't think they all dress the same. Good for Corazzo, though, and it says a lot about how ugly most m/c gear is.

ericalm wrote:I once asked (on Modern Vespa) how self-identified Mods could reconcile adhering to a subculture founded on modernism and what was new in the early '60s but is now 50 years old.

Well, right, especially because it started out as a rebellion against 'trads' and Teds who WERE dressing retro/slovenly, then the Rocker thing came later. The funny part is that at least half of the hardcore skin/mod types that were around when I got into scootering are now rockabilly/biker guys. Skins at least don't call themselves 'modern,' but yeah, mods need a new name, ha. Also, Mods in the 60s were teenagers, if a 45 year old dude showed up dressed like that, he would have been laughed off the pier.

Post by **illnoise** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:24 pm

In defense of Ben Sherman: I've lucked into finding a few Ben Sherman shirts at a deep discount (marshalls, clearance racks, etc) and they're amazingly well made and nearly wrinkleproof. I have some I've had for more than a decade that look brand new. I'm not a fan of the skinhead style ones (and they're not cut for big guys, despite the fact that plenty of big guys wear them) but their more 'fashion-y' shirts are great.

but I've seen Ben Sherman t-shirts at Costco. That's not mod.

I like the idea and story behind Fred Perry, but I've had a few, and they're like $50+ for a polo shirt, and they shrink, stretch weird, and the collars go crazy after a few washes. If I want shirts like that I can get them at Old Navy for $15. the sweatsuits and tennis sweaters are nice-looking, but sweatsuits and tennis sweaters don't really flatter me either.

Bb.

iMoses · Post by **iMoses** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:05 pm

phatch wrote: Now these I don't understand... bobbers:

Yea, I don't understand women either!

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:49 pm

illnoise wrote:In defense of Ben Sherman: I've lucked into finding a few Ben Sherman shirts at a deep discount (marshalls, clearance racks, etc) and they're amazingly well made and nearly wrinkleproof. I have some I've had for more than a decade that look brand new. I'm not a fan of the skinhead style ones (and they're not cut for big guys, despite the fact that plenty of big guys wear them) but their more 'fashion-y' shirts are great.

but I've seen Ben Sherman t-shirts at Costco. That's not mod.

I like the idea and story behind Fred Perry, but I've had a few, and they're like $50+ for a polo shirt, and they shrink, stretch weird, and the collars go crazy after a few washes. If I want shirts like that I can get them at Old Navy for $15. the sweatsuits and tennis sweaters are nice-looking, but sweatsuits and tennis sweaters don't really flatter me either.

I don't pay retail for clothing. Well, I did on my last trip to Vegas when I had some Black Jack mad money burning a hole in my pocket. Otherwise, not. One of the reasons I have a lot of Ben Sherman is that I like them and they can be found cheap. My affinity for that early-'60s styles goes way back to when I knew almost nothing about Mod culture before the '80s. I just relate to the aesthetics of the period.

Membership in those rigid subcultures doesn't appeal to me. You have to be that, live it and breathe it, 24/7. You get all the rockabilly tattoos, a '50s Lincoln and own nothing but black t-shirts and cuffed Levis, well, you're stuck with that. Same goes for the guy with a Laurel tattoo across his chest and a garage full of farkled-up Lambrettas. That's too restrictive for me, and I don't need peers questioning whether I'm [whatever] enough. For chrissakes, I'm over 40 years old! No one cares!

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:00 pm

ericalm wrote:That's too restrictive for me, and I don't need peers questioning whether I'm [whatever] enough. For chrissakes, I'm over 40 years old! No one cares!

Nothing says "Whatever." quite like showing up to a "vintage" do on a blue '83 Riva 180 with a full set of crashbars, a St. Christopher badge and a vintage plate.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:09 pm

az_slynch wrote:
ericalm wrote:That's too restrictive for me, and I don't need peers questioning whether I'm [whatever] enough. For chrissakes, I'm over 40 years old! No one cares!
Nothing says "Whatever." quite like showing up to a "vintage" do on a blue '83 Riva 180 with a full set of crashbars, a St. Christopher badge and a vintage plate.

hey a 30 y/o riva is almost there!

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/LwTx5-DOVes" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:13 pm

JHScoot wrote: hey a 30 y/o riva is almost there!

She's a classy old scoot:

Credit to Howardr for the picture.

At least 20% less dorky than Hanks's Riva.

[/b]

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:20 pm

My appreciation for the Riva 180 and 200 is pretty well known by now, I think.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:21 pm

wow that is one sweet looking riva!

Southerner · Post by **Southerner** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:44 pm

Small but very capable. That's Eric Buell.

I really think that hybrids are only practical as they extend the capabilities of otherwise totally electric vehicles because of the limits of current battery technology. I think all-electric scooters make more sense. For scooters, hybrid power plants just add more cost, complexity and weight. All of these things are not good for scooters, in my opinion.

Whoops! I just noticed this post had no referencing quote. Should've entered it sooner.

I dunno, kinda like the look of that Riva. Then again, I ride the anti-cool of all streetbikes so what do I know?

Robbie · Post by **Robbie** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:50 pm

Egads!

Thanks for the jolt......NOT.

Darn if you're not right though.......an 86 is actually 30 model years old!

The 2013's are in the showrooms.

Nice survivor there az!

Rob

Drum Pro · Post by **Drum Pro** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:53 pm

I always thought of the "Mod" style as an ever changing subculture. Since it short for modernist, it really means that whatever is new/cutting edge you gotta have it. Every one does it in some area of their lives. As far as music, theres only so much you can do in the context of ska and soul comming from a drummers point of view. It's not like jazz where it's always changing. Most of the ska revival bands are mainly rock bands with a horn section. And they sound great. It seems to me that styles and "scenes" just keep getting chopped up into even smaller sub divisions of the same thing...

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:01 am

Drum Pro wrote:I always thought of the "Mod" style as an ever changing subculture. Since it short for modernist, it really means that whatever is new/cutting edge you gotta have it.

Exactly, which would make you think they'd all be into the newest new modern scooters, with fuel-injection, CVTs, etc., that they'd be hardcore technophiles, that they'd embrace forward fashions, cutting-edge styles and materials.

I'm not critiquing the culture or trying to invalidate it in any way. I get it the desire to want to capture and celebrate a subculture and style firmly anchored in the past. It just seems that reveling in the past is something the original Mods would abhor. So I've always wondered how that works for the guys who have jumped in over the past 30 years or so. I later wondered how I managed to piss so many off simply by asking this! Maybe it was my choice of words…

Drum Pro · Post by **Drum Pro** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:17 am

ericalm wrote: Exactly, which would make you think they'd all be into the newest new modern scooters, with fuel-injection, CVTs, etc., that they'd be hardcore technophiles, that they'd embrace forward fashions, cutting-edge styles and materials.

I'm not critiquing the culture or trying to invalidate it in any way. I get it the desire to want to capture and celebrate a subculture and style firmly anchored in the past. It just seems that reveling in the past is something the original Mods would abhor. So I've always wondered how that works for the guys who have jumped in over the past 30 years or so. I later wondered how I managed to piss so many off simply by asking this! Maybe it was my choice of words…

I agree totally except about the pissed off part. I don't think you've angered anyone but it is strange though. Even when (o.g.)Mod was big it was diverse and took some look from the past.... It really is a paradox

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:19 am

If you REALLY want to get technical with the correlation, today's "Hipsters" with their iDevices, ironic lenseless glasses and constant hunt for vegan, gluten-free, organic felafel joints are pretty much the Mods of the 2010's. But, it's also a generation that finds zero value in automotive devices as well.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:41 am

ericalm wrote:I later wondered how I managed to piss so many off simply by asking this! Maybe it was my choice of words…

You forced people to confront the fact that they were simply into the stylistic trappings of the movement, and not its underlying philosophy (which they apparently didn't understand). No one likes to face the fact that they're (in one respect) superficial. (You'd get the same hostility if you pointed out to a swastika-wearing punk that it's a symbol of state authoritarianism rather than anarchy or rebellion, or to a pagan Narnia fanatic that it's a metaphor for Christianity.)

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:57 am

there is a Riva 200 for sale nearby and I thought "how retro!" and secretly want it, even if there are more efficient models.

I really adore the true vintage scoots, but I doubt my ability to maintain one without a LOT of help

.

Post by **illnoise** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:28 am

ericalm wrote:My appreciation for the Riva 180 and 200 is pretty well known by now, I think. :)

You're not the only one…

Dig the cravat!

I've NEVER seen that photo online, it's one of my favorites.

It's from American Scooterist, the Beat issue. Larry was a beatnik back in the 50s and rode a Vespa, then rode this baby in the 80s, and I guess until recently he was riding a Piaggio MP3, but I just looked and saw the MP3 was up for auction. I have a great big scan of this photo from John Gerber's collection, but I don't want TMZ and Entertainment Weekly stealing it uncredited when he dies, so pardon the crappy file/watermark, ha.

Bryan

Post by **illnoise** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:35 am

I should add that the Beat issue of American Scooterist is something every scooterist should read, John Gerber was put years of research into it and passed away soon after it was published. He maybe wasn't the greatest writer, but no one else had the firsthand experiences and source materials he had. I've never seen any other document that went into that sort of depth about the history of scootering in the U.S.

It was an honor to work on it and I wish VCOA would get their store running so people could actually buy it as a back issue. The GS anniversary issue is also a must-read.

Bryan

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:46 am

Those are two of the best three issues ever. Of course number one is the issue with me on the cover! (I may be a bit biased on this issue!)

jprestonian · Post by **jprestonian** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:02 am

Um... any way to keep from blowing out the forum to widths that people without stadium jumbotrons can deal with? I stop reading threads where I have to scroll horizontally, like this one. I'm at 1024x768.
.

Beamster · Post by **Beamster** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:51 am

On Trikes, hope to never need one but they do keep people no longer physically able to handle a 2 wheeler on the road.

Just don't get Bobbers and Choppers. They went out of style in the late 70's for a reason. They are just dumb engineering.

Cafe racers would be the next in line. Why own a bike that kills your back in 10 miles?

As for classics, they are a financial investment. Ours has increased atleast 4 times it's original price since we've had it.

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:34 am

Beamster wrote:On Trikes, hope to never need one but they do keep people no longer physically able to handle a 2 wheeler on the road.

Just don't get Bobbers and Choppers. They went out of style in the late 70's for a reason. They are just dumb engineering.

Cafe racers would be the next in line. Why own a bike that kills your back in 10 miles?

As for classics, they are a financial investment. Ours has increased atleast 4 times it's original price since we've had it.

The one constant I have learned about vintage machines: never consider them an investment. You will NEVER get your money's worth out of a vintage car or bike in relation to what you put into it. People buy vintage machines all the time thinking its an easy investment, only to sell them at a loss years later. If you broker bikes or cars, sure... But, simply buy what you love and ride it. Trailer queens and living room bikes are for pussies and those with more money than brains. Bikes were made to ride.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:17 am

illnoise wrote:

GOBSMACKED.

I don't have that issue of American Scooterist. Is there a way to get back issues? Bug Mike? Or other Mike?

jprestonian wrote:Um... any way to keep from blowing out the forum to widths that people without stadium jumbotrons can deal with? I stop reading threads where I have to scroll horizontally, like this one. I'm at 1024x768.
.

People would have to stop linking to gigantic images. There are limits for uploads, but not linked images.

LunaP · Post by **LunaP** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:35 am

I'll bite... even though I may catch some flak. FULL DISCLAIMER: I mean no offense to anyone in particular here; I just don't get it/it makes me shake my head.

1) Why so many scooterists seem to unanimously consider The Who to be scooter culture's official band.
2) Italian flags all over your stuff/your clothes/your bike, when your bike/your culture/your heritage has nothing to do with Italy... but it's all just because you ride a scooter of any sort? Um, well, I really like Mexican food so maybe I should start wearing the Mexican flag.
3) Why the government is completely okay with requiring people in cars to wear seat belts, but when it comes to helmets it's a toss up from state to state. Just saying. There's something wrong there- what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
4) Dude... what is up with all the mirrors? Seriously? Silly brits.
5) Giant cruiser MC's with so much chrome it hurts my eyes even on a cloudy day.
6) Fringed leather anything.
7) Super tall handlebars or super long forks on bikes (usually Harleys)
8 ) Mini-bikes. The first time I came across them, two happened to pull up to the same cafe the club meets at before our monthly ride. Two young gentlemen in the vicinity of 6' tall got off them, and all I could think was... "Why?". It was explained to me later that apparently they are sold as 50cc but can be tricked out to between 1-200cc, and hit around 80mph. But who would want to go 80mph on something physically smaller than a bicycle?? Looking for trouble...

Regarding previous topics, Can-Ams are dumb looking, so are the Harley and Honda trikes, not to mention horribly expensive. If I want to spend that much money on a vehicle, I may as well get a car. However, as previously mentioned, I can't help but point out there are exceptions to the rule for trike conversions that deem them practical; like my leg issues. However, an MP3 would serve the same purpose and look less silly. So would attaching a small gas engine to a wheelchair.

Cafe bikes I don't mind; I mind them much much less than aforementioned huge cruisers that are so big and shiny they practically scream "Mid-life crisis", "I'm bored with my money", or "I'm compensating". I prefer bikes that aren't *quite* so bare boned, though. That Bonnie is really nice looking.

VERY YES to illinoise's #9, the BMW scooter. I feel like it's a total joke.
Also, your #1. I completely agree. I love my club, but when I hang out with them and somebody puts on music, talks about a show (or invites me to one on fb), or we have an event and there's a DJ... I want to shoot myself. I listen to a little bit of everything... and yeah, I'll admit, I can get a little stuck up about music. My entire life I've hung out with musically inclined/talented/enthusiastic people. I wanna be one of the cool kids, but I'm not willing to subject my ears to the junk.

(Unrelated... why is this page so wide? I'm having to scroll horizontally)

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:08 am

Thank you for the resize. My apologies for the o/s pic.

Luna, keep an eye out for the MP3 City. It looks to be a bit less beefy than it's predecessors. It was slated as a 2013 model, but who knows when we'll get it.

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:05 am

I'm all over the map: I *love* The Who (but I'm also as mad about Devo!), P-series bikes, ride "tupperware" and embrace the nerd aspect of scootering with my modern bike. I've also ridden CB's and other UJM twins, and was even riding a Sportster for a year on loan before getting another bike. As far as a "scene" goes, whatever they want to represent as I have no issue with, since I really don't fit in with any of them. If they dig it whatever. But, I really don't have any time or interest any more to find total fault with them...

Well, except for the ultra wealthy hipsters and their trust fund bikes. They can frak off. But, I think that's universal for any scene.

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:57 pm

neotrotsky wrote: Well, except for the ultra wealthy hipsters and their trust fund bikes. They can frak off. But, I think that's universal for any scene.

I live in Hipsterland here in Denver. the whole few blocks around me is hipster places. I appreciate the money they dump into the 'hood, and for the most part they are friendly sorts.

But...why pay $20k a year to look like you only make $20k a year? Why...WHYYY have $150 bike lock on a $5 thrift store bike? Also, I drank PBR because it was cheap. Sometimes still do if it's hot and I jut want a cheap beer. But...$4 for one?

Anyway, back to the thread. I like all kinds of things, but giant chrome-mobiles aren't on the list!

ravenlore · Post by **ravenlore** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:04 pm

neotrotsky wrote:If you REALLY want to get technical with the correlation, today's "Hipsters" ... are pretty much the Mods of the 2010's. ...

I've actually thought this myself more than once.

RoaringTodd · Post by **RoaringTodd** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:50 pm

So riding a 1993 futuristic Elite makes me a "Mod"... Cool!

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:08 pm

I still think the elite kicks butt and if I find another for sale, I'm picking one up

.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:15 pm

skully93 wrote:I live in Hipsterland here in Denver. the whole few blocks around me is hipster places. I appreciate the money they dump into the 'hood, and for the most part they are friendly sorts.

"They're pretentious kids with little hats and complicated coffee drinks.... " Hector Elizondo (as Ed Alzate) in "Last Man Standing"

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:39 pm

I know! I figured people with full sleeve tats on both sides must be cool...I was wrong.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:03 pm

The thing I don't get is the 'streetfighter' sportbike-stunt craze. Here in STL this past weekend was the 'Ride of the Century' gathering, where hundreds of sportbikers converged and rode (most of the time on one wheel) on our interstates. Thankfully this year there were no fatalities, but last year there were several, plus quite a few car crashes caused by those knuckleheads splitting at 100mph.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:51 pm

neotrotsky wrote:Well, except for the ultra wealthy hipsters and their trust fund bikes. They can frak off. But, I think that's universal for any scene.

Hey, if I'd been lucky enough to inherit a trust fund, I'd likely buy a/some bikes with that not-so-hard-earned money. Wouldn't you?

How many trust fund recipients do people really think are out there? Or is that just a term for "anyone younger than me who somehow has a shitload more money than I do"? No way anyone under 30 makes that much. Must be a trust fund!

LunaP wrote:1) Why so many scooterists seem to unanimously consider The Who to be scooter culture's official band.

LunaP wrote:2) Italian flags all over your stuff/your clothes/your bike, when your bike/your culture/your heritage has nothing to do with Italy... but it's all just because you ride a scooter of any sort? Um, well, I really like Mexican food so maybe I should start wearing the Mexican flag.

LOL. But yes.

LunaP wrote:3) Why the government is completely okay with requiring people in cars to wear seat belts, but when it comes to helmets it's a toss up from state to state. Just saying. There's something wrong there- what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Discussion of helmet laws is off limits! Let's not lock this thread! Thanks.

LunaP wrote:4) Dude... what is up with all the mirrors? Seriously? Silly brits.

LunaP wrote:6) Fringed leather anything.

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:10 pm

LunaP wrote:4) Dude... what is up with all the mirrors? Seriously? Silly brits.

▲▲▲▲▲

Pffft, amateurs. unlike this guy...there is a 50 Special buried in there...

Image credit to Scooterlounge.
http://scooterlounge.com/blog/2010/05/f ... -mods.html

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:48 pm

I'm surprised that mobody's mentioned these:

Image credit to Wikipedia, Segway PT article. Small size selected for low monitor displacements.

To make matters worse, check this out:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/0 ... 110437.htm

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:56 pm

ericalm wrote:
neotrotsky wrote:Well, except for the ultra wealthy hipsters and their trust fund bikes. They can frak off. But, I think that's universal for any scene.
Hey, if I'd been lucky enough to inherit a trust fund, I'd likely buy a/some bikes with that not-so-hard-earned money. Wouldn't you?

How many trust fund recipients do people really think are out there? Or is that just a term for "anyone younger than me who somehow has a shitload more money than I do"? No way anyone under 30 makes that much. Must be a trust fund!

LunaP wrote:1) Why so many scooterists seem to unanimously consider The Who to be scooter culture's official band.

LunaP wrote:2) Italian flags all over your stuff/your clothes/your bike, when your bike/your culture/your heritage has nothing to do with Italy... but it's all just because you ride a scooter of any sort? Um, well, I really like Mexican food so maybe I should start wearing the Mexican flag.
LOL. But yes.
LunaP wrote:3) Why the government is completely okay with requiring people in cars to wear seat belts, but when it comes to helmets it's a toss up from state to state. Just saying. There's something wrong there- what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Discussion of helmet laws is off limits! Let's not lock this thread! Thanks.

LunaP wrote:4) Dude... what is up with all the mirrors? Seriously? Silly brits.

LunaP wrote:6) Fringed leather anything.

I work for a Jazz club (among over venues) in Phoenix's downtown arts district, Roosevelt St. On any given day, you will find HUNDREDS of these little children spending thousands if not more of mommy and daddy's money to try to look like they make the same I do but without the work and the talent it takes. I use the term "trust fund" for anyone who uses their money to flaunt a carefree "artists" lifestyle while not producing one damn bit of art.

And, I would be far less critical if that money actually went to improving the scene here. Instead, they spend it in very small circles, and they DEFINITELY don't spend it on local musicians, galleries or businesses. They are quick to buy in and co-opt great ideas, run those galleries and businesses into the ground by trying to import "talent" from New York, Toronto or LA and then leave a huge sucking hole where that venture was. And, the artists who originally started that space are back to zero. Sure, they didn't make the flash-in-the-pan revenue for three months the little rich twats did, but they were making revenue for years on a far smaller scale, and they were encouraging local artists, vendors and local jobs. It wasn't as cool and didn't make for awesome instagram posts, but it still worked for this area.

If you have earned the money you blow, it shows. For every tattoo shop that seems to crank out emo-core band frontmen clones, there are a couple of shops that have been mainstays by artists who have done this as a living and are smart with their efforts. For every hip "retro botique" that pops up and goes under in months, there are awesome thrift shops run by mom and pop groups who are just trying to make the bills and have been doing so smartly for years. This is because they made the money themselves, and aren't for the image but to also see their ideas hang around. To many of the wealthy hipsters who will drop 10K on a Viet-bodged Vespa and $300 on skinny jeans using the newest AmEx card sent priority mail from dad, it's all a game. Who cares if the constant overturn of businesses and frivolous treatment of the local economy makes it harder for the actual artists, small biz owners and investors to function with some legit face.

/rant off.

Sorry. The current state of wealthy "bohemians", while not new, is kind of at a fever pitch right now in Phoenix. So much money that isn't theirs, and so little talent.

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:11 pm

ericalm wrote: Hey, if I'd been lucky enough to inherit a trust fund, I'd likely buy a/some bikes with that not-so-hard-earned money. Wouldn't you?

How many trust fund recipients do people really think are out there? Or is that just a term for "anyone younger than me who somehow has a shitload more money than I do"? No way anyone under 30 makes that much. Must be a trust fund!

Yes, but based on my single-minded, narrow view. Outside of that is clearly wrong!

.

I'm sure if I was given access to gobs of cash, especially 10-20 years ago, I would have done nothing but inane nonsense with it. Now at least it means something to me when I do that.

Still...no leather fringe for me, ever. I look silly enough as it is.

Christophers · Post by **Christophers** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:55 pm

neotrotsky wrote: /rant off.

LOL... This thread.

Southerner · Post by **Southerner** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:29 pm

LunaP wrote:................................
1) Why so many scooterists seem to unanimously consider The Who to be scooter culture's official band.
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5) Giant cruiser MC's with so much chrome it hurts my eyes even on a cloudy day.
6) Fringed leather anything.
7) Super tall handlebars or super long forks on bikes (usually Harleys)
8 ) Mini-bikes. The first time I came across them, two happened to pull up to the same cafe the club meets at before our monthly ride. Two young gentlemen in the vicinity of 6' tall got off them, and all I could think was... "Why?". It was explained to me later that apparently they are sold as 50cc but can be tricked out to between 1-200cc, and hit around 80mph. But who would want to go 80mph on something physically smaller than a bicycle?? Looking for trouble...

Regarding previous topics, Can-Ams are dumb looking, so are the Harley and Honda trikes, not to mention horribly expensive. If I want to spend that much money on a vehicle, I may as well get a car. However, as previously mentioned, I can't help but point out there are exceptions to the rule for trike conversions that deem them practical; like my leg issues. However, an MP3 would serve the same purpose and look less silly. So would attaching a small gas engine to a wheelchair.

Cafe bikes I don't mind; I mind them much much less than aforementioned huge cruisers that are so big and shiny they practically scream "Mid-life crisis", "I'm bored with my money", or "I'm compensating". I prefer bikes that aren't *quite* so bare boned, though. That Bonnie is really nice looking.

VERY YES to illinoise's #9, the BMW scooter. I feel like it's a total joke.
Also, your #1. I completely agree. I love my club, but when I hang out with them and somebody puts on music, talks about a show (or invites me to one on fb), or we have an event and there's a DJ... I want to shoot myself. I listen to a little bit of everything... and yeah, I'll admit, I can get a little stuck up about music. My entire life I've hung out with musically inclined/talented/enthusiastic people. I wanna be one of the cool kids, but I'm not willing to subject my ears to the junk.

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Allow me to have some fun with your's, Luna, if I may. First of all, I mostly agree.
1. Having only owned MCs to this point, I would probably identify with the rockers but am also quite partial to the Who.
5. I believe the overloaded machines you are talking about are a subject of debate even within that community. They are referred to as "billet barges."
6. Don't forget the really long fringes extending from the ends of the handlebars, Plus even sometimes from conchas on the saddle. Yuck!
8. A mini-bike used to be a cheap ride with a minimal frame powered by a low-compression lawnmower-type engine. The rear brake was often a rubber pad that applied directly to the rear tire. A real small motorcycle like my old Mini-Trail was far superior. But people have to live within their budgets.

I don't dislike cafe bikes per se, but I really wish people, and it usually seems to be women (sorry Luna) didn't feel called upon to label any fun elective purchase by a middle-aged man as a "mid-life crisis." Aren't we allowed to have any fun? Should we be required to stick to beige Buick 4-doors? After all, the kids are grown.

I don't think the Beemer scooter is going to be a runaway success but is it that much more expensive than a Burgman 650? I really don't think they fall into the same category as a vintage Vespa but at one time there were touring scooters, not as big but made to go on the road. These are inheritors of [/i]that tradition.
A guy on a maxi-scooter site once opined that they are really better considered automatic motorcycles than scooters.

Lokky · Post by **Lokky** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:55 pm

people obsessed with vintage scoots to the point of being elitist about it.

Yes look, I understand the appeal of an older bike, I would own my own vintage if I had a garage, the spare cash and the time to work on it.
What I do not understand however is people who look down on others for not having a vintage bike. I have much more respect for someone who actually rides than someone who is into it just to flaunt his vintages and live the scene.

SYMbionic Duo · Post by **SYMbionic Duo** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:25 am

I think that most of this thread can be summed up by saying that we don't like posers. whether they are 'hipsters' 'bohemians' 'weekend warriors' or whatever.

I personally wouldn't want to own a motorcycle unless it had something mechanically interesting going on, like an useable all electric design, or clean direct injection 2T, or rotary, diesel, or whatever.

I like the design of cafe racers, i like the idea of mix and match bikes, to get what you want. (can you tell i am a tinkerer) but i think that the 'scene' that gets manufacturers to produce bikes for a subculture is disingenuous. And harkens back to the posers, that most of us scoff at.

"To thine own self be true"

-duo

LunaP · Post by **LunaP** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:33 am

ericalm wrote:
neotrotsky wrote:Well, except for the ultra wealthy hipsters and their trust fund bikes. They can frak off. But, I think that's universal for any scene.
Hey, if I'd been lucky enough to inherit a trust fund, I'd likely buy a/some bikes with that not-so-hard-earned money. Wouldn't you?

How many trust fund recipients do people really think are out there? Or is that just a term for "anyone younger than me who somehow has a shitload more money than I do"? No way anyone under 30 makes that much. Must be a trust fund!

LunaP wrote:1) Why so many scooterists seem to unanimously consider The Who to be scooter culture's official band.

LunaP wrote:2) Italian flags all over your stuff/your clothes/your bike, when your bike/your culture/your heritage has nothing to do with Italy... but it's all just because you ride a scooter of any sort? Um, well, I really like Mexican food so maybe I should start wearing the Mexican flag.
LOL. But yes.

LunaP wrote:3) Why the government is completely okay with requiring people in cars to wear seat belts, but when it comes to helmets it's a toss up from state to state. Just saying. There's something wrong there- what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Discussion of helmet laws is off limits! Let's not lock this thread! Thanks.

LunaP wrote:4) Dude... what is up with all the mirrors? Seriously? Silly brits.

LunaP wrote:6) Fringed leather anything.

My rebuttal:

Birtish, rides a Vespa, wears converses, suits up... I think I'd rather worship David Tennant instead. At least the Doctor doesn't wear fringed leather...

az_slynch wrote:Luna, keep an eye out for the MP3 City. It looks to be a bit less beefy than it's predecessors. It was slated as a 2013 model, but who knows when we'll get it.

Good to know, thanks!! I always thought MP3's were cool looking, but much too big for me. We'll see if Piaggio decides to bring it over... *strokes imaginary beard*

Southerner · Post by **Southerner** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:31 am

I'm glad they changed the name. I think Yuban used to be a brand of coffee.

LunaP · Post by **LunaP** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:26 am

Southerner wrote:I'm glad they changed the name. I think Yuban used to be a brand of coffee.

Temporary hijack warning!
Haha, from what I read while researching (almost everything I found were articles from 2010 (which is when Piaggio promised it to us in 2011) it was called the Yourban in Europe (ew) and would debut here as the MP3 City... a shorter, narrower machine with a slightly more scooter-esque look, 13" wheels rather than 12", and a 300cc FI engine. Definitely exciting to me (if I can get over the fact that it looks like an ATV with a wheel missing... at least in red, it does).

However, it seems Piaggio yanked the plans to send it here shortly after because they felt they still had too many other MP3 units sitting on floors here to move, and haven't revisited the plans. Linky! Looks to me like if I actually want an MP3, it'd just be better to go sit on one, make sure I like the height, then keep an eye out for a used one, rather than waiting around for Piaggio.
Hah, it's not like I'm in a hurry for one anyway, though...[/b]