A Super 250?

[Southerner]

I have a non-scooter-riding co-worker who swears a friend of his has a 250cc scooter that can reach 90 mph and still gets 70 mpg. Naturally he doesn't know one scooter from another (although he can tell one 50+/- year old Chevy from another at a glance) and can't even tell me the brand.

Since my 800cc motorcycle does maybe 110 and gets an unsurprising 45+/- mpg, I'm skeptical.

Is there indeed such a super scooter?

[skully93]

my Kymco can go 80mph for a while, OR it can get roughly 70mpg. I can't do both on the same tank of gas .

[Dooglas]

Well, my BV 350 hits a true 88 mph and gets 70 mpg. Does that count?

[Skootz Kabootz]

I had my GTS 300 Super at 97MPH indicated before the rev limiter kicked in (damn rev limiter, I really wanted to hit 100mph just once to say I did it). I figure that's about 85mph real world. I've been averaging around 68 mpg so far.

[still shifting]

Maybe we can get a grant to travel around to research this claim... ? R

[jrsjr]

I have a non-scooter-riding co-worker who swears a friend of his has a 250cc scooter that can reach 90 mph...

With an inaccurate enough speedometer, all things are possible. My Nazgûl's speedo swears I'm doing nearly 115 when I'm really just poking along at 94.

Other than a wildly inaccurate speedo, the other two magic ingredients in absurd reported scooter speeds are a stiff tailwind and the ever-popular downhill grade. This is why real land speed records require a two-way run through a calibrated speed trap.

[neotrotsky]

My GTS250ie topped out at a GPS 82mph (only a few times) and averaged 68mpg. With less gear on it, a windshield, lighter rider and tweaking a few other factors, 90mph wouldn't be out of the question. It was also bone stock on the engine. The trick would be to increase fuel economy by reducing the load on the engine and reducing the resistance to the bike (more air in the tires, windsheld, etc). Also, terrain and road surface would be a factor I'm sure. My highest speeds were on freeways that were paved in recycled asphalt made from rubber tires (US 60 in Phoenix AZ)

[az_slynch]

I have a non-scooter-riding co-worker who swears a friend of his has a 250cc scooter that can reach 90 mph and still gets 70 mpg. Naturally he doesn't know one scooter from another (although he can tell one 50+/- year old Chevy from another at a glance) and can't even tell me the brand.

Since my 800cc motorcycle does maybe 110 and gets an unsurprising 45+/- mpg, I'm skeptical.

Is there indeed such a super scooter?

Just a guess, but it sorta sounds like the lore I've heard about the Honda Reflex. I considered buying a used one before settling on the Yager, so I did a bit of reading on them. Realistic maximum speed for a stock Reflex is about 80mph. With speedometer discrepancies as they are, the needle could read 90mph while maxed out. The can get around 70mpg, but that's only at speeds around 55-60mph. The bike's carbureted, so it's a safe bet that it won't make that sort of economy at WOT. I'd guess economy would be mid-fifties at max speed.

You have my curiosity piqued. If you do learn what it is, please do share.

[Southerner]

So, within reach but not likely?

[anthony]

I don't know your co-worker or their friend of course, but I have seen the tendency among 2-wheelers to talk up the specs of their bike, particularly top speed, but also mpg (the latter particularly when discussing with cagers), and I can imagine this person hyping up their machine as a chance to impress (and potentially convert) the other person with how awesome scooters can be (which is true, of course).

[Rusty Shackleford]

I have a non-scooter-riding co-worker who swears a friend of his has a 250cc scooter that can reach 90 mph and still gets 70 mpg. Naturally he doesn't know one scooter from another (although he can tell one 50+/- year old Chevy from another at a glance) and can't even tell me the brand.

Since my 800cc motorcycle does maybe 110 and gets an unsurprising 45+/- mpg, I'm skeptical.

Is there indeed such a super scooter?

There's more affecting gas mileage than displacement, but his claims sound dead on. I ride a CBR250R. 250cc, 90mph, 70mpg.

To oversimplify, there's a trade off between displacement and compression ratio affecting engine characteristics such as red line, HP, torque, and fuel economy. In short, the more power an engine makes per displacement, the lower the fuel economy. A 600cc sportbike may get 40mpg, but has over 100hp. An 800cc V-Twin cruiser could deliver 1/2 the horsepower, but get 50mph and have more low end torque.

[Witch]

I have been known to push 90 or very close to it on my GTV 250. As others mentioned, it's hard to tell with inaccurate speedos. And I can get 70mpg or better. But as also mentioned... I can't do both on the same tank of gas.

[Dooglas]

I have been known to push 90 or very close to it on my GTV 250. As others mentioned, it's hard to tell with inaccurate speedos.

But not hard to tell with a GPS, for anyone who actually wants to know .

[SYMbionic Duo]

My Downtown (298cc) will do 85-90mph (WOT) and get 50-55mpg. or i can cruise at 70mph and get 67-70mpg.

My Citycom (264cc) would do 80mph (WOT) and get 55-60mpg, or cruise at 70mph and get 68 mpg. (either the FI system or the gearing prevent 90mph, cuz the bike puts out a lot of power to just die at 80)

The RV250 will top out at 90, but it only gets 60mpg cruising and like 45-50 at WOT.


I don't think there is an engine that exists that will get 70mpg @ 90mph. well maybe if you have a super aerodynamic shell for the vehicle...

[neotrotsky]

The biggest factor is AVERAGE MPG. As I said before, my old Vespa GTS got just over 80mph a few times, but that was on rare occasion. Also, my 68mpg was an average, which meant there were tanks where I got less (even as low as 50mpg depending on how hard I rode) or as high as 75-78mpg. It's perfectly believable that a scooter could go 90mph AND could achieve 70-80mpg. But at the same time? Doubtful with current technology.

[Southerner]

I guess I was too simplistic. Being able to achieve 90 mph but also being regularly able to achieve 70 mpg at sane speeds is more like it. At least, I think that's what the guy was trying to claim.

As to the CBR250r, I note first that's a motorcycle, with the big wheels. And is probably also helped by having Honda redesign the humble single with state-of-the-art technology.

I thought a lot of the SM RV250. Ingenuous and well-thought-out, it seemed. It's no longer sold here is it?

[Syd]

Doesn't look like it. Replaced with the RV200, it seems, which shares the HD200's bulletproof 171cc powerplant.

[Rusty Shackleford]

As to the CBR250r, I note first that's a motorcycle, with the big wheels. And is probably also helped by having Honda redesign the humble single with state-of-the-art technology.

It's indeed true Honda knows their stuff when it comes to fuel economy. There's guys who have the CBR250R like I do and get 80mpg. I ride too hard to get that. That said, a fuel injected, single cylinder 250, ridden conservatively, should be able to make 70mpg, yes. Top speed should also be somewhere between 80mph and 90mph, that's also correct. In fact, go look at Vespa's numbers. The GTS 300 is stated as 65mpg. That's spot on what my guess would've been. It says 80mph, which sounds about right since scooter engines are biased a bit towards low-end power (excluding the new Piaggio 350 engine).

[Disney]

I just did a day trip yesterday on my Vespa GTS 250. It was mostly highway like 80% of the ride. I started out with a full tank and rode about 120 miles. My average speed was like 65-75mph on highway and I did manage to hit 88ish mph a few times for a good distance. I still have 2 of 11 bars left on my gauge. (digital dash with tripometer). Usually when my digital gauge hits 0 bars and I fill up, it usually fills up 1.8 out of. 2.4 gallons.

So with that, I would say by 0 bars, I would have gotten close to 70-75 mpg with average speed of 65-75 mph AND hitting 88mph a few times.

*UPDATE*

I just filled up my tank with the digital gauge at 0 bars. I didn't want to scoot until the Vespa started dying out but I mentally went as far as I can with the digital reading 0.

I filled up with 1.98 gallons (2.4 gallon tank isn't it?) with 132.2 miles on the tripometer... leaving me with about 0.4 gallons left

132.2 miles / 1.98 gallon = 66.76mpg

[Southerner]

That's quite decent performance. Excellent, in fact, for a scoot.

I distinctly recall that my old Suzuki GS450S got a reliable 60 mpg and I think it was good into the 90+mph zone. In other words, your Vespa is excellent. And you don't have to pedal 6 gears.