Stella 4T/Cozy Sidecar setup

The original 2-stroke Genuine scooter and its 4-stroke manual and automatic offspring

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Wolfhound
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Stella 4T/Cozy Sidecar setup

Post by Wolfhound »

Does anyone here have experience with the Stella 4T attached to a Cozy
sidecar? I have the 4T and I have the sidecar attached to a TGB R9i.
What I need to know about the 4T/sidecar is: Top and cruising speed,
mpg, tire wear.
On the exsting set up I am getting 48mpg, top speed of 55mph and cruising speed of 50 mph. Tire wear is not wonderful but OK.
The Cozy is designed for the 4T. I dont expect better speeds but would
like to see better mpg and tire wear. Any advise would be appreciated. :roll:
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Post by Robbie »

I assume you are referring to the tire wear on the scooter, not the hack.

For starters, I think your speed capability and mpg are phenominal......I believe the scooter was only rated 80 mpg and that would be for level ground, average height/weight rider at 50% of rated top speed on a dead still day.
You are getting just under 50 with what I presume to be a much further open throttle than riding as designed......I bet a Stella would be hard pressed to match your readings.

Having ridden a 2t and 4t Stella with a empty hack......well, lets just say I don't think there is a road long enouph to see 55.

The tire wear.......well, consider that just one tire is propelling that whole affair down the road.....and, even though the tire has a round profile for cornering, you are never using that tread......you are straight up at all times.......and it wear direction is always side loaded (non-powered car wants to pull bike around it.

With that in mind, I would hazard a guess at maybe three to four thousand miles at best......Can't imagine a non'hacked version of your machine doing much better than 6 to 7 k.

We put a hack on a Goldwing 1500 a few years ago.....no hack, conservative riding it could get around 55 to 60 mpg.
With the hack, it dropped right down to 30 and more often mid 20's.

I'm tempted to say count your blessings.

Rob
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Post by Wolfhound »

Thanks for the imput, Robbie. Actually I was thinking of the tire wear on
both the tug and hack.
The R9i is a 151.1cc engine, max power 10.1 HP @7500 rpms. It is air and
oil cooled. You are correct about the mpg spec. I never was able to get 80mpg but did get 68-70 mpg the times I kept close track of it. This was before the hack was attached. I live in the NGA mountains and did a lot of coasting downhill to get this milage. I could get 58-60 mph out of her @ wot. I am 6'1", 185 lbs. Usualluy ran at 50-55 mph. not a lot of long straight roads here. Most here with TGB 150s run them WOT for periods of time, myself included. I prefer 3/4 throttle. The figures I stated with the hack was carefully monitored and running 45-50mph. According to the manual it is 150cc and 9+/-.03 bhp @ 6250 rpm. So far on the Stella I am averaging 120 mpg running 40 to 50 mph up and down as I am breaking her in. This has surprised me!!! I like the Stella and probably wot put the hack on her. My dealer has one set up for sale but I have not ridden it yet.
I just put my first rear tire on my TGB 150 Del at 8300 mile, front tire is still good to go.
Sorry for being so long winded!!!!!
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Post by Robbie »

Wolfhound,
If the hack tire is wearing at the rate of the drive tire on the bike I'd be trying to determine if there is a toe in or out condition......essentially dragging the tire.
Really shouldn't wear any faster than the scooters front tire unless you are carrying a lot of weight......although many operators do put weight in the unloaded hack....like 50lbs.
But I mean a lot of weight, like 150lbs all the time.

You are the first I've read on the forum using a CVT scooter with a car.....thats gotta be one hard working belt!

Your mpg results with the Stella are not unusual for a sensibly operated manual trans....you have learned to use the available torque at low rpm as opposed to wringing its neck to get the same results.

I tend to short shift my 2T and generally get 90+ mpg......I'm in the flatlands of Illinois so I don't have to work as hard as you do with all the elevation changes.

Have fun!

Rob
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Post by Wolfhound »

I have considered toe in/toe out myself. It is a bit cold right now for us
ol' Rebs to ride but as soon as we get a break I will take it out and check it. So far as the belt, it is showing no wear but I took a clutch out up
in Bryson City last summer, my error. A quick fix once we got it home.
Rear new tire is not wearing too fast so far.
There are not many CVTs being used as tugs so far as I can tell. I may be the only one to try it around here.
If you get too heavy on taking off in first gear you will do a wheelie if you
are not careful!!! I have found that it handles most hills fine in 4th, now and then I go to 3rd. It has enough torque to handle any thing you ask of it. I am 76 and 50-55 is a comfortable pace for me. I like to take my time and enjoy the ride. Happy Holidays!!!! :D
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Post by 50CC Cape Cod »

When adding a sidecar to the Stella 2T do you upgrade the jet or exhaust?
I know the 4T does not have that ability. I am looking at using this type of set up on either and comparing.
I have also heard that a steering stabilizer would be worthwhile for either
a 2T or 4T. I am also over 60 and speeds of 50mph if can do would be satisfactory also like to enjoy the ride.
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Post by viney266 »

76 and still riding! Way to go! Hope to join that club myself one day.

I have a 2t stella with a hack and have helped set-up others. If you ride in any way aggressive with a hack you will wear the front tire faster than anything. The hack tire will wear, but the front seems to get it the worst on the sidecar equipped bikes and scoots I've driven.
Speed is only a matter of money...How fast do you want to go?
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Post by viney266 »

We added a damper to the front end of the Stella sidecar rig and it definately helped with the low speed wobble at 15-20 MPH, the 2T needs an exhaust and a rejet. The 4T is a torquey little guy and though I don't own one it is probably a better candidate for a hack.
Speed is only a matter of money...How fast do you want to go?
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Post by Wolfhound »

I carry 50 lbs weight and a spare tire plus 2 gallons of gas in the hack.
Oddly enough front tire wobble has not been an issue. I checked the rear
tire and the hack time and so far wearing ok. Front tire is good.
If I swap the Hack to the Stella 4T a damper will be included in the set up.
I think the Stella would be the better tug since the Cozy is supposedly built
for it. Here in the mountains I think the 4 speed would be the better way to go.
Thanks for the compliment Vinny. I am fortunate to be in good health, work out 3-4 days a week, and am still running a home business
for fun money. Growing old is inevitable, being old is not!
Once it warms up so that I can put a couple of hundred miles on the Stella
I will take it back to Vespa Matietta for its first servicing and will discuss the hack with Floyd Grimm, the manager. He just set one up for a client and has owned a couple himself. They are a good dealership.
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Post by 50CC Cape Cod »

Wolfhound I am looking to use the set up Stella 4T and Cozy Rocket.
I have been comparing a Stella 2T vs. Stella 4T and overall for the type of riding looking for similar to you think the 4T may be a better option.
Overall how have you found the 2012 Stella 4T. Any issues? Did the dealer have to do any special prepping electrical wiring, cable rerouting, fuel lines or carb cleaning prior to delivery? I have heard these where issues with Stella in the past? Thanks for any input.
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Post by Wolfhound »

50cc, I think that the Stella 4T would be the better choice as a tug based on what others who have used the 2T have said.
Keep in mind that I am still breaking in my Stella 4T. I have 250 miles on
it so far. It is very torquey, pulls the hills here usually in 4th gear, steeper
ones in 3rd. My biggest problem with it is starting on a hill in 1st gear while using the brake pedal. Takes a little getting used to. So far the mpg has been outstanding, around 120. I am breaking it in easy.
I did not ask my dealer as to what was performed prep wise but know that Floyd Grimm, the manager , had personally ridden it before turning
over to me. Vespa Marietta has been outstanding to deal with.
Would I buy another 4T. Yes.May I ask why you want to have a side car?
Keep in mind that you will need to learn all you can about driving
a tug/hack setup. And if you go this route, take your time and practice a lot. With scoots like ours you will find that the rig will not be as fast as it
would without the sidecar. And you drive a tug/hack. Same applies to a
trike.
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Post by 50CC Cape Cod »

Hi Wolfhound thanks for the feedback. I have always wanted a sidecar and have a derestricted Kymco which is very easy and fun to ride.
I like the vintage style of the Stella especially with the Cozy Roket. I have vintage cars and would like to be able to also take the Stella to some car shows. I am vintage as my vehicles in my 60's and would like to use a sidecar for riding with the dog. Also speed is not an issue as long as can go 45-50MPH on most of the routes will be traveling. Also thought the side car would help with some arthritis in the right knee keeping things upright when stopped.
I have driven both the Stella 2T and 4T and liked both but found the 4T smoother to shift and less vibration. Also looking to have less maintenance or tinkering as I understand the 4T is versus the 2T. When I tested the 4T I found you could feather out the clutch easier than the 2T so that should make the hill starting
a little easier with practice. I have also heard that how the sidecar is set up makes a big riding and handling difference and a steering damper helps quite a bit at the slow speeds. Still as you said need to take it slow and get the practice in. I have noticed many of these set ups end up for sale with very limited miles.
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Post by Wolfhound »

You should get the speeds you want with the Sterlla. My TGB R9i can hit
55 in some cases but 45-50 is more reasonable. Have fortunately not
needed a steering damper on it but will put one on the Stella.All my riding
is on county roads or city streets. I am 76 and my reason for 3 wheels is the same as yours, osteo arthritus in both knees and neuropathy in both legs below the knees. Not too bad but three wheels makes a big difference in riding comfort.
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Post by Dooglas »

I had a 2T Stella and Cozy sidecar rig a while back and found it a bit underpowered. I do think the 4T Stella would make a better sidecar tug as it seems to have more low to mid-range torque than the 2T.
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Post by 50CC Cape Cod »

I am glad you are still enjoying the ride. I have a magnet that says" You are only young once but you can stay immature indefinitely"
I know after a nice ride as long as not being tailgated or cut off is a good moral booster. Thats why need to be able to go 45-50MPH. For the knees try some Myoflex topical cream or a generic equivalent if aspirin is not an issue.
Trying to get scooter decisions done over the winter looking forward to the spring.
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Post by Wolfhound »

I try to stay away from aspiren type pain relievers unless it gets really
bad which is not often. I have not tried Myoflex but am getting good results with BenGay Cold Therapy. I spent 27 years showing dogs,
15 of them as a licensed Pro Handler. 30-40 weekends a year running around show rings did not help the knees much but I loved it. Do not spend your life working at jobs that you do not like!! And be wiling to try new things as you grow older. Keep us posted on what you decide for a tug.
Growing old is inevitible, being old is not.
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Post by Wolfhound »

Was doing a little research at Bing.com images. Searched for sidecars and came up with a page of pix. There were a lot of Vespa 150 scoots with various sidecars, mostly Cozy types. It apppears to be a popular
set up. I have pretty well decided to go with it on my Stells 4T once it is broken in. :D
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Post by Dooglas »

The Cozy is more than just a common choice for Stella and P/PX Vespa scooters. It is the only one currently available in the US. It comes in two styles - the Rocket and the Euro. It is available new through Scooterworks in Chicago or American Scooter Center in Texas. There are a fair number of used ones around and you can save some money that way. There have been other choices in the past (hence the photos you saw) and sometimes a used one by California Sidecars or another manufacturer shows up on CraigsList.
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Post by Wolfhound »

You are correct, Dooglas. I bought the Rocket new for my TGB R9i. I got
a good price on mine from Vespa Marietta. I found that the only way to
get decent gas milage on it was to remove the windshield and keep the
cover on. It made a great difference.
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Post by graywolf »

Out of curiosity generated by this tread, I have been looking up sidecars on the web. Apparently the Cozy's are copies of the Steib LS-200 and S-200 sidecars. The smallest ones Steib made.

It seems like you have to want that third seat real badly to give up half your fuel milage, and 2/3's of your speed. On the other hand it seems to be about the best way to deal with small children or pets and still ride.

A Ural seems very expensive until you compare it to a Royal Enfield and a Cozt at $7K + $3.5K + $whatever to have them mated. I think I would go with an Ural Patrol T (the cheap 2wd version) if I could afford any of them.

Anyway, sidecar rigs seem like they would be quite an adventure.
Last edited by graywolf on Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Wolfhound »

Greywolf, you are correct in that the Cozy is based on the Steib hacks.
My mpg on my TGB R9i with the hack averages around 48. Better than
you might expect. Top speed dropped from 60 to 55 mph but hills will
slow it down to 40.. If I put the Cozy on the Stella I would expect a drop
in mpg but am getting an average of 120 now without the hack. Cant say
what the mph drop would be since I do not have the Stella broken in yet.
My reason for going with the sidecar is that I have neuropathy in my lower legs and feet. It is easier to maintain balance when stopped. I do
ride 2 wheelers in my 'stable' but can see the day coming that it might be a problem. As for the Ural I would love to have the rig you mentioned but
would have to change it over to a suicide shift because of a lack of flexability in my ankles. That and the fact that the Ural only gets 28-33 mpg would make it impractical for me. It is a 'git er dun' rig tho.
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Post by Wolfhound »

A good source of info on side cars is www.sidecar.com, the forum for
the United Sidecar Assoc..
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Post by graywolf »

Wow, Wolfhound, ankle problems is a pretty good reason to stick to scooters. Unfortunately every modern motorcycle seems to be made so you need the use of all four limbs.

For those who have never ridden a side shifter, most of them had the clutch where the rear brake is on a modern bike, and both brakes on the handle bars like an automatic scooter these days.

BTW, a hand "side" shift was not a suicide shifter. A suicide shifter had the side shift removed, and added linkage to put the shift under the right foot next to the clutch. You clutched and shifted with the right foot at the same time. If you were not perfectly coordinated, it was pretty much an "Oh Shit!" situation; which was why they called them suicide shifters.

Back when I was in the Air Force, I had a buddy who had a '39 Harley 61 with that set up. I believe idiots like my buddy, and serious racers were the only ones who used a set up like that, so most people have never seen one, but they have heard of them so use the term for something it isn't. He let me try it once, I nearly ran it into a wall trying to shift from first to second.
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Post by Wolfhound »

Honda now has 'automatic' shifting trannies available all the way down to
some of their 250-700cc models. I understand that Hardley Davidson
has one now or on the way. They ain't cheap tho. I have seen a Honda Gold Wing trike with that set up.
The reason I was calling them suicide shifts was because I had seen them
referred to as such on some of the big boy trikes. Basically what they looked like to me was a stick shift tied into the original foot shift Great
for handicapped riders. The term has sort of caught on around here.
Your description sounds more accurate to me!!!
Another good reason to ride scooters is economical. They are cheaper to buy, get far better gas milage, and overall upkeep is less.
Another very legitimate reason for me personally is that my wife, who doesnt ride will let me have a scooter but draws the line on a MC! :wink:
8)
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Post by graywolf »

There are a few new sidecar threads over on modern vespa. Is it the snow that makes people think of sidecars.

Was not criticizing, Wolfhound, just thought some would find the historical stuff interesting. The side shift was not a problem back in the old days on the big indians and harleys, they just got into 3rd at about 10mph and stayed there until they came to a stop. The racing guys of course wanted to stay on top of the curve so the side shift was no good for them. Some of them went all the way and moved the clutch to the handle bar, but many of them used the suicide shifter, and thought nothing of rolling their ankle sideways to use the clutch and rocking it forward and back to shift.

I guess the point here is that back in the 1930's the side shift was the norm, not some strange modification. Some time back in the 1970's the feds passed a law mandating where the controls had to be on a motorcycle, prior to that they were setup however the manufacturer chose to do it.

I do feel for you, my wife took the motorcycle safety course, and flunked it. After that she refused even ride with me, and did not want me riding either. I finally sold the bikes, then she left me. I think the moral to that is that trying to please someone else, never works out.

I have discovered a small 250cc general purpose motorcycle that may push me away from getting a scooter. Reasonable fast (80'osh), utterly reliable, really good mileage (reports of up to 100mpg), no factor storage space whatsoever, virtually no accessories available in the US. Resonalbly inexpensive ($4K'ish). Unfortuantely, I have missed out on the zero percent financing the had until the end of last year. The only real complaint I have seen is that it is too small. Obviously that does not apply to my wants. Still a scoot may still be the way for me to go.
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Post by Wolfhound »

Greywolf, I did not take it as a criticism!!! You always pass on exellent info. I remember the side shifts from the 50s, always made more sense
to me for general riding. At that time I did not have a MC but sure wanted one. I did not realize that the change was made to meet #@! fed rules. It
figures.
I have been married to my present wife starting on our 26th year. She is
a Dr. and put a lot of guys back together during her internship who had wrecked. Oddly enough she bought my first scoot, a Tank 150, for me at
an auction and once she was convinced that I was a safe rider she never
objected to my collecting more. She actually likes the looks of the Stella!
Her interest is more into sports cars!!! Her fav at the moment is a 2001
Audi Quatro convertable.
What MC are you considering?? Thanks for the tip, I will check out Modern
Vespa.
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Post by graywolf »

Wolfhound wrote: What MC are you considering??
Suzuki TU250x. Not the kind of motorcycle you expect to find on the American market. Tuned as transportation rather than sport or profiling. Rather scooter like, in fact.
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Post by Wolfhound »

Nice looking bike. Looks like a real motorcycle, not a mishapen something
from outer space!!!! (I know!! I am still locked into the 40s/50s style of motorcycles.) Nothing wrong with the new styles but I would go for a bike that looked like the Suzuki tu250x, price is not too bad either. :roll:
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Post by Dooglas »

One contribution on the subject of motorcycles with hand shifts. As you may know, the Russian manufacturer Ural (IMZ) builds a line of sidecar motorcycles which are imported to the US. A shop in Salem, OR (Raceway Services) builds kits to convert them to right hand shift. There is a F-N-R kit (shifting from 1-4 still done with the left foot), and a 2 lever kit allowing all shifting to be done with the right hand (yes, the Ural has a reverse).
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Post by Wolfhound »

The F-N-R kit would be ideal for people like me. :wink:
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Post by graywolf »

I have been reading about the Ural on the web. Looks like a cheap substitute for a jeep. I think, that only the 2wd (you can kick the drive to the side car wheel in and out) has reverse. Seems to me that if there is a neutral there then it also probably has a PTO (power take off).

I think we have gotten pretty far off from Stella Scooters with this. So back to 4T's and sidecar rigs, how do there work out?
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Post by Wolfhound »

Regarding the Ural, you are spot on. I will know more about my plans
to transfe the hack over to the Stella after I meet with Floyd Grimm
at Vespa Marietta on Thursday and do a quick ride on the one he has for sale.
think the Stella4T would be a better tug for a hack than the 2T is but there
are many Stella 2Ts out there hauling hacks.
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Post by Dooglas »

graywolf wrote: I think, that only the 2wd (you can kick the drive to the side car wheel in and out) has reverse.
Both the rear wheel drive and the two wheel drive models have a reverse gear. The bike is heavy and rolling it backward uphill by pushing would be difficult in some circumstances.
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Post by Wolfhound »

Keep in mind that the Ural was a copy of the German BMW war trikes.
It saw extensive action in WW2. It performed as a great machine and has
changed very little in the last 73 years. Somewhat like the Stella 2T and
4T( see the sneaky way I got us back on the Stella track!!! :D )
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Post by Dooglas »

Certainly true that the original Ural M72 used in WW2 was a copy of the BMW R71. Not true that the bike has undergone no changes since however. The original M72 had a flat head side valve engine. The Ural for civilian use has had an overhead valve engine much like the BMW R65 for over 50 years. In the past ten years the Ural has undergone many upgrades to maintain a presence in the marketplace. The engine was upgraded in 2003. The bike now uses all Austriam-made Herzog cut gears. The brakes and suspension are made by Brembo. The alternator system is made by the Japanese company Denso. Most fasteners and "chromed" parts are now stainless and many of the bikes come with powder coating rather than paint. Unfortunately the price has also gone up as improvements have been implemented.

For all that, you have a point. The Ural remains a simple design built for riding at modest speeds. It is easy to work on and inexpensive to repair. The factory has a US office outside of Seattle where a full range of parts and asccessories are available. (and I suppose that means I got us off track again, but surely anyone who would enjoy a Stella hack would have some interest in a Ural as well)

Just to add some eye candy :wink: , here is mine.
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Post by Dooglas »

Actually, all my chatter on this thread has a point and it is related to the Stella 2T w/ Cozy sidecar. There are very few sidecar setups on the market that are actually bolt and go (or delivered set up) rather than requiring substantial custom work. The PX/Stella with the Cozy sidecar is one of them. The GT/GTS Vespa with Via by Texas Sidecar is another. The Royal Enfield with the large wheel Cozy sidecar is another. And the Ural is the fourth. For a long time H/D was also a sidecar builder but they dropped out about two years ago (and their rigs were nosebleed expensive in any case). Of these choices, I have ridden all of them and owned 3 of them at one time or another. The Stella (or PX 150) and Royal Enfield are quite underpowered for the weight and resistance of the sidecar setup (in my opinion). That means you can take your grandson for a ride around the block or your dog for a ride to the store, but you quickly get beyond the ability of the rig if you try to do too much more. The GTS/Via is the one scooter sidecar setup that I have ridden which has more capabilities (Texas Sidecars also provides custom sidecar setups for some Maxiscooters). Likewise, the Ural is the one factory sidecar setup still available that is well designed and capable for its intended purpose. Both have the drawbacks inherent in a sidecar setup and require some different riding skills. I do understand that one or more US companies are developing a mounting kit for the Cozy sidecar on the GT/GTS Vespa. If this becomes readily available, I think it would be another viable option.
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Post by graywolf »

Well, Dooglas, I guess you do know what you are talking about.

The closest I have actually been to a Ural is I saw one go by once, but I keep wondering if maybe I ought to trade my old S-10 Blazer for one before the brine they have been using on the roads here turn it into nothing but a pile of rust.

Common sense says to keep the Blazer for bad weather and when I need to carry a big load, and get a high MPG two wheeler like the Stella 4T (or that Suzuki) for running around. If I get to where I can no longer ride a two wheeler, it would then be time to add a hack.

Wolfhound, I am very interested in hearing what they say about transferring your Cozy to the Stella.
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Post by Wolfhound »

Sorry to be so long in answering, Greywolf. My online setup was hacked and
it took 4 days to clean it up. Working fine now. Had a good visit last Friday with Floyd at Vespa Marietta. He has been riding the Stella/sidecar back and
forth to work some and he recomends that I get a 2013 TS Vespa 300 as
a tug for my type of riding. He says 45 is about it with the Stella. 6 Grand plus tax is a bit too rich for my pocket book right now but I might shoot for
the Vespa later on. My TGB R9i tug runs 45-55 so for now I will stick with it.
I am going to sell the two TGB Deliverys, keep my IckyBear trike for mail
box runs, and break in the Stella for a regular ride. This seems to be the more sensable approach. Floyd and his wifes daily rides are Stellas. He has
a trailer hooked to his. So it is safe to say that he is a Stella fan.
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Post by Wolfhound »

Correction. GTS300 Vespa, not TS.. If I am not mistaken Scooterworks
carries scooter mounting part for the Stella and the GTS300. Both are
the same design, steel panels and frame. I see a GTS300 in my future
some time but not now.
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Post by Dooglas »

Wolfhound wrote: If I am not mistaken Scooterworks carries scooter mounting part for the Stella and the GTS300.
As far as I am aware, Scooterworks only carries a mount suitable for attaching the Cozy sidecar to the Stella or the P/PX series Vespa. Up til now there has been no over the counter mount suitable for putting a Cozy on a GT/GTS Vespa available in the US. Supposedly Motoretta Atlanta has worked out a custom mount, but I have not seen one and can tell you nothing about it. American Scooter Center was also said to be working on a mounting kit but that one never seems to have happened.
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Post by Wolfhound »

I will get back to Floyd on this. He could be mistaken but this was my
understanding. No one thought that we could set up the TGB R9i
with the Cozy but we did it sucessfully. :roll:
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Post by Wolfhound »

Dooglas, I checked with Floyd this morning and he says he has talked to
Scooterworks and they only offer the mount for the Stella. They tell him that
they are working on a new mount but nothing concrete yet.
A mount can be 'custom made' as we did for the TGB R91 but I dont want to
go that route. Got lucky with the R9 but the GTS300 ie is a bit pricy to experiment with at this time.
Conclusion: Sell off my TGB Del 50 and 150, kep the R9i/Cozy for fun and
load carrying, the Stella for just fun riding the old fashioned way.
Thanks for helping me to get the down and dirty on this subject.
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Post by graywolf »

Actually there are several Vespa mounts available.

They seem all be a simple two-point mount. A torque tube welded to a plate that bolts to the center stand mount and holes in the floor pan. And a brace that bolts to the body up near the seat. I would guess that the only difference one for a GTS would have is a bigger plate to handle the increased power. The sidecars intended for scooters have a torque tube stub welded to the frame that the torque tube mount on the scooter bolts to.

Most motorcycles use a 4-point mount, plus a steering dampener. If the bike does not have a cradle frame, as sub-frame is also needed. All that stuff is held together by links and clamps. Altogether, much more complicated than mounting a sidecar to a scooter.

Kinda been studying on this, because in another ten years of so I probably will not be able to handle a two-wheeler.
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Post by Dooglas »

graywolf wrote:Actually there are several Vespa mounts available.
As I have said above, there are not a lot of Vespa mounts available if we are talking about the 250/300 GTS Vespa. The only one readily available in the US for the GTS at this point is the mount made by Texas Sidecar for their VIA sidecar. It does NOT mount in the way that the Cozy mount attaches to the Stella using a plate underneath and a brace to the bottom of the seat. It also does not incorporate a mount for a steering damper though some have added one after market. I am pretty familiar with the Texas setup as one is sitting in my garage. As I note above, there is no mount for attaching the Cozy sidecar to the GTS that is readily available in the US at this time, though a couple shops are rumored to be working on one. Centoallora in Italy does make a mount for the Cozy sidecar and the Vespa GTS, but no one imports it to the US. That is the state of things regarding modern Vespas as far as I know.

http://www.texassidecars.com/via_for_vespa.htm

http://www.centoallora.net/vespaGT.html
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Post by Wolfhound »

As always, Dooglas, thanks for the info. As I have said, I think I will just
enjoy what I have for the time being. I think the 300 would pull the Cozy
satisfactorily and I have been lucky with the TGB tug but both cost
and availability are major factors to be considered. :nerd:
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Post by Dooglas »

I agree. The 300 GTS and the Cozy sidecar should be a satisfactory set-up, but it is also a set-up that would require a significant investment ($8-9 thousand dollars). If your present set-up meets your current needs, ride and enjoy! :D
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Post by viney266 »

One thing I like about my Stella with the sidecar rig. 1o minutes, 5 bolts and I am back to a scooter...albeit a scooter with a goofy sidecar mount bolted under it, but it works just fine :)
Speed is only a matter of money...How fast do you want to go?
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Post by Wolfhound »

Viney, what kind of operating speeds are you getting with the Stella/hack
and what kind of gas milage? I have considered doing the same thing,
with my Stella and my side car but am not sure as to whether mph and mpg
would be worth it. Most of my riding is on rural secondary highways with
a fair amount of hills.
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Post by graywolf »

One of the problems I see with a 250cc+ scooter&sidecar or Royal Enfield&sidecar is that they do not make much economic sense. $6K + $3.5K + mount for the GTS & Cozy, $7K + $3.5K for the RE & Cosy. While the Ural T is $10K (If someone is mostly using it on the highway, my understanding is that you are better off without the 2wd), so it is actually cheaper than the much less capable rigs.

Of course, to some money is no objection. Sometimes you can run into a real bargain. And, DIY'ers have made sidecar rigs fairly cheaply. But in general, by the time you buy a bike, the sidecar, and pay for professional installation, you have an incredible amount of money invested. And from what I read, you can not even depend on the guy's installing it getting it set up correctly. Apparently very slight changes in set up can affect your top speed a lot.

Wolfhound, I would think that if you are a good driver, the Stella's manual transmission would be a benefit in the mountains.
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Post by Dooglas »

graywolf wrote:But in general, by the time you buy a bike, the sidecar, and pay for professional installation, you have an incredible amount of money invested. And from what I read, you can not even depend on the guy's installing it getting it set up correctly.
I agree that custom set-ups tend to be expensive (unless you are able to do most of the work yourself), and have some inherent performance risks. I also agree that the Ural is a very serviceable sidecar rig. The one place I disagree is the implication that we should all ride motorcycles because scooters cost too much. Many scooters are expensive - including GTS Vespas. Many people still ride them because they like their configuration and capabilities. In my experience, used motorcycles are always a better buy than scooters if we are simply talking most bang for the buck. But back to your point, there aren't many stock sidecar mounts available for motorcycles these days either.
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