In Praise of Small Scooters!

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:32 pm

I've spent most of the past couple months riding the BMW 600 Sport and 650 GT for a review I'm working on for Scooter File. Without going into too much detail (wait for the review!), they're both very well-engineered scooters that perform amazingly.

But I can't overstate my glee when, for the first time in about a month, I hopped on my Stella. Small, light, nimble. No, it can't blow away sportbikes at lights. But SO MUCH FUN. I was instantly reminded of everything I love about small scooters and motorcycles. Easy to back up, easy to park.

I took my Vespa out this weekend for the first time since mid-December. Same experience: JOY.

It's always been my attitude that the best scooter is the smallest one that meets all the rider's needs and criteria. I cannot understand why so many riders I know plopped down the big bucks for a new Vespa GTS or a maxiscooter despite the fact that they never ride on freeways or do any riding I can't do on a 150. Even worse, I've met several new riders in their 60s who bought Burgmans or other 500lb. + maxis because the thought they were somehow safer and easier to ride. I've also seen three riders in that age range trapped under their scooters when they dropped them and couldn't lift them—all when parking or pulling out of a driveway at low speeds.

I can't say that riding a 650cc bike with 15" wheels and a top speed north of 110mph hasn't got me thinking about buying something big and fast (and probably geared, you know, a motorcycle). And I have had CRAZY FUN riding these BMWs. So I'm as surprised as anyone that the experience has really affirmed my love for small scooters and bikes.

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:01 pm

I look forward to the review! I have read several others, and like the bike even though it's out of my price range for sure.

I've been thinking about one of the newer honda 500 series. It won't happen this year, or maybe next, but I wouldn't mind one. Maybe the 700 is a good choice too.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:17 pm

Well said, Eric - it's good to have the smallest scoot capable of hauling my bum around to the places I want to go.

Sigh - the principal scooter club in this burg has recently dropped all pretense of encouraging smaller scoots - you're welcome to ride with the maxis, but only if you can safely keep up. Heh.

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:22 pm

Come visit in Denver then, Pete! We tend to take smaller scoots where they don't belong and save the maxis for long distance rides (or up 14k mountains)

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:18 pm

Hey now. A GTS300 is a small scooter IMO (and well worth the $ if you ask me). Design and ride-wise, it easily falls into the Buddy/small scooter camp before the maxiscooter camp. It's plenty nimble in twisties and huge fun to ride wherever. To each their own, but there is a world of difference between a GTS and a maxiscooter like a Burgman for example.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:56 pm

Well put Eric! I am one of those that rides both. My commuter is a Burgman 650 Ex. My commute is 70 miles round trip at 70-80 mph...and it is legal to ride the HOV lanes solo and the Lexus lanes are free! When Bocette and I take a cross state trip two up it is the Burgman. Right now I'm over 35K miles on it...and that is with it sitting for a year while I was out of country. The Burgman is an incredible machine and I love it!

What do I ride for fun? Vintage Vespa! When I'm a little lazy I take the Buddy 161 or the 125...the smaller scooters are just too much fun! For the 2012 CBR I had the option of taking the 650 Ex but it seemed like it would be boring so I ran my kitted 67 GT 166 rat bike and it was a freaking blast!

I hasve been eyeing the 650 GT as I figure I have about 10K left on the Burgman before it is time to trade it. Well....maybe 8K since that is when I'll need a new rear tire!

Lokky · Post by **Lokky** » Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:58 pm

Eric, as you know I could have ridden the Buell instead of the Stella on my way to Amerivespa. The trip may have taken considerably longer but I may not have taken the same back roads and I would have lost out on at least half the fun of that trip!

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:32 am

Couldn't agree more. I can't say more motor would not be nice in some instances while urban commuting, but for the most part my small scooters are at least adequate for passing, splitting, and filtering. And oft times they are perfect.

The only reason I want a bigger bike is freeway use and certain occasions when "arriving" on a small scooter is somewhat....undesirable. Unless a nice, shiny Vespa of course. Some folks don't seem to understand scooters. Ride up on a MC and most understand what it is and what it does and why one might ride.

All that said I don't know what speed does for a bike, so I don't miss it. Sometimes I see gaps I want to shoot into and cars I want to pass but for acceleration I have to wait and pick my spots more carefully. So at those times I want something faster, but don't need over 250cc, I am sure. Even some mods might do the trick.

So why not "bigger is better?" Well I sat on some ordinary cycles at the MC show and felt like I was atop a horse and holding up boxes of bricks beneath me. I cannot imagine riding an MC as well as a small scooter in traffic. I see MC's wobble along while splitting lanes or not being able to split at all. Some cruisers simply cannot fit between the cars!

idk? Maybe I am wrong about this? And I was told by a rider recently who went from moped to scoot to small bike to big bike that a rider gets used to the weight and size, and the power makes up for it. But seeing the way some riders ride MC's, I have my doubts

edit: oh, and i have ruled out maxi scoot. when i go big, it will be a cycle

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:43 am

Wait... I'm confused. A bike with a 150cc engine is a "small" scooter?

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:47 am

not the size of the bike but how you ride it, i say

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:35 am

Skootz Kabootz wrote:Hey now. A GTS300 is a small scooter IMO (and well worth the $ if you ask me). Design and ride-wise, it easily falls into the Buddy/small scooter camp before the maxiscooter camp. It's plenty nimble in twisties and huge fun to ride wherever. To each their own, but there is a world of difference between a GTS and a maxiscooter like a Burgman for example.

Agreed! My point when I mentioned that was that I know people who buy them for riding that's no different than what they'd do on a 150. What's the point?

The GTSs are great scooters, but my feelings about riding one are pretty similar to what David (an awesome guy who rides with us) has had. He really misses his PX and has similar reactions to the bigger Vespas that I do. But, as you said, to each their own. I'm definitely not knocking the scooter!

For me, going big, I'd love something in the 650c-750cc range, but most maxiscooters bore the hell out of me and are too big. The Scarabeo 500 might be a decent compromise but I'd have to put one through a serious test ride first. But I think I could get much more bang for my buck getting a motorcycle. I think I know what I'm be most likely to buy at this point and I think my choice would surprise some people, but a purchase isn't in the cards at the moment.

TVB wrote:Wait... I'm confused. A bike with a 150cc engine is a "small" scooter?

Wait… I'm confused… Is your Buddy 50 smaller than a Buddy 150? Heck, Skootz is trying to claim a 300 is small!

Christophers · Post by **Christophers** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:47 am

ericalm wrote:
Skootz Kabootz wrote:Hey now. A GTS300 is a small scooter IMO (and well worth the $ if you ask me). Design and ride-wise, it easily falls into the Buddy/small scooter camp before the maxiscooter camp. It's plenty nimble in twisties and huge fun to ride wherever. To each their own, but there is a world of difference between a GTS and a maxiscooter like a Burgman for example.
Agreed! My point when I mentioned that was that I know people who buy them for riding that's no different than what they'd do on a 150. What's the point?

The GTSs are great scooters, but my feelings about riding one are pretty similar to what David (an awesome guy who rides with us) has had. He really misses his PX and has similar reactions to the bigger Vespas that I do.

LOL - What a great thread! I'm glad you brought the topic up, Eric. It turns out that I bought a really nice used Vespa GT200 the same week that Skoots picked up his GTS 300, but I ended up selling it for exactly the reasons that you hinted at in the OP. Whereas I wouldn't disagree with Skoots that the GT/GTS large frame Vespas are simply spectacular machines - I found that the GT200 was just too big for our tastes. We definitely felt like we lost a lot of the joy that makes scootering such fun for us. The extra mass and height, even of just the GT200, made a big difference in how the scooter felt to us and how we felt on the scooter. In the end I agree with your assessment that there is something really special about small scooters that you just don't get when you move up in size. In fact, I love the small scooter/motorcycle feel so much that the next bike that I'm eyeing is a SYM Wolf Classic 150.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:27 am

meh forget that Wolf Classic. check out what i spotted at my local coffee haunt today. looks like a daily rider to me!!

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:06 pm

I can totally sympathize with the "smaller scooter" mentality. After commuting daily on the Yager for a month straight, I swapped to the P200 for the ride to scooter fiesta. For the initial 10-15 miles of that ride, I kept thinking, "When the heck did this bike get so small? It feels like a smallframe!"

I think that a large part of that feeling had to do with the Yager's additional height, coupled with the taller instrument panel. The smaller scooter has less presence in the riders field of view and less mass to have to manage, so it is less intrusive and more intuitive to the rider.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:16 pm

i can appreciate scooters like the Yager and HD200. anything much bigger and i start to go "hmm," though

about a month ago i rolled up alongside an Aprilia Sport City at a light, too. looked nice and small for a 250. i like slender scooters if they have to be big(ger). not an ounce of fat on that thing

rsrider · Post by **rsrider** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:17 pm

I've also seen three riders in that age range trapped under their scooters when they dropped them and couldn't lift them

Help, I've fallen and I can't get up????

If you know that line, you're old........

Um, I like the Vespa 300 and would get one if I had the dosh (maybe used if I could find one around here). It's a proper scooter and not like the mega scoots at all. Also, Piaggio's MP3 is still a desirable scooter in my eyes.
Still, looking forward to a hands on review of the BMW's from you Eric. BMW entering this market segment is BIG news. And they wouldn't have done it if they didn't think they could make significant inroads.

phatch · Post by **phatch** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:30 pm

Couldn't agree more with the sentiment here. I love my MC, but when I hop on the Buddy, what a blast!

PeteH wrote:

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:42 am

Christophers wrote:In fact, I love the small scooter/motorcycle feel so much that the next bike that I'm eyeing is a SYM Wolf Classic 150.

YES. I enjoy the heck out of this bike. I just can't justify having a bunch of 125/150cc machines when there are so many other things I want to try.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:22 am

After I've been away from the scoot for a few weeks and on the MC, I always remember why the scoot is so much fun. The flickability alone makes it a fun ride. Although there is generally a period of adjustment ... such as hitting the brake hard when I thought I was depressing the clutch. Focus, focus, focus.

Rob

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:35 pm

Blurb from a Cycle World article I stumbled on this morning, about a writer used to big sportbikes getting back to basics on a '75 Honda CB200:

After riding not all that far, I realized that with every bike I’ve ridden in my life, from bored-out ’Busas to tricked-out Bimotas to full-race Yamaha R1s and everything in between, all I’ve been doing is trying to relive the visceral excitement of my first day on a motorcycle, that magic moment of turning a throttle and being effortlessly rushed into the wind, flying down the road breast to breeze, naked and powerful all at once like a superhero. Captain CB200! I’d been searching for it by racing, by riding bikes with huge horsepower, by going crazy speeds—trying to force the moment back with a ham fist when all it needed was a gentle twist on a little bike on a sunny day.

Yep.

Milt · Post by **Milt** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:03 am

Picking up a dropped bike requires a bit of finesse when the weight gets up there, but even a smaller person can pick up a large motorcycle with the correct technique. I can see how the maxi scooters could be a problem, because correct technique involves putting the bike in gear to stabilize it while lifting with your legs. It might be harder to lift one of those than a 700 pound MC.

I must say that I agree with Eric about small scooters. When I want to go scootering, I am looking to ride a scooter instead of a wanna-be motorcycle. The largest scooter that would appeal to me might be something along the lines of a Blur or SYM HD200.

For strictly urban use, a true scooter seems to be the best fit; in heavy traffic, I can get there just as fast on my 150cc scooter as I can on my 1450cc MC.

When I want to go big, the tank badge reads, 'Harley Davidson' - the Softail for long, lazy runs and visits a couple of states away or the Sportster for crooked road fun and the pure motorcycling experience.

KCScooterDude · Post by **KCScooterDude** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:18 am

Can't wait for the review, Eric. I hear you on the smaller bikes. I used to own a early '80s Suzuki GS550, and I much preferred it over my friend's GS1100. When I eventually graduate from nursing school I'm going to buy a new scoot, and lately I've been favoring a Vespa or maybe even a Honda PCX 150 over a Burgman, BMW or Silverwing. I can alway add a Bonneville or 883 later. Given the choice, I'd commute on the smaller scooter anyway.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:31 am

Milt wrote:Picking up a dropped bike requires a bit of finesse when the weight gets up there, but even a smaller person can pick up a large motorcycle with the correct technique. I can see how the maxi scooters could be a problem, because correct technique involves putting the bike in gear to stabilize it while lifting with your legs. It might be harder to lift one of those than a 700 pound MC.

I must say that I agree with Eric about small scooters. When I want to go scootering, I am looking to ride a scooter instead of a wanna-be motorcycle. The largest scooter that would appeal to me might be something along the lines of a Blur or SYM HD200.

For strictly urban use, a true scooter seems to be the best fit; in heavy traffic, I can get there just as fast on my 150cc scooter as I can on my 1450cc MC.

When I want to go big, the tank badge reads, 'Harley Davidson' - the Softail for long, lazy runs and visits a couple of states away or the Sportster for crooked road fun and the pure motorcycling experience.

pretty sure its taught to pick up a heavy bike a smaller / weaker person can stand back to bike, do a squat, and grab the bike somewhere neat the center or seat and lift with the knees / back into the kickstand position. just make sure the stand is down, of course

mc's don't sound like much fun. is going 100mph down the open highway fun or exciting? it does not sound like it. is riding around in gridlock on a 500 pound bike fun? does not sound like it. is dragging a knee on an empty canyon road fun? could be a challenge but meh. how about 0-60 in 2 sec? could be fun but would most likely get played out

i hate mc's!

KCScooterDude wrote:Can't wait for the review, Eric....

i hope eric trashes that behemoth

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:24 am

Milt wrote:Picking up a dropped bike requires a bit of finesse when the weight gets up there, but even a smaller person can pick up a large motorcycle with the correct technique. I can see how the maxi scooters could be a problem, because correct technique involves putting the bike in gear to stabilize it while lifting with your legs. It might be harder to lift one of those than a 700 pound MC..

No...a maxi scooter is much easier to pick up off someone than a MC. I've had to do it more than once. With the low CG it's not a big deal. When you lift it you just grab a brake lever with the grip...there is one on either side and many maxi scooters have parking brakes

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:29 am

JHScoot wrote:i hope eric trashes that behemoth

Why? I keep hearing small displacement scooter riders pissing and moaning that they don't get any respect but they're ready to sling shit at anyone else.

Ride what you like..like what you ride and leave everyone else the frak alone

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:35 am

don't worry BuddyRaton i am somewhat tongue in cheek online. no need to get bent outta shape...

Milt · Post by **Milt** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:46 am

JHScoot,

To each his/her own...

Actually, I almost never ride that much over the speed limit any more (unless the road has lots of good curves); that's why I ride Harleys instead of crotch-rockets in this stage of my life. My 520 pound Sportster is delightfully agile in heavy traffic and the 670 pound Softail is no slouch, but the scooter works just as well for that and is more convenient.

"mc's don't sound like much fun." At the risk of coming across as a smart-ass, I must ask, have you actually tried a good motorcycle? It isn't really about how fast you can go or how many knee pads you can wear out (been there, done that), but simply a different form of the two wheeled experience.

I started out on motorcycles and came rather late to scooters. Despite my original prejudice, I discovered that the silly little things are actually a lot of fun. Give the dark side a try - you just might find those big nasty motorcycles are fun, also.

In any case, keep the shiny side up and don't forget to have fun.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:30 am

no, i have never rode a mc. well once to learn shifting but it was slow riding and OK. thats why i say they don't sound like much fun. i have only started to ride scooters 2 and 1/2 years ago so i merely speculate what it might be like from reading and talking to others. and they don't sound like much "fun" to this scooterist. but i don't ride for "fun" anyway. although riding can be and is often. maybe i should say for my kind of riding they don't seem to have many advantages besides acceleration in some instances. so when i read "bigger, heavier, not as agile" it makes me think "wtf a mc for, then?" speaking for myself, of course. and i always read posts like "rode my mc for a month did not realize how much more fun my scooter is 'til i hopped back on." and i don't write those posts, people with years of experience on both do. so it makes me not look forward to getting one as much. which i will be doing b4 years end for freeway use. but it is starting to seem more like a need then a true desire

on the other hand it heartens me to read you find your big bikes agile in traffic, and i think it may just come down to acclimation. what may sound big and heavy and seem big and heavy when i first ride my own may become more or less just like my scooters in feel and riding style over time. just a matter of experience, perhaps? i do know i was splitting lanes recently in heavy traffic and could get through it while big bikes were stuck in it. THAT is a huge disadvantage and would frustrate the heck out of me. and yes it makes me wonder 'why ride THAT?' to myself, of course. as you said, "to each its own." idc what people ride, i just want to work some of this out before my purchase

i am a big guy so no "starter bike" for me. its gonna have a full size frame w/e it is. i just want to look forward to it, not dread it. so, other then speed i am searching for positives in all the apparent cons

when i said i hope the Admin trashes the BIG scooter i wasn't serious. its just sometimes other posters....even if your post is not directed at them, are

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:23 pm

One of the first things I recognized when I started riding scooters is that 2-wheeled vehicles are like clothes/outfits — you need the appropriate one for the appropriate occasion. I figure I need 3 minimum to cover my various most common riding circumstance (city scooter, touring scooter, and a motorcycle — I could easily add four or five more to this list) but alas for now I must get by with just my Buddy and my GTS (I am hardly complaining).

All these different 2-wheel rides are wonderful but to say one is less/more/better/worse than another is like saying shorts are better than long pants, t-shirts are better than sweaters, jeans better than a tuxedo — they are all the best when they are appropriate for what the occasion calls for. It is folly to think otherwise.

As for my Buddy vs my GTS, I love them both. Some days one is the best, some days the other. It doesn't matter, it's not a contest, they are both perfect. To favor one over the other misses the point entirely. Certainly one can perhaps be a jeans and t-shirt person moreso than a shirt and tie person (or vice versa), but you wouldn't want to be caught without either in your wardrobe.

Sadly for me, my Buddy has been sitting idle at NoHo for coming up on 5 months now waiting to have a gear oil leak repaired. It kills me to not have it given I rode it daily for the past four years and all I so regularly would depend on it for. I am very much looking forward to slipping in to that familiar and comfortable Buddy attire when I get it back next week. But I am also very glad I now have a choice and no longer am forced to ride it when the occasion may not be appropriate.

Vive la différence.

KCScooterDude · Post by **KCScooterDude** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:44 pm

Motorcycles and scooters. Both are fun. I have a Blur, which rides different than most scooters I've been on, but I will say I do enjoy the scooter around town much more than a motorcycle. On the open road, there's nothing like big wheels and plenty of displacement for cruising along at highway speeds. Different, but, both fun.

Southerner · Post by **Southerner** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:54 am

JHScoot wrote:.........................I am a big guy so no "starter bike" for me. its gonna have a full size frame w/e it is. i just want to look forward to it, not dread it. so, other then speed i am searching for positives.......

I find that cruiser bikes in the 650 to 950 class are very big-boned and although the 750 Shadow is pretty small, the others, including the Yamaha 650, will fit a large person quite well. They are not especially light to me but the larger ones are much worse. The 650 Yammer is pretty cheap on the used market and would make a good starter for a larger person. Of course, to me a real ideal starter bike is a 250cc offroad bike and lessons are best first learned in a pasture instead of the public streets. Then again, I first started riding in the 70s.

As to maxis, my present bike is pretty close to the same thing except I have to shift, which to me is not a chore. I would like to get a simpler, lighter standard and even the new Honda 500 twins have at least the same hp as my old 800 and weigh about 2/3 as much.

Rusty Shackleford · Post by **Rusty Shackleford** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:14 am

There's a saying in the MC world I'm sure many of you know: "It's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to to ride a fast bike slow". There's a lot of truth in that.

On a slow bike, you ride almost as hard as you want and not only will you not kill yourself, you won't even get a ticket. This has been the case with my lady riding the Buddy 125 and me following her on my CBR250R. We can get out into the country and she can run the Buddy wide open and cruise a solid 60mph. If a car in front of us is only doing 50mph, she'll just pass them keep rollin'. It's funny to see her do it on that little bike, but she's well within what speeds other people are driving. In the twisties, she scares the hell out of me when she finds out exactly what "taking a corner too hot" is. Most roads like that are 45mph with reduced speed warnings in the turns.

What we've found is, the more miles you put on a smaller displacement bike, the more fun you realize it is. Revving the hell out of it and carrying corner speed on a light weight bike feels a lot safer than it otherwise would. I know the Buddy isn't a hot rod or anything, but there's something really fun about being able to run a bike that hard and not have to worry about whether you'll live to tell about it.

KCScooterDude · Post by **KCScooterDude** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:59 am

JHScoot wrote:
i am a big guy so no "starter bike" for me. its gonna have a full size frame w/e it is. i just want to look forward to it, not dread it.(

You might be surprised. I used to go about 320 and my 550cc Suzuki was plenty to get up to Interstate speeds. A Ninja 250r is a lot of fun, even at that weight.

Southerner · Post by **Southerner** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:17 pm

And the choices in smaller stuff are increasing. KTM now produces a 390cc single with a surprising HP figure that's very light in weight. As it's produced by the parent company, Bajaj, the price is supposed to be reasonable.

It would be nice to see motorcycles and scooters for reasonable prices again.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:26 pm

Great discussion Eric. I just got back from several weeks of riding a Suzuki S40 in SW Florida. Loved the endless summer and enjoyed riding with motorcycle buddies. Got back yesterday, though, and hopped on the Buddy for a ride around town. As you say, it reminded me what I love about quick, small scooters.

Milt · Post by **Milt** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:52 pm

"What we've found is, the more miles you put on a smaller displacement bike, the more fun you realize it is. Revving the hell out of it and carrying corner speed on a light weight bike feels a lot safer than it otherwise would. I know the Buddy isn't a hot rod or anything, but there's something really fun about being able to run a bike that hard and not have to worry about whether you'll live to tell about it."

Revving the hell out of it is an excellent way to use up an engine. That is why I prefer big engines in motorcycles - you can go as fast as you want or should without frying the engine. At highway speed, a larger displacement bike can deliver fuel economy that rivals a smaller one. You also have a much larger power reserve for safely passing slow cars.

It isn't the bike's weight or power that gets you mangled or dead in corners; your body gets the same punishment if you wipe out on a small bike as it will on a big bike. While fast cornering might 'feel' safer on a small bike, it is not.

Rusty Shackleford · Post by **Rusty Shackleford** » Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:22 pm

The fuel economy claim is just not true. 70mpg on a CBR250R vs 40mpg on a CBR600RR are night and day different, even on the highway. Also regarding cornering, lightweight bikes are much easier to handle, hence the term "flickability" everyone uses. Also, I have very little concern running higher RPM's. Small bikes can still give the fun of performance riding, just in more manageable amounts. Smaller bikes are much, much better suited for that riding style (safer) off the track than say, a GSXR1000. I'm saying I agree with the idea of riding the smallest displacement needed to get the job done, just for a different reason is all. Even in the case of the Buddy 125 having a top speed of 60mph, having to work for it a little bit is part of the fun.

Milt · Post by **Milt** » Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:34 pm

My Sportster 1200 gets around 60 mpg on the back roads here in Colorado and my 88 inch (1450cc) Softail will do around 50 mpg. A big engine in a bike of reasonable weight (the Sportster is 517 pounds wet) doesn't work very hard, but it has large reserves on tap for emergencies. That middle size Honda you mentioned is tuned to make maximum power for its displacement and is a gas hog compared to a Harley in a mild state of tune. Both of my bikes give poor showings at the drag strip, but a twist of the throttle gives an immediate response, without requiring two or three downshifts - much safer for a sudden evasive maneuver or to get around a slow car.

You really need to disabuse yourself of that 'safety' idea in corners; it just isn't so. Once you come off the bike at speed, your surprisingly fragile body takes the hits that matter.

However, as I said before, to each his or her own.

Mutt the Hoople · Post by **Mutt the Hoople** » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:08 pm

i love my Buddy 50 as well as my Vespa GTV 250. I find myself riding the Vespa more... even in the city. Because Saint Louis has ABYSMAL roads. Bumps that would throw me from my Buddy are no biggie on the Vespa. I did miss the agility at first, but I practice in parking lots after hours and can do some pretty intricate maneuvers. I also do get on highways, and I will ride on the interstates during non-rush hour times. The Vespa has all but replaced my car. But it's funny. To me. the Buddies and the Vespas are what the essence of what riding a scooter is all about. I took the class, I can ride a motorcycle, I can shift.... but it is nowhere near as fun... and I love right in the city. Scooters are great for city riding... perfect. I go to The Hill all of the time, get groceries etc. I never go there in my car. The streets are narrow, parking is a bitch... but the scooter is perfect. Ironically, our scooter club here in Saint Louis is pretty anti-small scooter. They get absolutely snarky regarding Buddies, and they are not a whole lot better regarding even the large frame Vespas. Mine will do about 90mph. I really see no need to go faster. But they like the super scooters... the BarcaLoungers on wheels. I think there is something MAJOR wrong when a Vespa is not particularly welcome in a Scooter club. Frankly, if I wanted something bigger, it would not be a maxi-scooter. I'd go for a Bonneville. I cant even get my feet on the ground on some of those maxis.

Oh, and I had an interesting conversation on a plane yesterday coming back from LA. The guy next to me saw some of the pics I was editing and saw my scooter. He said he has a Harley. How he likes to get out on the open roads. I said I understand, I love to do the same. He told me how dangerous that was on a scooter.

... I'm still laughing

Rusty Shackleford · Post by **Rusty Shackleford** » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:11 pm

Milt wrote:You really need to disabuse yourself of that 'safety' idea in corners; it just isn't so. Once you come off the bike at speed, your surprisingly fragile body takes the hits that matter.

However, as I said before, to each his or her own.

Well sure, if you come off the bike, obviously. I'm saying that lighter, less powerful bikes are more forgiving and much easier to initiate turns with than heavier and/or more powerful ones, not to mention a miscalculated throttle roll-on won't put you in the ditch the way it would on a supersport. Same reason that a CBR1000RR is a terrible beginner's bike. I totally understand what you're saying in the event of a crash though. You're right, it doesn't make a difference at that point. You're also right about supersports having incredibly poor fuel efficiency per displacement. That's why I got the 70mph 250 single.

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:36 pm

Rusty Shackleford wrote:
Milt wrote:You really need to disabuse yourself of that 'safety' idea in corners; it just isn't so. Once you come off the bike at speed, your surprisingly fragile body takes the hits that matter.

However, as I said before, to each his or her own.
Well sure, if you come off the bike, obviously. I'm saying that lighter, less powerful bikes are more forgiving and much easier to initiate turns with than heavier and/or more powerful ones, not to mention a miscalculated throttle roll-on won't put you in the ditch the way it would on a supersport. Same reason that a CBR1000RR is a terrible beginner's bike. I totally understand what you're saying in the event of a crash though. You're right, it doesn't make a difference at that point. You're also right about supersports having incredibly poor fuel efficiency per displacement. That's why I got the 70mph 250 single.

You know, I'm wondering about that. If the two bikes have two different masses, wouldn't the one with the larger mass impart more energy into your "dismount" at any given speed? Just curious.

Mutt the Hoople · Post by **Mutt the Hoople** » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:02 pm

PeteH wrote:Well said, Eric - it's good to have the smallest scoot capable of hauling my bum around to the places I want to go.

Sigh - the principal scooter club in this burg has recently dropped all pretense of encouraging smaller scoots - you're welcome to ride with the maxis, but only if you can safely keep up. Heh.

I don't even bother looking at their site anymore. Seems pretty pointless. And they are not particularly nice regarding their attitude either. Keep up, (my ass))... I rode all of the way to Hannibal by myself.... oh, and about how many motorcycles sharing the road on that gorgeous and sunny day. Yeah, right... keep up with ME... instead of taking all the fried chicken breaks LOL. No wonder they need maxis.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:27 pm

charlie55 wrote:You know, I'm wondering about that. If the two bikes have two different masses, wouldn't the one with the larger mass impart more energy into your "dismount" at any given speed? Just curious.

Do you mean would one of them throw you harder than the other? No. Once you leave the seat, your momentum is solely based on your own mass. Where the larger mass could hurt you more is either from the greater difficulty overcoming its intertia to stop or turn it, or the greater mass crushing you when come between it and the pavement or another object.

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:32 pm

TVB wrote:
charlie55 wrote:You know, I'm wondering about that. If the two bikes have two different masses, wouldn't the one with the larger mass impart more energy into your "dismount" at any given speed? Just curious.
Do you mean would one of them throw you harder than the other? No. Once you leave the seat, your momentum is solely based on your own mass. Where the larger mass could hurt you more is either from the greater difficulty overcoming its intertia to stop or turn it, or the greater mass crushing you when come between it and the pavement or another object.

Thanks for clearing that up. Jeez, seems I'm forgetting everything I ever learned.

jdanderson1449 · Post by **jdanderson1449** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:45 am

http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html

Read this, I don't care if you like motorcycles or scooters more, just read it.
Hunter S. Thompson has always done something for me.

This article is a good representation of why some of us choose motorcycles. The first line says it all.

I have a scooter and a motorcycle. I ride them the way I feel that Hunter rides in this article. When you finish reading this article, watch On Any Sunday, Fastest, Brittown, and Choppertown. Then watch Quadrophenia.

There are a million and one aspects of the motorcycling or scootering culture and we all choose it for different reasons but we should all appreciate it for what it is. One less car on the road, just sayin'.

DanteG · Post by **DanteG** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:37 am

My Burgman 400S is great for touring, small enough to handle in town, big enough to take highways .... it's also far more comfortable for long rides.

My Buddy is just plain ole fun. There is no easier scoot to ride.

It's been said that it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. That statement has never been more applicable.

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:58 am

jdanderson1449 wrote:http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html

What a great read!! Thanks for posting!

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:28 pm

avonpirate · Post by **avonpirate** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:07 pm

JHscoot .

what were those saddlebags made of that on the scoot whose pic you posted?? Looks like something like that might help with my commute to work. Any ideas of where I could shop for the right size paniers for my Buddy 125????

Modern Buddy

In Praise of Small Scooters!

In Praise of Small Scooters!

Re: In Praise of Small Scooters!