Scared to death

3angieyou · Post by **3angieyou** » Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:20 am

About a year ago I sold my 2006 buddy that I had been riding since they first came out. The ease and comfort of a buddy was amazing. I instantly fell in love and comfortable on two wheels. A loss of a job eventually forced me to sell my beloved buddy in late 2011. After moving and securing a stable amazing job, I decided to enter the two wheel world once again....this time on a stella. And I'm scared to death. The ease of a twist and go is no longer beneath me. Though I currently drive a manual speed car, I am uncomfortable on the stella. I easily mastered the shifting but down shifting seems to scare the shit out of me and I fumble with gears, new braking system and what appears to be a heavier bike despite the numbers that I have read. With only 9 miles on the new stella I feel a stong urge to trade her in for a buddy. I had so wanted to love the stella and eventually enter in to the side car world but I am unsure at this point if I can make it. I love my two wheel life and don't want to be too scared to ride this summer (or lack thereof here in Ohio). Please tell me it gets easier ?!?

Ps. Formerly known under the username angieyou3 back on the modern buddy early days. Dent have the patience to reactivate.

magnato1 · Post by **magnato1** » Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:34 am

Angie, it'll get better. 9 miles is definitely not enough time to get used to the Stella, or any bike. I come from a long history of riding dirt bikes and thus I am very familiar with shifting and braking on a motorcycle, and at first I was pretty leery of the Stella also. I too came from a lighter and far easier to ride twist and go (Cali Classic) and I was not particularly enjoying the Stella at first, but stick with it, practice and you'll learn to love her charm. Good luck, and welcome to the club.

Jeff

Drum Pro · Post by **Drum Pro** » Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:22 am

I say stick with it. Soon it will be second nature to down shift. However I do think the Buddy is a better bike in all catagories except looks. The Stella hates the cold so you have to warm the engine, it's slower if left stock, and has all the areodynamics of a brick. But that's it's beauty it's based on 40 year old technoligy. The Buddy has all mod cons....

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:44 am

^^^ o true, that transmission you are getting used to has none of the modern transmission bits in it. It takes a little time, you will get it, go for a good ride and enjoy. Also, after the first service a good shop will change the oil and adjust the cables and it will improve. There is a little bit of break -in on a new Stella.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:52 am

A Buddy and a Stella are two totally different riding experiences. Shifting is probably one of the least differences. They accelerate, brake, handle differently. You just can't compare the two except to say that they are very very different!

I don't think one is better than the other...but they are different.

The transmission on a Stella is primitive. There are no synchros like on a modern manual car. That doesn't mean it's bad...but it's clunky...sounds like it's tearing itself apart. It takes some practice...but works very well.

So basically you have a lot of differences between a Buddy and a Stella. I agree with above...practice some more, get more comfortable with it and see if it is the right scooter for you.

If you give it an honest chance and it's not for you then hey...you gave it a shot...nothing wrong with going back to a Buddy or some other TNG if that's what you are comfortable with.

Hang in there and keep us updated...

And a big welcome back to scootering and MB! We missed you!

fisher1 · Post by **fisher1** » Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:10 pm

hey...you gave it a shot...nothing wrong with going back to a Buddy or some other TNG if that's what you are comfortable with.

I completely agree. A scoot is a scoot ... different people prefer different ones, that's why so many different ones are made.

Ride the one you enjoy the most & feel comfortable with - no problem! I like my Stella but have ridden a TGB-R9 150 and thought that was a serious hoot too!

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:03 pm

The Stella is a quirky ride and not for everyone. Its true classic features call to some but not to all. I confess that, while I ride motorcycles, I find the manual transmission of the Stella, and the PX Vespas, clunky and awkward in use. Hence, I ride Buddys and modern Vespas

. Sure, give it a go but, in the end, ride what you enjoy.

KABarash · Post by **KABarash** » Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:28 pm

BuddyRaton wrote:
If you give it an honest chance and it's not for you then hey...you gave it a shot...nothing wrong with going back to a Buddy or some other TNG if that's what you are comfortable with.

Hang in there and keep us updated...

And a big welcome back to scootering and MB! We missed you!

Stick with it, yet remember there's nothing wrong with changing your mind either.
Sure, the Stella is a different beast altogether, although I've been driving manual shift cars for 35+ years and have the ability to drive a manual shift motorcycle or scooter, I chose a Buddy over the 'drop dead sexy looks' of the Stella just because I didn't want to shift while riding.

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:03 pm

I started off with a Stella 4T, loved every thing about it but traded it in
on a Buddy 170i. Not the Stellas fault but I would end up with a sore
wrist and a stiff elbow every time I rode it. My old friend Arther Ritus
talked me into the trade.
I agree with BuddyRaton. Give it a fair chance before you decide to trade it
in. It is a classic design and can pull any grade you put it on. But it is like driving a '36 Ford coupe, 3 in the floor, compared to a modern Lincoln Town Car.

slotrod65 · Post by **slotrod65** » Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:59 am

I also have a brand new Stella 4T. I just took the MSF class and am back into riding 2 wheels after a 15 tear hiatus. Back then I rode small motorcycles.

Freaked out: I completely understand what you are talking about. On my first ride on the Stella, I skidded the rear wheel each time I downshifted. I thought I was going 45 mph, and when I glanced at the speedo was barely going 20. The breaking, especially the rear, seemed heavy handed and imprecise, and the steering felt all twitchy. Of course, shifting sounded clunky as all heck, and I kept missing second. I was totally freaked out as well.

Last week it rained here almost all week, so I worked on the scoot, adding accessories, and going over everything I could (tire pressure, oil level and stuff.) Everything checked out fine.

Then I read the owner's manual. Page 24 (shifting instructions) struck me, so I translated the suggested top speeds for each gear. That helped a LOT: 1st gear lists 6 mph max, 2nd 10 mph, 3rd 25. I realized that due to gearing, the Stella runs at a higher rpm than a motorcycle for many equivalent speeds.

As soon as it was sunny, I took the Stella out for a spin in a residential area where I could ride with almost no traffic around me. I used what I had learned and got right out of first, then from 2nd to third almost as fast. I found that 3rd is golden territory for basic neighborhood and city streets. I also practiced downshifting, especially rolling the throttle up a bit before releasing the clutch. This increases the motor speed to match the rpm it needs to go to fit the lower gear. I practiced my braking as well, each time learning how the Stella reacts to different braking situations.

After riding around for about an hour, I feel much more comfortable driving especially shifting, downshifting and braking. I just needed the practice.

My advice: find a place to ride around for a while. Take your time, get used to the way the Stella drives, handles, shifts and brakes.

I am totally loving mine!

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:21 am

When downshifting, try blipping the throttle on downshifts. When you pull the clutch in for downshift, momentarily open/close the throttle as you shift to the lower gear, then ease the clutch out. It'll get the engine and gear speeds closer together and make the gear change smoother. Practice in a straight line until the throttle blip become part of your downshift routine to make things less confusing.

If you're downshifting for a stop, you could also just clutch in before the engine stumbles and shift to neutral once stopped. I know some local Stella riders who will not engine brake or downshift while stopping so they can focus on the braking.

One point about the brakes: the Stella rear drum is pretty big and the cable that operates it is pretty thick. The upshot of this is that it's a bit touchy to aggressive pedal pressure. The cable can be adjusted somewhat, or you could try pressing hard on it while stopped with the engine off to stretch the cable a little. That might make it less touchy. Also, try applying the rear brake before applying the front brake, it won't lock up so easily.

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:25 am

I've ridden with a 4T several times now and yes, first and second are short-legged. Third gear almost matches perfectly with the second gear on my P200. The torque produced is where a 4T shines, but you have to shift a bit more often. First is almost a granny low gear!

Y'all would be horrified to hear the engine on my old P when I put the spurs to her. I'll rev it to 6K RPM easily, thanks to a good air filter and mild performance exhaust, topping 20 in first, pulling 35 in second and 50 in third! Top gear can be pushed to 70 in optimal conditions. The two-stroke doesn't make the torque of a four-stroke, but you can sure rev the crap out of them!

I hope to mess with the gearing in my buddy's 4T soon. I believe the engine has a lot of potential that been shacked in exchange for high fuel economy. As nice as 140 MPG sounds, I'd trade some efficiency for more flexible gearing and a higher cruising speed.

Lokky · Post by **Lokky** » Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:22 pm

slotrod65 wrote:
Then I read the owner's manual. Page 24 (shifting instructions) struck me, so I translated the suggested top speeds for each gear. That helped a LOT: 1st gear lists 6 mph max, 2nd 10 mph, 3rd 25.

Just to specify the manual lists these as limits while the bike is getting broken in.

After break-in on my 2T you can push third gear to around 45 before you need to shift to 4th.

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:24 pm

One of the early lessons I learned on the Stella is that tens of thousands of miles on my auto scooters had solidified some bad riding habits. It's not that the Stella is necessarily harder to ride, it's just much less forgiving of inattention and error.

The shifting, as others have said, comes with practice and patience. It's not that hard: for about 50 years (almost) every scooterist who learned to ride did so on a shifty! And look at the motorcyclists out there — it's not as if they're all endowed with some special skill or dexterity.

The stuff to watch for on the Stella — especially if you're used to a Buddy — is going to be more in the braking and handling areas. Here's one tip: Take it easy on the rear brake pedal and don't "cover" it with your foot (as you would with a group brake by placing your hand over it) unless you're actually braking. I dropped once just due to inadvertently coming down on that brake pedal while bending down to switch to my reserve fuel. This is the kind of sloppiness I mentioned above.

I used to lock up that rear brake all the time, frequently skidding to stops!

Tip #2: If your Stella came with the original stock whitewalls, replace them ASAP. They're rather soft and slick and it'll be easier to learn on better rubber.

3angieyou · Post by **3angieyou** » Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:33 pm

You guys have been an amazing in feedback and it is much appreciated, especially the tips on downshifting, speeds to shift at, etc. That clicked in my brain for whatever reason. Yesterday, with a break in weather (small but good enough) I took her out for a 10 mile ride on the side streets practicing shifting and breaking. Downshifting is still quite a mystery to me, but I think I will get the handle of it eventually. Thanks for the suggestion of "blipping"...it makes sense in my head but who knows if I can do it when it comes time. I plan on going out for another practice run tonight. I like the idea of not downshifting so as to concentrate on breaking. I think that has been my most feared point because I felt like I was constantly doing 50 things while coming to a stop. Much different than my old TNG. It has become apparent that I did become sloppy and lazy while riding the buddy. I can remember times where I would be on a peaceful ride through the metroparks and completely zone out. NOT GOOD! The Stella does not allow for this at all. All in all I'm gonna give her a fair shot and see what comes out of it. If I end up trading in at least I am back to riding on two wheels again. It felt good!

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:54 pm

Eric always gives good advise as do the others on this forum.

magnato1 · Post by **magnato1** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:29 am

ericalm wrote:

Tip #2: If your Stella came with the original stock whitewalls, replace them ASAP. They're rather soft and slick and it'll be easier to learn on better rubber.

I didn't even think of this, but yes, change the tires ASAP. They're so sloppy. When I put my Heidenaus on, it was literally night and day, suddenly the Stella had serious footing and I felt far more comfortable laying her into turns and braking.

magnato1 · Post by **magnato1** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:32 am

az_slynch wrote:
I hope to mess with the gearing in my buddy's 4T soon. I believe the engine has a lot of potential that been shacked in exchange for high fuel economy. As nice as 140 MPG sounds, I'd trade some efficiency for more flexible gearing and a higher cruising speed.

Please do this! I definitely agree with you about the gearing, and it would be awesome if someone came up with something that gives a better range. I'd tackle it myself, but I don't know squat about gearing. Keep us posted,

.

DCUNITED4LIFE · Post by **DCUNITED4LIFE** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:37 pm

If the inside of a 4T Stella is similar to the old cases one would be able to throw an upgear kit on that at 8% thereby increasing ones overall top speed. I have no idea what the cush drive on a Stella 4t is like but if it is anything like the old Stella (Vespa is the same) then yes it is possible to get a higher top speed.

http://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-P ... /M-67-5235

In regards to the comments about shifting a 2T Stella or PX for that matter, try shifting a vintage vespa. 2T Stella's and PX scoots have an EFL transmission. Without getting into technical details, the lifespan of the cruciform is vastly extended and the smoothness of the shifting is increased over a vintage bike.....

My old P200 trans would "clunk" into first hard and beat you up the rest of the way....just got a PX200 tranny dropped in there after the Indian Stella one I had ate doo doo when the selector rod came unscrewed and the cruciform shredded my gears...doh

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:24 pm

az_slynch wrote:I've ridden with a 4T several times now and yes, first and second are short-legged. Third gear almost matches perfectly with the second gear on my P200. The torque produced is where a 4T shines, but you have to shift a bit more often. First is almost a granny low gear!

Y'all would be horrified to hear the engine on my old P when I put the spurs to her. I'll rev it to 6K RPM easily, thanks to a good air filter and mild performance exhaust, topping 20 in first, pulling 35 in second and 50 in third! Top gear can be pushed to 70 in optimal conditions. The two-stroke doesn't make the torque of a four-stroke, but you can sure rev the crap out of them!

I hope to mess with the gearing in my buddy's 4T soon. I believe the engine has a lot of potential that been shacked in exchange for high fuel economy. As nice as 140 MPG sounds, I'd trade some efficiency for more flexible gearing and a higher cruising speed.

P200 tree and 23 tooth MMW clutch?

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:31 pm

Stock cylinder with a re-profiled head. Not enough "ooorah" to need a hot clutch setup. Still running the stock basket and drive plate, just fitted with new stock springs and the Malossi plate set. Just wanted to make sure that the clutch wouldn't slip when cruising in 4th.

Lokky · Post by **Lokky** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:35 pm

The next time my engine needs to be stripped down I am putting P200 gears in it since my kit reportedly pulls the same HP as a stock 200

Also +1 on swapping to heidenau, fantastic tires!

JohnKiniston · Post by **JohnKiniston** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:42 pm

I've got a Atomic Fireball edition Stella with P200 Gears, We ended up swapping to a T5 4th gear so I could accelerate in 4th.

It's fun to have a Stella that can out accelerate P200's and Fly up hills.

DCUNITED4LIFE · Post by **DCUNITED4LIFE** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:53 pm

Lokky wrote:The next time my engine needs to be stripped down I am putting P200 gears in it since my kit reportedly pulls the same HP as a stock 200

Also +1 on swapping to heidenau, fantastic tires!

I took the gears out of your wrecked Stella from dogwood last year and put them in my P200. Granted it wasn't "your" motor but they should be the same. I counted teeth and they were the same from the wrecked motor as my P200 was. No need to do this unless you want to change from the Indian EFL gears to the Euro ones. (PX).

You could do an upgear though on the christmas tree...and get more top speed.

So if your kitted bike is the same HP as a P200 my overbored P200 I should dust you when I get it back this weekend, right?

DCUNITED4LIFE · Post by **DCUNITED4LIFE** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:54 pm

JohnKiniston wrote:I've got a Atomic Fireball edition Stella with P200 Gears, We ended up swapping to a T5 4th gear so I could accelerate in 4th.

It's fun to have a Stella that can out accelerate P200's and Fly up hills.

LOKKY, you can do this ^^^^

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:54 pm

az_slynch wrote:Stock cylinder with a re-profiled head. Not enough "ooorah" to need a hot clutch setup. Still running the stock basket and drive plate, just fitted with new stock springs and the Malossi plate set. Just wanted to make sure that the clutch wouldn't slip when cruising in 4th.

Don't forget to scuff up the metal plates!

Stitch · Post by **Stitch** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:39 pm

JohnKiniston wrote:I've got a Atomic Fireball edition Stella with P200 Gears, We ended up swapping to a T5 4th gear so I could accelerate in 4th.

It's fun to have a Stella that can out accelerate P200's and Fly up hills.

It sure does make a Stella more roadworthy.

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Fri May 03, 2013 7:01 pm

JohnKiniston wrote:I've got a Atomic Fireball edition Stella with P200 Gears, We ended up swapping to a T5 4th gear so I could accelerate in 4th.

It's fun to have a Stella that can out accelerate P200's and Fly up hills.

He forgot to mention that the cylinder is a Polini 177 on 2nd overbore (63.4mm) and it's teamed up with a 60mm Mazzuchelli stroker crank for 190cc's of thump. He's also picking fights with a late model, low compression 10hp P200 which was still stone-stock at the time. The P was still 2mph faster on the top end.

4th on a P200 gearset is a 35T cog. The T5 and PX125 4th gear is a 36T cog. Very minor difference, but it narrows the gap between 3rd and 4th gear appreciably and can actually increase top speed slightly (unless your engine is beastly enough to pull a stock P200 4th). Between the two alternate gears, I prefer a PX125 gear as it's with is the same as the stock P200 gear. The T5 gear that many shops sell is wider. This may require more fiddling with the shimming of the gearstack and will have a small parasitic power loss as the wider tooth face will need to displace more gear oil as it rotates.

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Sat May 04, 2013 11:09 am

The Stella is built for a side car,so to speak. However before you spring
for a side car find some one who has a Stella/sidecar rig and test it out
first. You ride a scoot, you drive a hack. It is a whole new experience.
Fun once you get used to it.

3angieyou · Post by **3angieyou** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:46 am

After getting over my initial fear and all around wimpiness, I've successfully mastered the stella. Fun little scoot. After getting "lost" today on her I accidentally ended up on a highway with posted speeds of 65. That was quite the experience!

Drum Pro · Post by **Drum Pro** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:08 am

When I first got Smurfette I popped a wheelie by accident, my first go on her. Well done for getting the shifting. So how do you like the Stella now?

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:43 am

3angieyou wrote:After getting over my initial fear and all around wimpiness, I've successfully mastered the stella. Fun little scoot. After getting "lost" today on her I accidentally ended up on a highway with posted speeds of 65. That was quite the experience!

Congratulations on taming your Stella. They are truly a joy to ride once you manage to synch up with it.

Highways generally aren't fun on small-bore bikes. I've laid down a decent number of highway miles with my P200, but I also draft trucks to accelerate and have been known to annoy Priuses in the slow lane by passing them again and again.

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:17 am

3angieyou wrote:After getting over my initial fear and all around wimpiness, I've successfully mastered the stella. Fun little scoot. After getting "lost" today on her I accidentally ended up on a highway with posted speeds of 65. That was quite the experience!

Hooray! Congrats!

irishtim · Post by **irishtim** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:01 pm

We hope to see you 3angieyou on a scootcleveland ride soon on your now-mastered Stella!

2strokes4ever · Post by **2strokes4ever** » Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:21 am

For me the Stella is the way to go. I'm so glad it exists. I have an '09 2T Stella, and also an '08 Yamaha Vino 125. Guess which one gets picked most of the time? I considered selling the Yamaha, but the Stella tends to have mechanical issues once in a while, so I basically keep it around for a spare.

I don't know about the 4T Stella, but the 2T can be ridden very slow in 4th gear. I never downshift more than one gear at the time while moving, unless I am just barely moving, and coming to a stop. Another nice thing about the Stella is that it will climb. The Vino with a CVT transmission does not have low enough gearing to climb mountains without seriously lugging the engine. The Stella can be downshifted and will climb anything while keeping the engine spinning in the powerband.

It will never be as smooth at parking lot speeds as a TNG scooter, it has a very abrupt throttle response, and a solid connection to the rear wheel. The transmission has enough play in it to cause it to be very jerky at first, but some experience will smooth it out considerably.

I never really cared much for modern TNG scooters, yeah they are good transportation, but to me they are very boring. The Stella is an actual machine, it's even made out of metal. It's a real blast from the past, and you can buy it new. I do sometimes wish the build quality were better. I have been told that real Vespas from the time didn't break down as much.

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:08 am

I agree with you but had to trade my 2012 Stella 4T back in on a Buddy 170i.
Reason? Arthritus in my left wrist made it very uncomfortable to shift. I should have seen it coming but still like the Stella. Doubt that you will see
a Stella shiftie in 2013 so take care of yours.

2strokes4ever · Post by **2strokes4ever** » Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:55 pm

I also have fairly severe arthritis, and it does indeed make shifting a problem. But I'm not getting rid of my 2T Stella. When I can no longer ride it on a daily basis, I will reluctantly go to a TNG, but I will keep the Stella to ride for pleasure when I feel like it.

No manual shift Stella in 2013???? Is it the end of the Stella altogether? I can't see fitting a CVT in it. That would be sad for sure, and all the more reason to hang on to them.

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:23 pm

I understand, correct me if I am wrong Eric, but I think that the Europeans
will be getting the Star 125s with the CVT transmission. Stellas have never
been big sellers in this country, I suspect that shifting had something to do with it. The 2T is going the way of the DoDo due to the EPA restrictions.

2strokes4ever · Post by **2strokes4ever** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:08 am

I have the 2T Stella, a 1980 Puch moped, and am looking for a 2 stroke street motorcycle. I've had a lot of 4 stroke scooters and motorcycles and they're ok, but my first motorcycle at age 8 was a 100cc 2 stroke dirt bike, and my first street bike at age 16 was a Suzuki GT380 2 stroke triple. I've always been partial to 2 strokes.

double-o-soul · Post by **double-o-soul** » Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:10 am

could i just chime in and say I find it odd there's so much discussion about "downshifting?"

I rarely ever find myself actually downshifting. I keep the clutch pulled and work my way down to neutral as i slow and brake. I mean i guess from time to time i'll be in 4th and need to get down around 2nd, but i blip throttle going into any gear from any other gear...

Are people downshifting their stella's like motorcycles?

2strokes4ever · Post by **2strokes4ever** » Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:49 am

I also ride motorcycles, and if I know I'm coming to a stop I wait until I am almost stopped to downshift, even from top gear. I am familiar with all my bikes, and know how much to down shift them when turning a corner, but I take it easy on one I'm not familiar with and make sure I don't downshift too far until I learn where it needs to be. I almost always blip the throttle when downshifting. Makes the gears mesh better. The Stella gets ridden in fourth unless I slow way down, then I go to third. I can take off in second with no problems. First is so low that you only go a few feet before needing to upshift. It's really easy to do a wheelie on a 2T Stella halfway through an intersection, when you shift into second and whack the throttle open. With all the weight on the back, it's not hard to get the front wheel off the road.