Has anyone noticed the new Lance PCH125?

ScooterMASS · Post by **ScooterMASS** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:20 pm

I was poking around the Kymco forums & noticed the new Lance PCH 125 here:

http://lancepowersports.com/models/pch125.html

for $1899.00 looks too me like a Kymco Agility killer. 8.38HP, polished rims, nice instrument panel layout, six different colors, plus it looks very nice. I never cared for the looks of the Agility myself. I'm not sure about fees, but if that could be had for around 2K, it's a winner!

Another link:

http://www.carolinafunmachines.com/Pages/LancePCH.aspx

BeefSupreme · Post by **BeefSupreme** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:30 pm

That's one sharp scooter at an awesome price. Wow.

ScooterMASS · Post by **ScooterMASS** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:16 pm

Yeah...It looks pretty nice. Hell...It's better looking then my Kymco Super 8 that costs $500.00 more! SYM built in China, but that doesn't mean anything. The only problem I see is that SYM parts are priced way too high! I'm not sure if Lance parts may cost less. Nice to see a sub-$2000 scooter that looks great & I'm sure is built well.

The Kymco Agility has sold like "hotcakes" over the years...now it has a real competitor! My wife & I are considering buying some property in Key West & this scoot would fit the bill perfectly!

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:27 pm

The black one looks like a stealth scooter with those angular lines.
Not bad for a modern looking scoot. Too bad the stock front blinkers didn't meet DOT specs and the rear blinkers are fugly; but that's how they look on most MC's.
Time/miles will tell for the quality.
Hard to beat a Buddy for dependability. I have about 35K miles and haven't had to do anything to the motor yet. Knock wood.

gar1013 · Post by **gar1013** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:53 pm

I'm more partial to the Cali Classic 125.

http://lancepowersports.com/models/cali125.html

The only thing is, I wouldn't want to be the first in my neighborhood to own one -- I'd want to know what the track record is first.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:42 pm

Performance-wise, the engine in the Cali looks like it needs to push more weight than the engine of the PCH.

I know the Fiddle II I had, the bike that started the SYM-Alliance alliance, was pretty sluggish until I got about 4000 miles on it, and it was never quick off the line. The PCH looks like it might be lighter than the Fiddle/Cali, and then should be a better performer.

I read the complaints about SYM parts pricing, but I've never really seen examples given. So all I know is the only parts I ever needed on my HD200 and the Fiddle (air filters and brake pads) never seemed too expensive.

Howardr · Post by **Howardr** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:05 pm

Parts are a MAJOR problem. Because of having my RV-250, I am on one of the SYM forums. Folks there are leaving the SYM brand in droves. That includes people who really love their SYM bikes but just can't get the support they need.

I really like SYM products but they need major work on their parts system. Our dealer here in Tucson goes to Canda to get parts because it's "faster" than getting them from California.

Howard

ScooterMASS · Post by **ScooterMASS** » Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:00 pm

I agree. Why can't SYM/Alliance get their act together on the parts scenario? They make great scooters! Was the Carter Brothers disaster that bad for SYM? We all know SYM is a major player in other markets. Do they not really care about the USA?

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:48 pm

SYM may be a big player in Asia, but they made some pretty stupid moves in the US. Carter Bros ended in disaster, but they were an embarrassment for much of the time they handled SYM. Add the Lance Fiddle II clone to the mix and SYM's management decisions are very suspect.

So now there is the 'new' Lance, trying to rehab it's reputation from no-support clone-seller to reputable importer of quality scooters. I can understand Alliance's stated stance of carrying parts for the scooters they sell first, and filling in later, but if they can't even supply parts for the best sellers, like the HD200, then maybe I'm glad I got a BV350.

And that's too bad. SYM makes too good a scoot to be stuck with so bad a pair of importers.

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:18 pm

ScooterMASS wrote:I agree. Why can't SYM/Alliance get their act together on the parts scenario? They make great scooters! Was the Carter Brothers disaster that bad for SYM? We all know SYM is a major player in other markets. Do they not really care about the USA?

Syd wrote:SYM may be a big player in Asia, but they made some pretty stupid moves in the US. Carter Bros ended in disaster, but they were an embarrassment for much of the time they handled SYM. Add the Lance Fiddle II clone to the mix and SYM's management decisions are very suspect.

So now there is the 'new' Lance, trying to rehab it's reputation from no-support clone-seller to reputable importer of quality scooters. I can understand Alliance's stated stance of carrying parts for the scooters they sell first, and filling in later, but if they can't even supply parts for the best sellers, like the HD200, then maybe I'm glad I got a BV350.

And that's too bad. SYM makes too good a scoot to be stuck with so bad a pair of importers.

Alliance is doing much better than Carter Bros. did and better than when they were just Lance. Even the newer Lance products are much better quality (as they're built by SYM in China).

I know that the SYM parts situation is better than it was when Alliance first took over, but still not ideal. That pretty much goes for all scooter makes, though, so I'm not sure how good/bad it is relative to everyone else. They only company I've head that's got a very good supply is Kymco, but with all the models they're bringing in, who knows if that's still true.

As far as "caring about the US market," it's such a tiny sliver of the global market that few companies devote a lot of resources to selling in the US. I don't know what percentage it is for SYM, but when they last reported North American sales as a separate figure, Piaggio Group (which includes Vespa, Piaggio, Moto Guzzi and Aprilia scooters and motorcycles) sold about 1.5% of their product in the continent — and that percentage was shrinking. For most companies, India and SE Asia are the big, growing markets and for SYM Taiwan and other Asian markets are their big foundation. So it often looks as if Vespa, Honda and many others don't care about the US — and to a degree that may be true.

That also means that for many, stocking huge supplies of parts in the country isn't cost effective. I wouldn't crow about Piaggio's supply until you need to get a part ordered from Italy. It can takes months.

"Getting" the US market is very tough for the overseas-based scooter companies and just about the only one that has ever seemed to is Genuine because of their unique partnerships with PGO and LML. If you look at the sales strategies and history of Vespa, Honda and others, it's pretty apparent that they often miss the mark by a wide margin. If you look at Kymco's model lineup, the number of redundant models competing with each other, and their ridiculous names — oof. It makes no sense.

While Alliance/Lance/SYM isn't beyond criticism, overall, I don't think they're any worse than most of the competition, including some of the much bigger players.

pattio · Post by **pattio** » Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:19 pm

If there's one thing that leads people to buy china scoots, 'gee it seems like a lot for the money' is probably number one. 'They say they're not like the previous distributor you may have heard complaints about' comes next. Buy Genuine.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:15 pm

pattio wrote:If there's one thing that leads people to buy china scoots, 'gee it seems like a lot for the money' is probably number one. 'They say they're not like the previous distributor you may have heard complaints about' comes next. Buy Genuine.

Completely true and completely false, in the sense of this discussion. SYM is as Chinese as your Genuine scoot. Even the "Chinese built" Fiddle II and Lance scoots are built in SYM's factory in China, which is a far cry from the internet scoot dealer's product.

pattio · Post by **pattio** » Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:42 pm

I have my bias and I'll own it for this discussion. If op goes on china scoot websites and promotes Genuine products they can share a link. This forum is very open and tolerant, which opens the door to shills. IMHO, there is no way that 'has anyone seen this (china scoot)' deserves fair consideration next to Genuine product, and is an abuse of the tolerance of the forum. Just my opinion. Buy Taiwan, and buy Genuine. The day Genuine launches mainland product and claims its the same is the day I'm done supporting them. Read carefully, those within reach of my words: 'Gee, it seems like a lot for the money' followed by 'they say they're not the same as what you've heard complaints about' are red flags.

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:08 pm

pattio wrote:I have my bias and I'll own it for this discussion. If op goes on china scoot websites and promotes Genuine products they can share a link. This forum is very open and tolerant, which opens the door to shills. IMHO, there is no way that 'has anyone seen this (china scoot)' deserves fair consideration next to Genuine product, and is an abuse of the tolerance of the forum. Just my opinion. Buy Taiwan, and buy Genuine. The day Genuine launches mainland product and claims its the same is the day I'm done supporting them. Read carefully, those within reach of my words: 'Gee, it seems like a lot for the money' followed by 'they say they're not the same as what you've heard complaints about' are red flags.

As much as you're entitled to your opinion about China scoots, everyone else is free to compare what they like to whatever else they like. This isn't abuse. It's discussion. If you've no specific info relevant to the scooters discussed here or the companies that make and sell them while others do, then who is taking advantage of our tolerances?

It's obvious we all like and support Genuine products here but they're not the only ones worthy of consideration or even the only quality scooters on the market. By dismissing all others outright based on country of manufacture, we ignore a big part of the real-world discussion about scooters and do our members a disservice.

pattio · Post by **pattio** » Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:23 pm

ericalm wrote:
pattio wrote:I have my bias and I'll own it for this discussion. If op goes on china scoot websites and promotes Genuine products they can share a link. .

It's obvious we all like and support Genuine products here but they're not the only ones worthy of consideration or even the only quality scooters on the market. By dismissing all others outright based on country of manufacture, we ignore a big part of the real-world discussion about scooters and do our members a disservice.

You are a good moderator and this is a good and tolerant forum. I suffered personal humiliation when I told prospective customers that china Kymcos were 'just as good' as Taiwan Kymcos and I will never forget it. I apologize for my intemperance. I stand by my challenge to op to share a link to where they promote Genuine product on china scoot forums.

Post by **jrsjr** » Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:41 pm

ericalm wrote:As much as you're entitled to your opinion about China scoots, everyone else is free to compare what they like to whatever else they like. This isn't abuse. It's discussion. If you've no specific info relevant to the scooters discussed here or the companies that make and sell them while others do, then who is taking advantage of our tolerances?

It's obvious we all like and support Genuine products here but they're not the only ones worthy of consideration or even the only quality scooters on the market. By dismissing all others outright based on country of manufacture, we ignore a big part of the real-world discussion about scooters and do our members a disservice.

Well said, Fred! <Inert tip-of-the-hat emoticon here>

gar1013 · Post by **gar1013** » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:47 pm

On the whole mainland china thing, my thoughts are this:

If I can avoid buying a product made by a country with the human rights record of China, the lack of respect for intellectual property that China does, and the threat to our national security of China.... well, I'll spend more money to buy that product.

Every now and then, you do get really tempted. Cleveland Cyclewerks is a great example. And then you watch some videos, and you get more tempted. And then you see a video where the bolts for the front brake caliper come loose. Then you're not so tempted..... supposedly they'll start building bikes in the US -- even if it costs more, it'll be worth it.

Howardr · Post by **Howardr** » Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:19 am

I don't know if Alliance is doing as well as Carter Bros or not. I am looking for an OEM variator for my 2008 SYM RV-250. My local shops tells me that Alliance told them that they carry no parts for any SYM scooters that existed PRIOR to them taking over the parts business.

Thant means they will not carry parts for scoots sold by SYM prior to last year. Then I got told that the Canadian parts supplier they were using went belly up. That's really tough for those of us who have SYM's.

It makes me glad I have 2 Genuine bikes in addition to the SYM.

Howard

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:27 am

Now ^^ that sucks. Are there no aftermarket variators that will fit?

gar1013 · Post by **gar1013** » Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:29 am

Howardr wrote:I don't know if Alliance is doing as well as Carter Bros or not. I am looking for an OEM variator for my 2008 SYM RV-250. My local shops tells me that Alliance told them that they carry no parts for any SYM scooters that existed PRIOR to them taking over the parts business.

Thant means they will not carry parts for scoots sold by SYM prior to last year. Then I got told that the Canadian parts supplier they were using went belly up. That's really tough for those of us who have SYM's.

It makes me glad I have 2 Genuine bikes in addition to the SYM.

Howard

See, I think that's just bad business. The brand is Sym, and if you have a Sym you should have a reasonable expectation of support by the company that sells Syms.

If you aren't going to support the brand that you are importing, then you should simply rename all the bikes.

Nobody would have even the slightest expectation that Genuine would support an LML or PGO product that it never imported.

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:56 am

It's an interesting bike. It looks cool, but I'd like to see one in person before passing a judgement. It would be nice to have an alternative to the Agility, especially if Kymco decides to refresh the Agility and up the ante.

dtcrouch · Post by **dtcrouch** » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:38 am

we have one in the shop it weighs 240 lbs dry it only has 10 miles but its pretty peppy and the handling is awesome , the cvt is an over range which is cool , it uses gy6 125/150 trans parts , we have had to get a few parts for the pch 50s and lance has always been on the ball th 50s are sold out ours flew off the floor

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:42 am

its a SYM SYMply 2

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vLlIBr3Zji4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

ScooterMASS · Post by **ScooterMASS** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:10 pm

Guys...I just bought one this morning for my wife @ Scooters-Go-Green in Boston. $1849.00 ($50.00 off retail) plus $100.00 freight & prep. No dealer fees, plus MA. tax @ 6.25% The total was $2070.81 Gave them cash on the spot. They will do a runner for me @ the DMV @ no charge! Meaning...I'll pay the DMV fees, but they will take care of it for me @ no cost to me (i.e. I don't have to wait in line) Good deal if you ask me.

Great scooter store. Really wonderful people! They carry SYM, Lance, Genuine, ETON & Hyosung (motorcycles) They let me take the PCH125 for a test spin (wanted to make sure I had a M/C endorsement) Fair enough. Seems pretty peppy with only 4 miles on the speedo. I took her for a 6-7 mile cruise & got her up to 50 without a hiccup. It's a Black/Charcoal looking color (that's all they had) I really wanted Red. Here is the problem for me....I live 35 miles away from Boston. They said "no problem" we pick up a few "Stella's & Buddy's" in the fall (in my area) & we'll pick-up yours as well for a $25.00 charge.

The fit & finish is pretty good you guys. Better then my Kymco Super 8 150cc I leave @ my parents home in Florida. I'm having them install a SHAD 29 liter top case. I'll chime back once I can really give a decent review. Looks pretty good so far.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:50 pm

Congratulations! I hope your wife is happy with it (even if it's not red). Question: What does this mean?

ScooterMASS wrote:Here is the problem for me....I live 35 miles away from Boston. They said "no problem" we pick up a few "Stella's & Buddy's" in the fall (in my area) & we'll pick-up yours as well for a $25.00 charge.

MrChet · Post by **MrChet** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:01 pm

Assume it means for service. If needed, the shop can send a truck to pick up the bike for repairs for $25.

Seems reasonable to me

Southerner · Post by **Southerner** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:10 am

I DO like the Cali Classic (Joker) layout. It looks like loads of fun to ride. I wish Lance and SYM well.

Yes, the US market has been tough to crack but I see more scooters even out here every day. In fact, last Sunday alone, I saw two, count 'em, two Buddys AND a Stella in one day. Got all excited and went to the computer to see if some brave soul had decided to open another Genuine dealership in the area but no dice.

I live in Alabama and the Carter Bros. issue no longer even appears in the local news. No idea what happened and I guess we never will know.

The doughty local lawn equipment dealership that started selling Kymcos seems to be experiencing at least modest success. I stopped by recently and was surprised to hear the salesman tell me that the little bikes aren't selling as well as the big Kymcos. They don't floorspace those. The buyers just know what they want already and walk in and have the dealership order them.

They say that, hands down, Kymco has the best parts supply network. I can see that as a big selling point for a dealer. For owners too, for that matter.

ScooterMASS · Post by **ScooterMASS** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:09 pm

I didn't want to spend a ton of money considering my wife "might" put on 500+ miles a year on her. I really like Kymco products (see my signature), plus the dealer is less then 10 miles away. I simply don't care for the looks of the Kymco Agility 125 (neither does my wife) I wanted a 125cc & she prefers a modern looking scoter (one of the few girls that do) A Buddy 125 would have fit the bill, but again a tad more then I wanted to spend & she likes the looks of the PCH125.

Yes...That's what I meant about the dealer being 35 miles away. 35 miles doesn't sound far, but from Gloucester to Boston that would take forever to get there. $25.00 each way isn't bad @ all. I'll do the fluids myself, so I'll only need them for something that's out of my reach. I gave them some mirror extenders to install & a pigtail for the Battery Tender Jr. She'll be delivered to our house tomorrow morning.

Kymco parts are really, really solid. I had to order a front fender for my GT300i a couple of months ago & came in within 3 days. I have owned 5 different Kymco's & parts were never an issue. I hope Lance/SYM will @ least be somewhat decent (fingers crossed)

Indy21 · Post by **Indy21** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:06 pm

Southerner wrote:I DO like the Cali Classic (Joker) layout. It looks like loads of fun to ride. I wish Lance and SYM well.

Yes, the US market has been tough to crack but I see more scooters even out here every day. In fact, last Sunday alone, I saw two, count 'em, two Buddys AND a Stella in one day. Got all excited and went to the computer to see if some brave soul had decided to open another Genuine dealership in the area but no dice.

I live in Alabama and the Carter Bros. issue no longer even appears in the local news. No idea what happened and I guess we never will know.

The doughty local lawn equipment dealership that started selling Kymcos seems to be experiencing at least modest success. I stopped by recently and was surprised to hear the salesman tell me that the little bikes aren't selling as well as the big Kymcos. They don't floorspace those. The buyers just know what they want already and walk in and have the dealership order them.

They say that, hands down, Kymco has the best parts supply network. I can see that as a big selling point for a dealer. For owners too, for that matter.

Hey there Southerner, I'm in Alabama as well, Homewood to be precise.

So I guess Magic City Motors is the only Genuine dealer around eh? I've been calling the guy at the shop for the past week to see if he had any Stella's that I can come check out, says he's puting some together this week and should be ready by Saturday.

I want one bad but the wife and I need to get some financial situations in order before I begin seriously considering buying, got the bug and can't even do anything about it! lol

Oh well, give's me something to do and pass the time reading here and researching.

Sorry, back on topic.

Southerner · Post by **Southerner** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:25 pm

Hello back.

Got a friend that lives in Homewood. Should be lots of nice places to ride a scoot up that way. Plus quite a few to avoid.

I wouldn't mind seeing Magic City Motors some day. Atlanta would be somewhat closer for me but it's really down to which dealer treats me better.

tortoise · Post by **tortoise** » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:22 am

New shipment advisory per Lance Facebook post . . .
"We just got word that our PCH 50cc & PCH 125 cc scoots are landing at the port right before the 4th of July Holiday! That means the scoots will arrive at our warehouse middle to late next week!"

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:23 am

I dunno... looks like it's trying *too* hard to be sporty. Looks overdone style-wise. The Agility plays it safe on the styling angle.

As far as performance, SYM is known for building a good motor so I have no doubt it can keep up with the Agility. The biggest issue in the room is parts supply. They're playing at the same price as Kymco, but they don't have the name recognition that Kymco does. They put bikes in every pit crew of NHRA and NASCAR driver, so those Rednecks are seeing Kymco bikes first. They have the ability to do product placement that SYM doesn't, ant that could be the determining factor.

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:37 am

neotrotsky wrote:I dunno... looks like it's trying *too* hard to be sporty. Looks overdone style-wise. The Agility plays it safe on the styling angle.

As far as performance, SYM is known for building a good motor so I have no doubt it can keep up with the Agility. The biggest issue in the room is parts supply. They're playing at the same price as Kymco, but they don't have the name recognition that Kymco does. They put bikes in every pit crew of NHRA and NASCAR driver, so those Rednecks are seeing Kymco bikes first. They have the ability to do product placement that SYM doesn't, ant that could be the determining factor.

Want to take a guess at how many scooters Kymco probably sells due to that NASCAR deal? And whether they get their money's worth in name recognition? It's a VERY EXPENSIVE deal for them.

Kymco's name recognition is barely greater than SYM's. In the US, as far as new scooter buyers go, there's Honda, Yamaha, Vespa and maybe Genuine. Then everything else. Most wouldn't know a Kymco from a SYM or a Lance or Roketa.

At this point, I'd take a PCH over ANY of the similar displacement Kymcos. If they still had a (Taiwanese built) People 150, it might be a different matter. But the cheaper, Chinese-built models Kymco has added to their lineup have no better reputation for quality and performance than any of the SYM-built Chinese Lances. And from the Like to the Movie to the Compagno, their lineup is looking more and more generic.

Southerner · Post by **Southerner** » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:16 am

Yes, they're trying to find the ideal price point. The Like 200, for example, is surprisingly low priced unless you know it's Chinese built. AND not really a 200. Still, it presents pretty well and since so many average consumers are willing to plunk down for no-names and don't know the difference, they can't fail to be better served by Kymco's parts distribution network. At least they can take it back to where they got it to get it fixed.

As for Rednecks (capitalization is a new wrinkle), they might not buy one for themselves but (A) Kymco also sells 4-wheelers and (B) they have kids who get driver's licenses and need transportation to school and work.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:30 am

ericalm wrote: At this point, I'd take a PCH over ANY of the similar displacement Kymcos.

good luck not getting overtaken at every light and in other situations that would not occur with an Agility 125. i mean they are small engines, and SYM builds a good one, but not all are created equal or perform the same in real world situations

i'd take my Agility over that SYM SYMply 2 any time. if its the same pokey engine that is in the Lance Cali Classic, although "just a 125," every last bit of off the line grunt a small engine can muster matters in urban commuting, and the kymco 125 is strong in its own right for a 125. i have read the SYM 125, not so much. more like a Vino 125. or i have read. which an Agility can smoke off the line

so far as smoking off the line goes in the world of small engine scoots

gitsum79 · Post by **gitsum79** » Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:54 pm

I think the Lance PCH 125 is a great looking quality scooter for the price.
If I was riding solo all of the time, I would be confident the made by SYM 125cc ceramic coated engine would accelerate smartly and top out about 60 mph.

Not as fast or powerful as a Buddy 150, but a match for a Kymco Agility.

I sold my SYM HD200 EVO and went looking for something a little smaller.

I choose the made by SYM Tomos Nitro 150. It has 12" wheels, dual adjustable shocks in the rear, and a GY6B engine that makes about 10.5 HP.
It is more like the Buddy 150 in engine performance. I choose the Nitro 150 over the Buddy 150 because I ride two-up most of the time and the Buddy has a short seat. I also needed larger and fatter tires for navigating dirt and gravel roads to reach remote destinations.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:11 pm

Just curious, why did you sell the HD200, arguably the best sub-200cc scoot made?

gitsum79 · Post by **gitsum79** » Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:22 pm

Syd wrote:Just curious, why did you sell the HD200, arguably the best sub-200cc scoot made?

Three reasons, I'll list them in order of priority.

1. Parts availability. It's near impossible to find parts, most of them or proprietary and all of them are ridiculously expensive.

2. Not the best off-road ride. High center of gravity, close to 300 lbs, relatively narrow tires and harsh riding over rough surfaces even for a scooter with 16" wheels.

3. If my wife wants to ride solo the HD200 was just a bit large.

That being said, the HD200 was brilliant for touring back highways with almost motorcycle like handling and an overachieving engine.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:20 am

gitsum79 wrote: I choose the made by SYM Tomos Nitro 150. It has 12" wheels, dual adjustable shocks in the rear, and a GY6B engine that makes about 10.5 HP.
It is more like the Buddy 150 in engine performance. I choose the Nitro 150 over the Buddy 150 because I ride two-up most of the time and the Buddy has a short seat. I also needed larger and fatter tires for navigating dirt and gravel roads to reach remote destinations.

i like that nitro. also like the similar in style Piaggio Typhoon. personally i find not much difference in feel and stability between the 10in Buddy wheels and the 12in on my Agility and don't quite understand when folks speak of a BIG difference. maybe its the suspension of the BJ that keeps things hunkered down? that said the BJ is....bouncier in some instances. but otherwise the diff is negligible imho

so far as the pokey SYM 125 engine i can only base it on reading posts on the internet of other owners and reviews. like this one

http://www.justgottascoot.com/cali125.htm

doesn't sound terrible, just leisurely. so far as choosing theLance / SYM over "any" similar small displacement Kymco as eric stated....thats just nonsense imo. i mean....THAT SYM over an Agility 125 if an Agility is what you want? why? quality? well, its not exactly a Vespa and its nothing too special, like the Agility. and nothing has broken on my Agility for almost 20,000 miles. some have different experiences but its chinese mainland made and i ride it hard. still goes great on mostly oil changes. and no repairs, period. beyond preventive maintenance, of course. but its needed no repair or replacement of parts. and its tight. suspension squeaks a bit, though

i think in the end many of these low cost high value scooters are very similar so to 'dis Kymco in favor of brand a, b, and c is sort of like 'dissing apples over oranges just because of....some sort of biased quality perception? idk?

go go KYMCO!!!

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:10 am

I have had 3 Chinese scoots, 2 were ok & 1 was a total train wreck. I have
owned 3 Taiwanese units(still do) and they have been top flight. I have
learned to listen to others on the 3 forums I belong to and all in all I think
you get what you are willing to pay for. Nothing wrong with a less expensive
scoot as long as you are aware of the problems that may pop up. For me the
best bang for the buck is the Genuine line, very pleased with my Buddy 170i.
Andi 21 & Southerner, you might want to consider Floyd Grimm at Vespa
Marietta in Marietta, GA.. Distance might be a factor but I can reccomend
him highly as a fair and honest guy to deal with.

Southerner · Post by **Southerner** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:19 pm

Thanks for the advice. In fact, Marrietta is where my Honda came from. Place called WOW that only sells used motorcycles and scooters.

tortoise · Post by **tortoise** » Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:47 am

Lance PCH 150 review.

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:11 am

^^ I was just going to do the same!

I love Dave's reviews. The fact that he does it out of his own love for the things is awesome.

ravenlore · Post by **ravenlore** » Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:22 pm

skully93 wrote:^^ I was just going to do the same!

I love Dave's reviews. The fact that he does it out of his own love for the things is awesome.

He's also really funny and nice in person.

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:15 pm

I check Justgottascoot weekly. Excellent reviews!!!

ggs34 · Post by **ggs34** » Sat Feb 15, 2014 4:27 pm

so which scoot is faster
i like the bigger wheels and love the look of the pch150
i had a buddy 150 for a few years great bike fast reminds me of a bel air mini bike just too small seemed too small for me wheels too small

so the pch 150 is a lot cheaper than a buddy170i

got great reviews by dave at justgotta scoot

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:13 pm

I have no doubt that the PCH is a fine scooter but I will stick with my
Buddy 170i. I like every thing about it.

Modern Buddy

Has anyone noticed the new Lance PCH125?

Has anyone noticed the new Lance PCH125?

lance pch150 vs buddy 150