Hooligan 170i

skipper20 · Post by **skipper20** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:57 am

I talked to a Genuine dealer last week (Burton Motorsports in Suquamish, WA) and among other things, he confirmed that Genuine was going to drop a 170i engine into the Roughouse 50 frame and call it a "Hooligan". He says the Genuine rep. told him that Genuine's marketing research indicated that potential male buyers prefer a more masculine looking scooter than the traditional Buddy style hence the new "Hooligan" Roughouse super-macho look. So, are we going to have a gender crisis here? The gals for the Buddy and the guys for the more macho Hooligan? Personally, I'm OK with my Buddy 170i's look but I have been thinking of painting a male face with a 5 day growth of beard on her front cowling. Excuse me, I meant his front cowling!

Bill in Seattle
'12 170i Italia
'11 220i Blur

brianwheelies · Post by **brianwheelies** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:04 am

Please keep it the Roughhouse body and I will have to rejoin the Genuine brand!

TroutBum · Post by **TroutBum** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:49 am

If this turns out to be true we could have a winner. That would be a great modification to the Roughouse.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:20 am

skipper20 wrote:So, are we going to have a gender crisis here? The gals for the Buddy and the guys for the more macho Hooligan? Personally, I'm OK with my Buddy 170i's look but I have been thinking of painting a male face with a 5 day growth of beard on her front cowling. Excuse me, I meant his front cowling!

I refer to my Buddy as "he". I would do so even if he were pink. And I'm secure enough about my masculinity to ride a 50cc Buddy.

(To say nothing about my love life.

)

But I think it's a fine idea for Genuine to produce a more stereotypically masculine styled/named scooter for those who need a little help in that area.

RoadRambler · Post by **RoadRambler** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:45 pm

As I said in the other thread, I'm ready to buy! When will it come out?

I'm not concerned about the styling, I want the larger tires because I'm on 4 lane highways and rough roads every day. Oh, and I'm a woman, so that whole other argument is moot for me ...

ravenlore · Post by **ravenlore** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:05 pm

Pending ergonomics of course the Hooligan 170i would be a fantastic candidate for a scoot for my brother-in-law.

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:53 pm

I still think it's a fine idea. Each has it's own charm, and I could see enjoying a 170i Hooligan

.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:52 pm

Previous thread on this -

topic25996.html

Plus a link to what may be the "donor" PGO model -

http://www.pgo-scooter.com/products_inf ... 3326153c03

brianwheelies · Post by **brianwheelies** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:09 pm

Dooglas wrote:Previous thread on this -

topic25996.html

Plus a link to what may be the "donor" PGO model -

http://www.pgo-scooter.com/products_inf ... 3326153c03

If it is the X-Hot with a 170 motor I will not consider it. I think it looks fugly.

Here's to hoping it stays Roughhouse!

Drum Pro · Post by **Drum Pro** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:39 pm

All this time I thought the Buddys here were the J-BuBu but it turns out they are the Ligero.

I wouldn't mind a J-BuBu 170I though....

Alexbv200 · Post by **Alexbv200** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:40 pm

$3,399.00 for the Hooligan

Comes in Matte Army Green and matte Black.

brianwheelies · Post by **brianwheelies** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:25 pm

Pics?

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:36 pm

That is in the price range of the Buddy 170i. Not a bad price and once it is here it should be a top seller for Genuine. Much as I like my 170i I might have to take a hard look at it as long as it keeps the Rough House styling.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:18 am

Drum Pro wrote:All this time I thought the Buddys here were the J-BuBu but it turns out they are the Ligero. I wouldn't mind a J-BuBu 170I though....

The "J-Bubu" is a redesign of the original PGO Bubu using new plastic. The Buddy WAS identical to the original Bubu. Ligero is a name used in some European markets.

http://www.bikez.com/motorcycles/pgo_bubu_125_2008.php

http://www.pgo-scooter.com/news_info.ph ... be7bb2ec80

Drum Pro · Post by **Drum Pro** » Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:02 am

Dooglas wrote:
Drum Pro wrote:All this time I thought the Buddys here were the J-BuBu but it turns out they are the Ligero. I wouldn't mind a J-BuBu 170I though....
The "J-Bubu" is a redesign of the original PGO Bubu using new plastic. The Buddy WAS identical to the original Bubu. Ligero is a name used in some European markets.

http://www.bikez.com/motorcycles/pgo_bubu_125_2008.php

http://www.pgo-scooter.com/news_info.ph ... be7bb2ec80

Thanks for that....

brianwheelies · Post by **brianwheelies** » Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:31 am

After watching YouTube videos of the X-Hot, I think it looks acceptable. The pictures on the PGO website do not do it any justice.

n2tattoos · Post by **n2tattoos** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:11 am

http://gas2.org/2013/11/10/genuine-scoo ... -facebook/

OldGuy · Post by **OldGuy** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:11 am

Interesting. Looks like PGO B2 "face" (lights) with PGO B1 front fender. And that front fender is exactly what I would have wanted. I like!

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:52 am

I am doing a piece for ScooterFile now on the Hooligan and other new Genuines. There are some interesting things in the photo. I don't think this is the production version. It's probably the one they brought over for EPA and CARB testing.

ravenlore · Post by **ravenlore** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:25 am

ericalm wrote:I am doing a piece for ScooterFile now on the Hooligan and other new Genuines. There are some interesting things in the photo. I don't think this is the production version. It's probably the one they brought over for EPA and CARB testing.

Plural other new Genuines, or just Hooligan and Stellato?

monnoracing · Post by **monnoracing** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:31 am

O just great now I have to figure out how to get one.
And looks like I am removing all my go fast parts off my buddy.

agrogod · Post by **agrogod** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:39 am

Oh Nelly do I like what I see. Now if a new Genuine dealer would be so kind as to open near my area, I would be able to see one in person when its finally released for US sales.
Big plus'es here, HID lights, and luggage hooks. Not that you can't add these to your own machine, but the integrated look is so much better.

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:40 am

Like the design but not the colors. I will stick with my Buddy 170i. However
I think the Hooligan will sell well in this country.

OldGuy · Post by **OldGuy** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:38 pm

Eric, please let us know when your ScooterFile article is available to us.

I attached a flyer I found online. Hope it is usable!

I notice the prototype has slim turn signals, probably LED; as they can't stay with the integrated signals the scoot already had. This would be a better choice than adding the bulbous Roughhouse-style signals.

I also noticed that the central handlebar area seems to be encased with plastic, and the speedometer housing looks to be a different shape from the X-Hot. If this is true, I suspect we won't get the cool handlebars or X-Hot digital display. However... To me it looks like the PGO B1 handlebar / display unit, which is also very nice. I can live with that! (B1 Display photo attached.)

So, according to the photos, Genuine is rummaging through the PGO parts bins to come up with a B1/B2 morph for us. I am very interested to learn more!

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:54 pm

Here's the article on the new Genuines:
http://www.scooterfile.com/oems/genuine ... d-reality/

The Hooligan is as much Libra (B1) as X-Hot (B2), basically the same scoot with different panels. Underneath, though, it may not be exactly the same as the Buddy 170i!

ScooterFile.com wrote:Genuine dealer Scooterworks Chicago posted a photo of the Hooligan to their Facebook page last week. While definitely not the overseas version of the X-Hot, it may be a pre-production Hooligan imported for testing (meaning not the final components and trim). Some of the body styling is picked up from the PGO Libra — the solid, heavier grab bar than the X-Hot’s, the streamlined rear panels, the smoother front fender that wraps around the sides of the front forks. The DOT-compliant turn signals under the handlebars appear to be LEDs. There are fold-out passenger footpegs, which don’t appear on either PGO model. The rear turn signals are mounted on long stalks. Those signals may be one likely change in the production version; we may get something similar to what’s on the Libra.

Here's what the Libra rear end looks like:

Much cleaner than the long-stalk signals on the Hooligan in the Scooterworks photo and the flyer PDF. Note that neither have any badges, so they're probably not the final production versions.

ScooterFile.com wrote:We’re not sure if it will sport the X-Hot or Libra dash, but both have an analog/LCD combination that includes a tachometer — a first for an automatic Genuine. There’s been scuttlebutt about a number of other differences from the PGOs and US Buddys, including gearing and the fuel injection system.

Don't be surprised if there are a few more surprises in the Hooligan. It's going to be more than a Buddy 170i stuffed into an X-Hot. We already know it's got better suspension and brakes, more pet carrier storage, better fuel economy. But, on the "rumor" side, the Hooligan may have different gearing, different transmission tuning and even a different fuel injection setup.

I'm thinking it'll have the Libra dash.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:59 pm

Alexbv200 wrote:Comes in Matte Army Green and matte Black.

Wolfhound wrote:Like the design but not the colors.

I'm with you. We are talking about a scooter with some "rough road" or off road capability. How about some bright colors? Orange, yellow, red, whatever. Why do all importers think Americans want dull looking rides with matte paint?

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:05 pm

Looks nice. I bet the Hooligan and Stellauto will be fantastic sellers for Genuine.

Not that I regret my Buddy 1 bit, but 12" tires and dual discs would be very tempting if I wasn't rocking a ton of bikes

. If it's not a limited type thing maybe in a few years.

OldGuy · Post by **OldGuy** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:10 pm

Yes, let's get some color in there! Between Black and Olive Green, I'll take Black please. But would prefer Red, Blue, Yellow, White... Or a lot of other choices.

Maybe if this sells well they'll bring in more colors next year.

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:03 pm

Any color as long as it is Silver!!!!

RexM · Post by **RexM** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:29 pm

I guess I'm the contrarian... a scooter with muscular styling in flat olive green sounds freaking awesome to me

RoaringTodd · Post by **RoaringTodd** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:42 pm

I'd prefer the integrated rear signals. I have the 85 Honda 150 and the rear signals keep getting knocked off because they stick out. My 87 with integrated lights never had a problem with this. Epoxy can only do so much.

Love the front fender.

Wonder if panels will be interchangeable like the buddy, especially the front panel.

I would give up both my Hondas for the Hooligan if the seat and ergos are as comfortable.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:52 pm

Thanks, Eric, for mentioning the disappointment of the Rainbow Unicorn Society of America. The Society appreciates your remembrance.

Southerner · Post by **Southerner** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:09 am

It's not what I expected to see but I like it, probably because it's practical and makes sense.

Which is a terrible reason to buy a scooter!

Mcanaves · Post by **Mcanaves** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:42 am

I'm excited. Definitely looking to be one of the first owners

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:45 pm

Shoot. 12" wheels, dual disc brakes, projector headlight and a FI 170cc?
That is really tempting. I also really dig the looks. And the name!
It will be a tough choice for me when my Buddy dies of old age since a pre-owned MC can still be had for a similar price.

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:02 pm

Nonsense, Southerner. It is the reason i use here at home every time I buy another scoot. Never know when gas will go to $10.00 a gallon do we??

Burton Motorsports · Post by **Burton Motorsports** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:18 pm

Quick Clarification: We confirmed the Hooligan will indeed have a 170i engine - GREAT NEWS. And although the styling would be more like the Roughhouse, it's incorrect that it's a Roughhouse with a 170 dropped in. This is a completely new & exciting machine with a totally different chassis. As for whether your scoot is a boy or a girl, the Buddy is loved by all & we expect the Hooligan will be too. Because of the longer wheel base, however, some men (typically with taller inseams) may appreciate the more generous legroom on the Hooligan. We encourage you to check out the specs on Genuine's website!

skipper20 wrote:I talked to a Genuine dealer last week (Burton Motorsports in Suquamish, WA) and among other things, he confirmed that Genuine was going to drop a 170i engine into the Roughouse 50 frame and call it a "Hooligan". He says the Genuine rep. told him that Genuine's marketing research indicated that potential male buyers prefer a more masculine looking scooter than the traditional Buddy style hence the new "Hooligan" Roughouse super-macho look. So, are we going to have a gender crisis here? The gals for the Buddy and the guys for the more macho Hooligan? Personally, I'm OK with my Buddy 170i's look but I have been thinking of painting a male face with a 5 day growth of beard on her front cowling. Excuse me, I meant his front cowling!

Bill in Seattle
'12 170i Italia
'11 220i Blur

Mcanaves · Post by **Mcanaves** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:26 pm

I don't yet see any info on the genuine website regarding the specs of the Hooligan. Care to direct me towards it, Burton?

Burton Motorsports · Post by **Burton Motorsports** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:33 pm

All of the official specs aren't out yet, so as a dealer we can't confirm exact measurements. However, the wheelbase of the Hooligan will be about 2 inches longer and the overall length will be about 6 inches longer (versus the Buddy). Genuine will be announcing the official specs in the coming months, so stay tuned!

Mcanaves wrote:I don't yet see any info on the genuine website regarding the specs of the Hooligan. Care to direct me towards it, Burton?

Southerner · Post by **Southerner** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:55 am

Wolfhound wrote:Nonsense, Southerner. It is the reason i use here at home every time I buy another scoot. Never know when gas will go to $10.00 a gallon do we??

Yeah, but that's just the excuse we use to convince ourselves.

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:47 am

But it works, Southerner, it works!!!

ggs34 · Post by **ggs34** » Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:50 pm

so does any one know how much hp will the 170i have?

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:02 pm

pretty much whatever the buddy 170i does, 10hpish?

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:13 pm

Quick answer. to determine horsepower divide the CCs given by 16. In this case the Buddy 170i has 168.9 CCs divided by 16 equals 10.56 hp.

RoaringTodd · Post by **RoaringTodd** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:27 pm

Wolfhound wrote:Quick answer. to determine horsepower divide the CCs given by 16. In this case the Buddy 170i has 168.9 CCs divided by 16 equals 10.56 hp.

SYM 200 EVO - 171.2 cc

Following your formula, HP should be 10.69

Alliance Powersports, the distributor of the SYM 200 EVO has listed on their website for the HD200 15.3 HP @ 8000 rpm.

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:54 pm

Todd, I got my formula on line from a formula shown for figuring automotive
conversion of CCs to HP. I will double check. In researching my antique Honda CB400A I have found published HPs from 24 to 30 hp for it. Dont think that Genuine shows a HP rating. Could be that SYM is a bit optimistic. I will look
further thois evening.

jrstone · Post by **jrstone** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:28 pm

Wolfhound wrote:Todd, I got my formula on line from a formula shown for figuring automotive
conversion of CCs to HP. I will double check. In researching my antique Honda CB400A I have found published HPs from 24 to 30 hp for it. Dont think that Genuine shows a HP rating. Could be that SYM is a bit optimistic. I will look
further thois evening.

All CCs are not created equal. This formula makes no sense. There's a lot of factors that determine how much power an engine will make beyond displacement. Just another example here: Using the formula you found, A 2000cc Honda S2000 should make 125hp when in fact it actually produces 240hp.

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:09 am

JRStone, you are correct. Did some deeper investigation and found that there
are as many answers to the question and ultimately most are questionable.
For example: there is no relation. CCs are determined by volumn, HPs are determined by torque. And another: CCs do not directly correspond with HP
And perhaps the best: CCs only relate to size of motor, not the HP. There is
no true formula to measure by the perimeters.
The spec sheet for my TGB Laser R(i 150 cc scooter says that it creates 10.1 HP st 7500 rpm and has displacement of 151.1cc

Rusty J · Post by **Rusty J** » Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:50 am

Another horsepower issue: cooling.

The simple fan-forced air cooling used on these bikes puts a pretty hard upper limit as to how much power (and therefore, waste heat) the engine can produce.

At about 180 cc displacement you start hitting diminishing returns and liquid-cooling (water or oil or both) becomes worth the added complexity over a fan-forced air system.

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:49 am

GOOD POINT!!

Modern Buddy

Hooligan 170i

Hooligan 170i

Re: Hooligan 170i

Would love some olive green

Re: Hooligan 170i

new scoot