Looking at a Black Jack...but I'm skeptical.

james_gary · Post by **james_gary** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:51 pm

Found a 2009 BlackJack for sale...but I'm a little skeptical of it. It's on Craigslist for $1850, but I'm sure that could be talked down just a little.

However, why would someone take off the Buddy tag/ "1" on the "150"?

Here is a link to the listing: http://atlanta.craigslist.org/wat/mcy/4617154778.html

Post by **jrsjr** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:17 am

Many states have a loophole in their vehicle registration laws that allows 50cc vehicles (a "moped") to avoid titling, registration, and insurance. The Blackjack seller has altered the badge on his bike to say "50" for the purpose of fraudulently passing it off as a 50 CC vehicle. My state, Virginia, altered the law to allow traffic cops the option of busting folks who are travelling over 35 MPH on a supposed "moped" since they are, by definition, limited to 35 MPH. Since you now know that the seller engages in deceptive behavior, you should view any and all dealings with him/her with great care, if not downright suspicion.

Whimscootie · Post by **Whimscootie** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:18 am

Some might do it because in their state a 50cc, i.e., 49cc, does not require a license plate, insurance, or a motorcycle endorsement on your license to ride it. Kentucky fits that description, Ohio does not. What about Tennessee?

I would not buy from the guy as he is dishonest.

james_gary · Post by **james_gary** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:21 am

jrsjr wrote:Many states have a loophole in their vehicle registration laws that allows 50cc vehicles (a "moped") to avoid titling, registration, and insurance. The Blackjack seller has altered the badge on his bike to say "50" for the purpose of fraudulently passing it off as a 50 CC vehicle. My state, Virginia, altered the law to allow traffic cops the option of busting folks who are travelling over 35 MPH on a supposed "moped" since they are, by definition, limited to 35 MPH. Since you now know that the seller engages in deceptive behavior, you should view any and all dealings with him/her with great care, if not downright suspicion.

That's what I was thinking...I'm pretty suspicious. I'm making sure to be very thorough with questions about it.

ed85379 · Post by **ed85379** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:22 am

If you're worried that it might actually *be* a 50, then take it for a test-ride. Trust me, you'll know if it really is a BlackJack. It sure looks like one to me (said as a proud BlackJack owner), including the "aftermarket" exhaust (which is also not street legal in most states).

As for trusting the guy, again, take it for a test-ride. It is a completely different situation between lying to the government to avoid what they might consider over-enforcement, and being dishonest in general.

For all of those here saying not to trust the guy, do you park illegally on the sidewalks with your 150s? I sure do, and I always cover my scooter so the licence plate can't be seen, so I am less likely to get a ticket. Like they say... let the goodie-two-shoes who never even go faster than the speed limit throw the first stone.

Either way, it's a good price.

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:24 am

Avoid at all costs. When I checked it out on craigslist the guy admits that the 1 has been taken off and a rear shot of the scoot shows that it is not tagged. So the next question is does he even have a title for it. It could be stolen but more than likely here in GA he is avoiding the expense of tagging it, insuring it, and paying ad valorum taxes on it. If he is going to that extreme he should marked offthe to see list.

james_gary · Post by **james_gary** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:32 am

Wolfhound wrote:Avoid at all costs. When I checked it out on craigslist the guy admits that the 1 has been taken off and a rear shot of the scoot shows that it is not tagged. So the next question is does he even have a title for it. It could be stolen but more than likely here in GA he is avoiding the expense of tagging it, insuring it, and paying ad valorum taxes on it. If he is going to that extreme he should marked offthe to see list.

Thanks. Where did you get a TGB 150? I've seen some TGBs for sale every once in awhile...are they good quality?

skipper20 · Post by **skipper20** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:28 am

james_gary wrote:Found a 2009 BlackJack for sale...but I'm a little skeptical of it. It's on Craigslist for $1850, but I'm sure that could be talked down just a little.

However, why would someone take off the Buddy tag/ "1" on the "150"?

Here is a link to the listing: http://atlanta.craigslist.org/wat/mcy/4617154778.html

Most likely because he was too lazy or too stupid to take the MSF course to get the MC endorsement on his driver's license so he wants the world to think it's a 50cc moped not requiring such endorsement. OK, so he's a dishonest jerk but the only thing that counts is how does the scoot perform during a test ride. If it rides well and he can show you maintenance records confirming that it's been properly serviced during its lifetime, go for it as the price is certainly right. BTW, if GA vehicle titles and registration slips are anything like we have here in WA, they will clearly state that the model is a "Buddy 150". So, if the driver gets hit with a traffic stop, the officer will ask to see the vehicle's registration slip among other things and bingo, right then and there, he/she will see that it's a 150 and not a 50. Will there be consequences for taking the "1" off the scoot's model number? Maybe, maybe not. If it were me and I bought the scoot the only thing I would do is make sure I had the MC endorsement on my DL. That trumps the missing "1" for sure.

Bill in Seattle
'09 150 Blackjack
'12 170i Italia

james_gary · Post by **james_gary** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:40 am

I asked him if he had maintenance records, and he said no.

That's a no go for me.

Moving on...I'm looking at a Buddy right now. However, it looks like it has been sitting a lot. 600 miles and it's a 2009. $1750

2stroker · Post by **2stroker** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:47 am

Hmm, my bj doesn't have the 150 or 50 stickers on it....just the 2 aces stickers....did the bj even have the motor size sticker on it? Also, i kinda wonder why 2 aces and not an ace and a jack...maybe because most blackjack players looooove them some 2 aces dealt to them?
Any of you other bj owners have motor size stickers?

ed85379 · Post by **ed85379** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:22 am

2stroker wrote:Hmm, my bj doesn't have the 150 or 50 stickers on it....just the 2 aces stickers....did the bj even have the motor size sticker on it? Also, i kinda wonder why 2 aces and not an ace and a jack...maybe because most blackjack players looooove them some 2 aces dealt to them?
Any of you other bj owners have motor size stickers?

Actually, I don't think mine does. But really, the only difference between a regular 150 and a BJ is the exhaust, the tires, and the forks, so it could just as easily be a 150 "upgrades" to a BJ, and it's the same thing.

As for maintenance record keeping, who does that? I know I don't. I get the oil changed every 1000 miles, but I don't bother to keep the receipts. Then again, I never plan to sell.

Christophers · Post by **Christophers** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:48 am

ed85379 wrote: Actually, I don't think mine does. But really, the only difference between a regular 150 and a BJ is the exhaust, the tires, and the forks, so it could just as easily be a 150 "upgrades" to a BJ, and it's the same thing.

As for maintenance record keeping, who does that? I know I don't. I get the oil changed every 1000 miles, but I don't bother to keep the receipts. Then again, I never plan to sell.

And the brakes... and the rear shock... and the flat black body panels... and the solo seat.

The Blackjack and the Psycho were seriously good deals considering making the upgrades piecemeal aftermarket. :)

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:43 am

James, I bought mine from Mountain Moped, Jasper. GA.. I have had 2 TGB Deliverys and 1 R9. They are almost bullet proof. However, Peirspeed has quit pushing the product but still has a load of TGB R9i 150ccs in stock.
Since these are still in original packing the year does not matter.
Overall I would go with A Genuine Buddy. If you can find a 170i fuel injected that would be my choice. The fi canhandle ethanol gas better than the regular carbs do. I have a station in my area that sells 90 octane non ethanol gas at $4.40 a gallon. Having had and seen the problems that ethanol does to small engines it is worth it to me to pay more.

craftynerd · Post by **craftynerd** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:12 am

ed85379 wrote:
As for maintenance record keeping, who does that? I know I don't. I get the oil changed every 1000 miles, but I don't bother to keep the receipts. Then again, I never plan to sell.

I kept meticulous records with my first scooter, but with my Buddy? Nope. XD If I ever do sell mine, it's going to be through the shop I bought it from, and the shop owner knows I keep up on my maintenance, so that's good enough for me.

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:27 am

I keep records on all of mine but then again I am an old man with a bad memory.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:34 am

It might be a challenge for me to locate all the scraps of paper, but I at least have a spreadsheet with date, mileage, and service items / expenditures.

I have most of the receipts, but some tool / accessory / parts purchases were online, so I'd have to visit the various sites and print 'em out.

My new old scoot came with paper going back to 1980. Typewritten receipts, no less.

Whimscootie · Post by **Whimscootie** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:02 pm

After reading the other posts I've changed my mind.

If the bike looks good and runs good, I'd advise going for it if you like it.

If you can verify that it IS a 150cc Black Jack (or at least a 150), then 600 miles is nothing on it, even if it has been sitting awhile.

I just bought a 2010 Honda that has sat for 4 years. I took the advice of others and drained and replaced all the fluids and it runs like a new one.

And I don't recall any BJ scoots having "150" on them anywhere either.

If I bought it I'd remove the "..50" insignia anyway.

Also, I'd offer him $1600 cash in hand for it. That price seems high. Buddy 150s are listed in my area for a lot less on CL.

Let us know what you decide...

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:03 pm

I keep all my service records, but that's so I know what was done, not because I plan on selling it. They have so little retail value compared to MSRP. It's not a harley...

That said, the guy might have debadged it for parking. I did that on mine. Doesn't make me a horrible person, I just don't want to pay $200/mo for parking!

if it rides well and looks to be in good shape, that's still a good deal.

james_gary · Post by **james_gary** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:05 pm

Whimscootie wrote:After reading the other posts I've changed my mind.

If the bike looks good and runs good, I'd advise going for it if you like it.

If you can verify that it IS a 150cc Black Jack (or at least a 150), then 600 miles is nothing on it, even if it has been sitting awhile.

I just bought a 2010 Honda that has sat for 4 years. I took the advice of others and drained and replaced all the fluids and it runs like a new one.

And I don't recall any BJ scoots having "150" on them anywhere either.

If I bought it I'd remove the "..50" insignia anyway.

Also, I'd offer him $1600 cash in hand for it. That price seems high. Buddy 150s are listed in my area for a lot less on CL.

Let us know what you decide...

The guy said he had someone else looking to buy it, and he is closer...so I think he'll probably get it before I have an opportunity to make the drive to Atlanta.

However, I'm still looking at a 2009 Stella 2T that is in my town. http://nashville.craigslist.org/mcy/4621059962.html
I feel like if I could get the Stella for 1900 it would be a good deal, and I don't have to travel to get it!

bluebessie · Post by **bluebessie** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:09 pm

skully93 wrote:I keep all my service records, but that's so I know what was done, not because I plan on selling it. They have so little retail value compared to MSRP. It's not a harley...

That said, the guy might have debadged it for parking. I did that on mine. Doesn't make me a horrible person, I just don't want to pay $200/mo for parking!

if it rides well and looks to be in good shape, that's still a good deal.

I admit I am considering removing the 170i at least on mine for parking. Yeah I know illegal but it irks me that a 150cc can park on a sidewalk but my same looking, but 18cc larger engine can not.

So I cannot say they are evil just for that.

Some states have different rules for what a scooter is. Some probably want to avoid getting their motorcycle endorsement, having to register it or even park it.

I wouldn't discount a scooter simply for that.

Swordsman · Post by **Swordsman** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:43 pm

Service records? I don't keep no stinkin' service records!

Unless you count the little window clings that remind you of your next oil change. Does that mean it's ragged out? Certainly not. I'm CONSTANTLY servicing my vehicles. But I'm not writing a memoir about it. Do we only purchase from people that label their leftovers now?

(j/k, of course)

~SM

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:04 pm

I take advantage of Fuelly's ability to add notes to the vehicle's history, and I record such things as new tires, bearings, seals, battery etc. I do this as an aid to myself in recalling when and if I changed something so that I can tell if it's acting up/wearing out prematurely or due to age. If I do happen to have a meticulous buyer, it's easy enough to print out a summary for them.

The Helix has a nice oil change reminder window that runs off the ODO so I don't need to keep track of that. Every 1200 miles it goes from green to red.

james_gary · Post by **james_gary** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:22 pm

He said that he would sell it for $1600.

Looks like I will be making a drive in the next week or two.

KrispyKreme · Post by **KrispyKreme** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:20 pm

james_gary wrote:He said that he would sell it for $1600.

Looks like I will be making a drive in the next week or two.

Give it a good looking-over and if it looks good I say go for it.$1600 for that mileage is good. I wouldn't necessarily put much stock in the "Buddy 50" sticker. Feel the guy out. From the pictures it looks like it was taken care of.

james_gary · Post by **james_gary** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:28 pm

KrispyKreme wrote:
james_gary wrote:He said that he would sell it for $1600.

Looks like I will be making a drive in the next week or two.

Give it a good looking-over and if it looks good I say go for it.$1600 for that mileage is good. I wouldn't necessarily put much stock in the "Buddy 50" sticker. Feel the guy out. From the pictures it looks like it was taken care of.

I'll probably debadge it anyways. Put some Star Wars stickers on it.

KrispyKreme · Post by **KrispyKreme** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:59 pm

I took all the stickers off my Buddy first thing. Star Wars stickers could look cool on the matte black panels. It could have that whole Vader image. Good luck.

MrCelloBoy · Post by **MrCelloBoy** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:03 pm

He may have removed the 1 to fool unsuspecting cycles.

I had a Subaru WRX Wagon that was so quick off the line that I put a 60's style V8 badge on the rear so Vette owners wouldn't feel so bad.

; )

james_gary · Post by **james_gary** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:04 pm

KrispyKreme wrote:I took all the stickers off my Buddy first thing. Star Wars stickers could look cool on the matte black panels. It could have that whole Vader image. Good luck.

Thanks, mate. I appreciate all of the help I've received around here.

I'm torn between the BlackJack and the 2009 2T Stella. I absolutely hate automatic cars, all I drive are stick shift, so I am naturally drawn to a manual scooter. Decisions decisions.

snoozy · Post by **snoozy** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:50 pm

Don't be in a hurry. Another Buddy will come available. Don't buy from someone you don't trust. Even though it is hard to know if you can trust anybody on craigslist, but you are already having doubts, so trust your gut.

KrispyKreme · Post by **KrispyKreme** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:29 pm

snoozy wrote:Don't be in a hurry. Another Buddy will come available. Don't buy from someone you don't trust. Even though it is hard to know if you can trust anybody on craigslist, but you are already having doubts, so trust your gut.

Meh.....He took the "1" off the sticker. It you let that be a deal-breaker for getting an awesome scoot like the BJ it's a mistake IMHO.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:57 pm

Everyone lies under some circumstances, so I wouldn't assume that someone lying to the government about their vehicle classification is lying to me about its history and condition. Furthermore, it'd be trivially easy to fake up a log of when he supposedly had the oil changed; "I don't have records" is being honest.

james_gary · Post by **james_gary** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:08 pm

TVB wrote:Everyone lies under some circumstances, so I wouldn't assume that someone lying to the government about their vehicle classification is lying to me about its history and condition. Furthermore, it'd be trivially easy to fake up a log of when he supposedly had the oil changed; "I don't have records" is being honest.

I asked him some stuff about it yesterday, and in the end he seems to be pretty honest about everything. Next weekend, if everything goes well, I'll be the owner of a Blackjack! I'll post pictures if it happens! (Pics or it didn't happen, right?!)

Whimscootie · Post by **Whimscootie** » Sat Aug 23, 2014 4:07 am

james_gary wrote:He said that he would sell it for $1600.

Looks like I will be making a drive in the next week or two.

And if he will hold it for you maybe offer a little ''good faith'' deposit on PayPal to seal the deal and relieve any anxiety about it being bought out from under you.

And we expect an update....and pics!

Modern Buddy

Looking at a Black Jack...but I'm skeptical.

Looking at a Black Jack...but I'm skeptical.

Re: Looking at a Black Jack...but I'm skeptical.