considering buying a scooter-help me decide :)

Discussion of the Genuine Buddy, Hooligan, Black Jack and other topics, both scooter related and not

Moderator: Modern Buddy Staff

Post Reply
carolina1681
Member
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:54 pm
Location: columbia,sc

considering buying a scooter-help me decide :)

Post by carolina1681 »

Hello everyone
I"m considering buying a new Buddy either a 125 or 170
The scooter will be a second vehicle and I commute 15 miles one way-no highways.
Are there any major issues/quirks with the 125 or 170?

Thanks,Cindy
User avatar
skully93
Member
Posts: 2597
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:54 pm
Location: Denver CO

Post by skully93 »

Congrats on a fine idea!

You can't go wrong with either one. You might find better deals on used 125's. There's not a ton of difference, though the 170i is fuel injected, which is heavenly.

Neither have major issues. You can look through the tech library.

There are questions I would ask myself if I knew what I wanted a few years ago:

1) what is it I want to do with this, and will I want to go on longer trips sometimes? (you probably will).

2) Am I prepared to take a safety class?

3) am I prepared to buy far too much scooter gear in order to be a) safe, b) comfortable, and c) look good?

4) am I prepared to learn to do some basic maintenance, or have a good chunk set aside just in case?

5) am I prepared to be an active participant in my environment while I smell the air, but also experience things like rain, wind, road hazards, and the exposed idiocy of others?

6) am I f'n awesome?

With just a few simple tools and the magic of youtube, you can change your oil and do a lot of basic maintenance yourself. They are very reliable little buggers by scooter standards, but small engines of any kind can decide to be finicky just to mock you.

Good luck!
Image
TVB

Post by TVB »

The biggest quirk with either the 125 or 170 is a tendency to cause the owner to invent small errands to run, as reasons why it's necessary to get on the scooter and ride somewhere. Just yesterday I discovered that I didn't have the brand of beer in the fridge that I thought I did, so I had to ride to the store to get a six-pack of the right kind. :)

Seriously, they're both solid, reliable machines. There are 125s with tens of thousands of miles on them; the 170 is a newer model, so there aren't many high-mileage ones out there ... yet.
User avatar
charlie55
Member
Posts: 1924
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:47 pm
Location: New Jersey

Post by charlie55 »

TVB wrote:The biggest quirk with either the 125 or 170 is a tendency to cause the owner to invent small errands to run, as reasons why it's necessary to get on the scooter and ride somewhere. Just yesterday I discovered that I didn't have the brand of beer in the fridge that I thought I did, so I had to ride to the store to get a six-pack of the right kind. :)

Seriously, they're both solid, reliable machines. There are 125s with tens of thousands of miles on them; the 170 is a newer model, so there aren't many high-mileage ones out there ... yet.
If you were really hardcore, you'd have made six trips @ 1 can each. :wink:
Image
User avatar
snoozy
Member
Posts: 173
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:27 pm
Location: Kitsap Co, WA

Post by snoozy »

The 125 has substantially more room for storage under the seat than the 170i. (For that all important 6-pack of a particular brand of beer...)
User avatar
snoozy
Member
Posts: 173
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:27 pm
Location: Kitsap Co, WA

Post by snoozy »

Oh -- no need to buy new. Used Buddies are just fine. Lots of them on craigslist. I got mine for $1,000, in near mint condition with 1700 miles on it.

If you don't think you will need to go on freeways, and only need to go 55mph occasionally, a 125 will be cheaper to get and cheaper to run, and the nice storage is a big plus. A bit lighter to pick up, I think. It is really nice to be able to lock my full helmet under the seat.
User avatar
wheelbender6
Member
Posts: 852
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2013 1:27 am
Location: Houston area

Post by wheelbender6 »

I have owned a buddy 125 for about 18 months; commuting to work and hauling it to the country on occasion for rural riding. It has no bad habits. My wife also owns one. If there were ANY problems with her buddy, I would promptly be made aware of them,
Image
2013 Buddy 125, Prima Pipe, #95 main jet, Orange CDI
TVB

Post by TVB »

charlie55 wrote:If you were really hardcore, you'd have made six trips @ 1 can each. :wink:
You misunderstand: I live in Grand Rapids, Michigan. I drink beer that comes in bottles. :)
User avatar
DeeDee
Member
Posts: 1100
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:07 pm
Location: Denver

Re: considering buying a scooter-help me decide :)

Post by DeeDee »

carolina1681 wrote:Hello everyone
I"m considering buying a new Buddy either a 125 or 170
The scooter will be a second vehicle and I commute 15 miles one way-no highways.
Are there any major issues/quirks with the 125 or 170?

Thanks,Cindy
Hi Cindy, You're near sea level with a fairly mild climate? IMO the 125 would be the scooter of choice. It's a time tested design w/ near bullet proof engine. Used, the 125 will be a $grand or less than the 170i. As long as you ride the scooter on a regular basis, and use sea foam in the gas once in a while, you can expect years of trouble free pleasure. :)
User avatar
Dooglas
Moderator
Posts: 4368
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:17 am
Location: Oregon City, OR

Post by Dooglas »

TVB wrote:You misunderstand: I live in Grand Rapids, Michigan. I drink beer that comes in bottles. :)
Cans? Bottles? You mean it is possible obtain beer in small containers? (I thought you just asked the guy at the BrewPub to fill your growler if you wanted to take some home :wink: )
User avatar
charlie55
Member
Posts: 1924
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:47 pm
Location: New Jersey

Post by charlie55 »

Dooglas wrote:
TVB wrote:You misunderstand: I live in Grand Rapids, Michigan. I drink beer that comes in bottles. :)
Cans? Bottles? You mean it is possible obtain beer in small containers? (I thought you just asked the guy at the BrewPub to fill your growler if you wanted to take some home :wink: )
Ha growlers - haven't heard that in ages. Back in Brooklyn, you used to be able to get "beer in tubes". They're those wax-lined cardboard containers that take-out restaurants use for soup. I can also remember a couple of bars that had separate entrances and areas for men and women.
Image
TVB

Post by TVB »

Dooglas wrote:
TVB wrote:You misunderstand: I live in Grand Rapids, Michigan. I drink beer that comes in bottles. :)
Cans? Bottles? You mean it is possible obtain beer in small containers? (I thought you just asked the guy at the BrewPub to fill your growler if you wanted to take some home :wink: )
That's always an option, but when every decent party store stocks 6-packs from Founders, Bell's, and New Holland, that's usually more convenient.
carolina1681
Member
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:54 pm
Location: columbia,sc

Post by carolina1681 »

Thanks to all for your input :)
Meli'
Member
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:38 pm
Location: san diego, ca

The 170i vs 125 or 150

Post by Meli' »

I am still saving and looking every day to either find that perfect deal or finally buy the "Brit 170i" (which I am admittedly fond of). I live in San Diego, CA..a town not 'country road' like in any way. The idea of riding freely is so enticing! I have spent ample time vacillating between "vespa" and " Genuine" that I am exhausted; and I am ready to admit that I think Genuine is the more intelligent way to go! I want enough power to get out of any 'bad' traffic situation and yet still enjoy the ride...am I correct in my thinking about the 170i as the way to go? Pls advise me honestly ! (I also have 2 daughters who think getting a ride with me is cool!)....
Meli'
Member
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:38 pm
Location: san diego, ca

The 170i vs 125 or 150

Post by Meli' »

I am still saving and looking every day to either find that perfect deal or finally buy the "Brit 170i" (which I am admittedly fond of). I live in San Diego, CA..a town not 'country road' like in any way. The idea of riding freely is so enticing! I have spent ample time vacillating between "vespa" and " Genuine" that I am exhausted; and I am ready to admit that I think Genuine is the more intelligent way to go! I want enough power to get out of any 'bad' traffic situation and yet still enjoy the ride...am I correct in my thinking about the 170i as the way to go? Pls advise me honestly ! (I also have 2 daughters who think getting a ride with me is cool!)....
still shifting
Member
Posts: 637
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:18 pm
Location: New Mexico

Post by still shifting »

If you buy the 170 you wont have to up grade. If you by the 125 you cave an excuse to upgrade or get a second sxooter. R
User avatar
DeeDee
Member
Posts: 1100
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:07 pm
Location: Denver

Post by DeeDee »

I have both. I weigh over 200 lbs, so I got the 170i for better hill climbing power, but honestly the 125 is an incredible scooter. The carburetor on the 125 is a very reliable and inexpensive system. It is fairly easy to work on and diagnose in case of problems. The 170i does not have a kick start which the 125 does. I miss the kick start for a couple of reasons mainly being able to use it to get to top dead center for valve adjustments. The 125 is a fast nimble scooter. You probably don't weigh as much as I do. A 125 would probably suit your needs just fine.
MYSCTR
Member
Posts: 1007
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:39 pm
Location: McKinney Texas

Buddy 125 vs 170i

Post by MYSCTR »

Buddy 125 vs 170i

We have owned and ridden both the 125 and 170, and even the 150. With just over 3500 miles on my 170, I am not convinced it is in any way better or faster than either the 125 or 150. I have not been out on the open road to fully test the top end or push it to see what we can get out of it.

With two 170's in the family, we have not had any reason to want the kick-start like the 125 & 150’s. We really do like the reliable start and idle we get every time we start the 170 from warmer temps to sub freezing it has not been a problem even with having connected the deadlights with the BOB light mod (both as running lights & blinkers) and added the back off brake mod. As a test, we commute 8 miles each way, 4-5 times a week, plus longer rides on the weekends and HAVE NOT used a trickle charger to keep the battery fully topped off. The daily commute is mostly split between 45-50 Bmph.

Both my wife (150 and our daughter (125) have had to kick start their scooters so we wired the pig tail so they can easliy be put on the trickle charger overnight once a week or so. When my wife was commuting on her Buddy, we had to top it off once a week or she would need to kick start it, which was always hard for her.

When we were all riding 125/150 Buddy scooters, the 125 never fell behind the 150’s, even when I might jump off the line WOT, they always caught up in a short distance. The 125 just feels a bit leaner, yet runs just as good as any other Buddy out there. The 125 could be the perfect affordable first scooter that will give you years of service with simple basic maintenance that your local shop can do for you if you really want to ride it worry free. The first thing I would recommend is getting the trickle charger pigtail hooked up for peace of mind. Of course, try to get in the habit of using it once a week.
Image
User avatar
Dooglas
Moderator
Posts: 4368
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:17 am
Location: Oregon City, OR

Re: Buddy 125 vs 170i

Post by Dooglas »

MYSCTR wrote: The 125 could be the perfect affordable first scooter that will give you years of service with simple basic maintenance.
I couldn't agree more. We have had our 2007 Buddy 125 for 8 years now. It still runs great and has never given us a problem.
User avatar
ravenlore
Member
Posts: 528
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:30 pm
Location: Minneapolis MN

Post by ravenlore »

skully93 wrote:...


3) am I prepared to buy far too much scooter gear in order to be a) safe, b) comfortable, and c) look good?

...



Truer words were never spoken/typed.
Image
COYOTE102076
Member
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:40 pm

Post by COYOTE102076 »

I can not give any opinion on the 125's, as I have never rode one.
I did however take the Buddy 170i for a test ride the same day I bought my RH50. And although not impressive power, the 170 was not bad.
Obviously way better than the 50's.
I wanted to say this though, the Buddy 170i was one of the quietest and
smoothest running bikes I have ever rode. Motorcycle or scooter!
Was just a very pleasant overall experience.
bigmike7801
Member
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:02 pm
Location: Vancouver WA

Post by bigmike7801 »

I test drove a new 125 and 170i back to back.

I am 6'3 285 pounds and I could tell the difference between the 125 and 170 as far acceleration goes. The 170 definitely felt like it had more thrust and oomph off of the starting line which is big to me.

I only drove the scooters around the streets of downtown Portland and never got either scooter up to "top speed" so I couldn't say with certainty that the 170 is substantially faster than the 125.

If I had the money to buy a either, I personally would go with the 170i because I'm bigger and want that extra power especially for hills. However if money is a factor I would really consider picking up a used 125 or 150 off of Craigslist or maybe your local dealer has a good deal on a used one.
GregsBuddy
Member
Posts: 509
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:36 pm
Location: North SF Bay

Post by GregsBuddy »

There's no replacement for displacement = 170i
MYSCTR
Member
Posts: 1007
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:39 pm
Location: McKinney Texas

Post by MYSCTR »

GregsBuddy wrote:There's no replacement for displacement = 170i
Ya ya ya I hear you BUT I want it to perform at least as good as the other scoots we have had. They have all been Buddy's, both 125 & 150.

This weekend was encouraging a few time we opened it up to and from the parade in Dallas. We will see.
Image
GregsBuddy
Member
Posts: 509
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:36 pm
Location: North SF Bay

Post by GregsBuddy »

"I have not been out on the open road to fully test the top end or push it to see what we can get out of it."
MYSCTR
Member
Posts: 1007
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:39 pm
Location: McKinney Texas

There's no replacement for displacement = 170i

Post by MYSCTR »

GregsBuddy wrote:"I have not been out on the open road to fully test the top end or push it to see what we can get out of it."
Just saying the jury is still out. We hit 78 Bmph running south on I-75 in Dallas below SMU, flowing with traffic and had more throttle left on my daughters 5 year old stock125.

Don't feel that in the new 170 but maybe she will wake up. We did run 72 Bmph this past weekend… although I EXPECT better.

The only real testing so far has been focussed on running both the BOB deadlights and rear back off brake to see if the battery would hold up through winter because we have a daughter riding the same set up in snow country and we don't want her stranded. She uses the trickle charger as a safety yet I don't to really test the system. Both have performed flawlessly.

What I am looking for is to see if my new(er) 170 will spank my old 150, or even my wife's 2009 150 'cause that would mean she needs a new scoot and the 170 would be worth the upgrade. Otherwise it is a waste of money.

"I am not convinced it is in any way better or faster than either the 125 or 150"

What kind of experience do you have with the 125 and 150? What can GregsBuddy do?
Image
GregsBuddy
Member
Posts: 509
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:36 pm
Location: North SF Bay

Post by GregsBuddy »

Still breaking in my 170 and am unlikely to ever see what its top speed is.
Have owned many 'scoots and sport bikes and have not seen too many times where larger displacement didn't equal more power even if it was just a "fatter" torque curve giving better low speed performance instead of higher top speed.
For example, a MotoGuzzi V11 Le Mans is only slightly faster than a Suzuki SV650, if at all, from experience.
The 125, 150 & 170 may all have the same top speed if the gear rations are the same. This is because more power does not mean more RPM's, for example/ I would expect however, that the 170 would get to top speed faster than the 125.
Blah, blah, blah...
Last edited by GregsBuddy on Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
MYSCTR
Member
Posts: 1007
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:39 pm
Location: McKinney Texas

Post by MYSCTR »

So the bottom line as far as performance goes is that buying a 170 rather than a 125 (or owning the older 150) is simply to gain a few seconds off the line? Then our recommendation after owning and riding each Buddy (125/150/170) when asked is the 125 is just about perfect in about every situation especially if they are budget conscious or a casual rider, although the 170 doesn’t suck.

The 170 may be the better choice if the daily user is close to or over 200 pounds, tends to “race” everywhere they ride or feel the need to beat every other car on the road or maybe just has a huge pile of cash or an ego that says they got to have the biggest baddest Buddy or they just got a great deal on one. We do like the way the 170 starts up every time and idles just perfect and with our daughter at a higher elevation (5,000’) it was suggested the fuel injection (170) would be better for her.

Personally I want the higher top end, I don’t need to pull wheelies every time I take off. If the 170 can’t at least perform as well as the others or a bit more on the top end (higher max speed) then I would be very disappointed. That is what I have been waiting for yet my daily commute doesn’t give me any opportunity to push it legally or safely and the 170 is plenty quick off the line and runs 45-60 Bmph just fine on my route. As spring breaks we will get out more and see what comes after 60 and what will it take to hit 80 (Bmph).

Thanks for your input, we are expecting the 170 has a bit more top speed as well.
Image
User avatar
PeteH
Member
Posts: 2281
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:32 pm
Location: 3603mi SE of Dutch Harbor

Post by PeteH »

I don't know if it makes a real empirical difference, but I'm glad for the oil cooler in my 150 (the 170's got it, too). That's the only real difference between the 125 and 150, other than the displacement. I'd like to think it helps under heavier load or in hotter weather.
Feel da rhythm! Feel da rhyme! Get on up! It's Buddy Time!
GregsBuddy
Member
Posts: 509
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:36 pm
Location: North SF Bay

Post by GregsBuddy »

As MYSCTR notes, the EFI is very nice and may be worth the extra $'s, or not...
User avatar
BuddyRaton
Scooter Dork
Posts: 3887
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 10:08 pm
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
Contact:

Post by BuddyRaton »

PeteH wrote:I don't know if it makes a real empirical difference, but I'm glad for the oil cooler in my 150 (the 170's got it, too). That's the only real difference between the 125 and 150, other than the displacement. I'd like to think it helps under heavier load or in hotter weather.
And the crank length with the 125 being longer and kicking in a little extra torque.

In reality there isn't that much performance difference between the "old" 125s and the 170s. And well...displacement really isn't always everything. (I'll put my Malossi 166 up against a DR 177 any day of the week.) The main factor these scooters respond to is weight. "Larger" riders are not going to get the same performance and handling as "smaller" riders no matter what bike it is.

For basic good reliable transportation I still think a Buddy 125 is the best bang for the buck you can get. Yeah there is a problem once in a while but they are basically bullet proof. I mean you can just ride the snot out of them and they come back at you with "that's all you got?"

As for riding 2 up I think there are better choices. A Buddy is really tight for 2. I've done it for short trips but a long ride would not be fun. A Blur 220i is great 2 up.

I also would not hesitate to buy used. If you are not familiar with scooters have a friend come along that is to check it out or pay a shop for an hour of labor to go over it.
"Things fall apart - it's scientific" - David Byrne
www.teamscootertrash.com

'06 Cream Buddy 125, 11 Blur 220, 13 BMW C 650 GT, 68 Vespa SS180, 64 Vespa GS MK II, 65 Lambretta TV 175, 67 Vespa GT, 64 Vespa 150 VBB 64 Vespa GL
User avatar
PeteH
Member
Posts: 2281
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:32 pm
Location: 3603mi SE of Dutch Harbor

Post by PeteH »

Argh - forgot the crank, BR! You're right!
Feel da rhythm! Feel da rhyme! Get on up! It's Buddy Time!
User avatar
BuddyRaton
Scooter Dork
Posts: 3887
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 10:08 pm
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
Contact:

Post by BuddyRaton »

GregsBuddy wrote:As MYSCTR notes, the EFI is very nice and may be worth the extra $'s, or not...
EFI is nice...but so is a kickstart. It hasn't happened often, and has always been my fault, but the kickstart has come in handy a few times.

I think it's a wash, kickstart is nice, EFI is nice. Lack of a kickstart is not a big deal, carbs are simpler reliable systems.

I ride both and really wouldn't let this factor very much in my decision.
"Things fall apart - it's scientific" - David Byrne
www.teamscootertrash.com

'06 Cream Buddy 125, 11 Blur 220, 13 BMW C 650 GT, 68 Vespa SS180, 64 Vespa GS MK II, 65 Lambretta TV 175, 67 Vespa GT, 64 Vespa 150 VBB 64 Vespa GL
GregsBuddy
Member
Posts: 509
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:36 pm
Location: North SF Bay

Post by GregsBuddy »

I would really like EFI AND a kickstarter, FWIW.
User avatar
BuddyRaton
Scooter Dork
Posts: 3887
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 10:08 pm
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
Contact:

Post by BuddyRaton »

GregsBuddy wrote:I would really like EFI AND a kickstarter, FWIW.
Kind of tough to do. The EFI needs electricity to run the ecu, fuel pump, etc...so you can kick an EFI but without the E it doesn't know what is going on.

As long as the spark is getting there at the right time a carbed motor doesn't really care what is going on with the electrical system. As soon as you kick it the flywheel is turning sending a spark.

Many of my vintage scooters don't have a battery. Many have a battery to provide lighting if the motor is shut down and for no other reason.
"Things fall apart - it's scientific" - David Byrne
www.teamscootertrash.com

'06 Cream Buddy 125, 11 Blur 220, 13 BMW C 650 GT, 68 Vespa SS180, 64 Vespa GS MK II, 65 Lambretta TV 175, 67 Vespa GT, 64 Vespa 150 VBB 64 Vespa GL
GregsBuddy
Member
Posts: 509
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:36 pm
Location: North SF Bay

Post by GregsBuddy »

On the other hand the starter is the only thing that the engine is waiting for once the key is in the "ON" position. The 'scoot doesn't care how it's spun over, starter or manual.
Fuel, check.
Spark, check (with or without spinning the engine, probably needs battery for spark like most modern vehicles).
Let's go!
User avatar
jd
Member
Posts: 206
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:08 pm
Location: Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky

Post by jd »

We have a 125 and a 150, although we have ridden a 170. As was stated early in this thread, you can't go wrong with any of them.

I have needed the kick start too many times to not appreciate its availability. For that reason alone, I prefer the bikes with carbs, hence the 170i is less attractive to me.

Depending on where you ride, the difference in displacement can make a difference, however. We were riding in northern Michigan, which actually has some hills, and we had two 125s at the time. One of us (and I'm not going to say which one) outweighs the other by about 50 lbs., and was struggling to get up the hill in a 45 MPH zone, losing about 10 MPH while climbing. So we upgraded that bike to a 150, and the difference in pulling power on hills is SIGNIFICANT.

On level terrain, and for your kind of riding, I don't think the displacement will matter. If you plan to climb hills, however, bigger might, indeed, be better.

At the end of the day, however, if you're going to buy used, then just keep an eye out for a Buddy in good shape for a reasonable price, and buy whichever model comes along. Statistically speaking, that's likely to be a 125 just because there are so many more of them out there.
Some people are like slinkies. They're not very interesting, but they bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.
Post Reply