Break in n00b questions

Post by **jmazza** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:55 am

I did some searches but can't quite find what I'm looking for. If I'm not searching for the right things and someone can point me to relevant searches, please do (and I apologize for posting questions again!).

I just took delivery of my Buddy! I rode it for about 20 miles today just around the neighborhood and in some parking lots getting the feel.

I've read a lot of conflicting info on the break-in period (and maybe that's because it's a subject with many opinions rather than concrete answers?) and so I figured I'd post here although I'm sure the info is here on the forum somewhere!

My dealer said this:

Keep it under 35 for the first 100 miles (varying the speed often- not keeping it at one speed too long)

Keep it under 45 for the second 100 miles (again varying the speed)

He said that the first oil change/service/check up is at 500 miles and told me not to miss it or be late.

However, I've read that the first oil change (and I think this is even in the manual) should be around 200 miles. I've also read here that the first service must be done by a Genuine dealer so as to not void the warranty. I don't see anything about that on my warranty card, though I will be doing my service at a dealer.

Finally, I also read about a different, controversial break-in method which advocates WOT for the break in.

Today, I kept it under 35 for the most part but did hit a bit higher for a very little bit (circling out of the neighborhood onto a road with a 45 mph speed limit.

Where can I find conclusive instructions on how to handle the break-in period?

Thanks- again I apologize in advance because I'm SURE this info exists here, I just haven't found the right search string to mine it.

OH- and WOW the Buddy is a TOTAL BLAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

vitaminC · Post by **vitaminC** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:08 am

Congrat's on your new purchase!

jmazza wrote: Where can I find conclusive instructions on how to handle the break-in period?

Sorry, but you can't.

Post by **jmazza** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:18 am

vitaminC wrote:Congrat's on your new purchase!

jmazza wrote: Where can I find conclusive instructions on how to handle the break-in period?
Sorry, but you can't.

Haha!!

I knew it!!!

I had a feeling- it seems to be a pretty hotly debated topic! Any word on whether I need to do an oil change at 200 or am I good to wait until 500? My dealer seems to be really good - but also of the mindset of "this is how we always do it" rather than specific instructions according to what Genuine might say. They also told me a couple riding tips that were contrary to proper technique that I've read. I know they've been around scoots for a long time and I think they have a lot of knowledge, I'd just hate to mess up my Buddy at the outset!

Keys · Post by **Keys** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:54 am

Here's the key to break-in. Don't hold it at a steady rpm or speed for any length of time.

Some break them in easy, some (like me) break them in hard...but the common concensus is, do NOT maintain steady rpms. I haven't heard of a single Buddy failure attributed to any particular style of break-in as long as this single requirement was adhered to.

Enjoy scooting.

--Keys

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:05 am

Genuine's early official word was to do the first maintenance at 200 miles but it's widely agreed that 500 miles is better. You can go over a bit, but should plan ahead to get it done around that point.

There are a lot of opinions on breaking in a scoot—hard break-in vs. soft, whether it necessary at all, and what procedures should be followed. But these things seem to be the most commonly-agreed on: vary your speed/RPMs (don't cruise at one steady speed); keep under 80% throttle (don't twist it wide open, regardless of the urge to do so).

I've never heard of such specific speeds (under 35, under 45) recommended.

gt1000 · Post by **gt1000** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:23 am

Every moto forum dances this dance at least a few times every year. It's like asking which oil is better. There is no absolute answer.

I'm pretty conservative when it comes to my machines so I tend to loosely follow the manufacturer's recommendations. That said, I also mix in certain techniques that I've come to trust over the years. Most have already been covered but the key points are these:

*Avoid full throttle for anything more than a "brief" period.
*For the first few hundred miles, try to fully warm up your new engine every time you start it. When you shut down, shut down for an extended time period to cool as fully as possible.
*Accelerate up hills to load the engine and seat the rings.
*Constantly vary speed and throttle opening.

At least one of these recommendations could be termed an "old wive's tale" or BS, take your pick. All I can say is, old habits die hard. Especially when those habits had positive results.

Post by **jmazza** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:38 pm

gt1000 wrote: *Avoid full throttle for anything more than a "brief" period.
*For the first few hundred miles, try to fully warm up your new engine every time you start it. When you shut down, shut down for an extended time period to cool as fully as possible.
*Accelerate up hills to load the engine and seat the rings.
*Constantly vary speed and throttle opening.

thanks everyone... this (above) is pretty much what I gathered from all that I'd read- it's the most consistently mentioned list of things to do.

I think my dealer probably mentioned speeds because it's a littler easier to determine than throttle amounts.

The only one of the above I can't do is accelerate up hills... I live in Florida.

gt1000 · Post by **gt1000** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:03 pm

The only one of the above I can't do is accelerate up hills... I live in Florida.

My daughter lived in Ft. Lauderdale for 2 years so I know this all too well.

I have 4 words for you:

Multilevel parking garage ramps.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:34 pm

gt1000 wrote:
The only one of the above I can't do is accelerate up hills... I live in Florida.
My daughter lived in Ft. Lauderdale for 2 years so I know this all too well.

I have 4 words for you:

Multilevel parking garage ramps.

Or loading docks. Lot's of loading docks!

Christy · Post by **Christy** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:59 am

gt1000 wrote:When you shut down, shut down for an extended time period to cool as fully as possible.

does this mean to pop it onto the center stand and let it run idle for a few minutes before killing the engine? or something else?

I'm purchasing my buddy tomorrow and want to do it right!!!

Post by **jmazza** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:18 am

Christy wrote:
gt1000 wrote:When you shut down, shut down for an extended time period to cool as fully as possible.
does this mean to pop it onto the center stand and let it run idle for a few minutes before killing the engine? or something else?

I'm purchasing my buddy tomorrow and want to do it right!!!

No it means that when you are done riding, let the scooter cool down completely before starting it up again.

Have fun christy!!

Christy · Post by **Christy** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:24 am

jmazza wrote:No it means that when you are done riding, let the scooter cool down completely before starting it up again.

Have fun christy!!

excellent! thank you!!!

ScooterTrash · Post by **ScooterTrash** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:33 am

Christy wrote:
jmazza wrote:No it means that when you are done riding, let the scooter cool down completely before starting it up again.

Have fun christy!!
excellent! thank you!!!

I broke mine in hard and it runs like a champ. I just rode it hard for 20 miles, no steady rpm's and no high speeds (60+). I changed my oil at 300 and then to a syn blend at 1000, and i'm switching to full synthetic at 2000

I also recomend changing the tranny fluid again at 1000 (found metal at 1000 miles) I went to full synthetic mobil 1 75w 90

poop colored buddy · Post by **poop colored buddy** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:23 pm

non stick pam spray, I thought we have been over this before?

Christy · Post by **Christy** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:51 pm

poop colored buddy wrote:non stick pam spray, I thought we have been over this before?

LOL

I bought the Pamplona today. The dealer is installing the chrome rack, topcase and windscreen and then he's delivering it on Thursday.

i cannot wait!!!

Post by **jmazza** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:04 pm

Christy wrote:
poop colored buddy wrote:non stick pam spray, I thought we have been over this before?

LOL

I bought the Pamplona today. The dealer is installing the chrome rack, topcase and windscreen and then he's delivering it on Thursday.

i cannot wait!!!

YES!!!

Christy · Post by **Christy** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:05 pm

jmazza wrote:
Christy wrote:
poop colored buddy wrote:non stick pam spray, I thought we have been over this before?

LOL

I bought the Pamplona today. The dealer is installing the chrome rack, topcase and windscreen and then he's delivering it on Thursday.

i cannot wait!!!
YES!!!

i know, right!!!! She's so pretty.

EP_scoot · Post by **EP_scoot** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:46 pm

Christy, CONGRATS !
that is going to be a loooooong couple of days.

I wonder how many new scooter purchases will happen now that spring is almost here !

Christy · Post by **Christy** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:14 pm

EP_scoot wrote:Christy, CONGRATS !
that is going to be a loooooong couple of days.

I wonder how many new scooter purchases will happen now that spring is almost here !

oh man, don't i know it!!!

Scooter · Post by **Scooter** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:12 pm

No synthetic oils during the break-in period. After 1500 miles you're okay. Synthetics are too slick and wont allow the rings to seal properly.

There's no such thing as changing oil too early or too often during the break-in period. Getting your fluids changed at 200 and a full checkup (including another oil change) at 500 isn't a bad idea. Metal shavings are your worst enemy and you want them flushed out. Sometimes it takes several oil changes to get it all out.

Like others said, let it warm up before riding and don't keep it at constant rpms for too long.

I've read a lot about engine break-in techniques regarding motorcycles, and both sides of the fence (easy vs. hard break-in) have good arguments.

One thing to consider is that if you granny the throttle two much during break-in your rings wont seal well. What does that mean? Well, you'll get lower compression in the cylinder, which means less power. Secondly, oil will seep into the combustion chamber from around the rings. That means higher emissions and decreased engine life. Your plugs will get fouled up sooner as well.

But then a Buddy isn't built like Yamaha or a Ducati superbike, so breaking in TOO hard isn't a good idea.

When you are breaking in your engine, keep the throttle transitions smooth. Avoid heavy traffic/stop and go driving. From idle run up to a decent speed then ease off the throttle. Again don't sit at constant RPMs for too long. Find a big vacant parking lot nearby, or a seldom traveled side street for this. You don't want to spook drivers by letting off the throttle suddenly.

Good luck!

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:04 am

Is it ok since I ride at a steady 30mph in the public roads? I never knew you had to do all these things, I was just told to use 1/4th to 1/2th throttle and she'd be ok, i dont wanna ruin my poor buddy

golfinguy · Post by **golfinguy** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:07 am

jfrost2 wrote:Is it ok since I ride at a steady 30mph in the public roads? I never knew you had to do all these things, I was just told to use 1/4th to 1/2th throttle and she'd be ok, i dont wanna ruin my poor buddy

As Scooter noted (good post Scooter!), varying your speed and rpms is best. The idea is to work the engine throughout its range as much as possible so that everything seats well. long periods of steady speed/rpm when new is not the best thing.

For break in period, I say just drive it normally, but do try to avoid long stretches of steady state.

I have a friend who is a heavy duty mechanic for Caterpillar. FWIW, his philosophy on breaking in new machines is drive it like you stole it.

Dale.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:14 am

Will my buddy be alright? I take it on 10-15 minute rides in town at 30-35mph according to the speedo.

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:35 am

jfrost2 wrote:Will my buddy be alright? I take it on 10-15 minute rides in town at 30-35mph according to the speedo.

How many miles on your odometer?

The key is to rev your engine a bit, alter your rate of acceleration—more than your actual speed, it's your RPMs, although they're obviously related. Do what you can to keep it varied for the first 600 miles or so.

But if you haven't or can't, yes, your engine will probably be alright.

Post by **jrsjr** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:00 pm

ericalm wrote:Do what you can to keep it varied for the first 600 miles or so.

And riding around town is the obvious best way to do that, but if it's not possible, it's not possible.

ericalm wrote:But if you haven't or can't, yes, your engine will probably be alright.

+1 on that. The idea acording to the old-school break-in theory, is to vary the load on the motor during the break-in plus. Also, it's suggested to put the motor through "thermal cycling," which means to run it and then let it cool down and then run it and so on. Still, for a lot of folks, this just isn't practical and I have yet to hear specifically that a Buddy motor failed because it wasn't broken in exactly right. I'm curious, has anybody else heard or seen a counter-example?

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:44 pm

There is plenty of stop and go in my town so me accelerating and revving it through rpm's wont be a problem.

mpc0nsumer · Post by **mpc0nsumer** » Tue May 13, 2008 1:42 am

Just bought a Buddy 50cc a few weeks back, and love the ride! I'm at around 380 miles (riding 32 miles/day to and from work), on roads that range between 20 and 40 MPH. I've been pretty good about keeping the speed below 35 MPH, but I have been cruising at that speed for up to five minutes at a time.

So far, the buddy's been running great, but this morning, I noticed that it was idling low, and almost stalled out at a stop light. My check oil hasn't gone on yet, and I'm on my 3rd tank of gas; and I'm wondering whether I should add some oil to the engine, or just wait until the 500 mile check-up?

Generally speaking, with a 50cc engine, how often should oil be added? Only when the check oil light comes on, or more often? Should oil be added with *every* tank of gas?

I know this is a complete n00b question, but I don't want to screw up such a beautiful machine.

Thanks,
Michael

ScootLemont · Post by **ScootLemont** » Tue May 13, 2008 2:32 am

mpc0nsumer wrote:

Generally speaking, with a 50cc engine, how often should oil be added? Only when the check oil light comes on, or more often? Should oil be added with *every* tank of gas?

I know this is a complete n00b question, but I don't want to screw up such a beautiful machine.

Thanks,
Michael

Michael - your 50cc Buddy is a 2 stroke (or called 2T - oil is mixed with the gas automatically) like my Rattler (or is there a 50cc 4 stroke that I am unaware of?)- you dont change engine oil on these... the oil gets burned with the gas - there is an oil "tank" & you need to add 2 cycle oil to that when it gets low & the light comes on. I suggest you do a little reading of your manual & that should give you all the details - keep in mind that most of the people in the buddy forums are driving 125cc + scooters & those are mostly 4 stroke so you kind of have to pay attention when reading about maintenance & stuff - some things are not the same for 4 strokes & 2 strokes.
this link can explain the difference http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_stroke
I LOVE my 2 stroke 50CC Rattler!
Have fun

mpc0nsumer · Post by **mpc0nsumer** » Tue May 13, 2008 3:00 am

ScootLemont wrote:Michael - your 50cc Buddy is a 2 stroke (or called 2T - oil is mixed with the gas automatically) like my Rattler (or is there a 50cc 4 stroke that I am unaware of?)- you dont change engine oil on these... the oil gets burned with the gas - there is an oil "tank" & you need to add 2 cycle oil to that when it gets low & the light comes on.

Thanks, ScootLemont - sorry, I should have been more clear with my post: I'm aware that the Buddy 50cc is a 2 stroke engine, and know that that means the engine burns the oil; but being new to this type of engine, I'm wary of waiting until the light comes on to add the 2 cycle oil. Is there a general rule of thumb (other than relying on the light) as to how often oil should be added, or another way to check the oil level?

ScootLemont · Post by **ScootLemont** » Tue May 13, 2008 5:08 am

No problem... just wasnt sure from your post... there have been a few post lately from new owners, & it seemed one or two didnt realize they were riding oil burners. - sorry to go on about 2 cycle.

Yeah.. the light makes me nervous - one cheep bulb burns out & you mess up your engine because you ran out of oil - on my rattler you can see the plastic container that holds the 2 cycle oil - so I have been keeping an eye on that - I dont know the Buddy 50 well so I dont know you you can see your oil container. - can you see the oil level where you fill it if you cant get a look at the oil container?
I bet there are some buddy 50 owners on this board that can give you some advice on visually checking the oil level - how about it buddy 50 owners?? Are you out there?

you might want to post a new thread with the heading of like "how to check oil level on buddy 50"

there are so many threads on break in (and a lot of conflicting advice) some people might avoid the threads

Arent 50cc 2 cycles a blast??

have fun!

Modern Buddy

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