Genuine Warranty

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Mikestib1
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Genuine Warranty

Post by Mikestib1 »

I was about o buy a new Buddy 50 at the local dealer but I think the warranty is not like most manufacturers. Every motorcycle and car I've purchased allowed the owner to perform his own maintenance without voiding the warranty as long as parts receipts and service dates were kept. Also the warranty was transferable to the next owner. Genuine makes a big deal about it's 2 year warranty but it's restrictions make it inferior. May still buy one, but the importer is not stepping up when it comes to true value.
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Post by eljohno »

I bought two buddy's a week ago today a 125 and a 150 both brand new and the dealer told me I could change oil myself without voiding warranty. I just changed oil at 180 miles.
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Post by PeteH »

Correct - the warranty is NON-transferable.
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Post by avescoots1134 »

You can do your own maintenance, but if you screw something up or fail to do it, us technicians will know. Been there!
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Re: Genuine Warranty

Post by Syd »

Mikestib1 wrote:I was about o buy a new Buddy 50 at the local dealer but I think the warranty is not like most manufacturers. Every motorcycle and car I've purchased allowed the owner to perform his own maintenance without voiding the warranty as long as parts receipts and service dates were kept. Also the warranty was transferable to the next owner. Genuine makes a big deal about it's 2 year warranty but it's restrictions make it inferior. May still buy one, but the importer is not stepping up when it comes to true value.
I don't have a manual or warranty card in front of me at the moment. What restrictions do you mean?
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Post by KrispyKreme »

avescoots1134 wrote:You can do your own maintenance, but if you screw something up or fail to do it, us technicians will know. Been there!
I thought the first service had to be done at a dealership.
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Re: Genuine Warranty

Post by KrispyKreme »

Mikestib1 wrote:I was about o buy a new Buddy 50 at the local dealer but I think the warranty is not like most manufacturers. Every motorcycle and car I've purchased allowed the owner to perform his own maintenance without voiding the warranty as long as parts receipts and service dates were kept. Also the warranty was transferable to the next owner. Genuine makes a big deal about it's 2 year warranty but it's restrictions make it inferior. May still buy one, but the importer is not stepping up when it comes to true value.

Avescoots1134 sounds like a dealer so looks like you're good. I had to use my roadside assist. once w/out an issue. Genuine has a good warranty IMO.
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Post by avescoots1134 »

It's up to each dealer, but most would like the first service to be done in-house because of the importance.
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Post by KooK »

Avescoots did my first service! Lol
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Post by TCaruso »

In my experience, the warranty isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Maybe it's the warranty itself, maybe it's the dealer who supports the warranty. Either way, I had 2 issues with my Blackjack in the first few months of owning it an I got no where. In the end I took care of it myself because I preferred to take care of the problem vs being jerked around for months by the dealer and/or Genuine.

I even sent an email to Genuine and never received a response.

Luckily, the scooter is a well built, reliable machine.
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Post by avescoots1134 »

Before I put any deep thought into a warranty claim I ask myself a few questions that mostly applies but exclusions do happen.

*Is it related to corrosion due to improper storage? (common)
*Is it related to a drop or pothole even if not 100% obvious? (common)
*Is this listed as a wear item not covered under warranty?
*Was the part modified or affected by another modified part or accessory?

Genuine has been really good to me, but some dealers will try and put things through like broken rusty mirrors that break. Yeah, that's on you.
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Post by TCaruso »

Genuine has been really good to me, but some dealers will try and put things through like broken rusty mirrors that break. Yeah, that's on you.[/quote]

It's been so long I forgot about the mirrors that failed within a few months. I got a song and dance about that too. I wound up purchasing an aftermarket pair of mirrors and moved on.

Make that 3 issues I had where either Genuine or the dealer dropped the ball regarding the warranty.
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Post by laurfunkle »

TCaruso wrote:I had 2 issues with my Blackjack in the first few months of owning it an I got no where.
What issues did you have? Just wondering...
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Post by KrispyKreme »

laurfunkle wrote:
TCaruso wrote:I had 2 issues with my Blackjack in the first few months of owning it an I got no where.
What issues did you have? Just wondering...

Curious also. He said the mirrors crapped out.
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Post by TCaruso »

Why ya'll up in my biznass???

Just kidding.

The day I accepted delivery, as I was giving the bike the once over, I noticed the rear brake light wasn't flush with the panels. OK so the fit and finish isn't perfect. So I push the corner of the brake light to see if it's out of position or if in fact he seams don't line up. The corner of the light cracked. I look at the dealer and said seriously? He said he'd contact Genuine to handle it. It wasn't

2nd issue was the adjustable rear NCY shock. If I remember correctly the shock had about 30 click settings between firm and soft. By the time I brought it in for the first service the range was about 8 clicks. I asked they check it out and they said that's normal, Nothing wrong. Not long after you couldn't turn the adjustment knob a single click. Was it taken care of? No

About the same time one of my mirrors began flopping in the wind like a basset hound's ears hanging out the window of a moving car. Addressed by warranty? Nope

So my experience regarding the warranty failed all 3 attempts. I could've left the bike there the day I was to accept delivery and said call me when it's ready but it was 2011 and he had the only new Blackjack around.

Am I upset about the experience? Not at all because in the end I got a great little scooter. But to me the warranty was useless and as I mentioned, I contacted Genuine and no one ever replied.

Before the Blackjack I bought a Lance Vintage 150cc scooter from an internet company. It was delivered in a box to my door. They too had a warranty. As it turned out, the front brake line was rubbing against my wheel and blew out the line. I called the internet dealer and they shipped me a new brake line, pads and calipers.
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Post by BuddyRaton »

Soooo...you are willing to change out the brake line, caliper etc, properly bleed the system etc but not tighten a nut for the mirror?

Okee dokey!
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Post by KrispyKreme »

BuddyRaton wrote:Soooo...you are willing to change out the brake line, caliper etc, properly bleed the system etc but not tighten a nut for the mirror?

Okee dokey!

And he tried to "fasten" something and it cracked.

TCaruso, you have had NO problems you could not have worked out with your dealer. Maybe a better attitude and better knowledge would have helped.

Somehow I doubt that. It sounds like you are a person that has an answer before you ask the question.
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Post by TCaruso »

KrispyKreme wrote:
TCaruso wrote:
Am I upset about the experience? Not at all because in the end I got a great little scooter. But to me the warranty was useless and as I mentioned, I contacted Genuine and no one ever replied.

<Offensive post redacted - Poster banned>?
Are you making me an offer? You seem to be an expert in what it sounds like and what it sounds like to me is that in order to **** my **** you need to get off Genuine's **** first. You talk about attitude and that's exactly the shit you give when someone posts their honest opinion and experience.

Do me a favor and don't pretend to know me.

Yes, I have an answer to the question do i expect a $4000 scooter to be held to a higher standard than the $1300 Chinese scooter that most bash in this forum. All the panels should fit and QC should ensure a panel or light does not protrude farther than it should. And the nerve of me to expect a response form Genuine when I contacted them.

But as I said twice before and I'll say it again for the 3rd time, I'm fine with it and happy with this bike. And to be clear, I have a good relationship with my dealer and refer him several times every year. I bring in my scooter every spring for him to give a once over and change the oil. He charges me $80 for the service but I have the peace of mind knowing it's road worthy.

BuddyRaton: The issue with the mirror unfortunately wasn't a loose nut. I could've superglued the mirror to the stem but it was under warranty so why should I? If I can't get a defective mirror replaced under warranty then what's it good for? And to be clear, I requested a new brake line under warranty and the internet dealer chose to send me everything. I only replaced the brake line.
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Post by Dooglas »

TCaruso wrote:But as I said twice before and I'll say it again for the 3rd time, I'm fine with it and happy with this bike. And to be clear, I have a good relationship with my dealer and refer him several times every year. I bring in my scooter every spring for him to give a once over and change the oil. He charges me $80 for the service but I have the peace of mind knowing it's road worthy.
Setting aside all the d**k licking, I don't think you do have a good relationship with your dealer. Dealers are the gateway to warranty service. They are the ones who have a relationship with Genuine and deal with Genuine on warranty issues, not you. Your dealer owed you either satisfaction, or an explanation why each of these issues was your responsibility. If you got neither, your dealer let you down.
Last edited by Dooglas on Thu Jul 23, 2015 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by TCaruso »

Dooglas wrote:
TCaruso wrote:But as I said twice before and I'll say it again for the 3rd time, I'm fine with it and happy with this bike. And to be clear, I have a good relationship with my dealer and refer him several times every year. I bring in my scooter every spring for him to give a once over and change the oil. He charges me $80 for the service but I have the peace of mind knowing it's road worthy.
Setting aside all the dick licking, I don't think you do have a good relationship with your dealer. Dealers are the gateway to warranty service. They are the ones who have a relationship with Genuine and deal with Genuine on warranty issues, not you. Your dealer owed you either satisfaction, or an explanation why each of these issues was your responsibility. If you got neither, your dealer let you down.
First let me apologize to everyone on MB for going off.

I can't argue with your point. It's certainly valid. However the warranty wasn't the reason I bought a Blackjack and the owner of the dealership is a genuinely nice guy. It's why I continue to give him my business. I don't believe he was holding out but he probably didn't fight too hard for me if it came down to that. Some people aren't that way and I didn't need him to go to battle with Genuine over it. I liked the bike so I dismissed the small stuff. Now if the engine blew or there was a crack in the frame you can be sure I wouldn't have let something like that go. I'd expect him to move mountains and if he couldn't I would.
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Post by sunshinen »

KrispyKreme wrote: You wanted something special. What's special? Take you in the back and suck your dick?
Ugh. Is this kind of remark necessary? Again, this isn't an all boys forum.

Disagreeing that something wasn't a warranty issue or a big deal is one thing, but this strikes me as overtly hostile and rude. There's no need for this kind of escalation and language -- no need to try to shame someone for discussing their experience and opinions.

I'll applaud TCaruso for returning to a reasoned discussion.
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sunshinen
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Re: Genuine Warranty

Post by sunshinen »

Mikestib1 wrote:I was about o buy a new Buddy 50 at the local dealer but I think the warranty is not like most manufacturers. Every motorcycle and car I've purchased allowed the owner to perform his own maintenance without voiding the warranty as long as parts receipts and service dates were kept. Also the warranty was transferable to the next owner. Genuine makes a big deal about it's 2 year warranty but it's restrictions make it inferior. May still buy one, but the importer is not stepping up when it comes to true value.
Check out the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act ... My understanding is that no one can void the warranty because the service wasn't done by a dealership.

I think that the requirement is only that if something under warranty breaks, and you want that free warranty repair ... THAT work has to be done by dealer. They're not going to pay you or your mechanic friend to do the repair.

I remember when Genuine had the best warranty for a scooter, now Vespa and others have started copying the 2-year warranty and roadside assistance.
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Post by GregsBuddy »

Let's be civil, please.
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Post by george54 »

Really guys? Do you feel big and tough now? That type of language has no place here. Leave it over at that juvenile cesspool MV.
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Post by 170Irene »

I support the let's be civil request. A member should be able to voice their opinions without being subjected to such rudeness. Also, it's hard to know whether the dealer or Genuine was responsible for the warranty issues in this case. However, Genuine didn't respond to the customer's letter. That's on Genuine.

Genuine does have at least one unique stipulation that other manufacturers don't regarding their warranty. It is not transferable to a new owner if the scooter is sold before the two year period is up. Vespa does allow the warranty to be transferred.
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Post by TCaruso »

Let me once again apologize for my outburst. This is a group with several thousand members who shouldn't be subjected to the rants of a few. I could've gotten my point across without being as vulgar as I was.
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Post by jrsjr »

Ok, KrispyKreme is banned. We bent over backwards to give him chance after after chance to get a grip. We'd kick him off with clear instructions to chill, then we'd let him come back and he'd come back and behave for a while and then he'd go off the rails again. It's been pretty clear for a while that he was going off the rails again, but this time I'm done. Sorry.

Thanks to rest of you for great job of self-monitoring that you do.
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Re: Genuine Warranty

Post by Elder Scoot »

As a general discussion and not a legal opinion - the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (15 U.S.C. 2302(C)) enacted in 1975 regulates warranties and protects the consumer. Generally a vehicle manufacturer may not condition a written or implied warranty on the consumers using parts or services which are identified by brand, trade, or corporate name (such as the vehicle maker’s brand) unless the parts or service are provided free of charge. While the use of an aftermarket part alone is not cause for denying the warranty, the Act's protection does not extend to aftermarket parts in situations where such parts actually caused the damage being claimed under the warranty. Also, there may be specific terms or conditions stated in the warranty which may result in its being voided.

I bought an early automatic Stella (#131) and had more than my fair share of warranty repairs. Genuine and my dealer, Scootersmith, in Houston provided excellent service. I got a three year warranty with the the Hooligan and have not had to, and don't anticipate, using it.

Sorry about Krispy I will miss him.
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Post by thatvwbusguy »

Our local dealer said that the factory warranty would only be honored on my wife's 2014 170i if they did the first service and valve adjustment at 500 miles. This is in agreement with what Genuine suggests in their FAQ as well: http://www.genuinescooters.com/genuine_faqs.html

Since my wife likes the idea of having a factory warranty and I like the idea of my wife being happy, we dropped the scoot off after a late lunch and gave them the standard "just give us a call when it is ready" thinking they would call us the next morning.

When I got the call less than two hours later saying that it was good to go, I had some serious questions about this authorized service center's level of competency.

The first rule of valve adjustment 101 is "only adjust valves when the engine is completely cool" Genuine actually gets more specific saying "Checking and adjustment of valve clearance only can be done under 35C of engine temperature". The scooter was ridden about 20 miles at speeds averaging 35-45MPH to drop it off. This would suggest that the engine had not cooled to the required temp for adjustment in the narrow window of time that the dealer had the scooter in their possession.

This, coupled with the fact that the tech who did the work didn't seem to have any idea what the valve clearances were supposed to be (0.08mm for intake and exhaust) led me to believe that the entire "first service" consisted of nothing more than a really expensive engine and gear oil change.

In the long run, factory warranties are nothing more than an assessed risk that pays off for the company offering it more often than not. The perceived value of a 2 year unlimited mileage warranty is probably worth somewhere around $200.00-400.00 to most people. Of all the people that I know who bought a new Genuine scooter in the past 3 years (probably somewhere between 15-20) only one person had anything replaced under warranty (a brake light that croaked less than 2 weeks after purchase).

Genuine clearly feels that the build quality of their scooters will provide at least 2 years of use without major mechanical failures when following the standard maintenance program. Since they have been offering this warranty for over two years now, the perceived value of the warranty to buyers must be greater than the cost to offer the warranty when they run the numbers.
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Post by Dooglas »

thatvwbusguy wrote:When I got the call less than two hours later saying that it was good to go, I had some serious questions about this authorized service center's level of competency.
I think it is fair to comment that it is (IMO) worth having an experienced mechanic do the complete inspection and adjustments called for in the initial service - just like it is valuable to have the bike properly set up and tested before delivery. Unfortunately, many shops don't do much of either. The quality of service at individual scooter shops in this country varies greatly. When you find a good one - stick with it.
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Post by sunshinen »

thatvwbusguy wrote:Our local dealer said that the factory warranty would only be honored on my wife's 2014 170i if they did the first service and valve adjustment at 500 miles. This is in agreement with what Genuine suggests in their FAQ as well: http://www.genuinescooters.com/genuine_faqs.html
They may heavily suggest that you have the first service done by a dealer, but unless it is a free service, they cannot demand that it be done by a dealer.

Note the carefully crafted language on the website... It does not say "You must have this done by the dealer, or your warranty will be void." It's "we ask" and "please" do this...

Again, see the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.

As for quality of mechanics at the dealers... I've had some bad experiences, too:
  • Overfilled oil leaking everywhere after a service
  • Stripped drain plug after a different service
  • Returned 3 times to fix leaking oil after yet another service (at least they readily admitted their bad and didn't charge me even when additional parts/labor were needed beyond the service I originally paid for).
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Post by craftynerd »

thatvwbusguy wrote:
When I got the call less than two hours later saying that it was good to go, I had some serious questions about this authorized service center's level of competency.

The first rule of valve adjustment 101 is "only adjust valves when the engine is completely cool" Genuine actually gets more specific saying "Checking and adjustment of valve clearance only can be done under 35C of engine temperature". The scooter was ridden about 20 miles at speeds averaging 35-45MPH to drop it off. This would suggest that the engine had not cooled to the required temp for adjustment in the narrow window of time that the dealer had the scooter in their possession.

This, coupled with the fact that the tech who did the work didn't seem to have any idea what the valve clearances were supposed to be (0.08mm for intake and exhaust) led me to believe that the entire "first service" consisted of nothing more than a really expensive engine and gear oil change.
When I dropped my Buddy off for its first service, the dealer did indeed let it sit overnight - then again, I was going out of town for Thanksgiving, so it worked out perfectly for getting my first service done and making sure my scoot was safe while I was out of town! He did the same thing for my ex-husband's Stella when it went in for its first service, and loaned him a scooter to use to get home - that way, everything was taken care of the right way for the first service. It sounds like the tech didn't really know what he was doing, at all.
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Post by avescoots1134 »

It's extremely hard to find a good scooter mechanic these days. Especially because us seasoned technicians are always looking for a way out. It's a pretty stressful job!

In the automotive and motorcycle technician world, pretty much every repair that would come up is very thoroughly documented and illustrated. Scooters? Hah. We get the same jibberish service manuals you can find online. Unless you're lucky enough to have done the repair a couple times before, everything is guesswork and one wrong move means broken plastic and stripped fasteners.

And being a scooter technician, your good deeds go unnoticed and if something goes wrong you better watch out! :)
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Post by Yalzin »

You forgot the Engrish Service Manuals (if they even exist....I can't tell you how many times my mechanic says "punch up the [random chinese bike] service manual and wiring diagram...yes, they use the same motor, but for some reason, they are all just annoyingly different...).

Even Genuine is plagued with some bad manuals. Though it can make finding everything amusing.
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