Roughhouse died on me

luckyscroller788 · Post by **luckyscroller788** » Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:29 am

Late last evening my '15 roughhouse suffered 'sudden death syndrome'. I was moving along , not quite WOT, I heard a strange clunk sound, the engine stopped immediately, and the lights went out. Plenty of gas and oil in it as I filled up about 30 miles prior, no vapor lock, I tried removing and replacing the gas cap. Cranks over just fine, so its not the battery. My hazard lights worked fine, but nothing else. Any speculation what my damage is? It is under warranty, and I dropped it off at 9AM this morning when the shop opened, but its just bugging the crap out of me.
Last evening we went on a great group ride with about 25 scooters, and we were heading home on a really dark, quiet country road about 10PM when it happened. luckily for me, another couple that was riding with us came by, and was able to get his truck and save me (and save me he did, I have been attacked by more mosquitos last night than I have in the past 5 years!). today was another huge scooter meetup I was planning on attending, but sadly I couldn't go, as well as another nice meetup I was planning on riding in on Sunday. I finally had a whole weekend off of work, decent weather, and many miles of scootering planned. So disappointed.

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Sun Jul 19, 2015 4:31 am

A clunk is not good. The RH50 is one of the toughest scooters out there. I have several friends and I who have tried to break one for years.
The fact that it turned over is good. Hopefully something simple. Even a great scoot CAN break, but the warranty should have you covered if it did.
There are a few more weekends coming. I hope you are on the road soon. Be sure to let us know what it was.

laurfunkle · Post by **laurfunkle** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 9:20 pm

Any chance you may have run it out of oil/accidentally used a "premix" 2T oil rather than an injector formula?

luckyscroller788 · Post by **luckyscroller788** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 9:59 pm

laurfunkle wrote:Any chance you may have run it out of oil/accidentally used a "premix" 2T oil rather than an injector formula?

No, I add oil every other gas fillup, and at that time my oil tank is still over half full. I mainly use Spectro 2T oil, the oil the dealer gave me a free quart of when I bought the scooter. I did switch to one other brand only because the dealer was out of Spectro, at the time, and they showed me which oil to use as a comparable oil, and it worked just fine for me for at least 300 miles. So, if the oil is the cause, it would be the fault of the dealer, not me, but I am sure the oil I used wasn't at fault.
I still haven't heard anything from the shop, I was told most likely should get to it late today or tomorrow.

luckyscroller788 · Post by **luckyscroller788** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:18 pm

I just went and looked at the bottles... this is what I generally use http://www.spectro-oils.com/2t/
and because the dealer was out of it at the time, this is what he said I should use http://www.bikemaster.com/chemicals/2-s ... e-mix.html
You had me shaking when you mentioned premix, but both of the oils do say for use in injected, or premix situations. It never hurts to look though I guess! Again, I don't think the oil is the problem, something surely would have gone awry before now.

luckyscroller788 · Post by **luckyscroller788** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 2:00 am

Spoke to the mechanic on Friday and the news wasn't very good. He told me I had 20 pounds of compression, and they were tearing into the motor to see if the damage is confined to top end,or if theres damage in the lower end too. The mechanic also questioned me on the oil, said he thought it looked rather thin, but once I explained to him which oil it was that I used, it pretty much ruled out that as the culprit. He then asked me if it was restricted (I assumed he meant the exhaust restrictor), and I told him I was told by them when I picked it up new that they already removed the restrictor. He then explained to me he was referring to (I think he called it) a clutch variator restrictor???? He went on to tell me that in all the Genuine 2Ts hes worked on , literally hundreds as this place deals a lot of Genuines, the only other blown engine hes seen was on a scooter like mine that the owner has removed that restrictor, and could easily go over 50 mph on, and had overrevved his engine to the point of destruction. So, Im still not sure the cause of my blown engine, but it is in the process of complete rebuilding. Thankfully it is under warranty, and the way it sounds at this point it will be taken care of . Just sucks that things always seem to break down when you need them most huh?
Now... on a sidenote... with me scared shitless now on everything to do with lubricating, and keeping the scooters in top shape, its almost time to add oil to my wifes buddy 50. I am out of the Spectro 2T, scared of trying the Bikemaster oil again now, but the Napa store near me sells Lucas semi-synthetic 2 cycle oil (predominately blue and red lable). On its bottle it says " suitable for use in air-cooled engines. Designed for any oil injection system or premix up to 50:1" Is this oil an acceptable oil to use in her buddy until I can get the Spectro 2t oil ?

avescoots1134 · Post by **avescoots1134** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:19 pm

If the exhaust restrictor is removed but the variator restrictor is left in this causes the engine to run at a very high rpm. Sustained usage at high engine speeds can cause the piston circlip to fly out and grenade the top end.

laurfunkle · Post by **laurfunkle** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:40 pm

We had an R50 in and out of the shop 3 times with a similar issue, oil was good but it kept cutting out and not restarting. Turned out to be a manufacture defect thank goodness and the repairs were all covered under the warranty. Hopefully the same is true for you!

Still a bummer that it's out of commission but hopefully your shop can fix it up quickly for you.

tbswope · Post by **tbswope** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:31 am

luckyscroller788 wrote:Napa store near me sells Lucas semi-synthetic 2 cycle oil (predominately blue and red lable). On its bottle it says " suitable for use in air-cooled engines. Designed for any oil injection system or premix up to 50:1" Is this oil an acceptable oil to use in her buddy until I can get the Spectro 2t oil ?

I only have 800 miles on my roughhouse but the dealer filled the oil tank originally with yamalube and once it ran low enough for the light to stay on solid I refilled with the lucas oil you are talking about and have had no issues.

You mentioned you fill your oil every other gas up, I think i got about 500 miles out of my first tank of oil and like I said I'm on my second and have 800 miles on my scoot now, seems like a big difference in oil consumption.

luckyscroller788 · Post by **luckyscroller788** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:48 am

tbswope wrote:
You mentioned you fill your oil every other gas up, I think i got about 500 miles out of my first tank of oil and like I said I'm on my second and have 800 miles on my scoot now, seems like a big difference in oil consumption.

Thanks for the reassurance. Today I did call the number on the oil bottle just for peace of mind and the guy assured me this oil is perfect for the scooters. As for exactly how much oil I go through, I'm not really sure. I try to fill the oil tank every other fuel up, but it isn't even a half empty yet. I have not ever let it get low enough to have the light come on, because I'm used to thinking like I'm in a car... when the oil light came on, it meant it was already to late. So,in reality, it sounded like I used more oil than I really did. Between my RH, and my wifes Buddy50,we have a combined amount of miles of right around 3000, and have emptied three quarts of oil, so Id say we must be getting about 1000 miles per quart. Does that sound about right to you?

tbswope · Post by **tbswope** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:26 pm

I honestly am not sure of miles per quart on the 2T oil. I have been digging around on here trying to figure something out and have seen 500 miles to 1000 miles listed. Maybe some folks with a couple thousand on the odometer could chime in with what they have experienced.

Stitch · Post by **Stitch** » Sat Aug 01, 2015 5:47 am

I'm at least 600 miles on a quart

luckyscroller788 · Post by **luckyscroller788** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:03 am

Just thought I'd post an update. The shop is doing a complete engine rebuild. Still no answers on what caused it to die, both the shop and the guy that came up from Genuine in Chicago to witness the teardown aren't quite sure what went wrong with it. Thankfully they are making sure they go over everything, and its taken care of for me. It sucks having nice weather with no scooter to ride, but I am sure glad its under warranty. Hopefully soon I will begin a whole new break in period on it.

luckyscroller788 · Post by **luckyscroller788** » Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:27 am

Today I got a call, the roughhouse was done and ready for me! The cause, one of the C clips that hold the wrist pin in the piston either broke, or came out, badly scoring the cylinder wall,ruining the rings, the piston, and the head. All the above mentioned parts were replaced. The crankshaft suffered no damage. When they replaced all the parts, and went to fire it up, the battery was totally dead (Not sure why,as there was no prior problem with the battery), so a new battery was installed as well.My bill was $0
I got it home, and rolled it off my truck, and it fired right up. I only had enough time to take one short scoot down the road, and had to park it because we had a lot of packing to do for a 4 day trip (un scooter related) we are going on right after work tomorrow.
So, to those saying Genuines warranty stuff is all lip service, my situation proves that theory wrong.And, yes, having a good dealer is also very important.

moff3tt · Post by **moff3tt** » Wed Aug 12, 2015 10:34 pm

luckyscroller788 wrote:Today I got a call, the roughhouse was done and ready for me! The cause, one of the C clips that hold the wrist pin in the piston either broke, or came out, badly scoring the cylinder wall,ruining the rings, the piston, and the head. All the above mentioned parts were replaced. The crankshaft suffered no damage. When they replaced all the parts, and went to fire it up, the battery was totally dead (Not sure why,as there was no prior problem with the battery), so a new battery was installed as well.My bill was $0
I got it home, and rolled it off my truck, and it fired right up. I only had enough time to take one short scoot down the road, and had to park it because we had a lot of packing to do for a 4 day trip (un scooter related) we are going on right after work tomorrow.
So, to those saying Genuines warranty stuff is all lip service, my situation proves that theory wrong.And, yes, having a good dealer is also very important.

Glad to hear you got it resolved! And for no cost to you! Is it the wrist pins that are why it's not smart to Rev these engines high? I read it was the crank.

Stitch · Post by **Stitch** » Wed Aug 12, 2015 10:54 pm

Anything with moving parts can break at any time.

moff3tt · Post by **moff3tt** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 4:54 pm

Stitch wrote:Anything with moving parts can break at any time.

Well yeah but generally those clips shouldn't just fall out. Of course if the engine was built to the restricted spec without much overhead then it would make sense that even just unrestricted stock would already be putting strain on the motor.

avescoots1134 · Post by **avescoots1134** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 7:22 pm

They've only had a problem with the clips coming out with half de-restricted scooters - ones with the variator restrictor still installed (shops not knowing what they are doing). If this was the case, the shop likely lied to cover their ass.

It's a great motor and pretty much one of the longest lasting 2t's on the market but it's not spec'ed to run 15K rpm.

moff3tt · Post by **moff3tt** » Mon Aug 17, 2015 3:19 am

avescoots1134 wrote:They've only had a problem with the clips coming out with half de-restricted scooters - ones with the variator restrictor still installed (shops not knowing what they are doing). If this was the case, the shop likely lied to cover their ass.

It's a great motor and pretty much one of the longest lasting 2t's on the market but it's not spec'ed to run 15K rpm.

So a fully derestricted motor, variator and exhaust is likely fine since that make the gear taller on the top end

I was thinking about an overrange kit for mine since that would allow for taller gear ratios without overreving the motor

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:50 am

Glad to read that you are fixxed and covered under warranty. Happy riding.

Modern Buddy

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