Buddy 150 Starting problems

[Heart of the Desert]

Hey everyone, First time scooter owner here.

I just bought a Buddy 150 from a close friend for $100! It only has 1,200 miles on it. It was in a mild crash once and was completely repaired by his insurance. He rode it for a bit more ,and then let it sit in his garage for 2 years.

First let me say this is my first time working on a bike
Here is a clear sequence of events

Put fresh gas in

I replaced the battery with a new one (yes, it was charged)

We tried to start it- ignition clicking noise, with a small sound of wanting to turn.

We kickstart it- it starts and dies within a few seconds

We try ignition again- it starts and dies within a few seconds

We try a few more times- sometimes are more promising but it will die even if we pump the gas to get it moving, or just let it sit.

We leave it for two days...

We try again- there absolutely no response other than a farting sound in the ignition. The lights work, the horn works.

We try kickstart- nothing

We think maybe the battery lost juice from us trying so much and jump it with a car for good measure (no we did not turn the car on and fry it)

It gives one turn over and dies. no further attempts work.

Being the crazy adventurer that i am I push 5 miles to my house at midnight so I can have it at home

I check the spark plug- No spark using ignition, very weak spark when I kick

I replace the spark plug with a new one- same results as old one

I try the horn- this time it does not work, just a farting noise

So again, at first wanted to turn and would die quickly and the horn worked.


Now
-weak spark in plug during kick, no spark during ignition
-ignition just makes a farting noise
-horn makes farting noise

I am reading the user manual and the service manual and I have an intuitive sense of how this all works but I am having trouble finding each thing with out a detailed diagram and a knowledge of the names of parts

I want to make sure gas is getting to the Carburetor but have no idea where the carburetor draining screw is.


I want to check the solenoid but I am not sure where to find it. Is it that black case right above the starter coil? The one with a one large line connected to the face and a smaller line connected to left side of it? all the pictures of solenoids i see have both lines connected to the front face so I am not sure this is the right part...


Thanks for any help you can offer, I do appreciate it

[jrsjr]

Sometimes when we hear weirdo problems like this, especially with a known-good battery, it turns out to be a bad ground connection either at the battery end or at the other end of the main ground wire that comes off the battery. Disconnect the main ground wire, inspect it, clean it,. Do the same for the post on the battery so that you have nice clean metal touching nice clean metal, then reconnect and test. Repeat this process at the other end of the main ground wire. Good luck and please let us know how it goes.

[Heart of the Desert]

Thanks for the reply,

So the the ground is clean and in condition at the battery end, but I have no idea where to find it at the other end...

Also the Positive line is a bit corroded right where it touches the battery from the old battery, . This could be the problem, couldn't it? But that doesn't explain why it wont kickstart

[Heart of the Desert]

just scrapped the corrosion off with a razor. shaved it back down to the metal. Still no go

[babblefish]

After sitting 2 years I'll bet the carb is plugged up and needs to be cleaned. If you want to make sure gas is even getting to the carb float bowl, you can open the float bowl drain screw a bit to see if any gas flows out the overflow drain hose. The drain screw should be right next to the drain hose on the carbs float bowl. If you don't know where the drain hose is located, look around the front of the variator/transmission cover on the left side of the scooter. You should see a black rubber hose hanging there not connected to anything. Follow that up to the bottom of the carbs float bowl and you should spot the drain screw. It will have a slotted head for a regular screw driver.
Regardless, I would remove the carb to take it apart for a thorough clean with carb cleaner. Either do it yourself if you have confidence in your mechanical ability or take it to a shop and have them do it.

Just in case, I'd also open up the air filter box and remove the air filter element to make sure some critter hasen't built a home in there plugging up the air intake. It has happened...

Almost forgot, did you check to make sure the fuel filter isn't plugged up? Not sure where it is on a Buddy, but on a Blur, it's under the fuel tank.

[avescoots1134]

After two years of sitting it's going to need a new carburetor and all the rubber lines and fuel filter replaced. Also sounds like your battery is a dud.

[jrsjr]

So the the ground is clean and in condition at the battery end, but I have no idea where to find it at the other end...

Just follow the wire. It doesn't go far.

Also the Positive line is a bit corroded right where it touches the battery from the old battery, . This could be the problem, couldn't it?

Yes, it could. You'll nead to clean that up, too.

But that doesn't explain why it wont kickstart

You're right. You likely have more than one problem. I focus on the electrical stuff. The others above have focused on the carb which is probably ruined. You might could get a mechanic to disassemble it, soak it in a powerful solvent, blow out the passages with compressed air, and then completely rebuild it, but a new carb is probably in order as they say.

By all means,, once you get the electrical issues sorted, drain the bad old gas out of your tank (you'll have to do that anyway, so might as well bite the bullet and do it now) and try a tank of fresh gas with Seafoam in it. You'll still need to do some basic cleanup on the carb which is no-doubt all gummed up with residue from the gas that was left in it. You may be able to get it running, however badly. That would at least let you you know whether it's worth continuing with the project.

Other folks are going to suggest stuff like disassembling the carb yourself and soaking the metal carb parts in Pinesol and then cramming wires through the passageways in the carb to free them up. You can try that if you are in desperate financial straits or if you just have a burning desire to get intimately familiar with the guts of your carb. You'll still have to buy a carb rebuild kit and (I would strongly recommend) a couple jets. Let us know what you find.

Either way, the carb disassembly is explained in broken English on pages 77-78 of the service manual which is available on this site at this location. Good Luck!!!

[babblefish]

After two years of sitting it's going to need a new carburetor and all the rubber lines and fuel filter replaced. Also sounds like your battery is a dud.

Not sure that's always the case. My scoot sat for 5 years before I resurrected the engine reusing all of the original hoses and carb. Before storage though, I did drain all of the gas out of the carb, but not the fuel tank. I ended up draining the fuel tank during the restoration and dumping it in my car, which happily burned it. I did change the fuel filter though, not because it was clogged, but because the shop that last replaced it installed it backwards which caused dirt to be trapped in the wrong part of the filter ultimately shortening it's life. I suppose if one lives in an area with high levels of air polution, the rubber hoses could be potentially rotted. In anycase, I checked the internals of my carb and it was clean so I just threw it on and the engine ran fine. But as always, ymmv.

[Chicagomike]

I'm not as knowledgeable as lots of folks on here, but I would recommend trying to clean the carb before buying a new one. I was able to get a buddy 125 started after it sat for four years (in Chicago, outside under a stairway) by cleaning the bottom half of the carb (the bowl part), and replacing the battery, gas, & spark plug. Perhaps I was just lucky, but it seems worth a try before shelling out money for a new carb. If you do a search, you should find a number of posts pertaining to carb cleaning. I found this follow-up post (topic27908.html) & it's original post, which is linked in first sentence, to be quite helpful. To clean my carb, I used a can of carb cleaner and a single thread of copper wire from within a speaker wire to poke through the gunk within the jets. Folks recommend an air hose to clean out jets, but I didn't have one. First time I did it, it took me about 90 minutes, but about 20 of that was spent looking around for the little pivot pin that anchors the float (pay close attention so you don't lose any small parts). Before the carb clean, I had only changed oil and some tubed tires on another scoot of mine, so I was no expert when I did it. I did read everything I could find on Modernbuddy, but that was all my prep.

[thatvwbusguy]

The drain for the carb is a screw on the left side (if you are sitting on the bike) near the bottom of the carb bowl. It should be the lowest screw on the carb.

Definitely pull the air filter out and inspect it to make sure that no rodents, bugs etc have made a home in your intake. Feel free to leave it off until you get the scoot to start and run for a bit.

Before you go any further, make sure that there is the correct amount of oil in the engine. If there is way too much oil, it could cause hydro-lock (at least theoretically, I have never seen it happen).

You can find the starter solenoid by following the red battery cable to a part that looks like the part shown in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpNtPEFfS0A . If the starter is trying to turn over at all, it is probably not the solenoid. Check the physical condition of the heavy wires that go from the starter solenoid to the starter and clean every electrical connection you can until it is nice and shiny. The connections on the ground side are equally important, so take a few minutes to make sure they are all nice and shiny as well.

Make sure that the battery is fully charged, then start with the easy stuff first. It is worth pointing out that a bad battery fresh out of the box is not unheard of. If you have a jumper pack or a car battery and a pair of jumper cables, you can always use those to confirm that you have the cranking amperage you need.

Pull the spark plug out and see if the starter will crank the engine over. If it does, you know that the starter is at least marginally good. If it won't you need to figure out if you have a dead starter, or why the engine is seized.

Assuming the engine spins with the starter, check for spark again (with a fully charged battery) as shown in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LogSfY7NhkQ . If you have no spark, or a really weak orange spark, you might need to replace your CDI or your coil. It is worth checking the connections at the coil by following the spark plug wire up until it hits a small cylinder (that's your coil). There should be two female terminals connected to the other side of the coil. Make sure they are not badly corroded and that they are nice and tight on the male tabs.

If the engine spins okay and you have spark, install the spark plug and try to start again. If you are still getting nothing, it is time to look at the fuel supply. Drain all of the old gas out of the tank (there is a vacuum valve that allows fuel to drain, so you will have to figure out a way to pull a vacuum, or just take the whole tank off and dump it into a container.

Now is also a good time to change the fuel filter. Pretty much anything that will fit will do the trick, just find something for a small carbureted engine and the same size fuel lines (lawnmower etc) and you should be good to go.

Drain the carb bowl, then add new gas to the tank and see what happens when you hit the start button (and grab a brake lever obviously ). If you are still getting a whole bunch of nothing, it's time to tackle the carb. There is a decent diagram in the service manual and some info starting around page 74 that should help you out. http://www.modernbuddy.com/pdf/buddy125 ... manual.pdf

Since most scooter carbs are somewhat similar, poke around youtube a bit to see what you find. Any time you are working with a system that you are not familiar with, take a bunch of photos as you go and work in a clean, well lit area.

Good luck. Scooters are pretty easy to fix once you figure out the basics. A few hand tools and some patience will allow you to fix most of the things that go wrong on a regular basis.

[New2Scoots]

Congrats on the purchase & welcome to the forum. Quite a nice deal you got even if it needs some work. Forunately it has just one carb. I once let a motorcycle sit 3 months & had to rebuild 4 carbs.

[jrsjr]

... but I have no idea where to find it at the other end...

Find it the same way vwbusguy says below, just follow the thick black wire wire from the battery. It's not difficult because it's a thick wire and it's not very long. (Thanks thatvwbuguy) You really want to do this. Don't blow it off because we've had folks lose their minds trying to troubleshoot electrical problems after skipping this step. I'm not kidding.

You can find the starter solenoid by following the red battery cable to a part that looks like the part shown in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpNtPEFfS0A . If the starter is trying to turn over at all, it is probably not the solenoid. Check the physical condition of the heavy wires that go from the starter solenoid to the starter and clean every electrical connection you can until it is nice and shiny. The connections on the ground side are equally important, so take a few minutes to make sure they are all nice and shiny as well.

[k1dude]

You said you "Put new gas in."

I'll bet you filled it all the way up didn't you?

With a Buddy you can't do that or you'll plug up the overfill tube which will cause the type of problems you're experiencing.

Only fill the tank to within 2 or 3 inches of the top.

[Heart of the Desert]

Wow, you folks have been very helpful.

I have sometime this week and I am determined to get this sucker running.

I will start by checking the small things- Clean battery connections, make sure the gas tanks not too full.


If not then- start to diagnose electrics (spark plug, relay, solenoid), drain the carburetor and sea foam the gas tank. Clean the air filter. Change fuel filter.


If not then, I feel prepared to take apart the carb and clean the jets.


I will keep you all posted. Thanks for the help

[Heart of the Desert]

So Today I cleaned the battery and the ground and all connections. Still no spark when using ignition. I tested the solenoid by placing a screw driver on it and trying to start the scooter. This actual made it so the ignition didn't work at all. No noise or anything. After a few minutes the ignition started making the farting noise again.

Any idea what this could indicate? CDI maybe?

[jrsjr]

Is there a scooter/motorcycle/small engine shop of any kind anywhere near you? I ask because we know you have at least two problems, the starter not turning the bike over and the carb being gummed up. Now I strongly suspect that there may be a third problem lurking there somewhere. In order to troubleshoot, you are going to have to focus and solve one problem at a time. Otherwise you are going to end up going around and around in circles wasting time and money. It may ultimately end up being cheaper having an experienced mechanic sort this out. Sorry...

I look forward to hearing that this scooter is sorted and back out on the road.

[babblefish]

I'd follow jrsjr advise, but if you want to keep tinkering with it...

You said the battery is new and charged; can you measure the voltage? It should be no less than 12.5 volts. This may not necessarily mean the battery is good. It might have good no-load voltage, but drop below 12v under a heavy load such as the starter motor. Have it tested at an Autozone store or anywhere else that offers free battery testing.

That "farting" sound you hear is most likely the starter relay/solenoid chattering. The only reason it will do that is if the battery voltage is too low or it can't handle the amp load. When you press the starter button, the relay activates (closes) thereby supplying power to the starter motor which in turn tries to turn over the engine. If the battery can't handle the amp load, as soon as the starter motor engages, the battery voltage drops too low to keep the relay activated which causes it to open thereby cutting off the starter motor. Of course, with the starter motor load gone, the battery voltage goes up again which allows the relay to close again, and again supplying power to the starter motor, and the sequence continues, hence the "farting" sound.

If the battery tests good, then you may have a bad relay/solenoid or a bad starter motor.

One way to take away most of the load from the starter motor is to pull the sparkplug out then try pushing the starter button. Of course it can't start this way but you should at least hear the engine turning over and the starter motor spinning.

None of this explains why the engine can be kick started, but runs for only a few seconds. As jrsjr said, you have multiple problems here. A gummed up carb or even an air leak on the carbs intake or output side could be the problem. Something as simple as trying to run the engine without an airfilter in place could cause this problem. Are you certain all of the rubber hoses are good and connected (correctly!)? All carb mechanical connections tight (no air or vacuum leaks)?

A weak spark could mean a bad ignition coil, sparkplug wire, or sparkplug cap. It might be a bad stator/timing sensor. No offense, but if you're inexperienced with this kind of stuff, I'm wondering if you know the difference between a good spark or bad spark...a normal spark from a scooter is going to look weak, especially if there's a lot of ambient light around.

This being your first scooter/motorcycle, you aren't expected to know all of this without an experienced mentor looking over your shoulder. This is where a good shop is invaluable.

You got a good scooter for essentially nothing so even if you have to pay some shop time to get it running right, you're way ahead.

[jrsjr]

You got a good scooter for essentially nothing so even if you have to pay some shop time to get it running right, you're way ahead.

My thought exactly. Even if it costs, say, a couple hundred for a shop to sort it out, you'll still be well ahead and you'll have a running scooter you can actually enjoy riding.