A Three-Cornered Decision

[Ken]

Well, Spring is almost here, our taxes are almost done, and we're almost ready to make a decision about which scoot to get as my daily commuter along a route that is very nearly flat and has no posted speed limits over 45 MPH. I will also use it for getting about town under similar conditions.

On the one hand is the Buddy 125. It has lots going for it and my dealer is willing to give me a good price on 2007's, particularly ones he has multiples of color-wise. It is, however, the most expensive of the bunch.

On the other hand is the Buddy 50. It, too, has lots going for it, particularly the smaller price tag (and even SMALLER on left-over '07 models). It is, however, considerably less powerful than the Buddy 125. It's a 2-stroke, but I'm not particularly bothered by that (I have a soft spot for 2-strokes; it's right on the top of my head. The doctor makes me wear a helmet all the time because of it. LOL!)

On the third hand is a used bike in the form of an early 80's Honda C70 Passport. The big thing it has going for it is a price tag of under $1000 and famed reliability. It has, however, the slowest top speed of the bunch, though not really much less than a derestricted Buddy 50. There is also no warranty, being a used bike.

Now, I already know about the Buddy 125's performance and fuel economy; I have a friend who rides one, and I've read plenty of commentary in this forum on that topic.

I also know that a derestricted Buddy 50 can make about 50 MPH on reasonably flat terrain (I'm a lightweight rider at about 140 lbs). What I have not been able to find is what sort of fuel economy is common for a derestricted Buddy 50. Anyone have information in that area?

And, as a final question, does anyone have any personal experience with the Honda C70 Passports from the early 1980's?

[There is a fourth contender in my own mind, and that is a Genuine Stella. It's not an actual contender at this time, though, as my wife is not fond of the styling and it's considerably more expensive than a Buddy 125.]

~Ken

[5 bud7]

I have had a honda trail 90 and it felt dangerous because cars always wanted to go faster than the speed limit. the other problem is buddys are very optomestic on their speedometers. Against my wifes car, 60 on the buddy was only 49-50. this is fast enough to keep them ( cagers ) behind you but just borderline. I DON'T THINK YOU WILL BE HAPPY WITH ANYTHING LESS THAN 125 C.C.S.

[Bethers]

I can't help your decision - I just bought a Buddy and like the previous poster ruled out anything less that 125 cc's for making sure I could drive where I wanted/needed to.

Not sure where Denton is - but there's a used Buddy for sale here in the for sale room in TX.

[Christy]

i'm commenting from a generic scooterist perspective, never having owned a Buddy (yet).

I have a 150cc chinese clone of this scooter. It's tops out at 60mph (about 10% optimistic) as I found out riding on 121 today. It drives really well. The only thing i've had to do to it was replace the intake manifold which I did all by myself last summer. Easy. I've had it for a year and ride it every chance I can make up to use it. I don't ride it to/from jobs (long story I'll get into another time) but as much as I can, I ride.

Anyway, its a 150. I'm in Plano. I ride, probably, similar streets as you'll be riding. at 1/3rd the engine size, I am not confident I could keep up with traffic easily on a 50. i know the buddy 125's are comparable to other scoots at 150, but I'd not recommend getting anything under 125. (i'm light myself so my weight isn't really a factor in my scoots speed). Most of the streets I ride are 40 & 45 speed limits. As far as I know the 50cc Buddy tops out at 35-45MPH and if it's as optimistic as mine, it's not even really at the speed limit yet.......

What I want is to keep up with city traffic...which is always in slight excess of the speed limit. My 150 can keep up with that but I do not feel confident a 50 could.

My recommendation is to get the BEST scooter you can, for the money, at the time you are ready to make the purchase. if that means the 50, then do it and ride the hell out of it. it is so much fun to scoot around, regardless of the engine size.

[jmazza]

My commute is similar- no posted speed limits over 45. I feel great on the Buddy 125- it's really quick in traffic (in a good way, I don't ride recklessly) so I'm always able to be in control of my lane position, space cushion, etc. I've found that having the extra power enables me to choose, if I'm in someone's blind spot, whether to get ahead or behind them. If I only had a 50, I'd have one choice... slow down... and risk having the guy behind me not realize it and rear-end me.

I'm still very new to this, but I can't imagine commuting on a 50.

[The Ninja]

I bought a Buddy 50cc for many of the reasons that you are thinking about getting one. The posted speeds on my commute and around my neighbor are all 45mph or under. I think that the Buddy is fine for this.

One of the deciding factors in getting the 50 was the fact that I could save the extra money versus the 125cc and later upgrade the bike. I love to tinker with things. I have been upgrading cars I have owned for years, and the low entry cost of the Buddy lends itself well to modifying.

[rablack]

I commute (in nice weather) on flat roads with no speed limits over 35mph. The 50 works out fine although I do wish I'd gotten the 125. There are times I'd rather speed up to get past someone's blind spot but the 50 just doesn't have enough guts. I did like not having to go to the DPS office for a motocycle license test.

My derestricted 50 gets about 75 mpg. To keep up with traffic, I end up running wide open throttle most of the time.

[ericalm]

To keep up with traffic, I end up running wide open throttle most of the time.

This is one of the main reasons I don't take the 150 or 125 on the freeway. Yeas, I can easily top 70 indicated on the kitted 150. What I can't do is pass many of the cars around me. For me, the danger of limited options should a problem arise—or even the potential for pissing of a cager by driving too slow—isn't worth the convenience of getting someplace faster.

That said, I can't say that the dynamic is precisely the same on surface streets, where people drive much differently than on the freeway. I think people are more used to seeing slower vehicles on surface roads so are a little less likely to try to push you to go faster.

My recommendation is to get the BEST scooter you can, for the money, at the time you are ready to make the purchase. if that means the 50, then do it and ride the hell out of it. it is so much fun to scoot around, regardless of the engine size.

I basically agree with this, unless the rider has needs that a 50 won't meet either way (highway commute, passenger, etc.). Then it may be best to save your pennies for a 150 or even look for a used scoot.

[ericalm]

I have a 150cc chinese clone of this scooter. It's tops out at 60mph (about 10% optimistic) as I found out riding on 121 today. It drives really well. The only thing i've had to do to it was replace the intake manifold which I did all by myself last summer. Easy. I've had it for a year and ride it every chance I can make up to use it. I don't ride it to/from jobs (long story I'll get into another time) but as much as I can, I ride.

Pretty brave of you to admit that you own a Chinese clone.
This is actually the first time I've read anything good about these. Usually even former owners are pretty derisive. Good to get another perspective!

Do you also ride it in the bigger freeways around there—I35, LBJ, etc.?

[Christy]

I have a 150cc chinese clone ....

Pretty brave of you to admit that you own a Chinese clone.
This is actually the first time I've read anything good about these. Usually even former owners are pretty derisive. Good to get another perspective!

Do you also ride it in the bigger freeways around there—I35, LBJ, etc.?

I have been flamed, insulted and ridiculed for it before and I love that this forum isn't like that! Sometimes there really are acceptable reasons for buying one.

I admit owning a clone because:
1. I bought it knowing it wasn't going to be high quality but not knowing if I'd drop the bike in the first few hours of riding or if I'd even enjoy riding. I didn't want to spend a lot of money on something I might break or hate.

2. I knew that it was going to be poor quality and that it may not last me 6 months. But for the price, even if it bit the dust after only 3 months, I'd still be 'effectively' positive.

Luckily I've had it for almost a year and the intake manifold has been the only problem I've encountered. That simply means that I was one of the few lucky ones. I know that too!

I also admit it because since I realized that I loved scooting (about a week-maybe 2 days-after getting said scooter) I started saving for a good one. A dependable one. One I could put a lifetime of miles on. One I could re-sell or trade-in if I decided to get something bigger or different. I know the truth of what I bought and have no delusions of grandeur on this scoot. Nor will I try to convince anyone they should get one. Most people won't be as lucky as I have been with mine.

I have one more financial hurdle (selling of a rental house) before I can make that purchase, but hopefully it's within a month or so and then I can be the new owner of a Pamplona!

To answer your other question, no, I don't take it on 20, 30, 35, 75 or 635. Riding on 121 is not something I enjoy on my scoot...the tiny windshield forces the air directly into my face and going that fast turns my body into a sail. I don't like feeling like I might blow off my scooter. I'll get a nice, size appropriate, windshield for my Pamplona, but I didn't want to spend any more money on this scooter.

Plus, I believe tx says you gotta have a 250cc for freeways, but I'm not 100% positive on that.

[gt1000]

1. I bought it knowing it wasn't going to be high quality but not knowing if I'd drop the bike in the first few hours of riding or if I'd even enjoy riding. I didn't want to spend a lot of money on something I might break or hate.

First time riders should heed this advice, even though you didn't post it as advice. If you haven't ridden before you really don't know what you're in for when you just go out and buy a bike.

You are going to love that new Pamplona!

[Ken]

1. ...I didn't want to spend a lot of money on something I might break or hate.

First time riders should heed this advice, even though you didn't post it as advice. If you haven't ridden before you really don't know what you're in for when you just go out and buy a bike.

I agree, that's good advice. GT, I don't know if you were pointing that at me in particular (and it's fine if you were). I'm new to scooters, but I've owned and ridden motorcycles in the past. Furthermore, I want to get something that I can live with because whatever I get, that's what I get. There won't be any, "gee, I don't really like this so maybe I'll just sell it and get something else." My wife (who holds the purse-strings in the family) is not the sort who would think much of my wanting to "try on" various machines in order to find the one that's right. I have to "get it right" the first time, or else learn to love whatever I end up riding. As cost is a fairly big factor (and to my wife, the single biggest factor by far), I may just try to find a low-mileage Buddy 125 on the used market, even if it is at the expense of the manufacturer's warranty. My biggest concern is that I would have little or no idea in regard to how the bike was treated during it's life. I my mind it's false economy to buy something used and without a warranty and then turn around and spend the money you saved over buying new on repairs.

~Ken

[Ken]

My derestricted 50 gets about 75 mpg.

See, I'm a little surprised by this. The restricted Buddy 50 has been said to get 100+ mpg, so it seems strange that an unrestricted Buddy 50 would suffer from a 25 mpg loss. The Buddy 125 (which is, admittedly, a 4-stroke) appears to get between 85 and 90 mpg if everything I've read and heard is right. Even the Stella, which is three times the displacement of the Buddy 50 (and a 2-stroke as well), is rated at 85+ mpg. Of course, you did say that you ride with the throttle wide open most of the time, so perhaps that accounts for it.

I'm showing my ignorance here, but is there any appreciable difference in mileage between a 2-stroke and a 4-stroke, all other things being equal?

~Ken

[Keys]

Yes. A two stroke will traditionally get poorer mileage than a 4-stroke of similar displacement. A Stella will, in reality, get in the 60 mpg area ridden reasonably. A two-stroke 50 cc. will usually deliver similar mileage to the 125 Buddy...maybe a little more, but not much.

--Keys

[gt1000]

I agree, that's good advice. GT, I don't know if you were pointing that at me in particular (and it's fine if you were).

Nope, I honestly was not. Just making a very general statement.

[gt1000]

Ken, I think you're on the right track by trying to get it right the first time. While some folks luck out, the majority will lose money purchasing a beater and then trading up. I've been through Denton a few times and to my way of thinking, I'd want something more than a 50 for tooling around North Texas. But ultimately it's a choice you have to make. You need to take a hard, critical look at the roads you'll ride regularly as well as the roads you might ride. If you want to hang onto your scoot for a long time you want a versatile scooter and a 50 isn't as versatile as a 150.

If you buy used you want to know your scoot's history. Get all service records and buy from someone honest, like maybe someone who's been on this board for a while. But again, if you want to minimize heartache, go for a new scoot. I'm not sure a Buddy is your best bet and none of us have had our Buddys for more than two years, so there's no real history of dependability. Buddys do seem to be well made and I've had zero problems over 16 months, but that's not a long time.

Finally, 2 strokes will return less mileage than 4 strokes. If you decide you need more speed and kit it, mileage will go down, possibly dramatically. My last 50 averaged just under 70 mpg until I kitted it and mileage dropped below 60. My first break-in tank on the Buddy returned about 95 mpg but once broken in, my average is 84 mpg because the Buddy's throttle is addictive. I don't ride like a madman either, but I like surprising cagers.

So, think long and hard about what you want and what you need and then start test driving. You've already given it a lot of thought, I'm guessing you'll choose wisely.

[Drumwoulf]

My derestricted 50 gets about 75 mpg.

See, I'm a little surprised by this. The restricted Buddy 50 has been said to get 100+ mpg, so it seems strange that an unrestricted Buddy 50 would suffer from a 25 mpg loss. The Buddy 125 (which is, admittedly, a 4-stroke) appears to get between 85 and 90 mpg if everything I've read and heard is right. Even the Stella, which is three times the displacement of the Buddy 50 (and a 2-stroke as well), is rated at 85+ mpg. Of course, you did say that you ride with the throttle wide open most of the time, so perhaps that accounts for it.

I'm showing my ignorance here, but is there any appreciable difference in mileage between a 2-stroke and a 4-stroke, all other things being equal?

~Ken

Scooter manufacturers and scooter owners all lie like hell about scooter MPGs! Or else they give you the mileage they obtain while going 35 MPH on a downhill with a good wind behind them... If you got a smaller displacement ride (like a 125cc) and use it on the faster 65 MPH roads, you hafta ride it WFO much of the time and you ain't not gonna get the best mileage thataway bro!
Depending upon your throttle preferences, I would guestimate the 125 Buddy would prolly get 75 to 80 MPGs, at best. As I only use my Buddy 125 for puddle jumping, I haven't checked mine out yet for mileage, but I prolly will soon.
However I do know that my 200cc Vespa GT 's 2.5 gal tank generally gets a refill on the safe side of 160 miles......

[Keys]

I have gotten a low of 74 mpg and a high of 96 on my Buddy 125, so they aren't far off...

--Keys

[ericalm]

There are a lot of factors that go into estimating MPGs—I think there may be a standard formula for such things? Either way, you experience will vary by the type of riding you do, your weight, tire inflation, modifications and so on.

My wife gets 90 MPGs on her Buddy while riding in city traffic. She's pretty aggressive with the throttle from a stop; it's not like she cruises at a leisurely pace. Still, I'm sure I would get significantly less (I haven't checked it out) because I weigh more and because It just takes more gas to get me up that hill.