Buddy upgrade to 210cc!!!

[Corsair]

They already have a smaller kit developed but they never released that one

[gt1000]

Only 2 valves? What a disappointment!

[Parkerl]

Told you guys, im thinking about doing it! but i just got mine and i dont want to void the warranty

[Dooglas]

Hmmm. Might want to ask why Genuine would sell a 210 kit for existing 125 Buddys, but would not choose to market a 210cc model? We'll see what happens, but I wouldn't hold your breath. I think there are some good reasons why the 200/250 Vespa models have many frame and component differences from the 125/150 models.

[Roose Hurro]

Hmmm. Might want to ask why Genuine would sell a 210 kit for existing 125 Buddys, but would not choose to market a 210cc model? We'll see what happens, but I wouldn't hold your breath. I think there are some good reasons why the 200/250 Vespa models have many frame and component differences from the 125/150 models.

That's easy... because the 200/250 engines won't fit in the 125/150 frame. Though, most likely, it was simply to give people the choice of a bigger bike, overall, just like the diff between the small and large-frame Vespas of old. Oh, and if you put the bigger engine in the smaller frame, you'd have to give up some underseat storage capacity, as well....


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[monza]

That's easy... because the 200/250 engines won't fit in the 125/150 frame.

Actually in the case of a Vespa ET4 you can fit the 200cc motor from a GT or BV since both the 150 & 200 are "Leader" motors. You only need to find somewhere for the liquid cooling stuff.

Most of the time the frames are bigger just because it is a larger heavier scooter. Nearly all of the 200/250 scoots are maxi and weigh 350+.

I would feel quite comfortable on something the size of a buddy or ET4 with a 200/250 assuming the brakes and shocks were upgraded. Not because the weight of the engine is so much more (because it really isnt much increase) but rather because of the huge increase in power and potential speed.

[BuddyRaton]

The back brakes seem to only be good to slow you down, to stop really quickly you hit the front brake and you stop immediately. When you enter a turn at too much speed you can only use the back brake to correct your situation. this is when I feel it is not atiquate. Thanks everyone for their input,

If you need to brake after entering a turn well.... you enterd a turnwith too much speed. As others mentioned locking up the rear can easily lead to a highside when traction is regained! Correct braking is to use BOTH brakes. My technique is to apply front braking to shift the inertia forward followed quickly by adding rear braking. Using both greatly decreases stopping distances and lets you stay in control. I think the Buddy's brakes are way above average! The only reason to go to a rear disc would be for ABS.

[illnoise]

Might want to ask why Genuine would sell a 210 kit for existing 125 Buddys, but would not choose to market a 210cc model?

Simple. PGO does not manufacture a 210 on their assembly line, and if Genuine uncrated the scooters, upgraded them, and then sent them to dealers, it would cost way too much. You've got to remember, as great as it sounds to have a 210cc buddy, it's going to be a limited market, because for all the cost of upgrading, there are plenty of higher-displacement (and frankly, better-engineered) bikes out there. And again, I'm thinking the cost and power are targeted at racing, it'll be more than you'd want to spend (and more power than you'd need) for everyday use. There will presumably be cheaper and more reliable upgrades for that (150 top ends and such).

Also, they're really shoehorning a lot of power into a small bike, so reliability (and EPA/DOT approval) might go out the window. Plus there are too many options for other upgrades that go along with it.

Certainly, dealers will be throwing these into bikes and keeping one on the floor, ready-to-go, at a premium that will cover the cost of the kit and their expenses (something for mechanics to do during slow periods). But they'll presumably be sold as "racing-only" bikes and/or titled as 125s, and w/o the Genuine warranty. The dealer makes some extra cash, Genuine sells more bikes (and more parts) and the customer gets the speed-freak death trap (s)he's always wanted, everyone's happy. : )

If these kits are actually PGO-made, maybe we will see a "stock" 210 eventually, but I'm guessing they're having them custom-made by NCY or someone.

As far as 4 valves, it's probably just not practical, cost- and space-wise.

Bb.

[BuddyRaton]

Very good points...
But it would be fun to do!

[ericalm]

PGO does, however, still make a 200cc engine. Or at least they did least year. Huh. [EDIT: Nope, not anymore. The do make a 250 for the G-Max. A Blur 250 would have been nice. Anyways...]

This isn't a cylinder kit in the "usual" sense. It looks like a replacement for half the damn engine! The person who posted the Flickr images (I've invited him to add them to the Buddy Flickr group and to visit the forum because we're also so curious) called it a "conversion," which I think is more accurate than "kit."

Told you guys, im thinking about doing it! but i just got mine and i dont want to void the warranty

Yeah, kiss about 75% of what's covered goodbye if you install this thing. If warranty is really a concern, wait 2 years, then add it. Or maybe decide you don't really want or need to.

[Sl,ut4]

I notice a lot of you guys are worried about the top speed. Of course going fast is fun but thats only half of it. Getting there is the fun part!
The 210 kit is realistic. Overbore kits like the 210 are just reliable as the stock configuration as long as you do them correctly. IE~ Replace the crank and the rod.
As far as just buying a 200cc scoot goes, power to weight ratio is huge. For example, I was at the track with my 450hp 3700lb AWD Audi getting my ass kicked by a Lotus Exige cup car that had a mere 245hp but only weighed in at 1900lb!
I would take a 210 Buddy over a People S250 any day for performance

This buddy hit 70mph in 1/4 mile @ 4800ft MSL.

- Prima Pipe / Rejet / UNI Filter / 14.5-12.5 Weights / 5000 RPM Clutch Spring.

[5 bud7]

Have you ever , or can you do a timed 1\4 test on a simularly modified 125 buddy? this would be very interesting to forum members and new purchasers. thanks

[KRUSTYburger]

You know, an indicated 45 is fast enough for me! Beyond that, I start to imagine myself flying over the handle bars and landing a la Eviel Knieval at Caesar's:

AGREED! Well, once you get in one accident, you can vividly imagine it happening again and again in every possible scenerio... it's kinda annoying. I try to keep it under the red line if I can help it around here.

[jrsjr]

...once you get in one accident, you can vividly imagine it happening again and again in every possible scenerio... it's kinda annoying.

Don't I know it?!?

Sign Me,
Been There, Done That, Got the T-Shirt

[chuckt2]

I drive my little Buddy 125 at full throttle with no experience of squirrelly behavior. I think if the 210cc kit were to become available, I would probably buy it. There is nothing in the rule book that says you would have to drive it at top speed if you didn't want to. The extra torque and accelleration would be fun. I know a lot of Corvette owners that have rarely gone over 100mph, when their car is capable of 160mph plus. Like I said there is no rule that you have to take it to the limit unless you feel comfortable doing it.

[Roose Hurro]

My thoughts on such an upgrade? I like the added hill-climbing performance it would bring, along with the higher top speed....


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[jfrost2]

Top speed with 1 person would probably be 75+mph, fun, but you'd probably need performance shocks to take on higher speeds/bumps.

[Sl,ut4]

Have you ever , or can you do a timed 1\4 test on a simularly modified 125 buddy? this would be very interesting to forum members and new purchasers. thanks

With the 12V pre-installed, I'm sure I can.
I need to locate a timer though.
I'll keep you posted.

[rajron]

So, wha happened?
Where’s the big motor?
Lotta talk about it, but, is there anything else?

I wrote to Scooterwroks, they didn’t bother responding to me – I would/will buy the new motor, if it was available, but I can’t get any info.

Anyone have more about this??

[illnoise]

I wrote to Scooterwroks, they didn’t bother responding to me.

Nor to me, about this or the 250cc automatic nuclear-powered six-stroke Stella, and I'M THE PRESS, DAMNIT! I even made a little press ID card, like in 1997, so I'm totally legit.

I think they just have no interest in communicating with the public, I always find out about stuff via dealers, and it always seems like dealers don't talk until Genuine wants them to "leak" it. They also have a few dealers who are clearly "favorites," (I'll let you guess who they are) and always find out about stuff earlier than everyone else.

Bb.