TOUR OF PGO FACTORY!!!!!!!!

[Smellybumlove]

woohoo i called up and asked nicely and i was given permission to tour the whole factory and to ask as many questions as i want!.

im so excited as i got my lovely nikon back from its service and im dying to try out my photography skills plus i have a HD camera and a 16gb sd card ready to roll

I hope you dont mind but i did a little BS by saying i was a moderator fro mthis forum doing a article

anyway im really crap with questions and they are asking me to provide them in writing for them before i arrive so can you guys help me out, what would you like to know and like me to look into?.

[babblefish]

You lucky bum! Er, that is, our definition of a bum - "a vagrant; beggar; loafer" - not your rear end...

Anyway, ask them if there are any plans to officially sell their products under their name in the States. Tell them with gasoline prices skyrocketing toward $5US a gallon and beyond, scooter sales here are at an all time high of at least 3 units a month - OK, maybe lie just a little bit on the volume. Tell them there is at least one sure sale of a G-Max 250!

Please do take lots of pictures and post them when you get a chance.

[Smellybumlove]

You lucky bum! Er, that is, our definition of a bum - "a vagrant; beggar; loafer" - not your rear end...

thats the whole point, you see in my halo days all the players on live were americans and if i called myself smellya**love it:

A) wouldnt of been allowed due to well... it being pretty crude
B) you americans would of just hurled homosexual insults at me all day (i have no issues with gays or lesbians, your all cool in my book !!

but i knew your bum meant homeless people and OUR bum meant well 'rear end', so i got away with it for a long time until more brits started to join and well it werent as funny no more as you americans started to realise what it meant!.

remember if anyone is called smellybumlove and they aint english, its not me and its borderline copywrite infringment or something...

anyway back on topic heres my questions so far in no perticular order!

Q1) Why was the name changed for the BUBU, G-MAX and PMX for some export markets but not others?.
Q2) PGO distribute throughout the world but the USA is dealt with by another brand with its own variations of PGO scooters, why was this for the USA and not other western countries?
Q3) Do PGO still build for YAMAHA?.
Q4) The PMX110 is immensely popular in Japan and in the USA (known as the rattler 110) there has been rumours and sightings of a PGO with a new 4T engine with off-road styling similar to the PMX and new YAMAHA BWS, is this true and when will we expect a release?.
Q5) Will PGO be bringing out a new version of its 2T 106cc engine in the near future?.
Q6) Performance and aftermarket parts are very hard to get hold of in Taiwan and other countries, will you consider launching some yourself in the future or helping other manufacturers in producing their own?.
Q7) For the Genuine Buddy, do you build everything in your Taiwan factory or do you supply it bare bones to Genuine and have them alter it themselves?.
Q8) Is there a possibility of a larger displacement BUBU/BUDDY and PMX/RATTLER 110?.
Q9) With gasoline prices on the increase, scooters are becoming more and more popular as a everyday choice for commuting in the USA, is it a possibility that PGO will be ‘officially’ selling scooters there in the near future?.
Q10) On the buddy forums we have many members frequently asking about the G-MAX 200 and 250 (known to us as the BLUR) will you be exporting the larger capacity BLURS/G-MAX for the USA?.
Q11) I recently rode a G-MAX 200 and personally own a PMX 110 in Taiwan, I couldn’t help but notice that the acceleration is much slower on scooters in Taiwan as standard, Do you supply scooters with different states of tune for other country’s or is this only for Taiwan.

[babblefish]

I think those are some excellent questions. When are you taking this tour?

Don't forget, tell them they'd sell at least one(1) G-Max 250 here!

[Smellybumlove]

tomorrow 11am my time.
im excited but also a bit sceptical, im worried they just show me very little, kinda like a kid going to disneyland gets hopefull and gets there and its crap

[ericalm]

I hope you dont mind but i did a little BS by saying i was a moderator fro mthis forum doing a article

I know your intentions were innocent in doing this, but you—or others—could cause a lot of trouble for me and the forum misrepresenting yourself like this and making arrangements under false pretenses. They probably would have given you the tour if you'd said you were a member here (true) and were planning on posting an article and photos here (also true). If you'd needed some extra credentials, it would have been best to ask me first. So, for everyone else, please don't do anything like this without asking.

That said, I think the tour should be cool and am looking forward to seeing your photos.

As far as your questions, I think some of them have well-known answers already...

Q1) Why was the name changed for the BUBU, G-MAX and PMX for some export markets but not others?.

Marketing. Those names may work in Asia, but not in English-speaking countries, where BuBu is pronounced the same as "booboo," which means an accident or small injury. Not a good name for a scooter!

Q2) PGO distribute throughout the world but the USA is dealt with by another brand with its own variations of PGO scooters, why was this for the USA and not other western countries

The USA is a HUGE market that would be very expensive—and risky—for an unknown (here) Asian scooter company to enter. Teaming with Genuine in the U.S. allowed PGO to sell in the market while having another company which has a better understanding of the American scooter, an existing dealer network, knowledge of all the state and federal laws on scooters (DOT requirements, emissions) and import, and a proven ability to market and successfully launch a new product in the U.S. to assume much of the expense and risk. The fact that the scooters are re-branded as "Genuine" scooters is irrelevant because PGO is not known here, Genuine already has a solid reputation, and it's all about sales, not branding. I think it's paid off!

Q9) With gasoline prices on the increase, scooters are becoming more and more popular as a everyday choice for commuting in the USA, is it a possibility that PGO will be ‘officially’ selling scooters there in the near future?.

I think they are officially selling here. PGO does have similar distribution deals in other countries. The big difference in the U.S. is the re-branding of the scooters. I'm also fairly certain (but do not know for sure) that whatever deal they have with Genuine would prevent PGO from directly selling scooters here under their own brand.

Q10) On the buddy forums we have many members frequently asking about the G-MAX 200 and 250 (known to us as the BLUR) will you be exporting the larger capacity BLURS/G-MAX for the USA?.

Everyone wants to know!

[jfrost2]

Ask them if they'll make a 200cc bubu.

[KRUSTYburger]

What about the 4T Automatic STELLA?!

[EP_scoot]

Krusty,
Stella is made by LML in India, not PGO.
FYI

[jfrost2]

Yea, remember, genuine deals with 2 companies, PGO and LML, then rebadges them as "The Genuine scooters"

Find out how much they sell bikes to Genuine for!

[illnoise]

Yea, remember, genuine deals with 2 companies, PGO and LML, then rebadges them as "The Genuine scooters"

Rumor has it there might be some cross-pollination coming up, actually. But there's no way in hell they're going to leak anything about that.

And, for the record, I'd hardly call the Rattler 110 "Immensely popular." And the Blur didn't set any sales records or generate much consumer interest, either. I think it's been pretty well-documented that they didn't bring the 200 in because the price-to-performance ratio was too low (it would have been an extra several hundred bucks for a very minimal increase in power). The 250 was an entirely different platform that was discontinued worldwide shortly after the Blur 150 was introduced. I'd personally rather see the 4-valve 150 here than the 200 or 250, that seems like the real winner of the lineup. 150cc is the sweet spot for scooters as far as I'm concerned.

PGO, TGB, SYM, and Kymco have all really nailed the 50-200 market, and have been setting their sights on bigger displacements for the export market, but I think the bigger engines are getting Kymco into trouble, so I hope PGO will stick to its strengths.

Looking forward to your report, SBL, and I'd love to repost it on 2strokebuzz with your permission.

Bryan

[jfrost2]

PGO back then did make their own PX150 clone, it wasnt 100% copy like LML makes, but it had the same frame style. They might remake it.

[illnoise]

I'm wondering if these higher 4T/displacement/automatic Stellas will be powered by modern PGO engines. That would be great for Genuine for a parts/service standpoint, but I don't know how they'd shoehorn it into a vintage frame, you'd face all the same problems as CMSI did trying to make the "new lambretta" (well aside from funding, trademark infringement, too many cooks, etc, ha)

Bb.

[FA-Q]

Get us the scoop on the electric Buddy. There needs to be a quality electric scoot that is cost comparable to a gas scoot. Do you really want 200-250cc's under the hood of a flyweight Buddy with 10" wheels? I think a retro PGO all metal scoot like the late 70's early 80's PGO models would do well.

[jfrost2]

They could fit it in like a Bajaj chetak. It looks identical to a px150 mount of the engine, but it's the modern plastic, and modern engine design. But it still has a classic look to it.

[brimstone]

asking about a bigger rattler motor, a 125 2 stroke or 150 2 stroke would be fricken sweet.

[Smellybumlove]

wow a lot of response, which is a good thing

ok misrepresenting was a split second decision but im pretty sure the missus didnt specify which forum i was from so everything should be cool, unless they press me .

everything has been noted which wasnt already in the questions and hopefully will be answered, who knows they might not say anything but with this being taiwan and everybody being easy going and friendly so im sure they will open up!.

as for the whole thing about me saying the rattler is VERY popular, well yes its a exageration but im a 2 stroke nut and have been depressed since they are all dying out, i really want them to carry on with a niche 2 stroke so will try to give them reason to!. a 150 2 stroke would be AWESOME!.

as for the big capacity buddy, well it just aint gonna happen unless it gets bigger wheels, so the question i will be asking is are they considering a big wheeled version of the buddy .

also ericalm, you said that pgo teamed with genuine as the US market is so big but i fail to see the point, genuine is a TINY company with nowhere near as much revenue as PGO, the only reason i could see is that PGO was just testing waters and i doubt genuine can stop PGO coming over if they decide to do so.

alot of the questions we may think we have answers for but i thought i would ask them anyway just to see the official reason for it.

as for going behind genuines backs, well its not really as they are just a reseller and dont have that much of a sway in what PGO do or build.

ok wish me luck, i made sure all the batterys are charged, in fact i had to do a emergency 11pm rush to nikon to get a new charger as mine failed, good job i tested before hand!

[Sunil]

Good luck and have fun! I cant wait to see your pictures!

[jmazza]

also ericalm, you said that pgo teamed with genuine as the US market is so big but i fail to see the point, genuine is a TINY company with nowhere near as much revenue as PGO, the only reason i could see is that PGO was just testing waters and i doubt genuine can stop PGO coming over if they decide to do so.

I can't imagine Genuine would have signed any deal to rebrand and distribute PGO scooters that would allow PGO to come over and do it themselves and therefore usurp the market that Genuine has created.

I think there would be a pretty standard noncompete clause in their deal.

[FA-Q]

As for the Genuine/PGO thing. A company like PGO will get a local distributer to certify and market their scooters for distribution in that country. This is a binding contract (unless it's some generic chinese scooter) usually with numbers of units sold and a time period attached. Although they would prefer to have the scoots badged "PGO" They were fortunate to hook up with Genuine and their slick marketing. I think they would see TGB type numbers with a generic PGO USA distributor.

[illnoise]

I think they would see TGB type numbers with a generic PGO USA distributor.

Exactly. I've said that many times, if PGO'd brought over the BuBu and sold it as a PGO, it'd be next to ignored, even though it's a great bike. Genuine gave it cachet and built an american market and community around it.

TGB and SYM had a great opportunity to do the same thing, and their importers (Cobra and Carter) opted to pretty much ignore marketing, branding, and advertising, and even though they're both great manufacturers with good dealer networks, their bikes just aren't making nearly the impact that Kymco and Genuine/PGO have.

A higher-displacement BuBu/Buddy isn't a question of bigger wheels, it'd take a whole new frame and suspension. There are enough other bikes in that market. A Buddy 250 wouldn't be a Buddy anymore.

[BGK]

Exactly. I've said that many times, if PGO'd brought over the BuBu and sold it as a PGO, it'd be next to ignored, even though it's a great bike. Genuine gave it cachet and built an american market and community around it.

It's not just that they rebranded it. They built their dealer network with a unique product before they even brought the PGOs. It's hard to say the buddy would have done as well if not for the Stella. One bike that had a hook and now a simple line-up. It's a miracle they found success without a full line of choppers, mid-sized sport bikes and ATVs and at least a half dozen scooter models to start off with. The rest of the 'up and coming' powersports industry leads me to believe that's the way to go...

[jfrost2]

PGO makes a great bike, but they wouldnt be popular if brought to the USA. Genuine created the buddy's fame as we know it today.

[illnoise]

It's hard to say the buddy would have done as well if not for the Stella. One bike that had a hook and now a simple line-up. It's a miracle they found success without a full line of choppers, mid-sized sport bikes and ATVs and at least a half dozen scooter models to start off with. The rest of the 'up and coming' powersports industry leads me to believe that's the way to go...

Totally, Brooke.

That's why I think they (PGO AND Genuine) are smart to stick to what they do best. Kymco's expanded their line too much and I think it's hurt them. They, and Carter (SYM) and Cobra (TGB) have too wide a range of products. Genuine's total dedication to a handful of really solid scooters, and their background and knowledge of the vintage scooter market and scene, always meant they were going to be the scooterist's scooter company, and it worked out great for them. There's no one selling scooters in America, not even Piaggio/Vespa, that has the long-term future of american scootering in their heads like Genuine.

All these companies know this boom is going to end sooner or later. When it does, Vespa will f*** off back to Italy like they did the last six times they graced us with their presence, and wait for the next boom, then come back and trample all over everyone ineptly as usual. Cobra and Carter will non-committally jump on the next powersports bandwagon, maybe one of them will survive. Kymco will probably hang on for a while, hoping ATV sales replace scooter sales. They'll pump money into their automatic motorcycle, which will never be a hit. Honda and Yamaha will scale back their U.S. scooter offerings (Honda already has). And Genuine/Scooterworks will still be selling a respectable amount of scooters, through a smaller but even more solid network of dealers, and selling parts and accessories for all the other brands that disappeared, they'll probably be better off during the slow period, without all the competition.

Bb.

[jrsjr]

also ericalm, you said that pgo teamed with genuine as the US market is so big but i fail to see the point, genuine is a TINY company with nowhere near as much revenue as PGO, the only reason i could see is that PGO was just testing waters and i doubt genuine can stop PGO coming over if they decide to do so.

It would totally depend on their concractual arrangement. In the United States, contract law is both binding and enforcable.

[voodoosix]

id like to know what they are building for other brands- what and who for.

[illnoise]

It would totally depend on their concractual arrangement. In the United States, contract law is both binding and enforcable.

Well, you can enforce it in the U.S., but not in China, look at Schwinn and TNG... TNG sued Schwinn for stealing their supplier (dunno how that was ever resolved), but that had no ramifications on the original supplier, they had no problem breaking their exclusivity agreement. When you sign an exclusivity agreement with a Chinese manufacturer, and think you're the only person importing them, chances are good that you'll get to dealer expo and find three other importers selling them, AND the manufacturer there looking for more importers.

The ROC, of course, is a capitalist democracy, and they have actual business ethics, so I don't see PGO trying to pull that off directly. But you never know if they'd supply parts or bikes to other manufacturers who might compete with Genuine, because of prior relationships and agreements.

[FA-Q]

I think the SYM Vogue has great potential and the old school Kymco People had great potential. Offering accessories and colors to personalize a scooter makes sense and dollars. It makes more sense with a retro scoot that appeals to females as they are more likely to funk it up. Females also must account for 65% of scooter sales. Anyone got stats?

[babblefish]

Hey Smellybumlove! You out there?! How was your tour and where are the pictures?

[ericalm]

Hey Smellybumlove! You out there?! How was your tour and where are the pictures?

Smellybumlove has unfortunately been banned from the forum. Quite a few suspicions were raised about his motivations and trustworthiness when he originally tried to arrange parts buys in Taiwan for members. He then inappropriately misrepresented himself as being a moderator here to gain entry to PGO. This not only irked me, but also further raised my suspicions. We knew nothing about this guy, his business, or intentions. For all I know, he works for another scooter company in the US or Taiwan and was trying to get a peek at what's going on at PGO.

So I temporarily suspended his account and emailed him. I politely apologized for having to question him, but felt that for the protection of the members and integrity of the forum, I had to know a little more about him.

I asked whether he had any financial interest in or represented any scooter or parts manufacturer, importer, exporter or distributor. Haven't heard a word from him since.

So now he's banned.

I cannot have people running around claiming to represent the forum. It could get me in serious hot water and also create issues between the forum and Genuine. The company has never tried to interfere here and has been very responsive to any questions I've had in the past. We have a good relationship, in the sense that they let us be but are there if we need them. At the same time, I have no obligations to them so am free to be as critical as I deem necessary. (Though as some may have noticed I'm a stickler for balance, reason and fact. Probably comes from working in journalism/editorial for so long.)

I don't want ModernBuddy to become a marketplace for various companies or individuals operating a business. The For Sale/Wanted section is for members—individuals—to use. The members also do a fine job of recommending sources for parts, gear, etc. without the dealers coming in and trying to sell their wares here. Dealers have stayed away from the forum for the same reasons Genuine has. MB is all about the owners, our experiences, opinions and so on. I'd like to keep it that way.

I'd also like to prevent anyone from getting duped by some guy who just shows up one day, then starts trying to sell parts and so on. I don't know if this was a scam, a business he was trying to start on the side, or something more insidious. I suspect I never will.

[addictionriot]

Ouch

I think you did the right thing.

[KABanshee]

Wow, I never seen any of that coming. I was throwing around the idea of ordering from him eventually. I was going to wait and see if he was legit or not first though. Guess we will never know. It did seem like an odd scenario/opportunity. I think you did the right thing. Being the owner of this site you have to make these types of decision. Way to go with your gut feeling. You definately made my wife happy by saving me from spending money on upgrades.

[DennisD]

Thanks for being vigilant and taking action.

But ohhhh, the pics of those shops! Why not here!

Dennis

[BuddyLicious]

Hey I was hoping,if Smellybumlove did take a number of pics of the factory,could they be ran thru the moderator for review,then posted? At least
we could see the pics then,without motives harming anyone.Pretty Please!

Tim

[FA-Q]

Let Genuine or some other scooter parts company know you want more parts for your scooters. You want a local distributer to offer a warranty and have the ability to exchange the wrong part you might be sent. In many cases a part might "almost" fit or work. This could cause problems or require other parts to make it all work in harmony. Buyer beware!

[MikieTaps]

Ouch

I think you did the right thing.

I second that, good lookin' out!

[Piedmont]

Let Genuine or some other scooter parts company know you want more parts for your scooters. You want a local distributer to offer a warranty and have the ability to exchange the wrong part you might be sent. In many cases a part might "almost" fit or work. This could cause problems or require other parts to make it all work in harmony. Buyer beware!

I think this is the solution right here folks. If you want parts, let them know! Personally, I think that if parts were available Scooterworks would be selling them. Who knows what's in the works though, and if they feel the demand is there, they'll have something out.

[ericalm]

Thanks for being understanding, guys. I was eager to hear about this, too.

How badly do you guys want parts? Group trip to Taiwan!

Hey I was hoping,if Smellybumlove did take a number of pics of the factory,could they be ran thru the moderator for review,then posted? At least
we could see the pics then,without motives harming anyone.Pretty Please!

Tim

I don't even know if the tour ever happened. As I said, I emailed him and gave him a chance to respond. I wasn't accusatory and just said it was because I had responsibilities and was concerned about his using the name of the forum to get into the factory. He never replied. So...

Genuine used to have some images of the factory on their site but has since redesigned so I can't find 'em now.

[illnoise]

I at first thought Eric was overreacting, but the more I think about it, he probably did the right thing.

I've said many times what FA-Q just said, the Buddy is possibly the top-selling scooter in the U.S. if there was seriously good stuff out there, Genuine (or MRP or SOMEONE) would be selling it here. I've seen some REALLY dubious quality stuff from Asia, poor metallurgy, poor design, blatant trademark infringement on inferior parts, so I was a bit wary at first, and when he slagged NCY parts, which seem far better than a lot of stuff I'd seen from Asia, I started to wonder about his motivations, too.

Maybe we overreacted, maybe he was just an enthusiastic and friendly guy, but it's a bit strange he didn't respond to Eric and it was presumptuous of him to represent himself as a MB moderator, so I stand behind Eric's choice, too.

Bb.

[polianarchy]

Ya, +1 to what ericalm & illnoise said.

[MPA]

He's actually on the Rattler Yahoo Group and was saying that he did reply to Eric's inquiry and never heard anything back.

hmm i never got a reply or my ban lifted after politely aswering the
questions...i already told this guy that i have nothing to do with any company and that PGO were never told i was from the forums, my wife never even mentioned it though i did ask her to.

Anyway I'm just passing this info on

[KABanshee]

Ya, +1 to what ericalm and illnoise and polianarchy and Piedmont and MikieTaps and FA-Q and BuddyLicious and DennisD and addictionriot and wheelies said

[ericalm]

He's actually on the Rattler Yahoo Group and was saying that he did reply to Eric's inquiry and never heard anything back.

hmm i never got a reply or my ban lifted after politely aswering the
questions...i already told this guy that i have nothing to do with any company and that PGO were never told i was from the forums, my wife never even mentioned it though i did ask her to.

Anyway I'm just passing this info on

Well, I never got anything... So... maybe he's just trying to salvage his rep there. whatever. I'm certainly not going to get into a back & forth with the guy, a his word vs. mine thing. Now anyone wanting to know how the tour went or willing to gamble some money on parts can go to the Rattler forum.

[nissanman]

Let's not get our noses bent outta shape here. I think everybody can see where the wheels fell off this thing, but it's time to let it pass. A 24yr old made a poor decision, and now he's facing the consequences. I would not have chosen the path he did... but that may just be experience being my guide. To be fair he did mention that anything he helped to buy would be set up through a service like paypal (Ebay), and paypal does have security measures in place. That would've made him as dangerous or honest as any other ebay seller out there. We'll never know for sure and in 24hrs from now it'll be SSDD aka business as usual.

For the record I think everybody's decisions and actions in this whole mess are the only way they could've gone. No sympathy here, no bashing either.

[babblefish]

Although I understand that the banning was done with the best interest of this forum in mind, I can't help but feel that the "dark ages" continues. Whatever perceived "wrong" Smellybumlove may have done, he did at least give people a glimse at what is possible. I look forward to a time when we can enjoy some of the cutting edge scooters that are being ridden in many other parts of the world - for at least the past 20 years...

[jfrost2]

He's a spy, who just so happens to own a rattler. And besides, PGO wouldnt give a factory tour of their place, it isnt like you can just email the president from their website and ask him directly. Customer service would think you are joking. And even if there was a tour, cameras usually arent allowed.

[babblefish]

He's a spy, who just so happens to own a rattler. And besides, PGO wouldnt give a factory tour of their place, it isnt like you can just email the president from their website and ask him directly. Customer service would think you are joking. And even if there was a tour, cameras usually arent allowed.

Wow! When did we teleport back to the '50s and the Cold War and how do I get off this train?

[jmazza]

He's a spy, who just so happens to own a rattler.

Actually everybody knows that Rattler Buck Ten's are standard issue KGB vehicles. There's no "just so happens" about it!!

[brimstone]

For the Mother Land!!!

carefull, we may have to keel you.

[Othergods]

Technically in Soviet Russia wouldn't the rattler own you?