Security Alarms / Immobilizers / Locks

[polianarchy]

So Philly is the "City of Brotherly Savages", eh?

--Keys

Indeed, in this City Of Brotherly Love, what's a Sister to do?!

There's a new slogan, "Philly: The City That Loves You Back." However, I think the "joke" one is a more apt description, "Philly: The City That Shoves You Back."

[polianarchy]

For those of you that have either Kryptonite or OnGuard, have you used the lock as a disc lock? I read that it can be used as one. How does that work?

The Kryptonite lock cannot be used as a disc lock, as its shaft is too big. I do believe Kryptonite makes a disc lock for motorcycles. I thought it was a bit expensive, so I bought another disc lock to use instead of the NY Noose when I'm just popping into a store for a hot minute. Here's the link:

Disc Lock from eBay

[BlueMark]

For those of you that have either Kryptonite or OnGuard, have you used the lock as a disc lock? I read that it can be used as one. How does that work?

Kryptonite confuses the issue by calling the internal mechanism for some of their better high security locks a "disc lock" - they use a funky flat key that can't be easily picked and doesn't suffer from the 'bic pen' vulnerability of their old round key locks.

Then there is also the "disc lock" that locks on the brake disc of disc brakes.

I have both.

I use a disc lock on my front wheel disc. And I lock my massive heavy chain with an EV "Disc" shackle lock.

-Mark

[Corsair]

Thanks for clearing that up because I couldn't figure out how to make that work at all ...lol Well looks like I'll be ordering a REAL disc lock then. With the disc lock it does prevent the scooter from being rolled right? I was originally looking into the grip lock but I'd rather have something that stops someone from just rolling the scooter down the block. I'm just looking for some decent security for when I can chain my scooter up.

[Corsair]

which size disc lock to get? (5mm or 10mm) Also anyone know about the quality of BULLY or DIAMOND PLATE disc locks? Does the brand actually make a difference when it comes to disc locks or is it just all marketing?

[sunshinen]

I also think my way is more secure, since it encompasses the entire frame of the scooter, and not just a bit of kickstand

Just to clarify, visually, where the dealers are telling many of us to lock. As weaseltamer pointed out, it's not the kickstand, but part of the frame near the kickstand. If you get down and look at it you can see it is all welded metal. With the cinch loop, I find it very easy to wrap the chain around something connected to the ground and just loop the lock over the metal bit of frame.

Sorry my drawing with a mouse skills are pretty poor, but hopefully anyone looking for an option that requires less chain can get a better idea.

[polianarchy]

Just to clarify, visually, where the dealers are telling many of us to lock. As weaseltamer pointed out, it's not the kickstand, but part of the frame near the kickstand. If you get down and look at it you can see it is all welded metal.

Ah, okeh! Thanks for clarifying that for me. Perhaps I'll give that method a try and see if it's easier to manage than my current method.

[BlueMark]

You don't want to run the chain through a part of the bike that can be unbolted, like the center stand. Go through the frame proper, or tightly around the whole thing as Polianarchy describes.

And that goes for whatever you are locking to. For instance a Stop Sign can be easily dismantled and the chain slipped up and off. A wooden fence post can be sawed, or simply lifted out of the ground. Ditto a small diameter tree.

There is no perfect answer - but you can try to make it as inconvenient as possible.

-Mark

[Marnor]

...They can get it. While scoots aren't as simple as bikes, a motivated enough crook can steal anything.

However, the general rule of thumb is that if it would take more than a few minutes, they're not interested.

In advance of bringing my Buddy home, I sank a serious steel pipe into a foot of concrete flush with a support beam of my back deck. When parking for the night, I cable lock the back tire to the pipe and beam, as well as the body with another chain. I apply a disk lock and cover it. It's not visible from the street. It's in a pretty dark nook down there. Beyond that, I rely on motion lights and my boxer to alert me to folks in the back yard. If some jerk were able to unbolt the thing, he'd have to figure out how to get either over a four foot retaining wall into one neighbor's yard or down another into my other neighbor's yard. The driveway is blocked by a car, and the other route to the street by a central air conditioning unit. I live on a pretty well-travelled road in Atlanta, and I'd like to think that a passerby would notice a potential theft.

While it's not impossible, I think the setup provides enough difficulty for the bad guys to think about it and walk away. Unless they bring four friends. My big fear is that some jackass could seriously damage my Buddy in an ill-fated attempt to steal it.

[BosBuddy]

OnGuard mastiff comes with a disc lock that goes around either of the front forks and a noose to go around even a large street lamp base. I got the long version which works great and fits in the open carrier.

Would you mind doing a closer picture of this? I have a mastiff and don't think I'm securing my scooter with it as well as I could.

[codemonkey]

I need to get one of those grip lock thingies. At home I park in the garage and at work we have great security (security guard at the gate, barbed wire fence, 24 hour surveillance) but I get a little nervous parking in regular parking lots at stores and the gym and stuff. I don't park in scary neighborhoods and it's usually broad daylight but still.

[lobsterman]

Marnor,

That's some serious belt and suspenders security you're using there.

As a technology professional, I can tell you that security is always a balancing act between convenience and safety.

For complete anti-theft security, I suggest a disc lock, a chain, an alarm, and sinking the Buddy into fresh cement whenever you park it.

I live within the city limits, and work downtown. When I park my scooter I use a disc lock and the steering lock that's built in. My goal is to slow down the garden variety unmotivated lazy thief who is looking for an easy opportunity so they go elsewhere. If a determined thief wants my scooter, he can get it. That's why I have insurance.

[Corsair]

What size disc lock fits the buddy? Just double checking before I order

[polianarchy]

What size disc lock fits the buddy? Just double checking before I order

I dunno where the size is listed, but this is the one I got off eBay in addition to my Kryptonite NY Noose & lock:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 0092919172

And yes, I got it because it's red.

[lobsterman]

What size disc lock fits the buddy? Just double checking before I order

I'll have to look at mine, I just walked into a local motorcyle supply shop and the guy there picked it for me. I got the impression there's not a whole lot of sizes, but mine came with multiple keys and one of the keys has a little LED on it so you find the lock in darker situations.

[EBee]

Yeh, but then you're stuck with buying a sidecar for the dawg.

Chain the Rotty to the scoot. Nobody will mess with it.

[johnny_buddha]

What size disc lock fits the buddy? Just double checking before I order

Dunno if you ordered yet but get the 5 mm pin. The 10 mm is just a tad too big.

I have this one...
http://www.kryptonitelock.com/Products/ ... 3&pid=1153

[Corsair]

Thanks johnny I haven't order the lock yet but now I will. Thanks again for the info.

[scullyfu]

i chained my scooter up at the target mall the other day by putting the chain around the rear shock and then secured it to a bike rack. the rear part of the scooter fits quite nicely into the bike rack.

here's my chain/lock that i got off ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Trimax-Bicycle-Moto ... dZViewItem

39inches is almost too short, so i'm considering getting another one to hook to it. and a disc lock.

[Eireann]

So I suppose I've been a bit naive up to this point. I live in LA, which definitely qualifies as a city, so I need to be more realistic about these things. Problem is, the places I park most frequently are secured garages, but unfortunately, there are no poles, etc, to secure the bike to there, and there's certainly nothing like that where I park at home. Also, I'm wary of the alarm route--sometimes people park *very* close to one another in these garages, and I don't want some poor sod to get chest pains because he bumped my Buddy by accident. You all have relieved me of my illusions about cable locks, which I do have but rarely use. So it looks like the disk lock and perhaps grip lock route for me. Any suggestions?

[ericalm]

So I suppose I've been a bit naive up to this point. I live in LA, which definitely qualifies as a city, so I need to be more realistic about these things. Problem is, the places I park most frequently are secured garages, but unfortunately, there are no poles, etc, to secure the bike to there, and there's certainly nothing like that where I park at home. Also, I'm wary of the alarm route--sometimes people park *very* close to one another in these garages, and I don't want some poor sod to get chest pains because he bumped my Buddy by accident. You all have relieved me of my illusions about cable locks, which I do have but rarely use. So it looks like the disk lock and perhaps grip lock route for me. Any suggestions?

Some alarms (see the Gorilla, here) have sensitivity settings to prevent them from accidentally going off. Not sure how well that works. Also not sure if alarms are that much of a deterrent.

Disk locks and grip locks are good at keeping the scoot from rolling, but I've heard stories (scooter urban myth, maybe?) of a scooter being loaded onto skateboards and rolled away and scooters being lifted up into pickup trucks, etc. Most of the actual thefts I've read about, though, have been straight-up hotwiring/destruction of the ignition and steering column lock. The common wisdom is "If a thief really wants your scooter, they can find a way to steal it." But making it really damn hard probably helps a lot, because I doubt that most scooter thieves are persistent, resourceful and hard-working.

[Eireann]

Disk locks and grip locks are good at keeping the scoot from rolling, but I've heard stories (scooter urban myth, maybe?) of a scooter being loaded onto skateboards and rolled away and scooters being lifted up into pickup trucks, etc. Most of the actual thefts I've read about, though, have been straight-up hotwiring/destruction of the ignition and steering column lock. The common wisdom is "If a thief really wants your scooter, they can find a way to steal it." But making it really damn hard probably helps a lot, because I doubt that most scooter thieves are persistent, resourceful and hard-working.

Thanks for the advice. I think I just have to accept some level of risk. Fortunately, where I park there are typically several other bikes (mc's and scoots), none of which are locked up, so I have a feeling that anything that makes mine that much tougher to steal is going to help.

[Corsair]

with all the recent talk about security I decided to give this one a bump

[Pita1963]

Can anyone tell me if this would work on a Buddy Int'l Pampona?

http://www.motosport.com/harley/product ... nav=&sMMY=



This looks just bizzare enough that it might make someone think twice....

Robb

[itzhak37]

I live in D.C. and just bought a new Buddy.

I have a giganto OnGuard chain lock, but I'm ultra paranoid about some thief in my neighborhood not having a whole lot to do at 2 a.m. other than trying to steal my scooter. So, I've decided to go ahead and get myself a disc lock to double up on deterrence.

Is it correct what someone said earlier about 10mm being too big? I might just go ahead and get the 5mm in the name of expediency.

[broke]

Is it correct what someone said earlier about 10mm being too big? I might just go ahead and get the 5mm in the name of expediency.

I'm not sure if 10mm is too big, but the Xena disc alarm lock that I bought has a 6mm post and it fits well.

[itzhak37]

I went ahead and got myself the 6mm Xena lock. The alarm is super loud and rather sensitive, I'm very happy with it, it's a good additional extra deterrent against late night thievery. I think that it's a good alternative to a much more expensive installed alarm system.

One worry that I have though, living in D.C., is scooter-jacking. I moved here recently from Minnesota and have been going through the backlogs on the local forums for D.C. scooterists, and it seems like having someone hop on the back of your scoot and stick a gun in your back isn't altogether a rare occurence.

Generic Google searches haven't turned up much. Does anyone here know of products that would either track my Buddy in the event of such a robbery, or remotely immobilize it (like via remote control, or RFID chip in my coat, or GPS tracker inside the scoot)?

Lojacks are pretty costly, around $500 and there's no Lojack dealer/installer in my area. And, comprehensive insurance is $500/yr from my insurance provider. So, I'm looking for alternatives in the $0-499 range.

[Scalpel]

Generic Google searches haven't turned up much. Does anyone here know of products that would either track my Buddy in the event of such a robbery, or remotely immobilize it (like via remote control, or RFID chip in my coat, or GPS tracker inside the scoot)?

I haven't heard of anything, but I like the idea of an RFID system that would kill the ignition 15 seconds after losing contact with the RFID chip in your jacket. That way the robber is not right next to you, angry, and holding a gun when the bike stops.

[itzhak37]

I haven't heard of anything, but I like the idea of an RFID system that would kill the ignition 15 seconds after losing contact with the RFID chip in your jacket. That way the robber is not right next to you, angry, and holding a gun when the bike stops.

That's exactly what I want!

[itzhak37]

Okay, so I committed a bit of time theft while at work. I'm having a hell of a time trying to find a remote kill switch or RFID chip system to disable my scooter in the event of a robbery (where having the chip be in my key would be useless, as the robber would have them already in the ignition).

Though, I did find that a number of cheap and untrustworthy Chinese scooters are offering remote start/kill switch functions as stock parts. I even found one sold separately:

http://www.atvpartsusa.com/itemdetail.a ... mpatiblity

Does anyone have thoughts about products like this, or a more reputable dealer/manufacturer that I can order one from?

It doesn't seem like it should be that complicated, just a remote that transmits to a switch connected to the wire coming from the kill switch on the right handlebar.

[Spinergy]

There are passive transponder based ignition / starter interrupt systems available. The transponder goes on your keyring and the receiver sensor mounts behind the "dash" near the ignition switch. A small brain box gets tucked away somewhere and a relay spliced into the ignition system. When you turn the key the scoot will attempt to start but won't run unless the transponder is close enough to the sensor to close the relay powering the ignition system.

No real alarm, just a stealthy way of slowing down a thief who intends to hotwire and ride off on your scoot. In a car this would wire into the starter circuit, but since scooters have a kickstart that wouldn't really work. Hitch to wiring into the ignition system is that if the system fails it could kill the engine at an inappropriate time.

[psieczko]

I am considering getting a Buddy scooter as a fun ride for errands or going to dinner around the city. I would keep my car for long trips and would likely continue to use the subway for my daily commute.

I have secure underground parking in my condo building. So my Buddy would be secure overnight and when not in use. However I would still be concerned about security on days when it is use. Reading this thread it sounds like there really is no substitute for a heavy duty chain to an stable object like a lamp post. But considering it is illegal to park a 150cc vehicle on the sidewalk that really limits your ability to chain your scooter to objects.

Is the idea that you can park a scooter anywhere really just a romantic myth? In a big city like DC with it's high theft will I actually find it harder to find parking for a scooter than a car? Do people find they can "get away with" parking on the sidewalk if they are only parking for 15-30 minutes and don't obstruct the sidewalk?

[Halloweenie]

Does anyone have a clue what locking systems works best with a Stella? Since I do not have the under seat storage a huge chain is a bit cumbersome...

[laxer]

Does anyone have a clue what locking systems works best with a Stella? Since I do not have the under seat storage a huge chain is a bit cumbersome...

Nah, a huge chain just looks super-cool wrapped around some random part of the scooter as you ride!

[polianarchy]

Halloweenie, I've been asking about this, but nobody knows of a disc lock that will fit the Stella. I've been using my ol' NY Noose chain (see earlier in this thread) and stowing it in the glovebox when I ride. I've seen dudes wrap their chains around a rack or about their body.

[Portland_Rider]

Hi Sudsie,

This is my first post here in a long time as I had a bad scooter accident last fall and have not ridden since September '08. I may have an old post somewhere at this site as I was doing lots of research on lock security issues last August/September.

I own two Gorilla locks and chains and they provide great value. I own the XENA XZN6 Disc Lock Alarm. It was made for the Buddy's design and works better than some similar one made for Vespas.

I'll see if I can dig up the old posts. I'm not sure how much of a challenge that might be.

Portland Rider

[Portland_Rider]

Sudsie and all, here are three combined posts that I made last August on this issue:



Aug 22 2008:
Today, I went to the dealership to consider how to connect a chain/cable lock to the Buddy chassis or wherever. I got down onto my stomach and was looking at the scooter allover and trying to find a secure steel/metal piece that is practical.

It seems like there are a couple of metal parts that can theoretically be used yet they can be removed with a wrench or other tool to then pull away the chain/cable.

A rep, at the dealership, suggested that I wrap a cable/chain underneath and around the body of Buddy (where you place your feet; that area). I'm not thrilled about this idea as it is possible that a thief can loosen up the chain/cable by moving the scooter closer to the physical object it is chained to. A thief can then use the new slack in the chain/cable to maybe lift it off the scooter.


Aug 24, 2008
While others here insist that I don't need to go overboard in securing things in Portland, I'm going to go beyond most people.

From insurance agents and claims reps to scooter dealers to hard-core scooter riders --- all seem to agree that theft here of scooters is focused mostly on those who have older Vespas or other classic models that thieves may target for parts or rarity. Adding on to that, they say that the new Buddy 150 has no demand-market for stolen parts.

There is further some indication that stealing to go joy riding has decreased because of a state law that requires helmet use at all times.

And what is to keep thieves from loading up a truck and driving a bunch of stolen scooters into another state where they don't have to register a 150cc by vin# such as in Oregon?

OK, some folks are too laid back for me here.

For night-time or at times when I'm not taking the scooter with me, my plans are to strongly lock it up. First of all, a cover with my small chain lock will hold it down over my scooter. Then, there will be the disc brake alarm. And then steering column lock.

I like the idea of wrapping a heavy chain around the scooter base (area where you place your feet) and if possible wrapping the chain around a seriously immovable solid object. If there is not enough chain length, I'll then use a noose chain that has a second lock. All together, I'll be getting about 9'6" of chain and two locks. Each chain will be 10mm thick 6-sided and the locks are 13mm thick. Ok, the details are important here about the quality. I'm thinking about using OnGuard Locks. Unfortunately, they do not give out details on their site like 3x heat treated blah blah blah steel. Kyrptonite does a good job explaining their composition. Then again, their marketing people can make any manufacturing process sound good to people who do not know metal molding and lock building.

Some lock reviewers have claimed that they can cut through a 13mm high-quality lock in a matter of minutes, some claim 15-20 minutes. So am I wasting my money getting 13mm OnGuard Locks and 10mm chains? Do I need to buy the 18mm locks and 14mm chains?

Lastly, I might in desperation, wrap a thick long look alike rubber snake around the handle bars to scare off some thief who might be tripping on drugs


Aug 18, 2008
Here is a link to an interesting article in Motorcycle Cruiser called 'Buyers Guide 9 Motorcycle Security Locks':
http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/access ... index.html

Down towards the end of the article are additional links to security lock manufacturers and other related articles within the same publication.

Anti-Theft Strategies for Motorcyclists
12 Ways to Prevent Motorcycle Theft
Kiss it Goodbye
Don't Forget Your Motorcycle's Disc or Wheel Lock
Motorcycle Safety Foundation, "Prevent Motorcycle Theft" (PDF)

I glanced through some of these and they look good.


Hope these help.

Portland Rider

[Lostmycage]

FYI
<a href="viewtopic.php?t=3988&start=200#150880">There's a ModernBuddy forum special on Xena Disc Locks</a>. These get good reviews, and after seeing them in person, I'm putting this higher on the budget priority list than the 180cc kit.

[Scooterboi]

Good article on security issues and suggestions in NY.

http://www.parkingnow.org/home/locking

[weeksk40]

I got the xena alarm disc lock and if someone even moved the bike a little that thing would go off and wake up the neighbors 3 houses over. I do that and chain lock to help deter theft.

[Mulliganal]

I got the xena alarm disc lock and if someone even moved the bike a little that thing would go off and wake up the neighbors 3 houses over. I do that and chain lock to help deter theft.

Since the Xena disc locks don't work on the Stella I'm wondering it the Xena XPL46 locked around the front fork would be sensitive enough to stop someone from moving my Stella?

[ericalm]

I'll be putting a Gorilla alarm in the Stella once I get it back from paint & body. Someday…

[Skootz Kabootz]

I got the xena alarm disc lock and if someone even moved the bike a little that thing would go off and wake up the neighbors 3 houses over. I do that and chain lock to help deter theft.

Since the Xena disc locks don't work on the Stella I'm wondering it the Xena XPL46 locked around the front fork would be sensitive enough to stop someone from moving my Stella?

Why don't Xena's work on a Stella? There are a slew of different models for different disc sizes. Are none right for the Stella?

[ericalm]

I got the xena alarm disc lock and if someone even moved the bike a little that thing would go off and wake up the neighbors 3 houses over. I do that and chain lock to help deter theft.

Since the Xena disc locks don't work on the Stella I'm wondering it the Xena XPL46 locked around the front fork would be sensitive enough to stop someone from moving my Stella?

Why don't Xena's work on a Stella? There are a slew of different models for different disc sizes. Are none right for the Stella?

Because the Stellas are too awesome for them.
That's the best I can come up with.

[Lokky]

according to my dealership the xena locks don't come in a variety large enough to fit the stella disc sadly

[Mulliganal]

according to my dealership the xena locks don't come in a variety large enough to fit the stella disc sadly

Actually, the problem seems to also be that the disc is too close to the rim and the lock won't fit between the two. I talked with the Xena rep and he check a number of them on the 4T and he said none of them worked.

[Mtlgrlie]

Sure.....sometimes when I'm going in fairly quickly, Instead of my Xena crazy sensitive and loud disc lock, I'll use my thick Xena cable and go around her Pamplona forks and put the onguard lock through my BlackJack disc holes. But I think it fits b/c the disc brake holes are huge.

We have 2 loud Xena disc-locks, 2 huge onguard locks, a 5 ft massive onguard noose chain, and a really thick long Xena noose cable.....all attached to very immovable objects in a garage.

oh, and 3 large dogs.

I love my scooters.

[Mulliganal]

Sure.....sometimes when I'm going in fairly quickly, Instead of my Xena crazy sensitive and loud disc lock, I'll use my thick Xena cable and go around her Pamplona forks and put the onguard lock through my BlackJack disc holes. But I think it fits b/c the disc brake holes are huge.

We have 2 loud Xena disc-locks, 2 huge onguard locks, a 5 ft massive onguard noose chain, and a really thick long Xena noose cable.....all attached to very immovable objects in a garage.

oh, and 3 large dogs.

I love my scooters.

Damn, and I thought I was being overprotective. But I bet you sleep well at night knowing your babies are secure.

[Mtlgrlie]

Yep.....not interested in replacing them.

My blackjack wouldn't be easily replaced, and we got such a crazy good deal on our used Pamplona, that it also can't easily be replaced!

Plus, don't forget that all that helps on insurance.....a lot in fact.

I sanded my Xena key down a bit to help with opening them faster. The sharp edge was catching. Now I almost never blow my eardrums out.

[michelle_7728]

I sanded my Xena key down a bit to help with opening them faster. The sharp edge was catching. Now I almost never blow my eardrums out.

Hmmm, I might give that a try too. I rarely have mine do more than the loud chirp they all make, but the trick seems to be to kneel down next to the lock, carefully but firmly hold on to the lock to keep it from moving, then carefully and softly put the key in and softly wiggle it back and forth while trying to (again softly) push it all the way in. Sooner or later you can see it bottom out in the correct position, then you turn it (the key) firmly and quickly to open it.

You may already know this procedure, so it's mainly for new owners of Xenas that I am posting this. Before I figured this procedure out, I did set it off two or three times when trying to take the lock off.

Thankfully the newer Xenas (I have an older one) give a couple of lower decibal beeps before they do the ear piercing ones. My older one isn't that friendly...it screams right away if you goof when taking it off.