Rattler 110cc Review on Motorcycle USA

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:08 am

Not a positive as their recent review of the Black Jack, which they compare it to far more than makes sense. They seem to like that it's a 2-stroke, but have quite a few complaints.

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/715/3707/ ... eview.aspx

A number of Buddy owners commented on the Black Jack review on their site, so if any Rattler owners want to chip in there, please do so!

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:50 pm

Interesting review. I've never ridden a 'rat before, but I didn't think they were as 'gutless' as the review indicated.

Then again, I didn't really like their Blackjack review either. They don't seem to quite understand the scooter world yet, though its cool to see Motorcycle rags actually paying attention to scooters.

laxer · Post by **laxer** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:22 pm

Hey now, don't take away 10cc (well, 6 actually) from my Rattler, it's called the Buck-TEN for a reason, not just the buck.

Edit: Seems that the review is a little harder on the Rat than needs be because they compare the little guy to the Blackjack. C'mon now, these are two very different kinds of scooters.

evilscooterkitty · Post by **evilscooterkitty** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:21 pm

http://www.justgottascoot.com/rattler110.htm

Post by **ericalm** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:43 am

laxer wrote:Edit: Seems that the review is a little harder on the Rat than needs be because they compare the little guy to the Blackjack. C'mon now, these are two very different kinds of scooters.

That was exactly my thought.

laxer · Post by **laxer** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:53 am

Eric, I'm glad we think alike, but you're still disrespecting my Rattler with the title of this thread. You better be careful, he's been known to beat up other scooters and small motorcycles for their lunch money and chocolate milk!

Post by **ericalm** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 2:01 am

laxer wrote:Eric, I'm glad we think alike, but you're still disrespecting my Rattler with the title of this thread. You better be careful, he's been known to beat up other scooters and small motorcycles for their lunch money and chocolate milk!

Oops, typo… Fixed it just for you.

laxer · Post by **laxer** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 2:04 am

My Rattler thanks you, and apologizes for the wedgie he gave your scooter.

Taz · Post by **Taz** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:10 pm

I was seriously considering the Rattler buckten until I rode one. I too thought it was down on power compared to what I thought it should have been. So...I rode another one. Same deal so I decided to pass.

I found it wasn't as fast as my Kymco 125 Agility and maybe just a bit quicker in acceleration. It didn't seem to have the lowend punch of the Buddy. For me it was a big disappointment. Especially since I am a major 2-stroke fan.

That would be an understatement most likely. I used to race a wide variety of 2-strokes in both off-road and road racing. It was almost a slam dunk for me to buy one once I saw they were going to have the buckten I was almost frothing at the mouth to buy one. After the test ride it pretty much killed it for me. I was expecting performance closer to that of a 150-175cc to fourstroke scooters and in reality it seemed to be the slowest that I rode in the 125cc class except for possible the 125 Vino.

To get it to the level of performance I thought it should have from the start would have required at least a pipe. Then it would be much louder and attract too much attention in my area from the police if I was riding it more aggressively.

There are things to like about it of course but the motor was a major let down. I am very familiar with what mods could be done to perk it up but typically they will either sacrifice reliability OR make the scooter noisier for the most part. Since I have a round trip commute of about 45 miles I definitely wouldn't want to sacrifice reliability. Noise is another issue after listening to loud expansion chambers on my street bikes was sometimes tiresome, the drone of a scooter due to the CVT isn't one I can tolerate as easily.

If they'd bump up the stock horsepower so it at least had the punch of a Buddy 150, I'd definitely be more interested. What is the point of putting a 2 stroke motor in it IF it has no real benefit in stock form over a 4 stroke? The real plus for most 2 strokes for me is more HP than a 4 stroke in a given motor size. My seat of the pants impression is a stock Buddy 125 will smoke the buckten in acceleration and top end.

The suspension is better than my Buddy 150 but that isn't saying much. That is a major complaint for me with my Buddy. The stock suspension is far inferior to my much cheaper Kymco 125 especially on the crappy roads here in Minnesnowtah.

I wish it would have lived up more the name Rattler instead of a "garden snake".

Post by **jrsjr** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:32 pm

Interesting... they definitely had expectations which the Rattler did not meet and they slammed it because of that. However, I would like to point out that there was a very astute comment in their article.

Motorcycle USA wrote:...the revvy nature of the 2-stroke meant that useable power was delayed getting from throttle to rear wheel via the CVT drive.

I wonder if a different set of CVT rollers would change the power delivery to suit the weight of their test riders.

Taz · Post by **Taz** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:47 am

It seems like most scooters can benefit from a little tuning of the roller weights to optimize it for your weight/conditions.

Most 2 strokes are "revvy" in that they have less reciprocating mass so they can accelerate the mass of the motor itself more quickly. This is not to be confused with "peaky" where the motor has a very narrow powerband typically in the higher RPM ranges.

My experience was the Rattler was quick to rev but not really that powerful in stock form. So I think it would benefit from a roller weight change like many scoots but it would become a real necessity if you were to mod the motor such as going with a pipe or porting it.

The powerband seemed fairly ride on the ones I rode so it is obvious the motor isn't that highly tuned as it employs no sophisticated exhaust valve mechanisms like Yamaha used a lot. Because of the incredibly mild state of tune, you get a very mid pack to bottom end performer in the 125 class. I meant to ask Dave from Justgottascoot when I saw him today.

While his reviews are a starting point for some, they seem to be filled with a lot of fluff. He tries careful to not really say anything negative about any scoot he tests. Reminds me a few motorcycle magazines in the 80's who didn't dare say anything bad about Honda or they'd pull their advertising from the mags. That is sort of how I see the relationship between Dave and the folks who often give him a scooter to test; Scooterville.

Since I have no affiliation with any company now I can call it as I see it. As I see it the Rattler is so detuned to make it less intimidating for a neophyte and in the end they ended up with a pretty weak 2 stroke motor that seems slower than any of the stock Buddy 125's I rode. Then if you tune it to unlock some of its potential, you void the warranty. To some that might not matter to others its a big deal.

nissanman · Post by **nissanman** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 2:10 am

I haven't met a stock 2 stroke yet... nor do I want to

The Rattler is very de-tuned, fun ride in stock trim but you need to release the power to have some real fun. Even before big bore kits the Rattler responds well to CVT tuning, jetting, intake, intake manifold, exhaust, reeds... all the things that got corked by CA regulations... take the BuckTen for what it is, a hooligan that needs some parole to do what it wants to.

RuralRattler · Post by **RuralRattler** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:13 pm

Did you guys read the comments that were left with this article. Some guy named bill said genuine was a wanabe vespa who is struggling with quality issues and is no better that a chinese scoot..... wow

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:37 pm

RuralRattler wrote:Did you guys read the comments that were left with this article. Some guy named bill said genuine was a wanabe vespa who is struggling with quality issues and is no better that a chinese scoot..... wow

Heh, because the Rattler looks OHH so much like a Vespa.... There's one in every bunch,,,

ScooterNews · Post by **ScooterNews** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:45 pm

I think the main problem with this review is that it is a motorcycle rag reviewing a scooter. While its cool to see scooters getting more publicity, the motorcycle guys just aren't quite going to get it as much as a die-hard scooterists. I would guess that legroom is a complaint on just about all the scooters they test. It would be like "Muscle Car Magazine" reviewing the latest Honda Civic.

goatlover · Post by **goatlover** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:00 pm

i have owned the rattler and now a zuma 125.

hands down the zuma 125 is a better bike.

the rattler is not there for what it is supposed to be. i also owned a zuma 50cc bored it out to 70cc and did the normal bells and whistles...

the zuma 50 flew by the rattler any day of the week. my rattler was piped, malossi var, and had the dr pulley clutch.

the zuma 70cc always beat it.

i agree with the review. if your gonna get a bike stick with the buddy. its a better bike.

laxer · Post by **laxer** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:19 am

The Rattler has a ton of untapped potential, you just gotta know how to find it. If you don't want a Rattler, don't get one, but I'll take my Ratt every time over a buddy, and I'll have fun doing it. It's a gutty little machine that I beat the hell out of (jumping and wheelying at WOT) and it just keeps kickin'. Throw a V8 pipe on there and you're off to the races.

nissanman · Post by **nissanman** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:01 am

A pipe, variator and clutch are all nice... but what did you do about getting more air and fuel in the carb? Can't make more power without those. You had mods that would concentrate the powerband (tuned pipe) and aid in better response for what you had (variator and clutch), but did nothing to add power. It is easier to make a faster Zuma, lots more parts out there. Part of owning a 110 is knowing the parts are being developed and it's true potential hasn't been realized yet. As for the review, it would be unrealistic to expect a Bike Magazine to "imagine" the performance possibilities based on parts that don't exist yet. Stock vs stock is all they are looking at.

Taz · Post by **Taz** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:49 am

Problem is it starts way down on top speed vs a Buddy 125 or 150. I agree there is untapped potential and in general it is easier to unlock it than a 4 stroke and cheaper for the most part.

I would have considered one more carefully IF it wasn't down a solid 10 mph to start with vs the Buddy 150 I rode. That is a huge gap to overcome just to have parity. And to achieve that parity without making it super noisy (ala expansion chamber) makes it even more of a challenge.

I have built some incredibly fast 2-strokes. One thing they all had in common (unfortunately) was fairly (or very) noise expansion chambers exhausts. My RG500 and RZ500 both would run mid 10 sec 1/4 miles and that was a heck of an accomplishment since they were so wheelie prone. However the cops could hear them miles away whenever I took them out on the street.

There are a few fast (for a 50) Roughhouses in my area. They are all annoyingly loud and sound like they are doing 100 mph according to the sound of their exhaust when doing a whopping 45-50 mph. I personally like to ride a bit faster than posted limits so I prefer to attract less attention rather than more, from the local law enforcement.

I would have preferred they started out with a 125cc or 150cc 2-stroke to have a better platform for modding. I agree it has potential but it starts at a huge deficit compared to its siblings. Even 5 mph is significant.

On a slightly different note. Magazines really only have time to compare stock vs stock. There are so many different types of mods you could do that you can't compare them consistently otherwise. If Genuine decided to make the Rattler sort of dog in stock form, then that is what it is. They called it like they see it. I personally felt it should have had more punch than it did out of the box.

I am an avid motorcycle rider but I can still appreciate scooters as well as bikes of all size and styles. I think most testers are not so jaded as you might think.

I hope that soon we'll see more products developed for the Rattler. If they make some really cool high performance parts for it and can keep it reasonably quiet, then I'll likely find room for one in my garage. You can't ever have too many scooters or motorcycles. Just ask Jay Leno!

Major Redneck · Post by **Major Redneck** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:24 am

After 2500 miles on my somewhat un-loud Rattler, im seeing LOUD PIPES SAVES LIVES...

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:25 pm

Major Redneck wrote:After 2500 miles on my somewhat un-loud Rattler, im seeing LOUD PIPES SAVES LIVES...

Like I always say to the Harley guys... If loud pipes save lives, imagine what actually learning to ride that thing could do....

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:31 pm

Kaos wrote:
Major Redneck wrote:After 2500 miles on my somewhat un-loud Rattler, im seeing LOUD PIPES SAVES LIVES...
Like I always say to the Harley guys... If loud pipes save lives, imagine what actually learning to ride that thing could do....

That was awesome!

I love the idea of a loud arse pipe on my little Italia but its more because I get a kick out of making my little baby put up the tough front

So far I've switched out the creme panels for black ones, I got a black floor mat and added some chrome and black grips that look like they belong on a big bike not a scooter. A loud pipe is a logical next acsessory or maybe a set of small black bull horns mounted on the front!

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:40 pm

jasondavis48108 wrote:
Kaos wrote:
Major Redneck wrote:After 2500 miles on my somewhat un-loud Rattler, im seeing LOUD PIPES SAVES LIVES...
Like I always say to the Harley guys... If loud pipes save lives, imagine what actually learning to ride that thing could do....
That was awesome!

I love the idea of a loud arse pipe on my little Italia but its more because I get a kick out of making my little baby put up the tough front So far I've switched out the creme panels for black ones, I got a black floor mat and added some chrome and black grips that look like they belong on a big bike not a scooter. A loud pipe is a logical next acsessory or maybe a set of small black bull horns mounted on the front!

Heh, I actually like loud pipes too, but not strait open pipes like a lot of Harleys. Plus its fun to say to the big bad Harley guys who look down on scooters.

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:57 pm

Kaos wrote:
jasondavis48108 wrote:
Kaos wrote: Like I always say to the Harley guys... If loud pipes save lives, imagine what actually learning to ride that thing could do....
That was awesome!

I love the idea of a loud arse pipe on my little Italia but its more because I get a kick out of making my little baby put up the tough front So far I've switched out the creme panels for black ones, I got a black floor mat and added some chrome and black grips that look like they belong on a big bike not a scooter. A loud pipe is a logical next acsessory or maybe a set of small black bull horns mounted on the front!
Heh, I actually like loud pipes too, but not strait open pipes like a lot of Harleys. Plus its fun to say to the big bad Harley guys who look down on scooters.

I'm sure it is I have alot of harley guys (straight off the ford line) in my family and I love to ask them when thier gonna trade in thier clunker for a real bike like a Honda

Usually gets quite a rise out of them, probably alot more fun on a voodoo buddy so you can get away from them when ya piss'em off, not sure if I'd try it on my 50