gas can in the pet carrier

robtaylor · Post by **robtaylor** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:18 pm

i am wanting to figure out how to carry extra fuel when going long distances, i have researched all of the possible motorcycle or scooter aftermarket tanks and they are all incredibly expensive.

Can you put a plastic one gallon gas "can" in the pet carrier or would it be a recipe for explosion?

i know the pet carrier can get extremely hot, but the reason i'm thinking it might work is because the buddy's gas tank is situated in the same spot and and must recieve approx the same amount of heat and it doesn't burst into flames. but i'm a little leary of trial and error on this one.

Piedmont · Post by **Piedmont** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:23 pm

Personally I would go with a Sigg Fuel Bottle attached to the back. It won't hold much, but you likely won't need much.

EP_scoot · Post by **EP_scoot** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:25 pm

Oh yeah, sure, you try it and let us know, would ya?

Seriously, I would not even think about it. Strap it to the rear rack or the foot well for transport.

robtaylor · Post by **robtaylor** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:28 pm

the autoignition temperature for gasoline is around 475degrees in theory it should work but...like i said i am weary to try it myself

robtaylor · Post by **robtaylor** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:31 pm

Piedmont wrote:Personally I would go with a Sigg Fuel Bottle attached to the back. It won't hold much, but you likely won't need much.

i think i'm gonna need at least a gallon

healingpath · Post by **healingpath** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:17 pm

Another method is to put a one gallon red plastic gas can inside a saddlebag.
This can is quite small, and will fit well in many saddlebags. You don't want to fill the can all the way though (probably no more than 3/4) so as to allow for heat expansion.

That much gas will carry you quite a ways - maybe 70 miles? - should you run out.

Matthew

sotied · Post by **sotied** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:19 pm

A gallon??

Aren't some of the Coleman fuel canisters good for carrying any type of fuel? That would be one of my first choices. You can probably get a half-gallon canister at REI or EMS or other camping store.

Eazy · Post by **Eazy** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:41 pm

Just make sure you take your kitty out first.

(k+g) * p=:(

p=pet carrier
k=kitty
g=gas

heavypetting · Post by **heavypetting** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:39 am

I vote no! I couldn't even get a quart of milk home from the store in there without it warming it to yuckiness. Small container of cumbustible fuel, nahh.

Post by **jrsjr** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:05 am

Hey Rob, you don't want to do that. Those plastic cans all leak. If you put one in a bag with your gear, all your gear will end up stinking like gas. If you put it in the pet carrier, your scooter will smell like it's about to blow up. Either carry a can as separately as you can outside your stuff, or get one of those pupose-made external tanks.

Post by **illnoise** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:09 am

Yep, I wouldn't put a plastic gas can in there, go for the sigg/MSR fuel bottle, I've done that lots and it works great, and it's plenty of fuel to get you to a gas station. For the cannonball, take 2 or 3. If that's not enough, bungee the plastic gas can outside somewhere, because it's gonna leak.

Eazy · Post by **Eazy** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:17 am

I <3 my reserve tank

robtaylor · Post by **robtaylor** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:03 pm

do you think you could put the msr/sigg fuel canisters in the pet carrier?

pugbuddy · Post by **pugbuddy** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 8:54 pm

go for the sigg/MSR fuel bottle, I've done that lots and it works great, and it's plenty of fuel to get you to a gas station.

So you would consider it safe to store unleaded fuel in the seat compartment in a sigg/MSR fuel bottle?

armacham · Post by **armacham** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 9:39 pm

pugbuddy wrote:
So you would consider it safe to store unleaded fuel in the seat compartment in a sigg/MSR fuel bottle?

I have an MSR 1 litre. As long as the o-ring hasn't deteriorated you should be fine. Just check it every week or so to make sure that it doesn't leak. Be sure not to over fill it!. There is a max fill line that leaves enough room for expansion

sbebenelli · Post by **sbebenelli** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 9:58 pm

Everyone is venting their gas fumes in the pet carrier after they drill holes in the gas cap to fix the vapor lock problem. So explain why it would be unsafe to carry fuel in there?

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:18 pm

Here is another alternative for a small, leak free fuel canister. I would not put it in the pet carrier, however. I think a topcase or saddlebag are better choices for 1 or 2 of these.

http://www.cyclefuel.com/

rickko · Post by **rickko** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:26 am

Do it! Like you said, your gas tank is right next to it and as someone else said, you'll have to get the temperature pretty darn high before it'll explode. So high that you wouldn't be able to sit on your seat.

If you are worried you could buy some heat shielding material and put it on the bottom of the pet carrier.

Here's another idea. get a thermometer and lay it on the bottom of the pet carrier and see what temp it gets up too. Maybe use an oven or food thermometer. That'll certainly relieve your fear of blowing up.

Personally, I like the idea.

Let us know if you put a thermometer in there to test it. I'm curious.
..rickko..

un_designer · Post by **un_designer** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:49 am

Maybe there's a cannister that's designed for holding fuel, that's the same size as those 16oz propane tank that you use for small bar-b-que grills. Those cannisters fit perfectly in the left side storage area underneath the steering wheel.

pugbuddy · Post by **pugbuddy** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:57 am

Here is another alternative for a small, leak free fuel canister. I would not put it in the pet carrier, however. I think a topcase or saddlebag are better choices for 1 or 2 of these.

I bought a MSR fuel cannister today for $15 at Backwoods. It's 33 oz (a little over .25 gallons) and shouldn't leak. I haven't decided if I'll carry it in the Prima bag or under the seat. I'm leaning toward the latter.

un_designer · Post by **un_designer** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:59 am

how tall are those things? from the picture, it looks like it might just fit in the left hand side storage area underneath the handlebar.

pugbuddy · Post by **pugbuddy** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:03 am

I don't have an exact measurement but it's too tall to stand up under the seat. It's out in the garage so I don't have it handy right now to check.

EDIT: Had to make an evening scoot to the store so I grabbed the cannister on the way back in!

It's 11 1/2 inches tall.

jperkins · Post by **jperkins** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:12 am

robonz23 you need to post pics of your external gas tank....only buddy i know of that can hold 4 gallons of gas!!!

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:48 pm

rickko wrote: Here's another idea. get a thermometer and lay it on the bottom of the pet carrier and see what temp it gets up too. Maybe use an oven or food thermometer. That'll certainly relieve your fear of blowing up.

I can't imagine that there is any danger of explosion, or any more danger of fire than with the main fuel tank. The possible issue in the pet carrier is leakage, especially after the small container warms up a bit and the fuel expands.

Cheshire · Post by **Cheshire** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:08 pm

I'm gonna chime in here, being a fire spinner and certified pyro.
DON'T go for the plastic gas cans. Yeah, the plastic is rated for gasoline, but that just means you don't have to worry about the petrol eating through the container.

Go for something that's rated for the pressure. That's where the MSR fuel bottles and the like come in. Just make sure your preferred container is rated for UNLEADED GASOLINE as well...the different fuels behave differently, and so some containers are rated for some but not others. (white gas vs kerosene vs gasoline vs diesel vs lamp oil vs alcohol vs aviation fuel).

The gas tank is designed to deal with the pressures of expansion, so don't base your storage location on what the gas tank can take. It's reinforced to be safe in sunlight where most portable containers aren't.

Gasoline is the most volatile of the fuels I'm familiar with (haven't played with diesel enough yet, and aviation fuel at all). The stuff is unpredictable at best when it comes to flashpoint: sure, the LIQUID has a semi-high flashpoint, but the FUMES are what'll blow you. The fumes are exponentially more volatile than the liquid. I've known a container of gas to go up from a flame source over 10 feet away from a guy lighting a cigarette...not fun.

Not trying to scare ya (too bad), just prefer informed to crispy.

siobhan · Post by **siobhan** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:36 pm

Ohhhhh, I'm supposed to put in a CONTAINER. Oh, ok, next time I'll try that. I just pumped an extra gallon into the pet carrier.

olhogrider · Post by **olhogrider** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 4:10 am

After a few close calls on my cross country trip, I bought an MSR 1 liter bottle. I carried in the pack I had strapped to the back seat. I didn't come close to using it once I had it. If I had brought my rain suit it wouldn't have rained either.

bfreed · Post by **bfreed** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:37 am

+1 to backpacking fuel bottles MSR, Optimus, et.al.

I got 2 bottles, each holds 0.2 gallons when filled to the fill line (*always* respect the fill line), so 1 bottle ~18 miles. 2 bottles ~36 miles. I've never been >36 miles from a gas station to my knowledge.

I hit 1400 miles this morning, all of them with gas under the seat. No explosions thus far.

Do be aware that Sigg makes different kinds of bottles - I've seen fuel-rated bottles, and also a version that's a water drinking bottle. You want the former, not the latter.

robtaylor · Post by **robtaylor** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:49 pm

i'm gong to pick up the scoot today and i'll post pics of my gas tank.

my question to people using msr bottles or the like is how the heck do you fill it up at the pump? i can see filling it from a gas can to make it easier but that doesn't help much when you're on the road. it might be great to carry for emergencies but not for ongoing fill ups.

Tysonviolin · Post by **Tysonviolin** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:49 pm

robonz23 wrote:the autoignition temperature for gasoline is around 475degrees in theory it should work but...like i said i am weary to try it myself

*Wary

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 4:29 pm

siobhan wrote:Ohhhhh, I'm supposed to put in a CONTAINER. Oh, ok, next time I'll try that. I just pumped an extra gallon into the pet carrier.

How did you plan on getting it into the tank then? Didn't think it through that far?

robtaylor · Post by **robtaylor** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:07 pm

Cheshire · Post by **Cheshire** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:45 pm

Dumb question, robonz23: Do you have to fill both the reserve tank AND the main tank when filling up, or does the tour tank fill the main tank?

robtaylor · Post by **robtaylor** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:50 pm

Cheshire wrote:Dumb question, robonz23: Do you have to fill both the reserve tank AND the main tank when filling up, or does the tour tank fill the main tank?

not a dumb question. to get 3 gallons+ i need to fill both tanks. we did test it just filling up the auxiliary tank to make sure it was flowing fast enough but that only gives me two gallons.

Alix B · Post by **Alix B** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:52 am

I carried a MSR bottle with me and found that when I ran out of gas, what was in there never could get me to another gas station. Well, in all fairness, ONCE it would have, but I didn't have the damn thing then.

Anyhow, Shaun that rode with me awhile wound up getting a 1gallon spare can and he rode home with it under his seat.

This created many arguements between us, but he insisted it would be fine.
And he lived to tell me he was right.
Was it luck?
I dunno. But, he rode through the deserts, from LA to Tucson, in the summer, with that thing under his damn seat.

I speculate it would be more dangerous if it WASN'T full. That would create more dangerous vapors. Whereas if you keep it full, it'a just a liquid that requires a massive transformation in temperature to explode.

Personally, I didn't like fretting about it.

7eregrine · Post by **7eregrine** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:06 am

Gas explodes at a minimum 450 degrees. Not even a lit cigarette will ignite gasoline (see Mythbusters). All those movies where they trail the gas out and throw a cig on it? Impossible. You might get it to light if you are sucking on the cig and stick it in the gas.

As for venting into the pet carrier from the gas caps, I seriously doubt much vapor, if any, collects inside the pet carrier.

Apiarist · Post by **Apiarist** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:15 am

it may not get hot enough under the seat to ignite the vapor, but what if it gets hot enough to melt the plastic container? is a rhetorical question mostly.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:52 am

Apiarist wrote:it may not get hot enough under the seat to ignite the vapor, but what if it gets hot enough to melt the plastic container? is a rhetorical question mostly.

Actually there is an interesting thread on MV right now where a couple folks measured this with Vespa LX150s. The highest temperature they measured was in the 120s I believe. Many of us carry plastic items in the pet carrier. I have never heard of anyone melting anything except ice cubes.

Cheshire · Post by **Cheshire** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:46 pm

7eregrine wrote:Gas explodes at a minimum 450 degrees. Not even a lit cigarette will ignite gasoline (see Mythbusters). All those movies where they trail the gas out and throw a cig on it? Impossible. You might get it to light if you are sucking on the cig and stick it in the gas.

As for venting into the pet carrier from the gas caps, I seriously doubt much vapor, if any, collects inside the pet carrier.

This is true for the liquid, not the fumes.
Like I said, the fumes are what you have to watch out for.

I agree (tentatively) about the vented gas cap. Tentatively b/c I don't have 1st hand experience with that yet. A plastic container of gas, on the other hand...that WILL give you fume buildup.

Cheshire · Post by **Cheshire** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:47 pm

Dooglas: good idea! Anyone willing to put a thermometer in their pet carrier?

UrbanBuddy82 · Post by **UrbanBuddy82** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:00 pm

I DID!

Put a cooking thermometer in the pet carier thismorning for the ride to work, but alas, I forgot to read the damn thing.....

I will get a good reading this afternoon on my way home!

will let you know.

Cheshire · Post by **Cheshire** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:11 pm

Do you park in the sun or the shade?
If you park in the sun, check before you leave...might be good info to have as well for the experiment.

7eregrine · Post by **7eregrine** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:14 pm

Apiarist wrote:it may not get hot enough under the seat to ignite the vapor, but what if it gets hot enough to melt the plastic container? is a rhetorical question mostly.

I am not suggesting a plastic carrier, but:

Plastic's melting point is roughly 250-350 degrees.

UrbanBuddy82 · Post by **UrbanBuddy82** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:23 pm

I had thought about that because I do park in the sun. I will check the temp before I start up the scoot and then check it again after I shut it off once I get home..

Cheshire · Post by **Cheshire** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:35 pm

7eregrine wrote:
Apiarist wrote:it may not get hot enough under the seat to ignite the vapor, but what if it gets hot enough to melt the plastic container? is a rhetorical question mostly.
I am not suggesting a plastic carrier, but:

Plastic's melting point is roughly 250-350 degrees.

So why is it that most plastics will melt in the dishwasher? Water boils at 212F, and I'm pretty sure dishwashers don't spray superheated water vapor. (Do they?)

7eregrine · Post by **7eregrine** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:53 pm

Hmmmm. Good point! They can get hot enough to bend...

I guess my Google-fu powers are off today.

UrbanBuddy82 · Post by **UrbanBuddy82** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:47 pm

Plastic melting in the dishwasher: The water isn't what melts the plastic, it is the heating element in the botom of most dishwashers that is used to heat the air inside to dry the dishes....

OK....Temperature readings inside the pet carrier:

Inside after sitting in the sun all day in 93 degree Texas weather: 100 degrees exactly.

Inside after the 8.6 mile ride home: 156 degrees.

That is in the pet carier with nothing else. the actual thermometer element was taped to the bottom of the carrier so the temperature of the bottom of the compartment may be a bit higher than the ambient temp in the compartment.

Cheshire · Post by **Cheshire** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:49 pm

That's about opposite what I was expecting. Thanks for the readings!

Apiarist · Post by **Apiarist** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:04 pm

i think it is clear to most never to wash a plastic gasoline can in your pet carrier's washing machine. seriously though, interesting stuff!

7eregrine · Post by **7eregrine** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:06 pm

Also keep in mind I am pretty sure you still need a spark to ignite gasoline vapors. It won't ignite simply from atomspheric temprature.

Modern Buddy

gas can in the pet carrier

gas can in the pet carrier

pictures