My NEW buddy drips fuel

[apierce]

I just bought the bd125 and it drips fuel. Is this normal? The dealer said when it is filled too full, which it wasn't, when it's hot the gas will expand and come out of the vent. Is this true? His answer was don't fill it up as much and I thought that was rediculous. A new buddy dripping fuel...it makes me mad and makes a mess all over my driveway. Does anybody have any suggestions????

[jfrost2]

Very common in a new 2008 bike. Nothing to worry about. It also happens when you fill too much, too much pressure created from expanding gas and such, it forces out from a tube. It's supposed to, nothing to worry about.

You might also want to consider drilling a 1/16th inch hole or two in the gas cap to let out extra pressure. Sometimes filling too much by accident, the pressure forces the gas into the carb, and vapor lock occurs, the engine stalls for a moment or shuts off completely. Just make sure you keep the gas 1-2 inches from the neck. You cant shove the nozzle down fully like a car would, you gotta eye ball measure the amount you put in.

[Glen G]

I'm with you! I'm not real happy as I just gave dealer $3000 cash. No response from Genuine yet. I see some posts about drilling cap,but thats dealers problem, not ours. This is a fire hazard and serious. It's not gonna wish it's self away. I'll give Genuine a week to get it resolved. Dealer says "bring it in", but is a real pain in the U know what to get it there, find a ride, etc. I think you need to just keep posting until someone does something about it. They seem nice enough so I'm sure they will take care of us.

[pugbuddy]

The local mechanic at Tulsa Scooters said that a fuel drip (dripping to the right side of the Buddy from underneath the seat area) was due to a poorly designed something-or-other inside the fuel tank that doesn't stop the flow of gas properly. I'm not very technically inclined but I can say that his explanation made sense (he was explaining it to a woman before we went out on a ride).

He also said it was easy for him to fix it and that it is covered by warranty. In fact, he said they usually fix them at the store now before they sell the new Buddys. I'd check with another mechanic if yours won't fix it. There's no good reason your Bud should be dripping fuel (although if it drops on a hot pipe, you may get that cool "Batmobile" flame-on!).

[jfrost2]

In simple terms, the buddy now uses a metal gas tank. People like forcing as much gas into the tank as they can, they think it makes them go longer. The old buddies used plastic tanks which would expand along with the expansion of gas pressure. Metal doesnt, so the pressure forces the gas somewhere. Out onto the ground on the right of your parked bike.

[Dooglas]

I'm with you! I'm not real happy as I just gave dealer $3000 cash. No response from Genuine yet. I see some posts about drilling cap,but thats dealers problem, not ours. This is a fire hazard and serious. It's not gonna wish it's self away. I'll give Genuine a week to get it resolved. Dealer says "bring it in", but is a real pain in the U know what to get it there, find a ride, etc. I think you need to just keep posting until someone does something about it. They seem nice enough so I'm sure they will take care of us.

Hmm, this venting issue is a known problem that you have read about on this site. I understand Genuine has already instructed dealers of the appropriate fix and dealers are doing so under warranty. Your dealer has told you to come in to get it fixed. You don't want to do that. Are you hoping for divine intervention?

[apierce]

Thanks for the info. You guys are a big help! I'll just keep the fuel level lower. Will it help if I use regular instead of premium fuel?

[OKBubbles]

I'm with you! I'm not real happy as I just gave dealer $3000 cash. No response from Genuine yet. I see some posts about drilling cap,but thats dealers problem, not ours. This is a fire hazard and serious. It's not gonna wish it's self away. I'll give Genuine a week to get it resolved. Dealer says "bring it in", but is a real pain in the U know what to get it there, find a ride, etc. I think you need to just keep posting until someone does something about it. They seem nice enough so I'm sure they will take care of us.

Hmm, this venting issue is a known problem that you have read about on this site. I understand Genuine has already instructed dealers of the appropriate fix and dealers are doing so under warranty. Your dealer has told you to come in to get it fixed. You don't want to do that. Are you hoping for divine intervention?

I took mine in, the mechanic had it fixed in about 15 minutes, and I was on my way with no charge. Genuine knows the problem, they've given the info to their dealers, and it's being fixed on the spot.

[jfrost2]

Until someone fixes the problem? It isnt going to drill itself...

I dont think it's worth the hassle taking to the dealer for them to fix it in 5 minutes when you probably own a drill and a 1/16th inch bit.

Thanks for the info. You guys are a big help! I'll just keep the fuel level lower. Will it help if I use regular instead of premium fuel?

Everyone debates about this, but the majority use regular grade 87 fuel in their scooters unless it specifies for premium. I run regular in my bike all the time, and I ran a tank of premium once, no difference in gas mileage, power, or anything. If it says run regular, put that in there

[Glen G]

Actually, have been to dealer once. They want me to bring it in again. So I'll do it. They knew what the problem was. I asked them what Genuine said the fix was. Seems they have not gotten an official bulletin / Fix. They tried to drain the charcoal filter but did not work. Look, unless I was an engineer for the company, I'm not gonna guess how to or try to fix it. I don't think leaking Gas is not something to mess with, maybe you're more comfortable with it. Sounds like I offended you,sure did not mean to do that.
Love,
Glen

[Orange Guy]

Glen G, it might to help to understand that a LOT of the folks on here love taking their Buds apart and tinkering with stuff. It almost seems like it's part of owning a Buddy. An expectation, even. Your declaration of it being a dealer problem (while likely true) probably took a few by surprise as it is a very simple fix.


There is an entire thread (or three) devoted to fixing this issue. I stalled, sputtered, stalled and coasted my way home ... Then read the thread, headed to garage and fired up the drill. A couple small holes in the gas cap and my Bud is scootin' like new again. I'd rather spend 45 seconds with a drill in my hands than an hour one way to my dealer.

[BuddyLove]

there is another problem that can be fixed by putting a ball bearing in a tube. Not sure what tube, but our service guys talked to Genuine about it as it happened to someone's new 150. I suggest asking the dealer about it. Drilling a hole in the cap didn't fix the problem in this case.

[Glen G]

Well Said. That's great. I'm just not a big risk taker with gas,so go easy on me.. You're saying I won't void the warranty, cool, thanks! That was my only worry. Take care. G

[5 bud7]

The only thing you do when you drill the gass cap is to disable the smog system that allows them to sell scooters in all states. Any vehicle that drips gas or stalls under acceleration is a dangerous vehicle and should be off the road. THE FIX IS AN ENGINEERING PROBLEM, AND SHOULD BE LEFT TO THEM. The people in this forum are trying to be overly helpful and may end up in a huge lawsuit for there troubles/ NOTIFY GENIUNE YOU ARE HAVING A PROBLEM AND DEMAND A PERMANENT FIX BE IMPLEMENTED IMMIATELY.

[Glen G]

Please don't mistake my Love of my Seafoam Green Buddy as hate. It'sonly frustration. I've been laughted at the coffee machine, Razzed on by my boss, Had "Princess Parking" posted on my office door, and all the engineers in meeting telling me ,"maybe we should make our next product looking like Glen's Scooter". But, I drive in to work every day, head held high.

I'm only passionate, because of Love for my Buddy and want to make the scooter world safe for humanity. Thank you, and Good night!

Love,
Glen

Plus, I've had more chicks hit on me since I got the damn thing, and I'm not that good lookin'!

[runtotorun121]

I am intrigued about something. I have an '07, and over the last few weeks of reading threads I am feeling very happy with my '07 and actually kind of glad I do not have an '08 and some of the new issues that seem to be occurring with them. I guess I am curious about the attitude that some people can either drill some holes or take their Buddy into the shop and have the dealer drill some holes since this is Genuine's "fix." Can someone tell me if the reasons underlying this general consensus is because that is just how it is if you buy a $3000 scooter as opposed to a car?

Because maybe I am the only one who feels this way, but I would be none too happy with Genuine if they expected me to accept that the "fix" is to rig something that will let it work. I am supposing there may be an "Oh S%*&" factor when Genuine realized that something wasn't working quite right, but it is curious to me that they don't do some sort of recall or provide free replacement tanks, caps, or whatever makes the problem "right." Something wasn't designed quite right, and I am pretty dang sure that the '09s will not be coming out with the same problem. Would you go to the Honda, Ford, etc. dealer with gas leaking out of your tank and be okay with drilling holes to address a symptom rather than addressing the underlying cause? I would not intend to buy a brand new vehicle and then have to drill, nail, staple, baling wire, chewing gum, or any other sort of "fix." I mean, come on. Something is faulty. I don't know why I feel so frustrated by this since I don't even own an '08, but I don't get it (Well, unfortunately, I think I do. . .$). Of course, maybe this is the way MC and scooter companies work. Is that the case?

Oh, and while I am capable of doing my own home maintenance, working on my own car, scooter, etc. I certainly do not feel like I should be expected to perform this mod on my scooter in order to be in the "in crowd" of "real" scooterists. My minimal desire to work on my scooter does not define my commitment to my Buddy or scooter culture anymore than my minimal desire to butcher my own meat defines me as a vegetarian. I have lots of other things going on in my life, and if I wanted to regularly devote my time to tinkering around with mechanics I would have bought an old Vespa or something.

Ooops. I sounded a wee bit grumpy. Not meaning to be snitty at anyone.

[Orange Guy]

You're saying I won't void the warranty, cool, thanks! That was my only worry.

I think early on, there was some concern about warranty issues (was there?), but now it seems this is the fix some dealers are doing.

Correct me if I'm wrong guys/gals.

[Glen G]

You're a shape person. As a OEM product manager, I know my company does not let Gas issues go unchecked. However, I still want to check with Dealer this week to find out if there is an official fix. However, fixes do cost Money, so I understand them being carful. On the other hand, places like this forum are a good way for manufactures to know what people are thinking (but must separate the wheat for the chaff). Yes, I expect it to work.It's for my wife. And I worry about her safety. Cheers!

[Glen G]

A Dealer Fix is different from a FACTORY Authorized Service Bulletin. Anyway, I got my point across. Nice to see soo many Buddy people with good information!!

[runtotorun121]

However, fixes do cost Money, so I understand them being carful.

Unfortunately, manufacturing something that is faulty does cost money. In my opinion, that is one component of doing business.

[Glen G]

However, fixes do cost Money, so I understand them being carful.

Unfortunately, manufacturing something that is faulty does cost money. In my opinion, that is one component of doing business.

You go Girl!! You're right. Dealing with gas power emission issues all day long I'd guess this to be a $15 fix with about 15 minutes of dealer labor. Mark my words. Think I'm in the ball park?

[runtotorun121]

Well, like I said, I have been fortunate and haven't had to deal with this on my Buddy, but others here will certainly have the scoop for you. From other posts it seems like maybe Genuine has instructed their dealers to do this "fix", so I don't know if that makes it factory authorized or not, but from my understanding it is not a dealer by dealer decision. Could be wrong on that, though, but that's what I recall.

Also, people who have had their dealers do the fix rather than whipping out their power tools at home can speak to the cost, but I would sure as heck think that with it being a warranty type issue that I would be stomping up and down if they tried to charge me for labor. I think they might not. Hmmm. . .even when my Civic seatbelt latch starting being all fritzy the dealer said the part and labor was no cost to me because of the safety issue.

And my experience with drilling is that if you did have to pay for the labor it sure as heck shouldn't take more than that long, and that is with coffee and potty breaks. I think there is a thread here where someone even said it took them just a few minutes to do it themselves.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes!

[illnoise]

Of course, maybe this is the way MC and scooter companies work. Is that the case?

Yes.

Sadly, with (I'm guessing) ten or fifteen full-time employees trying to keep up with a totally unprecedented rush on scooters, Genuine isn't quite as efficient as General Motors.

Be glad you didn't pay $6000 for a Vespa, they do the exact same thing when you overfill the tank.

And be glad that your scooter doesn't have REAL safety issues, like fake "ABS" brakes that don't work, or a cylinder made of porcelain, or tires made out of the same rubber they use for Hot Wheels car tires, or forged DOT/EPA approval, like a lot of the scooters on the market right now. You bought one of the best scooters available in the U.S., sold by America's most accountable and dedicated importer via a solid network of good, honest dealers.

The problem here isn't a design flaw, the problem appears to be that people are overfilling their tanks. I can't find my Blur manual, but I'm pretty sure it clearly describes how to fill the tank and states that overfilling the tank will cause problems. Most dealers explain that on delivery, too. Mine did.

It seems the new tank design may accentuate the issue, but again, it seems the problem still comes down to overfilling the tank.

Call your dealer and ask for their expert advice rather than freaking out here. I find it hard to believe that Genuine is encouraging dealers to bypass the emissions control system, it's more likely that dealers have started drilling holes to prevent customers from complaining when they overfill their tanks. We (the moderators) have asked Genuine for the official line, we hope to hear back soon, but in the meantime, don't panic and overreact.

This reminds me of the "bad stator" thread where everyone on the list was convinced that their stator was going bad. It turned out to be far less than an epidemic.

Bb.

[runtotorun121]

MY STARTER IS GOING BAD???

Did you see the post I thought I saw, or did I hallucinate it that I thought someone reported Genuine "instructed" dealers to do the hole-drilling thingy? Hmmm. . .of course, this could be becoming a game of "Telephone"

If it is just an overfill issue what keeps autos from doing this too? Or do we just not notice? I think I posted this somewhere else, and I don't know if you saw it, but my husband was saying that there is venting (or something like that - I may be paraphrasing from my old memory) in some gas caps that prevent this very issue. I think. Is that the difference? If so, I am wondering why the cap itself isn't working or why it can't be manufactured to work better? Am I being stupid about this?

And just in case I was unclear, I love my Buddy! I fully intend to maintain her and replace brakes, cables, rebuild engine, etc., but just not yet.

[illnoise]

Google "overfilling gas tank," and you'll find a thousand posts about the same problem on cars. The first post is someone complaining that his Mercedes Benz should be recalled because the same thing happened to him. There's loads of misinformation there, too, I found one site that says if you overfill your tank, gas will be pumped back into the gas station's tank, I find that pretty hard to believe.

The difference is that the design of the gas pump is such that it automatically shuts off at the right time. Sadly, with scooters, it isn't that easy, and you need to watch carefully to be sure not to overfill it. Again, this was very clearly explained to me by my dealer two years ago, and I'm pretty sure it's in the manual.

I've hung around at dealerships and I've seen plenty of people come in to pick up their bike. There's a lot of information being thrown at them right then, and all they want to do is ride. I'm sure some dealers omit some important info, and I'm sure some info is ignored by the buyer, but again, I'm pretty sure it's in the manual. Maybe not, I wish someone could find those PDF manuals...

BTW, if gas is leaking, and you're sure you're not overfilling, it's possible you have a real gas leak, it happens, but it's definitely not an epidemic. If you suspect you have a tank or fuel line leak, get it checked out ASAP, that could be a dangerous situation.

[Glen G]

Hey apierce!!! you started it LOL! Take care all

[illnoise]

my husband was saying that there is venting (or something like that - I may be paraphrasing from my old memory) in some gas caps that prevent this very issue. I think. Is that the difference? If so, I am wondering why the cap itself isn't working or why it can't be manufactured to work better? Am I being stupid about this?

Older motorcycles definitely have vented gas caps, I know my old Vespas do, and if they get blocked up, you have fuel delivery problems. I think the vapor recovery system is a fairly new thing in motorycycles, and not much older in cars. It's also built into gas pumps at gas stations to avoid vapors from escaping during fill-up.

As I understand it (and I might be very wrong), the 'breather' holes in gas caps have been replaced with vents (at the top of the cylinder leading to the tank) that vent vapors from the tank into a hose that leads to the carburetor. This system prevents tank vapors from escaping into the atmosphere, which reduces emissions. I am unsure if this is a USA-only EPA-mandated emissions-reduction system, or something common to the taiwanese-market models, too.

If the gas is filled up to that level, gas backflows into the tube and (as I understand it) either clogs up some sort of filter, or floods the carburetor, causing hard starting and stalling and erratic running.

Changing emissions regulations around the world require rapid changes on the fly by manufacturers. I'm sure as much forethought and testing as possible goes into it, but when you add the fact that they may be engineering different systems for different markets, sometimes they don't work perfectly and need to be revised or modified by dealers down the road. If it's truly a serious issue, an official NHTSA recall may be issued, but it takes time to determine if it's necessary and then more time to effectively issue it.

A good case in point is turn signals, they were mandated on motorcycles in the US in (IIRC) 1973, and many motorcycle manufacturers had to scramble to get them on. Vespa REALLY botched it, especially since many of their US 1973 models were really retrofitted (in the US by the importer) 1971 models that didn't sell well in Europe (sound familiar, modern Vespa owners). My "1973" Vespa Primavera was a 1971 model with huge generic blinkers sloppily mounted through holes drilled (unevenly) in the body, with the crudest wiring possible, and a relay mounted to a wooden board screwed into the frame. The 1974 models were more consistent, but didn't even work as well, they're notoriously awful. It didn't really get much better until Vespa redesigned their bikes and released the Rally 200, and then the P-series in 1977, with 12-volt electrics (it's SICK that it took them that long to go 12-volt).

[Glen G]

Hi Stroke Buzz, Really good info and I'm impressed with this Forum both Genuine and the dealer have been nothing but GREAT, GREAT, GREAT!!! its a wonderful machine.

[illnoise]

[quote="runtotorun121"]MY STARTER IS GOING BAD??? :shock: :wink:

"Send three and fourpence, we're going to a dance!"

[runtotorun121]

"Send three and fourpence, we're going to a dance!"

Okay, now I have to go back to one of the "getting to know you" threads and see if you have a history background. . .

[runtotorun121]

Oh, and I just thought, this seems like it could easily be a sibling to "Why red is red"!

[louie]

... NOTIFY GENIUNE YOU ARE HAVING A PROBLEM AND DEMAND A PERMANENT FIX BE IMPLEMENTED IMMIATELY.

or you could call your dealer and tell them of you problem and worries, you know talk to them.

i've not had a lot of success in DEMANDING SATISFACTION, it's not even that effective as a last resort. genunie has an excellent rep with dealer and customer satisfaction and it sounds as if they want this to get fixed. i don't understand where the DEMANDING tone comes from.

i'd think all you need to do is agree on expectations...

[illnoise]

Oh, and I just thought, this seems like it could easily be a sibling to "Why red is red"! :D

MY STARTER IS GOING BALD!?!

[runtotorun121]

*choking on water*


It's getting too late for my brain because the next witty thing is not making itself accessible! But I will be thinking. . .

[Orange Guy]

I'm pretty sure it's in the manual. Maybe not, I wish someone could find those PDF manuals...

This quote from the 2008 Buddy 125 manual ought to clear all this up:

CAUTION:
1. Please fill the unleaded gas if your scooter is equipped with catalyster.
2. Do not fill up the gas over the neck of gas entrance, otherwise it will be spilling out due to the hot temperature.
3. It may cause inflammable if gas is split onto the engine or muffler.

So there you go. If you truly are worried about a fire, just don't split your gas. sheesh, that was easy.

[jmazza]

I'm pretty sure it's in the manual. Maybe not, I wish someone could find those PDF manuals...

This quote from the 2008 Buddy 125 manual ought to clear all this up:

CAUTION:
1. Please fill the unleaded gas if your scooter is equipped with catalyster.
2. Do not fill up the gas over the neck of gas entrance, otherwise it will be spilling out due to the hot temperature.
3. It may cause inflammable if gas is split onto the engine or muffler.

So there you go. If you truly are worried about a fire, just don't split your gas. sheesh, that was easy.

It said nothing about fire. Just that it may cause inflammable.

And it also will burn that little dog in the picture a few pages later.

[5 bud7]

The problem with the gas tanks is not being cured with the cap being drilled, it is just bypassing the smog system. Saying genuine is a small company so should not be responsible is baloney. Putting a scooter that is leaking gas in a closed garage will cause an explosion and fire ehen the water heater or dryer ignites. The way you demand repairs is everyone call or e-mail genuine about problem. Please take this more seriously and not as a small thing.

[hackett]

MY STARTER IS GOING BALD!?!

MY BALDNESS IS STARTING?!?

[illnoise]

The problem with the gas tanks is not being cured with the cap being drilled, it is just bypassing the smog system.

I agree, so DON'T OVERFILL IT. If you spill gas all over your car, it's dangerous too. This is not a design flaw or a malfunction, it is user error and lack of education. Again, just about every scooter made to EPA specs right now has the same vapor retention system, and they all do the same thing if you fill it up to the rim.

Saying genuine is a small company so should not be responsible is baloney.

I didn't say they're not responsible, I said I'm sure they're shortstaffed and surely investigating the issue, if there is one, but it takes time. Genuine rarely responds to end-consumer inquiries, because that's not their place. Hassling them is a waste of your time. They have a good dealer system, and if you're communicating with your dealer, and your dealer is communicating with them, then they're on it, and the information gets spread more efficiently. Marching up Damen Avenue with torches and pitchforks isn't going to help matters one bit.

Putting a scooter that is leaking gas in a closed garage will cause an explosion and fire ehen the water heater or dryer ignites.

"Will?" I suppose it *could.* Your car exhaust and lawnmower and gas can are emitting gas vapors in your garage, too, call the NHTSA and have them recalled.

The way you demand repairs is everyone call or e-mail genuine about problem. Please take this more seriously and not as a small thing.

Maybe that's how YOU demand repairs. Others try reading the manual first to see what's wrong, and failing that, talking to their dealer. If you forget to hold in your brake lever as you press the starter, and the bike doesn't start, do you knock on Phil McCaleb's door at 3AM and DEMAND a recall because you didn't read the instructions? Good luck with that.

Maybe this is a safety issue, but panicking and DEMANDING is not the way to address it. Genuine is surely fully aware of the concern, as are most of their dealers, and it will be addressed. Hopefully it will ensure further dummyproofing that will require new parts and R&D that will drive the cost of the scooters up because people can't follow instructions and overreact.

[Rockledge Buddy]

Hi There,

Another lurker. I have owned a Pamploma 150 since May. I started having the stalling while going 55 mph problem a couple of weeks ago. After trying the vapor lock tricks (did not drill holes) and nothing worked I took it back to the dealer. Origianally they thought the problem was the automatic choke kicking in when the engine was warmed up causing it to flood (the engine wouldn't stall, just cut back to an idle). Turns out it wasn't that and I had to leave it at the dealers. I called them today and they are expecting new gas caps from Genuine today or tommorrow...I am hopeing that that will fix the problem. Either way the dealer is going to deliver my scooter to me when it is fixed (its a 55 mile trip).

[jfrost2]

Ya, many people have fluids dripping from their car which can be harmful if caught on fire, but what are the chances? When was the last time some fluid dripping from the bottom of your car caught on fire and burnt your house down?

Plus, gas in it's liquid form evaporates very quickly, when mine dripped, before the next drip fell, the old one was already gone.

[runtotorun121]

I called them today and they are expecting new gas caps from Genuine today or tommorrow...I am hopeing that that will fix the problem. Either way the dealer is going to deliver my scooter to me when it is fixed (its a 55 mile trip).

Yea! for Genuine working on sending out new gas caps!!! And more Yea! for your dealer delivering your scooter to you!

I do love my Buddy! I think I am a Genuine and Buddy fan for a really long time.

[bfreed]

Hi There,

Another lurker. I have owned a Pamploma 150 since May. I started having the stalling while going 55 mph problem a couple of weeks ago. After trying the vapor lock tricks (did not drill holes) and nothing worked I took it back to the dealer. Origianally they thought the problem was the automatic choke kicking in when the engine was warmed up causing it to flood (the engine wouldn't stall, just cut back to an idle). Turns out it wasn't that and I had to leave it at the dealers. I called them today and they are expecting new gas caps from Genuine today or tommorrow...I am hopeing that that will fix the problem. Either way the dealer is going to deliver my scooter to me when it is fixed (its a 55 mile trip).

completely stalling at 55, or dropping to idle at 55?
Mine did the "drop to idle" thing 2 weeks ago. Bad gas, I presume. I filled up at a different gas station and haven't had it happen again (it happened at ~240 miles, I'm at ~460 miles now)

Several other possibilities on the forum here, from bad stators (whatever that is) to vapor lock. But I'd run some fresh gas from a different source through the scooter (being careful to not overfill!!!) first.

[jfrost2]

Stator is what produces electricity to recharge the battery, like a alternator in a car, but smaller.

[Dooglas]

Saying genuine is a small company so should not be responsible is baloney.

I didn't say they're not responsible, I said I'm sure they're shortstaffed and surely investigating the issue, if there is one, but it takes time. Genuine rarely responds to end-consumer inquiries, because that's not their place. Hassling them is a waste of your time. They have a good dealer system, and if you're communicating with your dealer, and your dealer is communicating with them, then they're on it, and the information gets spread more efficiently. Marching up Damen Avenue with torches and pitchforks isn't going to help matters one bit.

The way you demand repairs is everyone call or e-mail genuine about problem. Please take this more seriously and not as a small thing.

Maybe that's how YOU demand repairs. Others try reading the manual first to see what's wrong, and failing that, talking to their dealer. If you forget to hold in your brake lever as you press the starter, and the bike doesn't start, do you knock on Phil McCaleb's door at 3AM and DEMAND a recall because you didn't read the instructions? Good luck with that.

Maybe this is a safety issue, but panicking and DEMANDING is not the way to address it. Genuine is surely fully aware of the concern, as are most of their dealers, and it will be addressed. Hopefully it will ensure further dummyproofing that will require new parts and R&D that will drive the cost of the scooters up because people can't follow instructions and overreact.

Thanks Illnoise. That needed to be said to bring this discussion back down to earth. Also good advice about how to effectively address real issues rather than just rant.

[jfrost2]

If you're asking for genuine to fix it, and DEMANDING them to, then go tell that to the EPA since just about every scooter they pass has this same system. Remember, genuine doesnt build these scooters, they are made in taiwan by PGO motors, PGO would have to "fix it". But really, there is nothing to fix.

[runtotorun121]

Also good advice about how to effectively address real issues rather than just rant.

From my perspective I haven't heard any "ranting", just people expressing their concerns, opinions, and recommendations. Some people may be more passionate about their ideas, but stating ideas or suggestions seems a reasonable discourse; however, as I mentioned in a post late last night I think the pejorative comments are less useful to me.

[5 bud7]

I respect your opinion, two stroke, but think you are taking this situation way to lightly. As for the 17 year olds opinion, he starts motors without oil to see where the leak is. If you trust his opion I have a bridge for sale cheap. I did see a house in the neighborhood burn because they used gas to clean a oil spill. BURNED THE GARAGE AND KITCHEN AREA DOWN BEFORE THE FIRE DEPT. COULD GET THERE. If it is true they all use this system, why is genuine only having the trouble. Just because you do not smog test scooters is no excuse to by-pass the system put in place to help save our planet. I don't think any of you like the smog you breath in the larger cities.

[illnoise]

If it is true they all use this system, why is genuine only having the trouble.

As I've pointed out several times, that's not the case, my friend did it on his LXV just yesterday. There are threads on Modern Vespa just like this one, and a tech thread about it.

Just because you do not smog test scooters is no excuse to by-pass the system put in place to help save our planet. I don't think any of you like the smog you breath in the larger cities.

Again, if you'll read what I've written (granted, it may take all night), I agree with you about that. We don't have any documented proof that Genuine has directed dealers to drill holes, though it sounds like they may have and in any case, it also sounds like new gas caps are on the way for 08 models.

Like I've said several times now, maybe there is more to it than it appears, and it's worth addressing and figuring out, but panicking, threatening, and getting angry is counterproductive.

I'm not arguing about this anymore, because frankly, I don't even own a buddy and I don't know what the heck is going on. My point is that approaching the problem logically and politely, and handling it through the appropriate channels, makes more sense than riling up people about a problem that might not even exist. If there is a problem, Genuine is surely aware of it, and appropriate action will be taken. Genuine doesn't want your garage 'sploding any more than you do.

Don't overfill your tank. If there's still a problem, see your dealer. It's that simple.

Bb.

[jfrost2]

Other companies all have the same problem, but to them it isnt a problem because there is no problem at all. It's the users own problem because of how much gas they force into the tank. If you do this into a car, a similar thing happens. My dad had forced way too much gas into the camry once when gas was cheap, and for 5-6 miles his engine kept stalling and shutting off. Too much pressure, the gas goes somewhere, either forced into the carb, or out the vehicle.

The reason why "only genuine" has this issue is because we're a forum based upon genuine scooters. Most of us own a buddy, you wont be seeing masses of yamaha or honda owners here talking about zumas or metros. On their own forums, they talk about the same problems and questions as we do.

I did see a house in the neighborhood burn because they used gas to clean a oil spill. BURNED THE GARAGE AND KITCHEN AREA DOWN BEFORE THE FIRE DEPT. COULD GET THERE.

Who is crazy enough to use gasoline to clean oil? Both are flammable, of course they'd burn the house down, but your talking about a large amount while what drips from the buddy is just a small drip. If that caught on fire, it would last for a second or two and then put itself out.

There is no way it's dangerous to the point that a "explosion" would occur. The Gas tank would need to be drilled and have a stream of gas squirting out, then have something ignite the gas for it to be "explosive".

As for the 17 year olds opinion, he starts motors without oil to see where the leak is. If you trust his opion I have a bridge for sale cheap.

I dont like this statement at all, what happened back then to a certain bike was pure accident, anyone would just assume it was bad gas/vapor lock and try turning the bike on again, it's just human nature. If I would have known it was oil originally, of course I wouldnt have started the motor on the bike. But I think bringing this event back into discussion to help defend yourself is very childish when it has absolutely nothing to do with the matter. Also, my age has nothing to do with this topic, so just because I may be much younger than most members, it doesnt mean I dont have common sense.