Who's Crashed? [Crash Reports]

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:55 am

We'll definitely miss you, maribell. Scooters and riding aren't the most important things in the world. (Shock!) Take care of yourself, heal up, get married!

There's always 2012!

GrittyTacoman · Post by **GrittyTacoman** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:48 pm

Any other newish parents out there?

My point being, after a recent near miss on the scooter with someone pulling out in front of me, and then becoming a first-time parent 10 weeks ago, I notice myself growing more risk averse on the scooter. Riding is great but I do sometimes have the thoughts of, Is the extra risk worth it?

Find myself adjusting my riding times to avoid when there's more cars on the road, even though I'm just doing in-city, suburban riding.

Maybe this is just a phase

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:40 pm

GrittyTacoman wrote:Any other newish parents out there?

My point being, after a recent near miss on the scooter with someone pulling out in front of me, and then becoming a first-time parent 10 weeks ago, I notice myself growing more risk averse on the scooter. Riding is great but I do sometimes have the thoughts of, Is the extra risk worth it?

Find myself adjusting my riding times to avoid when there's more cars on the road, even though I'm just doing in-city, suburban riding.

Maybe this is just a phase

I have 3 teenagers (ages 17, 18 and 18 ).
So I ride WOT, no helmet, eyes closed, weaving in and out of traffic and running through red lights and stop signs while drinking and texting.

Just kidding. I ride safe (though sometimes fast) and I love my kids.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:40 pm

Tocsik wrote:I have 3 teenagers (ages 17, 18 and 18 ).
So I ride WOT, no helmet, eyes closed, weaving in and out of traffic and running through red lights and stop signs while drinking and texting.

You're supposed to be setting an example for them, not following theirs.

weirdsong1 · Post by **weirdsong1** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:54 pm

GrittyTacoman wrote:Any other newish parents out there?

My point being, after a recent near miss on the scooter with someone pulling out in front of me, and then becoming a first-time parent 10 weeks ago, I notice myself growing more risk averse on the scooter. Riding is great but I do sometimes have the thoughts of, Is the extra risk worth it?

Find myself adjusting my riding times to avoid when there's more cars on the road, even though I'm just doing in-city, suburban riding.

Maybe this is just a phase

Have a 5-month-old at home, and yeah I think about it. Especially in a town like Naples where the average age is about 114.

But actually, the scooter was a concession (of sorts) for me. Sold my car and changed jobs so my wife could stay home with baby. I got a scooter and don't have to do any midnight feedings. Pretty good deal I'd say

Post by **polianarchy** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:05 pm

O NO, MARIBELL!!! Your freakin' COLLARBONE?! Owies.

Please heal up quick & well. I'm super-bummed you're not making it to AmeriVespa.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:15 pm

^ i actually looked this one up. all i can say is....ouch

heal up well!

michelle_7728 · Post by **michelle_7728** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:05 am

Oh geez, Eric! I just read about your accident!

That really stinks.

Let me guess..."I didn't see you!".

It sure would be nice if people would take a little responsibility when they get behind the wheel.

It could have been a lot worse--at least you are ambulatory. A friend of mine had someone pull out in front of him last year, and he is still recovering after countless surgeries...at least he's walking now without crutches.

I hope you are able to get a new Stella out of this...if you can even find one, that is!

Post by **ericalm** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:08 am

Thanks, michelle_7728! According to the CA DMV, April is Distracted Driver Awareness Month! I'm very aware of them. They're just not aware of us. Or that they have a month devoted to them.

michelle_7728 wrote:I hope you are able to get a new Stella out of this...if you can even find one, that is!

I know where there are many of them! They're not too hard to find.

I'd be sad if it were totaled. While that would get me on a scooter faster (yay), I'd like to hold on to #00004. I've already bonded with this one, ha. Also, if it's repairable, insurance pays for a new paint job and I might go with a custom color.

BootScootin'FireFighter · Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:01 pm

damn Maribell, sorry to hear you wrecked too. Heal well, enjoy the percocets, sorry I won't get to hang in N.O. with ya

michelle_7728 · Post by **michelle_7728** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:01 pm

ericalm wrote:I'd be sad if it were totaled. While that would get me on a scooter faster (yay), I'd like to hold on to #00004. I've already bonded with this one, ha. Also, if it's repairable, insurance pays for a new paint job and I might go with a custom color.

I almost PMed you rather than posting, thinking this might be off-topic, but actually it's very ON topic, and others who think their scooters might be totalled might benefit.

According to my dealer, insurance companies "total" scooters even when there is very little damage, due to the high cost of labor to fix things.

So the thing to do is to talk to the dealer where you had the scooter towed to (or trailer it there if you haven't already). Have them check it out and see if the frame is bent. If the frame is NOT bent, ask them for a list of the parts needed to put it back in shape.

Then when the insurance comany sends you the check for your damages, and tells you how much you would have to pay to buy your scooter back, you can make an informed decision.

In my case, I bought the scooter back for $400, then put another $500~ back in to it to get it back to where I wanted it (handlebars, body pieces, headlight, mirrors, windshield, miscellanous other small parts...doing the work ourselves, but ordering the parts from the dealer). Yes, you can re-register it and re-insure it (at least in Washington state) as salvaged.

I have since put around 1,700 miles on the scooter (including 62 mph miles), and am convinced I made the right decision--IMO it rides like it was never in an accident. With the medical settlement (mainly chiropractic, and pain and suffering of which thank God it wasn't major), and the physical damage settlement (for the scooter), I was able to put a huge down payment on a used MP3.

Not saying others would want to buy an MP3, maybe they'd want a BlackJack, a Stella, another Buddy, or different scooter or motorcycle...just saying there was enough left to do that.

So never think that just because the insurance company says something is totalled that your scooter is definitely beyond repair. Sometimes they might be, but many times they aren't. Check it out.

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:53 am

All too true. I've seen a lot of repairable scoots totaled by insurance. I also know people who've gotten good deals on salvage scoots they fixed up to ride.

I think it's difficult in CA to get your scooter from the insurance company once they total it. I inquired about this last time I totaled a scooter (oops) and was told that they have to take possession, at which point it goes to a black hole, then shows up at auction. No "we'll let you have it for $XY" deals, at least with the insurers I'ver worked with.

Should know this week where it all stands.

lmyers · Post by **lmyers** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 1:41 am

Gosh, Eric and Mary, I have been so out of touch this week! Sorry to see you all banged up and Stella-less! Heal quickly, y'all.

peabody99 · Post by **peabody99** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:01 am

GrittyTacoman wrote:Any other newish parents out there?

My point being, after a recent near miss on the scooter with someone pulling out in front of me, and then becoming a first-time parent 10 weeks ago, I notice myself growing more risk averse on the scooter. Riding is great but I do sometimes have the thoughts of, Is the extra risk worth it?

Find myself adjusting my riding times to avoid when there's more cars on the road, even though I'm just doing in-city, suburban riding.

Maybe this is just a phase

Congrats on being a new parent! Hey there is nothing wrong with reassessing risk throughout life and making adjustments even if there is not a wrinkly, wet nosed ball of tears reminding us to do so.

pugbuddy · Post by **pugbuddy** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:59 am

Eric and Marybell--GET WELL! God bless you both!

DirtyRAT · Post by **DirtyRAT** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:05 am

This is certainly an active thread!

I am new here, but not a new rider, yet a returning rider. Eric's story, as do other's, lead me to one conclusion:

I am going to beep my goddamned Steibel horn liberally at everyone. Seriously. It's LOUD.

I would rather piss off a motorist who genuinely sees my scooter, than risk being victim to inattentive drivers.

I just ordered a kevlar jacket from motoport.com, now that the bejesus has been scared out of me.

Live well and prosper...and get good insurance.

** Update: it's been a few days of beeping my loud horn at cars since posting. One person flipped me off, most do nothing, and some wave. Better to be an annoyance than a corpse. **

DirtyRAT · Post by **DirtyRAT** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:39 am

ericalm wrote:Wasn't anticipating posting another report in here so soon after the last!

4. Was the rider injured? What type of protective gear or clothing was the rider wearing?
Yup. Pretty much bruised and banged up from the neck down but no breaks or internal injuries. The worst are bruised ribs and a banged up knee that's sporting a nice softball-sized hematoma on the side.

Wearing modular helmet, gloves, Corazzo Tempeste jacket, light boots.

Hi Eric,

As a returning rider, relearning stuff, I am glad you were not more seriously injured. Your post prompted me to start seriously looking for protective gear that matters. A Kevlar jacket fitting appointment is in the works...ugh.

I already ordered some Chuck Taylor leather steel toed shoes after the post where someone got toes ground off in a crash while wearing sneakers.

I am curious about some items you wear/wore:

What is a modular helmet?

Were your gloves armored in any way?

The Corrazzo Tempest jacket looks swell, but did the armored back, shoulders, & elbows have any efficacy in your opinion?

Can I assume you were wearing un-armored pants?

On a side note, a 3-hour emergency room visit is no fun. The triage nurse likely took one look at you, and saw you not bleeding, convulsing, going into shock, and put more needy people in front of you. It has happened like that to me, in past ER visits.

If only we could afford one of those private hospitals

I hope you heal, and please don't quit riding, especially through Griffith Park. It's as lovely as I remember.

Post by **ericalm** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 3:17 am

Thanks, DirtyRAT!

A modular helmet is also known as a flip-up. It's like a full face, but the chinbar and front of the helmet is hinged and locks into place when down. This is the helmet I was wearing: http://www.vegahelmet.com/summit2.html

I'm very hard to fit in helmets and have yet to find a solid full face I can wear.

The armor in the jacket didn't do much in this instance because I wasn't in a slide and the impact injuries were to areas not covered by armor: chest, legs, upper arms.

The gloves not armored but they do have extra padding and protection in them. They're a new pair I got cheap until I can replace the Velcro on my favorite gloves. They are motorcycle gloves, though. Basically the same as these. (Before the Bilt line, CycleGear made an identical glove under the Motoboss name.)

I was wearing jeans. Eventually, I'll have some armored riding pants, but I don't foresee myself wearing them all of the time. They'll be reserved for touring, canyon runs, etc. Just not practical for every day. Compromises are made…

I'm definitely going to keep riding! I just need a scooter!

nwerikamp · Post by **nwerikamp** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:54 pm

Here's another one to add to the listing... fun fun.

1. Which model and displacement (CCs) scooter was crashed? Color?
Red Buddy 125

2. Was the crash due to rider error? What time of day did it occur?
Rider error in the daytime on dry pavement compounded by newer slick tires. Car two cars in front of me decided to slam on the breaks to make turn into a side-road, driver in front of me didn't see it until last second. Traffic in left lane boxed me in. I breaked too hard, too fast, and became friends with the asphalt.

3. Could the crash have been avoided? What will you do differently next time?
Yep. More following distance and a strong aversion to that higher-speed road. Hadn't ridden on it for a long time and had forgotten how insane people drive on it.

4. Was the rider injured? What type of protective gear or clothing was the rider wearing?
Cracked radius (radius = longbone in arm=3 weeks cast + a few weeks in a brace). Other than that, my armored pants (scorpion), armored jacket (Corazzo), full-face helmet, gloves, and boots functioned exactly as advertised. Thankfully, no one was tailgating me.

5. What was the damage to the scooter?
Top plastic piece (around spedometer), one rearview mirror, and the right break handle & grip were replaced. Some scuffs on front and side panels, but in same spots as normal road rash and easily covered by decals and edging.

6. Cost of repairs, if any?
About the cost of the first service. (which I negotiated into my purchase)

7. How much (weeks, months, years) riding experience does the rider have? Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither?
Licensed. A few weeks total riding time, though not all on this scooter.

8. Had the rider completed the MSF course?
Yes.

9. Was the rider the scooter's owner?
Yes.

10. How fast was the rider going?
55 at start of incident. 20-30 at "hello pavement" (though adrenaline took over when I saw brakelights...so I'm not positive).

11. How far was the rider from home?
15 miles from home.

Yeah....not happy with myself. All should be healed and good in a few weeks.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:14 am

^ bad news!

heal up fast and well, though. and hopefully you'll be scootin' again before you know it

and at a safer distance from the horrible cagers!

Post by **jrsjr** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:52 am

nwerikamp wrote:..Other than that, my armored pants (scorpion), armored jacket (Corazzo), full-face helmet, gloves, and boots functioned exactly as advertised.

Glad to hear it! I hate to ask you to relive the accident, but I'd be interested to know whether it seemed to happen in a flash or if you had the sense that seconds of time transpired. Do you remember?

Again, glad you (and your scooter) are basically okay.

nwerikamp · Post by **nwerikamp** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:02 am

jrsjr wrote:
nwerikamp wrote:..Other than that, my armored pants (scorpion), armored jacket (Corazzo), full-face helmet, gloves, and boots functioned exactly as advertised.
Glad to hear it! I hate to ask you to relive the accident, but I'd be interested to know whether it seemed to happen in a flash or if you had the sense that seconds of time transpired. Do you remember?

Again, glad you (and your scooter) are basically okay.

Everything happened in a flash. Honestly, I remember seeing brake lights...and then standing on the side of the road next to my scooter. My first thought was that I had left her running.

It wasn't until I saw the couple from the car in front of me standing next to me staring that I started to figure out what had happened. I don't remember anything about the actual crash...everything is pieced together based on what came before, what the other car said, and damage to my bike and gear.

Curious....why do you ask?

Post by **jrsjr** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:20 am

nwerikamp wrote:Everything happened in a flash. (...)

Curious....why do you ask?

It seems like every time I've crashed by skidding the rear tire, it's happened slowly. When I've crashed by skidding the front wheel, it's been, wham, and I'm up standing by the side of the road before I know what's happened. Interestingly, that's almost exactly how you described your crash. It's pure guesswork on my part, but I'm guessing you washed the front end out while braking, maybe on a oily spot or something like that.

Quo Vadimus · Post by **Quo Vadimus** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:38 pm

Sigh.

Sigh.

You know that feeling of "I'm not telling it to do this! What the... hey! WHAT THE!"

Sigh.

Edge trapped.

In my own freaking driveway.

1. Which model and displacement (CCs) scooter was crashed? Color?
Kymco Super 8 150 Red.

2. Was the crash due to rider error? What time of day did it occur?
Yes. Big Dufus Rider error. 12:40pm.

3. Could the crash have been avoided? What will you do differently next time?
Watch where I'm going.

4. Was the rider injured? What type of protective gear or clothing was the rider wearing?
My right elbow is sore when straightened (no swelling or bruising). I have a snake bite on my wrist where my watch band pulled off and the watch bit into my skin. Fully geared up - with evidence that I would've had at least scraped up my leg, forearm, and FACE without the gear.

5. What was the damage to the scooter?
minor scuffs and a dangling turn signal

6. Cost of repairs, if any?
Probably ~ $2.00 for electrical tape

7. How much (weeks, months, years) riding experience does the rider have? Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither?
Little more than three years. Licensed.

8. Had the rider completed the MSF course?
No

9. Was the rider the scooter's owner?
yes

10. How fast was the rider going?
1mph

11. How far was the rider from home?
4 feet

I've read both Hough books and am always very conscious of even the smallest edge traps on the road. Still, it was pretty amazing just how independently Fiona seemed to behave. In the moment I really believed something mechanical was wrong - it was as though I'd left the handlebars locked or the wheel chained, the way she fought back just as strong as I tried to straighten up. Then, of course, as she started to lean away from me, I clung to the grips, causing her to accelerate as we went down. (This has been a lifelong problem for me, not letting go of things. I broke my collar bone in eighth grade in a sack race because I didn't let go of the sack to break my fall. My thumbs always hyperextend when I'm in a bicycle accident).

I'd like to note that, if I'm remembering correctly, I'm fitting exactly into the Hurt report stats - I had an accident after 7 months of riding (noob) and now after 3 years (overconfidence).

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:58 pm

jrsjr wrote:
nwerikamp wrote:Everything happened in a flash. (...)

Curious....why do you ask?
It seems like every time I've crashed by skidding the rear tire, it's happened slowly. When I've crashed by skidding the front wheel, it's been, wham, and I'm up standing by the side of the road before I know what's happened. Interestingly, that's almost exactly how you described your crash. It's pure guesswork on my part, but I'm guessing you washed the front end out while braking, maybe on a oily spot or something like that.

That's also pretty much my experience (except for the standing up part). It was see car. Grab brake. See wheelwell I'm going to hit dead on. See someone telling me not to move. (Even reading that takes longer than my T-Bone took.) That is interesting. It's almost like our conscious minds are saying "HEY! This is going to hurt. I'll be right back".

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:06 pm

Syd wrote:It's almost like our conscious minds are saying "HEY! This is going to hurt. I'll be right back".

Yup. The crashes or car accidents I do remember in detail have given me much more post-crash mental trauma, nervousness, etc. I tend to visualize it over and over in my mind. My most recent crash went from, "Ah, this is going to hurt" to "I'm on the ground! I can't breathe! My wife's going to KILL me!" in a flash.

Post by **jrsjr** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:33 pm

Quo Vadimus wrote:I would've had at least scraped up my leg, forearm, and FACE without the gear.

It's amazing to think that you have to have gear to ride safely in yor own driveway. This is a great reminder to all those folks who think they don't need to wear gear if they're just ridding to the store.

Glad you're okay. Do you need a new helmet?

[EDITed because there really is a difference between "tow ear" and "to wear," even though my spiel checker thought it was fine!

]

Quo Vadimus · Post by **Quo Vadimus** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:50 pm

jrsjr wrote: It's amazing to think that you have to have gear to ride safely in your own driveway.

Glad you're okay. Do you need a new helmet?

Yeah. I don't think it was the fall as much as the accelerating (and not letting go) on the way down. But, yeah.

Funny you ask about the helmet - I've been a firm believer that dropping a helmet means replacing a helmet, empty or full. But now I'm waffling. There are several ~2" scratches across the side of the visor and one or two on the body of the helmet itself. I'm tempted to convince myself that an impact-that-might-really-have-been-more-of-a-scrape to mostly-the-visor isn't unsafe... but I know I'm partially thinking that way because of recent household expenditures. Not sure what I'll do yet.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:54 pm

jrsjr wrote:
Quo Vadimus wrote:I would've had at least scraped up my leg, forearm, and FACE without the gear.
It's amazing to think that you have to have gear to ride safely in yor own driveway.

I once tipped over with a passenger on the back of my scoot. We were pulling out of a driveway, so maybe 5mph. We both had gear on but wound up bruised and banged up. I got hit in the elbow and irritated a nerve, which bothered me for months afterwards. So. Yeah.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:35 pm

1. Which model and displacement (CCs) scooter was crashed? Color -

Buddy Blackjack

2. Was the crash due to rider error? What time of day did it occur? -

No...and it happened at around 9:30am

3. Could the crash have been avoided? What will you do differently next time? -

No.... and other then not riding in the wet, nothing

4. Was the rider injured? What type of protective gear or clothing was the rider wearing? -

Minor road rash on left elbow, both knees, swollen right hand between thumb and index finger. Rider was wearing riding gloves, riding shoes, long sleeve hoody, long sleeve shirt, two t-shirts, helmet. I felt well protected when i picked myself up off the ground

5. What was the damage to the scooter? -

Cosmetic and minor. Scraped up leg shield, scraped up headlight bezel, torn left hand grip

6. Cost of repairs, if any? -

Don't know, most likely minimal

7. How much (weeks, months, years) riding experience does the rider have? Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither? -

11 months, i have a permit

8. Had the rider completed the MSF course? -

nah

9. Was the rider the scooter's owner? -

Nope

10. How fast was the rider going? -

Around 20mph - 30mph

11. How far was the rider from home? -

About 3.5 miles

I came through fairly well, all in all. As did the scoot. I fell really hard and rolled. Helmet did its job as it bounced off the pavement several times, gloves did their job as my right hand slammed into the ground, my just purchased riding shoes came through great, and not even my hoody or jeans suffered a tear, even though i did achieve minor road rash and my shirt under my hoody was torn in a few places. Weird how that happens....

I feel lucky, grateful, and honestly a bit more indestructible then i felt yesterday

GrittyTacoman · Post by **GrittyTacoman** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:54 pm

JH, what happened? Sounds like the scooter skidded out on a wet road or something?

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:17 pm

thats exactly what happened, gritty. the scooter is due for a service and since i had time today i figured it was a good day to take it in

leaving early to make a doctor appointment (then to the scooter shop) it had drizzled overnight and early morning. the ground was a bit wet, and i have rode in the wet before so really didn't give it a second thought. came to an intersection and proceeded to slow for a stop, and next thing i know the scoot slides out from under me and i am on the ground, rolling. it was a nice, smooth slowdown like any other and the next thing i knew i was down

BootScootin'FireFighter · Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:46 pm

glad you're ok. sucks that you dumped it though. you've been quiet, I was just starting to notice you haven't been on much lately. I thought you were riding to New Orleans or something. Heal up and get back at it soon.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:38 pm

JHScoot wrote:2. Was the crash due to rider error? What time of day did it occur? -
No...and it happened at around 9:30am

Glad to hear you came through it okay. I feel a bit like a snot piling on - but I have to say that there are not many (any? maybe lightening strikes?) single vehicle accidents where there is no rider error involved. The trick is to learn from what happened. Surely there is something you will do differently next time a similar situation comes up.

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:26 pm

Glad you're OK JH Scoot. The one time I went down was because of a wet, oily, slippery road. Riding on wet pavement has its challenges. Especially at intersections.

For the benefit of all, here's some thoughts on riding in the wet (from the MSF course and some personal experience)

1) Stay away from the center of the lane. Oil and other automotive fluids drip there. And no car tires travel over those fluids to help clean them away. Thus, very, very slippery, wet, oil and grease remains in the center of the lane.
2) Same goes double for intersections where cars sit stationary all the time.
3) Intersections also have lots of paint on the road. Paint is even more slippery than asphalt and is all the more treacherous when wet. Avoid riding on paint whenever possible. Wet or dry.
4) A mild rain, mist, or sprinkle is even more dangerous than a hard downpour. All a sprinkle does is make things slippery and does not deliver enough actual H2O to wash the oils and other fluids off the roads. Downpours will wash the slippery stuff away.
5) The most dangerous time in the rain is immediately after it starts. That is when the roads are their most slippery. You might want to pull over and give it some time for harder rain to wash the slippery stuff away.
6) Rain makes you twice as invisible (literally). Wet roads reflect light. That means twice as many visual distractions for drivers as every light now reflects and appears as two lights or more. It is easy for a little scooter to get lost and not be seen among all that visual noise.

And last but not least, if you think cagers are dangerous incompetents on a regular daily basis, they are all the more pathetic in the rain. Take the road less travelled!

Cheers. Heal up quickly JH.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:13 am

Dooglas wrote:
JHScoot wrote:2. Was the crash due to rider error? What time of day did it occur? -
No...and it happened at around 9:30am
Glad to hear you came through it okay. I feel a bit like a snot piling on - but I have to say that there are not many (any? maybe lightening strikes?) single vehicle accidents where there is no rider error involved. The trick is to learn from what happened. Surely there is something you will do differently next time a similar situation comes up.

i have given this careful thought as to learn from the incident, but the only thing i can come up with is not to ride in the wet. it was a single lane, car in front of me, light changing red, i braked with my rear to test the traction somewhat, and down went the scooter

oil, damp road, lesson learned. no more rain riding for me. traffic is enough of a hazard much less roads slippery as teflon

BootScootin'FireFighter wrote:glad you're ok. sucks that you dumped it though. you've been quiet, I was just starting to notice you haven't been on much lately. I thought you were riding to New Orleans or something. Heal up and get back at it soon.

thanks, bootscootin.' wish i was in NOLA, as well!

Skootz Kabootz wrote:Glad you're OK JH Scoot. The one time I went down was because of a wet, oily, slippery road. Riding on wet pavement has its challenges. Especially at intersections.....

....Cheers. Heal up quickly JH.

thanks for that post and the well wishes, and while i know these road hazards and conditions can also happen in the dry, living in SoCal gives me enough riding days in the year. and since i am a full time rider a car is out of the question. so wet days will see me on the bus from now on. i've not really taken the bus before in my adult life so it should be....different. so thats fine. but being thrown off my scooter has turned me from rain riding. if for no other reason its not necessary and i got off sort of cheap today

man, i fell HARD. and so thats a good sign for gratitude and not taking more riding risks then necessary

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:58 pm

just wanted to give an update of how things are for me now that a night has past. i should also say i am posting this so as skootz said about his post, it may help others or give them pause for thought

this was my first time down and i won't even speculate about a next time. and while i am not an ATGATT guy so can't talk like it, it is riding season and i see far too many scooter riders out in shorts, t-shirts, weak shoes, and without gloves. not riding along the side of the road or down near the beach, but in fast moving city traffic. i never really understood that before, and still don't. but as said i am not an ATGATT person, so can only say what happened to me, and what i do

this morning i have road rash on one elbow and both knees, with a big dark bruise on my right knee. i have a very swollen right hand at the thumb webbing, pain in my chest bone (or whatever its called) and neck 'n shoulders, and assorted minor lumps and bumps on my legs.

i was wearing Levi's (they did not tear), a strong hoody (did not tear, but the shirt worn beneath is somewhat shredded on the left arm) durable riding gloves, low top riding shoes (Skechers Work Hardwood), two t-shirts, and a $50 helmet i picked up for $30 last year.

why do i mention all this? its because my injuries were minor even with what some would consider moderate protection (no armor was worn). and when i consider other scooterists i see riding in shorts, skirts, open toe shoes, a thin t-shirt, and no gloves, well, i just want to say please don't do that. if you are one who does it you have most likely never been down like i went down today. like a 250 pound sack of potatoes thrown off the back of a truck

when i hopped up from the ground two gentlemen had run over to assist me. i was happy to see them running over while i was getting up. i felt ok, i looked myself up and down...everything was fine. my right hand hurt, my chest hurt a bit, i looked at my new shoes and said 'i shouldn't have worn these today...they're new!'

fact of the matter is the left one probably saved me some broken toes or worse

i will be getting some armor for my elbows and knees now, at least. to wear under my clothes. and a new armored jacket. but i realize this morning just how incredibly fortunate i am and that many, even when geared out a bit, are not as fortunate even in the kind of single rider accident i had yesterday. broken bones, ripped flesh, bruises big as grapefruits.

so imagine if you go down wearing a "fun in the sun" outfit? it's just not worth it imo

everyone ride safe

Tenchi · Post by **Tenchi** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:46 am

He just finished his motorcycle safety course three weeks ago, went out and bought himself a new 250 Honda CXR (?) motorcycle. He dropped by yesterday and we got to talking, he's already dropped it three different times while playing with the rear brake or whatever, mostly while stopped. Still has the dealer's paper plate on the back. Right side already scuffed up, including brake pedal, muffler, master cylinder and hand grip. Seems clueless that he shouldn't be riding a bike, better stick to a cage. God help him.

GrittyTacoman · Post by **GrittyTacoman** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:35 am

Tenchi wrote:He just finished his motorcycle safety course three weeks ago, went out and bought himself a new 250 Honda CXR (?) motorcycle. He dropped by yesterday and we got to talking, he's already dropped it three different times while playing with the rear brake or whatever, mostly while stopped. Still has the dealer's paper plate on the back. Right side already scuffed up, including brake pedal, muffler, master cylinder and hand grip. Seems clueless that he shouldn't be riding a bike, better stick to a cage. God help him.

No kidding! Better freeze him in carbon like Han Solo. Safer for all of us. Maybe freeze him at the exact instant that he drops the bike a fourth time. Then prop it up in the corner of the MSF class as a warning.

boredgamelad · Post by **boredgamelad** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:46 am

1. Which model and displacement (CCs) scooter was crashed? Color?

2009, 150 CC Pamplona

2. Was the crash due to rider error? What time of day did it occur?

It was totally my fault, around 5 PM. Took the bike to my work to show it to some coworkers, sort of playfully drove past them in the parking lot and grabbed the brakes hard instead of squeezing and coming to a proper stop. I basically did a minor stoppie and then I fell off to one side as my right foot left the scoot, but thankfully kept everything except my right knee from hitting the ground. I still consider it a crash, though, since I lost control.

3. Could the crash have been avoided? What will you do differently next time?

Yes, absolutely. Don't grab, squeeze! Don't grab, squeeze! Also, don't forget that your scooter is not a toy to show off with.

4. Was the rider injured? What type of protective gear or clothing was the rider wearing?

My right shoulder is a little sore, I think from wrenching really hard to keep the bike from laying down. Also, my right knee hit the ground pretty hard, but doesn't appear to have been bruised. I was wearing gloves, mesh jacket, boots, and a full face helmet.

5. What was the damage to the scooter?
None

6. Cost of repairs, if any?
0

7. How much (weeks, months, years) riding experience does the rider have? Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither?
...1 week

Permit, no endorsement

8. Had the rider completed the MSF course?
I am scheduled to take it in about 3 weeks.

9. Was the rider the scooter's owner?
Yes

10. How fast was the rider going?
10-15 mph

11. How far was the rider from home?
~12 miles, in a parking lot

Basically, I am dumb, and was showing off and not paying attention to what I was doing. I won't be doing that again. On a positive note, I spent most of the day on my scoot and had no problems with anything else, cagers included. It was a great day.

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:38 pm

Glad you and your scooter came out of it OK boredgamelad. FWIW I consider small mishaps like that (where no one was seriouly hurt) a really valuable learning tool. Nothing wakes you up to how quickly and easily things can go wrong like a small taste of it. Serves to make you a better rider in a way reading about it in a book never could. BTW I'm impressed to hear you saying "squeeze not grab" before you've even taken the MSF course! I sure didn't know anything about that beforehand.

bluebuddygirl · Post by **bluebuddygirl** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:19 pm

boredgamelad wrote:Yes, absolutely. Don't grab, squeeze! Don't grab, squeeze! Also, don't forget that your scooter is not a toy to show off with.

Basically, I am dumb, and was showing off and not paying attention to what I was doing. I won't be doing that again. On a positive note, I spent most of the day on my scoot and had no problems with anything else, cagers included. It was a great day.

I am guessing that this could've happened to a lot of us in our first few weeks of bliss of owning our first scoot. Glad you are ok.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:37 pm

Well, you certainly get bonus points for your candor in posting this experience. Glad you came through it okay and I'm sure you learned from it. Now take that MSF course and become a safe rider. And enjoy that scooter - summer is here!

Ressikan · Post by **Ressikan** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:56 pm

Years ago an old crusty Harley rider I worked with told me, "There's only two kinds of riders out there, the ones that have fallen off and the ones that are gonna fall off."

Well, I fell off today. To make a long story short, wet pavement+stopping fast=broken collar bone.

But that wasn't even the worst part, it was during my riders test at the BMV. For those of you that don't know, part of Ohio's BMV test for a motorcycle license is a 'panic stop' test. The pavement on the course wasn't totally wet, just the one spot I started to apply the brakes.

Pepper fared much better than I did, just a couple of scratches.

benmod · Post by **benmod** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 3:58 am

I read all of them - got the flu with nothing to do. Here's the lowdown:

Top Trouble Spots

Road hazards: potholes, dips, gravel (and gravel turnouts), oil, rain, leaves, ice, animals, gardeners.
Braking too hard (front tire washout).
Following too close to the car in front of you.
Car turns, pulls out in front of you.
Rear ends, due to a) not being seen b) tailgating
Turning too sharply for speed.
Not seen (backed into, T-boned).
Braking and turning.
Overestimating turning radius.
Assuming cars care that you have the right of way.
Assuming cars don't run red lights.
Assuming s/he sees you.

Honorable Mentions

Black tire blowout.
Falling asleep. Really?

Notable Quotes

"I assumed she saw me"
"A car decided to change lanes just as I was passing them"
"The driver failed to yield"
"I actually made eye contact with the driver (at least I thought I did)"

Take the Motorcycle Safety Foundation course.
Read "Proficient Motorcycling"

By far, gravel, sand, oil are the main culprits. Many of the accounts are a combination of errors. One simple tenet that can serve you well (and was mentioned by at least one commenter) is assume that you are invisible. That is, don't assume anyone sees you. Don't assume that other drivers see you and know that you have the right of way. Don't assume that they see you, have the right of way, and will not break the law anyway.

And DO assume that other drivers will do exactly the wrong things at the worst times. One commenter said he could have avoided his accident if he had been riding especially defensively. If you're not riding especially defensively all the time, you're going to be posting to this thread again.

beastmaster · Post by **beastmaster** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:53 am

very nice summary, you should get the flu more often!

Post by **jmazza** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:08 am

Sucks to have to pull this thread from page 4 but here goes... my first crash was today.

1. Which model and displacement (CCs) scooter was crashed? Color?

Italia 125

2. Was the crash due to rider error? What time of day did it occur?

I say yes, though it happened during an emergency braking maneuver. I feel like I had enough time to make a safe emergency stop, but I grabbed the front brake instead of squeezing (more info below), locked the front brake, and ended up on my left side. Accident happened around 1pm.

3. Could the crash have been avoided? What will you do differently next time?

I knew what to do, and practice emergency stops often, but didn't perform one correctly, so yes. I think it totally could have been avoided. As for what I will do differently that's tough. I've always thought how it's one thing to practice hard stops, etc., but another to actually be in that split second where you need one. I've made some before with better results, so I guess the only honest way to answer this is that I hope I'll squeeze the brake slower rather than grab it as hard as I did.

4. Was the rider injured? What type of protective gear or clothing was the rider wearing?

Pretty significant road rash from the middle of my left forearm to the middle of my left bicep area. Two other smaller spots of road rash (right elbow and left knee). Broken right thumb. VERY sore shoulder and sternum but thankfully not broken. I'm amazed at that fact.

I was wearing a full face helmet, gloves, and riding shoes (and jeans/t-shirt). I've said here before that I've let myself become lax about wearing my riding jacket. I'd be in considerably better shape right now if comfort didn't rule over caution. The gloves (Corazzo Carbones which I haven't been so hot about due to the fit) really helped. The knuckle 'armor' on them is scraped up badly and there are tiny tears but my hands feel 100% fine. My helmet has some huge scrapes on the left chin and left face shield area. Injuries would have been MUCH worse without that. I'm actually amazed that I wasn't even cloudy headed and didn't have even the slightest headache. I've gotten hit in rec league ice hockey and had my head hurt more. Scorpion EXO400 helmet FTW. Seriously amazed because I felt my head hit pretty damn hard.

5. What was the damage to the scooter?

I haven't thoroughly inspected it but the headlight/headset is a mess (all the expected cracks in the plastic and the headlight is aiming far to the left). Brake lever sheared down, other scrapes. That's all that is immediately visible.

6. Cost of repairs, if any?

Don't know yet. EDIT: I ended up only replacing the headlight, top headset and headlight ring. Bought everything used here on Modern Buddy for under $200. It's not "good as new" but as they say the scars add character.

7. How much (weeks, months, years) riding experience does the rider have? Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither?

3.5 years/10k miles. Licensed.

8. Had the rider completed the MSF course?

No

9. Was the rider the scooter's owner?

Yes

10. How fast was the rider going?

~50 BPH

11. How far was the rider from home?

2-3 miles

Here's the story:

I had just left a difficult work meeting that had lasted 2 hours and I just wanted to get home. I've mentioned recently that the times I have had close calls are when I've felt like my mind was wandering and this was one of those times. I was replaying the conversations from the meeting in my head and even thought about pulling over. I saw a woman in an SUV in front of me on her phone and so I kept extra space. I zoned out for the briefest of seconds and suddenly saw her and 2 other cars in front of her brake hard and swerve left and right. I had a big enough space cushion but because I was snapped out of zoning out it felt much more sudden than other times I've had this happen. I grabbed both brakes too hard and the font locked up and the handlebars turned. I went down on my left side. I remember clear as day my head hitting the asphalt and then either sliding/rolling or a combination (I was told I rolled a few times). I didn't lose consciousness but was very dazed. My adrenaline made me push myself to the median where there was a college-age guy who told me to lie down and he called 911. The lady in front of me pulled around and ran over to help - she felt really bad.

The cops and paramedics arrived and by that time I was sitting up and had my helmet off (not smart but I didn't feel neck pain and was not exactly thinking clearly). I could see bad road rash on my left arm and felt like I might have broken bones.

They drove me into the driveway of the hospital in front of which this happened (though I'm sure they won't discount the ambulance ride!) where they X-Rayed my shoulder (negative) and gave me a nice shot for pain and then cleaned out the road rash. Fun times.

Not one, but two riding jackets in my garage at home. I fully own up to (as I've admitted here before) slacking in wearing them in this heat lately. All things considered this could have been so much worse, and I'm thankful to be able to sit here and write this post.

Moral(s) of the story: Should have worn my jacket and should have trusted my instincts and not ridden with so much on my mind. Geeze, I JUST posted about that yesterday.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:34 am

Glad you're here to tell the tale - and to figure out on your own whatever lessons there are to be learned. Hope you will be on your scoot again sooner rather than later.

jijifer · Post by **jijifer** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:43 am

such a bummer! I'm glad you're learning from the mistake and lived to talk about it.

peabody99 · Post by **peabody99** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:54 am

wow sorry to hear this and glad it was not much worse. I know you gave a big reminder about gear and practicing emergency stops, but the big take away for me is the need to understand the seriousness of emotions and distractions. I know I am guilty sometimes too of scooting when distracted.

it has been a long time, but I know a couple times I turned back toward home when I knew something was "off" out on the roads (I got in the cage and now I thinking that is screwed up! I should have gone back to bed.lol ) Of course if you are leaving work that is hard to do as more than anything you want to get the heck out of there after a hard day.

Modern Buddy

Who's Crashed? [Crash Reports]

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Neighbor's friend is a nut....

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