MSF Scooter Specific Basic Rider

lobsterman · Post by **lobsterman** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:15 pm

One of our instructors last weekend is certified to teach six different motorcycle courses, including scooters.

He told me that starting next year there will be a full Basic Rider course specifically for scooters. It will be the same as the current Basic Rider class (one evening classroom, two 5 hour range days) with the same test at the end for your endorsement.

The only difference will be the removal of all the "friction zone" and other shifting specific parts, and the course will use scooters instead of 125cc motorcycles.

I got permission to use my Buddy for the class and generated a lot of questions, particularly from the Harley riders. Both instructors rode it and were impressed by the performance, most notably the braking. I cornered, stopped, swerved, and weaved with the best of them.

I highly recommend taking the MSF Basic Rider, whether on a scooter or the provided bikes. I'm too much of a noob to presume to say I won't ever crash, but I know I am less likely to make a dumb preventable mistake now.

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:05 pm

I know there's an MSF scooter class offered in somse locations now which does not grant a waiver for the DMV riding test. Do you know if this one will?

lobsterman · Post by **lobsterman** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:35 am

The current scooter class is much shorter and with no BMV waiver.

The new class will be the full equivalent of the existing motorcycle Basic Rider course - just scooters instead and complete with BMV waiver test at the end.

MNBuddy · Post by **MNBuddy** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:36 pm

Will the cost be equivalent to the current MSF class for motorcycles? Has this been established?

lobsterman · Post by **lobsterman** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:05 pm

According to my instructor it will be the same, including cost.

Here in Ohio that means $25. Our state wants us to be safe riders and so they subsidize it pretty heavily.

Ajax · Post by **Ajax** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:13 pm

Awesome news.... I might have to take it again

dahuffy · Post by **dahuffy** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:46 pm

Man, it cost me $150.00 here in OKCity and I used my own scooter! That also covered the test waiver.

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:48 pm

dahuffy wrote:Man, it cost me $150.00 here in OKCity and I used my own scooter! That also covered the test waiver.

Over $200 in CA. There really need to be more incentives to take the course.

dahuffy · Post by **dahuffy** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:59 pm

I totally agree!!!

lobsterman · Post by **lobsterman** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 9:01 pm

ericalm,

You said:

Over $200 in CA. There really need to be more incentives to take the course.

Out of curisoity, how much has your accident cost you? Include money, time, and pain.

I'm not trying to make you feel bad or blame/fault you. I'm just saying a single accident is plenty of incentive to pay $200 to learn how to be safer and maybe have less accidents. Most of us have spent at least that much on safety gear (helmets, gloves, jackets etc.)

It can't be cheap to run the course. There's about 14 hours or more total course time between classroom and range, and they provide a bike and helmet for you to use and two knowledgeable instructors. And a test waiver for the BMV if you pass the range test (granted passing is not a given).

I do agree though that more states should follow the Ohio lead on this and subsidize the MSF heavily.

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 9:23 pm

lobsterman wrote:ericalm,

You said:
Over $200 in CA. There really need to be more incentives to take the course.
Out of curisoity, how much has your accident cost you? Include money, time, and pain.

I'm not trying to make you feel bad or blame/fault you. I'm just saying a single accident is plenty of incentive to pay $200 to learn how to be safer and maybe have less accidents. Most of us have spent at least that much on safety gear (helmets, gloves, jackets etc.)

This is a good point! I know it's somewhat hypocritical of me to advocate taking the MSF when I myself haven't (which I have shamefully owned up to). It really was due to nothing but procrastination and the "inconvenience" of having to travel halfway across town to take it. Once GatsbyGirl got her Buddy, I put it off again so we could take it together.

What has my accident cost me? In terms of money, it will be less than $200. The driver's insurance has covered EVERYTHING because he was at fault: all my medical expenses; replacement costs (not current, depreciated value!) for my helmet, pants, and laptop; over MSRP for the Buddy but falling a little short of the out the door price. I also spent more to upgrade my helmet when I replaced it.

In other terms, it's cost a lot. The injury was extremely painful and continues to cause a lot of inconvenience. I can't (yet) drive my stick shift car and have just this week been able to take my scoot out for fairly short trips. This mean the wife (GatsbyGirl) has had to cart me around for over a month and take care of many of the simple tasks I've been unable to do (cleaning, bringing trash cans in, all that crap). Worst of all, though, it's causing GatsbyGirl a lot of worry every time I get on the scoot (or even talk about it!).

MNBuddy · Post by **MNBuddy** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:47 am

My wife & I took the MSF course here in MN together. It wasn't cheap ($160 each) but it was very, very worth the money. We both feel way more confident riding our Buddies and we are more aware of all 2 wheel conveyances on the road, especially when we are in our 4 wheel cage.

My wife brought her Buddy to the class and was allowed to take the course and waiver test on it. Once of the instructors was so impressed with the Buddy she said she was going to go buy one for her mother. She admitted that prior to seeing the Buddy in action she was anti scooter but Jean's pink Buddy changed her mind.

I took the class on one of the supplied cycles and actually appreciated learning some about all the shifting and throttle control issues. Actually, all of that fuss made me appreciate the joy of riding my Buddy even more.

Prior to the course my wife had been in a minor crash because she wasn't comfortable with leaning the scooter to turn. She found that taking the course restored a lot of her confidence and reduced the anxiety that she had developed after her crashette.

The skills and information we learned at the class were totally worth the cost.

gt1000 · Post by **gt1000** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:35 am

I'm a big advocate of the MSF program but it's not perfect. Case in point, why is Ohio the only state enlightened enough to subsidize the class? Don't get me wrong, I paid $190 and consider that price a bargain, but why should those riders who can't afford the class be denied the benefits? The US has always treated driver's ed ass-backwards. Instead of teaching the skills necessary to drive or ride safely at speed, they teach you how to park or make a "K" turn. If you want to learn real driver's skills, like on a track, you need to pay and pay big. I've been riding on and off for well over 30 years. I'm experienced but no expert. I learned a lot at the MSF class I took last summer and so did the 3 or 4 other "born-again" riders in my class. If you can afford it, take the class.

If you can't, find a copy of Hough's "Proficient Motorcycling" and read it cover to cover. Then practice the drills he explains in the book. When you have a chance, visit your local MSF class when they're out on the range and observe. Watch what they do and the speeds at which they do it. And, if you know someone who's taken the class, find the time to ride with them. You'll miss out on the expert teachers and the peer interaction when you do it this way but you'll still hone your skills.

Above all, keep practicing. Practice your braking and low speed turns in parking lots. Practice your swerving skills whenever you're alone on the road. And when the opportunity comes, take the class and use the bikes they provide (learn to shift, even if you swear you'll never shift again). Even if you've been riding for years. My plan now is to take more advanced classes at least once a year.

The MSF class will not keep you safe from all the idiots out there, just like bigger bulbs or more lights won't necessarily mean the cagers will see you any better. It's up to you to save yourself by being the best rider you can possibly be. And even then, sometimes crap just happens and your time is up. That's why we have helmets, leather, insurance, etc., etc. Don't ever think you're safe, whether you're on a scooter or in a Hummer. That meteorite just might have your name on it.