Economic Discussion, Scooter Boom!

[MikieTaps]

So, as we all know, there is a pretty significant scooter boom going on right now. There are lots of factors that have led to this including increasing gas prices. We are currently in a “recession” or at least on the slowdown portion of the “cycle”. The continuously sliding housing market, increasingly difficult and volatile credit markets, and shaky at best job markets, are leading to reduced consumer availability of disposable income. My question, or proposed discussion topic… If our current economy were different… If we were in the growth cycle, jobs were up, housing was up, cash was more easily accessible etc… but still with increasing gas prices, would we still be seeing a scooter boom? Or would people be just as willing to throw money into their gas tanks. I don’t want this to be a topic about why, who bought their scooter for what reason. I am posing this as an economics question, where many things are assumed, and the scooter is a substitute product to gasoline and cages.

[jmazza]

Interesting question Mikie, and I finally believe you are an accountant!

As a musician, I'll offer my very important opinions, based on having slept through MAYBE one econ class in college.

It's an interesting topic. I have had more than a few people who are struggling (losing jobs, getting new ones that are farther away, etc) ask me very detailed questions about my scooter. They are looking at ditching a car and getting the scooter to save money. That might work. And that is definitely driven by the combo effect of all the factors going on in the economy. We're one of the hardest hit housing markets down here, and though it's showing signs of leveling (mostly because prices have gotten to the point where "normal" people can start to buy in and hope to ride out the last bit of the trough of this wave), it's a major factor in everyone's day to day life in South Florida.

But then I hear about other people buying scooters as a third vehicle to save money, which we know doesn't really work. I think that is just classic "spend money to save money" American way and probably does have something to do with the combined factors (desperate times call for desperate measures) but would likely also happen with just the gas prices- buy a scooter and stick it to the man.

But then I get to thinking... "just shut up 'n play yer guitar."

Good question though!

[ericalm]

I think we would not have a scooter boom under that hypothetical scenario, at least nothing like what we're seeing now. Look at past consumer behavior: Gas prices were still climbing (though not as fast) the entire time the SUV boom was happening. Gas prices spiked several times in '07, but that didn't set off a mad rush for scooters.

If gas plateaued at $5/gal. (regular) but the economy as a whole was stronger, I think we might see a different kind of scooter boom that's much more heavily tilted towards more inexpensive Chinese scooters. At that point, gas prices would have the greatest impact on low-income workers. (And prices for all scooters would be going up due to transportation costs, as they have in the past year.)

As with many things, I think perception plays a big part here. The individuals buying scooters now aren't doing so because they are currently in a poor financial state—they're anticipating things getting worse.

[sotied]

Until the pain is pervasive, people's habits don't change across the board.

The 'spend money to save money' action is probably what we're going through now. Not that things aren't crappy, but they could be a lot worse.

Gas is back down to $3.81.
The latest movies are setting RECORD sales figures (TV is already paid for so why waste money on a movie if funds are so tight?)
iPhones are being manufactured at a rate of 800,000 a week (this could be slightly off as it was on macrumors.com)
We still pay athletes millions and millions to entertain us
and the dining industry hasn't been decimated by the so-called recession, stagflation or whatever you call it.

Until gas is $10 a gallon, bread is $5 and people stop going out to eat, going to the movies, paying for cable TV and stop buying gadgets, we're nowhere near the point where scooters are a real solution to a financial situation.

*Grain of salt clause: there are some people who REPLACE a vehicle with a bike or a scooter. They are doing so - for the most part because it does make financial sense. But these people also might have lifestyle desires that create for them a choice between a car or eating out three nights a week. Replace the car with a scooter and you get to keep your meals. Or something similar.

Jeff

[Racenut]

The scooter boom is solely due to gas prices. If the economy was better, it would be even moreso because more people would have disposable income to just go get a scooter.

Now we all know it's hard to make the math work out just on gas. But some people are just bad at math, so they get a scooter and think they're saving money after a week or two haha.

Then you have the fact that it's suddenly becoming "cool" to save gas. People are ditching the SUV's for smaller cars and now scooters. It's seen as cool and smart to drive something thrifty.

Anyway.. that's my .02

[ericalm]

Gas is back down to $3.81.

Still around $4-$4.50 here. A month ago you could buy a used Land Rover in L.A. for a couple grand. People were dumping them. Wonder if that's still the case.

[jmazza]

Then you have the fact that it's suddenly becoming "cool" to save gas. People are ditching the SUV's for smaller cars and now scooters. It's seen as cool and smart to drive something thrifty.

That's definitely part of it too. It's like that old Pepsi commercial where P. Diddy (who was probably Puff Daddy at the time) hitches a ride in a Pepsi truck and then Carson Daly buys one to be cool.

[sobo_buddy]

I would say it may be partially driven by a combination of overcrowding on inefficient public transportation systems, high fuel costs, and high parking costs, but this is only true for some locations.

[Elm Creek Smith]

Gas is down to $3.54 here. I bought my Budd before the great "gas crisis" of 2008.

What I find interesting is that the same people who say drilling here, drilling now won't have an impact on gas prices for years are the same people who, ten years ago, were blocking drilling here, drilling then and building sufficient refining capacity.

Sorry, but not naming names is as close as I get to apolitical.

ECS

[k1dude]

Without $4+ per gallon gas, there would be no scooter boom IMHO. $4 seemed to be the transition point.

In my case, I've ALWAYS wanted a scooter. But I never got one because of 'safety' concerns. But when gas hit $4/gal, I could now justify the purchase for 'economic' reasons. But I know and my wife knows it was just an excuse to finally buy what I've always wanted.

My justification also included 'insurance' against even higher gas prices. I suspect we may be in a current lull with gas prices. If I were a betting man, I'd bet they will be even higher at this time next year. If gas prices hit $5 or $6 per gallon, I will seem like a genius for getting a scooter and my friends will finally stop abusing me for buying one.

[sradwick]

Without $4+ per gallon gas, there would be no scooter boom IMHO. $4 seemed to be the transition point.

In my case, I've ALWAYS wanted a scooter. But I never got one because of 'safety' concerns. But when gas hit $4/gal, I could now justify the purchase for 'economic' reasons. But I know and my wife knows it was just an excuse to finally buy what I've always wanted.

My justification also included 'insurance' against even higher gas prices. I suspect we may be in a current lull with gas prices. If I were a betting man, I'd bet they will be even higher at this time next year. If gas prices hit $5 or $6 per gallon, I will seem like a genius for getting a scooter and my friends will finally stop abusing me for buying one.

+1

[standup]

I've always liked scooters, so scooter math told me I can buy one pretty cheap if it saves me $70/$80 a month on gas.

For me it's an exercise in rationalizing fun.

[sobo_buddy]

I should add that though I am a new owner, I simply wanted one and was finally in a position to put 1 of our cars on the market and make the move to get one. I have wanted one since I rode one in 2005. Three years later with a wedding and major renovations over disposable cash flow allowed for it

[Cheshire]

For me, gas has little to do with wanting a scooter. I was injured a while back bicycling and miss being on two wheels. Long story short, I won't be pedalling on roads any time soon, but driving is booooring.
I tried the gas-saver argument when I broke the idea to my parents/siblings (wouldn't be right to buy a scoot without talking to them) and they responded a little too quickly that they'd give me money for gas if that was a problem. (So much for that argument.) I've since gotten them as comfortable as they're going to get with the idea, btw.


My prediction on the gas situation is that this recent price drop is just the calm before the storm. I've noticed a trend of prices climbing slowly for a while, dropping a little, then jumping higher pretty quickly before tapering off...dropping slightly, spiking higher...etc. I think it's just their way of getting us used to higher and higher prices. I'm willing to bet that prices will stay down-ish or climb only slowly until after/near the election.
I've been wrong before, though. I was expecting $5/gallon by last winter.

[Eddy Merckx]

There would not be as big a scooter up tick for sure, but those who live in more urban areas including the inner ring suburbs would see a rise in scooter use among the younger folk ... meaning those thirty-five and younger, why do I believe this you say? because scooter people are trend setters and there are a few of us folk in our mid-youth (50 years old give or take) that support the superior intellect of this demographic and that will insure that the scooter world will continue to expand its reach to the betterment of the world in general, more specifically the betterment of our own little old America.... well thats what I believe anyway........

As gas prices will be around $6.00 a gallon or more in about one to three years from now, and that will force the prices of urban and inner ring housing to go up and make the housing prices in the outer suburbs to continue to fall do to the cost just to get there and back, let alone the cost to heat or cool those absurdly large track mansions, this will be why the great American cities will see a renaissance and the outer burbs will be where the lower income folk will be living, this will happen, and about twenty to forty years from now will be how the trend will be going........

[enzomatic]

answer question then opinion
My scooter is making me loose money, I own a car but don't use it, haven't really used it for years, I ride one of my bikes or take the bus as much as possible. Now I scoot everywhere, I'm spending money on gas and getting out of shape. Though this is true my getting a buddy is slightly because of the gas prices, my friend was in need of a new car, I convinced her to get a scooter instead, she bought a buddy with my recommendation, after riding for a few months though she wanted a moto so bought a ninja, I took the budd off her for $2k w/ 400 miles on it. I was going to buy an old C70 passport of someone but couldn't pass up the 2k deal (she was also the 5th or 6th person I convinced to buy a scoot before I even had one). In summation, I'd probably have more money if I didn't have the scoot but I've wanted one for over 10 years so I'm happy with it.

OIL prices, it's the market only, we aren't really running low yet, if that were so then the companies wouldn't be having record profits because it would be costing them so much to meet demand. With that, the higher cost is making it more feasible to perform more cost/energy intensive forms of extraction such as extracting oil from the sludge in canada or from rocks here in the US. From this point, because it's market driven, they'll probably drop the cost again soon (but not to previous levels) and get ppl buying like crazy again. Remember in 1979 Volvo came out with a car that could run off of diesel, ethanol, and gasoline, that got 70mpg but was scrapped because the embargo ended and ppl didn't really care about gas prices anymore.

[BeetleGoose]

I'm going to add my 27 cents to this ($0.02 adjusted for inflation).

Where to begin, where to begin? Many great points so I'll just highlight what I agree with.

First, I agree with Eric that given MikieTaps' hypothetical situation, with more disposable income, people would pay more at the pump. Or IMO, get a hybrid car/van/suv. Unfortunately, in the U.S. of A right now, alot of people are still addicted to more of everything: more horsepower, more meat, larger house, etc. so if the economy was still strong, scooters would not be in a boom. And yes, the poor folk who could do with buying scooters are the ones left out because they don't have disposable income to do so.

Sotied (Jeff) makes a valid point about how certain industries are still making bank (e.g. movies, gadgetry), and I also believe it will take a lot more than $4/gallon to get alot of people looking for anything other than 4-wheel transport.

As with many things, I think perception plays a big part here. The individuals buying scooters now aren't doing so because they are currently in a poor financial state—they're anticipating things getting worse.

If I were a betting man, I'd bet they will be even higher at this time next year. If gas prices hit $5 or $6 per gallon, I will seem like a genius for getting a scooter and my friends will finally stop abusing me for buying one.

I'm one of those people anticipating things getting worse. Why? Primarily because 4 years ago, when I used to work for this company who was trying to invest in alternative fuels, during one of our technology conferences, one of our scientists said, "We are running out of oil." That opening line pretty much summed up the fact that we have an industry built on something that will eventually dry up. So a seed was eventually planted in my head that said I needed to look at the big picture. Stupid me, I bought an SUV a year later. And 1 1/2 years after that, I traded in the SUV for a more mileage friendly car, and now a scooter. But that's only half of the reason. I'm not an old school scooter enthusiast unlike many here, but what I've always wanted since childhood (back in the 70's) was a 2-wheel transport. Just recently, I've decided that for me, a scooter is a better investment and more enjoyable than a motorcycle. If the economy is as in the hypothetical, I would still be purchasing a scooter.

[gymnation]

Gas...so...cheap. Must...get...rid of scooter.
Hey! It's all over. No oil crisis. No Global Climate Change. Yippeee! It was all a bad dream....I can drive my own Greyhound bus to work now!

[PamplonaLady]

I still love my SUV - sorry, but it is true. I always wanted an Explorer from the first time I saw one. Finally was able to get a 1999 Eddie Bauer edition, all the bells and whistles. It is now 9-10 years old, paid for, and reliable transportation. Pulled a travel trailer 10,000 miles summer of 2003. I have no plans of parting with it until I absolutely have to. My 16 y/o has designs on it, so I don't see it leaving the family for many years to come. HOWEVER - the $65 it takes to fill the tank is painful.

In comes the Buddy. I told myself I bought it to save money on gas, but the real reason is that it looked like it would be fun to ride. And I was right. I followed a man on my way to work back in December who was on a scooter. The whole way I was thinking that I could drive one of those the 20 miles to work and save TONS on money on gas. Wish I had bought my scooter back in December! Finally got one in May and crashed it on my second ride. Just got the replacement yesterday and yes, I will be taking the MSF class this time and still think I will save money riding the scooter, and have more fun in the process.

[illnoise]

Historically, going back to the Salisbury and Doodle Bug days, scooter sales take off when gas prices rise quickly or cross a milestone. If you look through popular mechanics from the 30s, you'll see scooter ads promising 100 miles per gallon. In times of economic prosperity, they squeak by with sales to college kids and bohemians, but the real booms come when the economy is iffy.

Bb.

[jmazza]

In comes the Buddy. I told myself I bought it to save money on gas, but the real reason is that it looked like it would be fun to ride. And I was right. I followed a man on my way to work back in December who was on a scooter. The whole way I was thinking that I could drive one of those the 20 miles to work and save TONS on money on gas. Wish I had bought my scooter back in December! Finally got one in May and crashed it on my second ride. Just got the replacement yesterday and yes, I will be taking the MSF class this time and still think I will save money riding the scooter, and have more fun in the process.

I don't think this will bust your bubble very much because it sounds like, like most of us, you bought your scooter as much because you really wanted one as you did to save money. But it's tough to save much money when adding a scooter to a list of current vehicles. At least tough to do it in a quick manner.

Illnoise posted something on his blog about this entitled Do The Scooter Math that points out:

If you’re considering a scooter in place of a second car, or to entirely replace your decaying gas-guzzling SUV, then it probably is [saving you money]. But if you’re thinking of adding a scooter to your existing fleet, please do the math. calculate how much gas you use in a year. calculate the REAL mileage of your car, and the REAL mileage of your proposed scooter, and what percentage of the time you’ll really be using the scooter. Calculate the title and tax fees for the scooter, and financing (if any) and insurance, safety gear, and maintenance. Chances are, your helmet, jacket, and topbox will cost more than than the extra dollar per gallon you’d spend on gas if you just kept driving your car.

That quote comes after talking some real numbers about how much we actually pay in gas on average. There was another great (re)post on his blog entitled More MPG math that is worth a read too.

There's a few more resources on the Internet for calculating actual savings, including something I think MSN.com did that I can't put my fingers on right now. Here's one about the total cost of ownership of a Vespa LX150.

Like I said, very few (if any) of us here bought our scooters SOLELY to save money so it's somewhat of a moot point, but if we're talking scooternomics, it's worth nothing that they don't save us as much as we'd like to think in many cases.

[illnoise]

Here's a new story from today. Asian scooter prices are expected to rise soon because of increasing manufacturing costs (supplies/labor). So even the cheapo Chinese stuff might not be so attractively priced next year:

http://2strokebuzz.com/i/scooter-china-pricing.pdf

[farrellcollie]

I think a lesser scooter boom might have happened even if the economy were not so bad right now. Hybrid cars were already becoming more popular and scooters are another - more fun- way to reduce the use of resources. So I like to think that the environmental impact plays into the boom.

[ericalm]

I think a lesser scooter boom might have happened even if the economy were not so bad right now. Hybrid cars were already becoming more popular and scooters are another - more fun- way to reduce the use of resources. So I like to think that the environmental impact plays into the boom.

I agree and think this may keep scooter sales modestly higher once the boom dies.

On the flipside, over the next 2-3 years, car buyers are going to have many more environmental options. We'll have hybrid scooters by then (Vespa/Piaggios) and maybe electric scooters that cost less than $10k.

I'll say this much: I'm certainly not hoping the economy will suck just because it's good for scooter sales!

[sunshinen]

But then I hear about other people buying scooters as a third vehicle to save money, which we know doesn't really work.

Like many green/energy-saving alternatives, it's a long-haul investment. When considering if it will save $$, you have to consider several individual factors (usage, parking fees, insurance, etc.). I did finally give up my car, but even with it, I would have paid off the investment in the scooter (including gear and other incidental costs) next year. Everything from then on would be savings. Having sold my car, I now have "saved" (in the difference from the sale of car and what the scooter still had left to pay for itself) several $K to fund my taxi and car rental fund when needed. =)

[k1dude]

But then I hear about other people buying scooters as a third vehicle to save money, which we know doesn't really work.

Like many green/energy-saving alternatives, it's a long-haul investment. When considering if it will save $$, you have to consider several individual factors (usage, parking fees, insurance, etc.). I did finally give up my car, but even with it, I would have paid off the investment in the scooter (including gear and other incidental costs) next year. Everything from then on would be savings. Having sold my car, I now have "saved" (in the difference from the sale of car and what the scooter still had left to pay for itself) several $K to fund my taxi and car rental fund when needed. =)

I agree. I HAVE run the numbers and they DO work. It will probably take me 2 to 3 years to break even, but that is easily worth the purchase. After that it will all be gravy. It's not like solar power on a house that takes over 10 years to break even. And the 10+ years on solar even includes the rebates and tax breaks.

[bunny]

and the dining industry hasn't been decimated by the so-called recession, stagflation or whatever you call it.

Um...YES. It has been decimated. The corporation that owns Bennigan's, Steak & Ale, The Ponderosa and other chains has filed bankruptcy. It was all over the news last week. Over 400 restaurants total, shut down and gone.

Other chains are either scaling down (read: closing locations) or cutting hours.

It's happening, just not to the consumer's eye yet...

[sunshinen]

I agree with others that there are several factors that would feed a scooter trend even w/o the budget pinch:

• Environmental concerns
  Europefiles: increased exposure to scooters through travel to big scooter places like Europe
  Cool factor: small & efficient is the new black
  Happy factor: people looking to get more enjoyment out of life; for some its simply the fun factor — for others, it's a whole lifestyle switch to relax and live in the moment
  Parking and traffic hassles and fees
  Simple baulking at the cost of gas, even if it is not a pinch on monthly budget.
  The "latte" factor: people looking for ways to save money simply because they're thrifty and want to save more.

That said, I think the month-to-month pinch definitely seems to have fed a large part of this year's particularly large boom. People not only want to spend less, they have to spend less because everyday things are costing more. Just yesterday, I was appalled at the cost of a bag of chips. When did it get to be almost $3.79 for a bag of tortilla chips???

[Racenut]

Um...YES. It has been decimated. The corporation that owns Bennigan's, Steak & Ale, The Ponderosa and other chains has filed bankruptcy. It was all over the news last week. Over 400 restaurants total, shut down and gone.

That's one company, and may have been on shaky ground to start with. I know that if I try to go out on a Fri or Saturday night, I still have to wait for a table at most decent places around here. I'm sure they're seeing a decline in business, most places are, but in reality what most places are seeing is a return to more normal and reasonable spending habits.

IMO, things have been so good for so long, that many people have forgotten how to budget and that it's normal to have to consider what things cost before buying.

[sotied]

and the dining industry hasn't been decimated by the so-called recession, stagflation or whatever you call it.

Um...YES. It has been decimated. The corporation that owns Bennigan's, Steak & Ale, The Ponderosa and other chains has filed bankruptcy. It was all over the news last week. Over 400 restaurants total, shut down and gone.

Other chains are either scaling down (read: closing locations) or cutting hours.

It's happening, just not to the consumer's eye yet...

Maybe we're not seeing all of that yet in Boston. Could be that we have so many colleges and kids with disposable income.

Could also be that we're a technology center and people with the Web 2.0 money are here.

I do know that houses are taking forever to sell, but restaurants around here are doing well. Haven't seen an empty storefront yet. But we don't have many Bennigan type places. And the only Fridays in the region closed about six years ago.

But sushi joints are opening up like mad. We've got a bunch of BBQ places now and a whole ton of ready to serve meal places.

*OT a tiny bit* I didn't buy my scooter for financial reasons. Got it because of trips to Eurpope that had instilled a desire to have a scooter. And because scooterists command respect. Even those on dark pink buddies.

Jeff

[enzomatic]

IMO, things have been so good for so long, that many people have forgotten how to budget and that it's normal to have to consider what things cost before buying.

I agree here, there seems to be a delay in the market, people aren't going to completely change their lifestyles until they have to. Even people that don't make that much money until recently have been buying nicer cars, lots of gadgets like laptops and nice cell phones, designer clothes. They've been mainly doing this with loans or credit cards, there will be a lag behind the market but these things will fall out from under them as well. You know that moment when you realize that the stuff they talk about on the news is actually affecting you.

[sunbunny]

Well I bought a scooter 2 weeks ago simply because I wanted one. Yes I could argue to my husband that it gets good gas mileage, that it was a good price- great deal lower than new(bought used 07 rattler), but really I thought it would be fun, and if it saved me $ at some point then great. I also did it because he has a dirt bike and you have to keep the toys even! The cost of insurance for my family (son 17) to ride it is cheep compared to the other cars we own. With my family, OPEC loves us anyways...4 cars, boat, rv... so if I can save alittle gas money with the scooter and have fun, its worth it.
Since my purchase several people said it was smart (and are thinking of getting one) others thought I'm asking for a death wish...
Life is too short so enjoy it while you can!

[RonF]

Not sure if this was mentioned before. One of the factors that I considered before buying my scooter was that my car has 80,000 miles on it and my wife's has over 90,000. They're both starting to need more maintenance than before and will need new tires. I don't want to get rid of either of them, but I'd putting 95% of the miles I drive on the scooter not only saves gas costs but also cuts down on shop costs on the cars.

Scooter shop costs aren't cheep, but I can do most of the basic maintenance myself, so that will help.

Plus it's fun to go places on the weekend with my wife.

[ericalm]

Maybe we're not seeing all of that yet in Boston. Could be that we have so many colleges and kids with disposable income.

Could also be that we're a technology center and people with the Web 2.0 money are here.

I do know that houses are taking forever to sell, but restaurants around here are doing well. Haven't seen an empty storefront yet. But we don't have many Bennigan type places. And the only Fridays in the region closed about six years ago.

How about Starbucks closing 600 stores?

The facts that the economy has slowed, that unemployment is up, inflation is up, food prices are ridiculous, consumer confidence is down, and that most sectors are hurting right now are pretty much undeniable. Sure, there are regional variations—some areas are actually doing quite well right now. There may be 4-dollar-sign restaurants opening weekly around here but the economy is still in the crapper, regardless of whether economists want to label it a "recession."

IMO, things have been so good for so long, that many people have forgotten how to budget and that it's normal to have to consider what things cost before buying.

I agree here, there seems to be a delay in the market, people aren't going to completely change their lifestyles until they have to. Even people that don't make that much money until recently have been buying nicer cars, lots of gadgets like laptops and nice cell phones, designer clothes. They've been mainly doing this with loans or credit cards, there will be a lag behind the market but these things will fall out from under them as well. You know that moment when you realize that the stuff they talk about on the news is actually affecting you.

+1
[soapbox]I have all sorts of half-assed couch sociology theories about the fallout from the '90s economic boom and how it's affected our culture but I'll only bore you with a sliver of my rant. In some ways, our whole country has become a macrocosm of what L.A. has always been: shamelessly aspirational. You can get late model used cars here quite easily because the first thing most people do as soon as they land a job is lease something they can't afford. Six months later, they're selling the car and moving back to wherever. You see enough waiters sell screenplays and become overnight successes that you start to think that it's only a matter of time before you hit it big (without having to work all that hard at it). Seeing college students and dropouts become billionaires overnight created all sorts of false expectations. That entrepreneurial spirit of the '90s now seems like some kind of shortcut to being a bazillionaire. And for some reason, a lot of people seem to think they're entitled to a lifestyle they haven't earned, so are living it at any expense. [/soapbox]

Also: you kids quit playing in my yard! (Yes, I sound awfully old and curmudgeonly.)

[MikieTaps]

Also: you kids quit playing in my yard! (Yes, I sound awfully old and curmudgeonly.)

OT <--- but this is my thread so I dont care...

Look at what the company I am working for is dealing with right now... no playing for you!!!

http://www.realchangenews.org/2008/2008 ... 15n32.html


Basically, long story short... Kids arent allowed to play in our apartment complexs...and now we are being investigated by the Seattle Department of Human Equality... or something along those lines...

[k1dude]

I should also mention there are a couple other important reasons I bought a scooter other than gas prices and always wanting one. I didn't want to contribute anymore to our dependence on foreign oil. I also wanted to do the right thing for the environment. My scooter might have higher emissions than my car, but I'm getting 5 times the mileage out of each gallon of gas. In my mind that's better period.

[rickko]

To quote the USA article today, "While scooters made up about 15% of all street-licensable motorcycles in 2007, their U.S. sales zoomed 66% in the first half of the year, highest of any segment in the motorcycle market, the Motorcycle Industry Council says. Some scooter makers say sales boomed when gas hit $4 a gallon: Piaggio Group Americas, which makes Vespa, saw sales rise 174% in July compared with a year ago."

[sunbunny]

I know that when I was looking for a scooter most of the stores were sold out and people were putting a deposit down for the next one to arrive. Even with the increase of sales in my community, I don't see that many on the road. I don't know if they were sold out due to the college in town or if working individuals bought them. I have seen more motorcycles on the street at times, but we are in our monsoon rains and that may cause people not to ride. I may see more in September when the rains are done.

My son started his 1st day of his senior high school year today and couldn't wait to ride to scooter instead of his truck. Maybe younger people will start to think scooters are cool and change how society views commuting. As a mom with kids in the house, a scooter could not be used as my daily car, unless there is a sidecar or trailer that you can attach to seat more than 2. I'm just glad that my son will use it and is excited to save on gas. He even bought a new golf bag just to get to practice with the scooter.

[redcass]

Great discussion folks! Could you all stop by my fall class and talk with my students?

A bit of economic theory as relates to product demand (in case you're curious, I'm an econ professor): The effect of income changes on product demand has to do with whether a good is considered 'normal' or 'inferior.' It's somewhat strange terminology, but consumers demand more of normal goods when they have more $$$, and less of inferior. Inferior goods are: spam, generic goods, Ramen noodles, etc. So are scooters inferior goods? Probably not for most of us on MB, but probably yes for some of the folks buying cheap 50cc scoots.

So basically, I agree that we wouldn't be seeing the same scooter boom without the current economic slowdown, but the slowdown isn't impacting everyone across the country in the same way. I just hope that enough people buy good scooters and get hooked like we have, so it ends up better for our communities and the environment.

RedCass

[skullmechanic]

I remember my macro-econ professor using Jack Daniels and Ford Broncos examples way back in the early 80's at the U. of Wyoming. I guess times have changed... Scooters and bottled water...?

[BeetleGoose]

Inferior goods are: spam, generic goods, Ramen noodles, etc.

Seriously, SPAM is inferior? Come on, SPAM is awesome... even the Hawaiians use them on sushi! But yeah, I like SPAM!

[newslinky]

Ill admit I am one of those who spent money to save money though I did it with my eyes open taking into account all the cost factors(insurance, equipment, upkeep) into account and figuring the recoup of the investment on a conservative basis being several years. If I could drop the box I would however I am a family man and know that there will be days I simply can not ride the scoot due to weather or other reasons. That was figured into my calculations. Still even with that I have discovered that I love scootering and this is an added value to my purchase not accounted for when firguring if buying was a good idea or not. A lot of value buyers I think are either going to fall in love with it or end up selling and going back to full time boxing.

As far as economics and why there has been a boom I certainly am no economics expert but my mundain observations are thus, It appears to me that economics happens in a trend like manner and not in a sudden change like manner. People are creatures of habit and this is especially true with spending habits. Unless something drastic happens with their income they will continue to spend despite the increase in prices for a while. This causes a lag betweeen the increase in costs and the actual slowdown in buying. Also cost increases in what I can only call a core economic item like oil/gas slowly but surely affects many many other key economic sectors. (i.e. food, travel, retail goods) This adds a further lag to what has to be an inevitable economic slowdown. Companies eventually feel the slowdown and their reaction is to cut costs which often means people losing their jobs. This of course doesn't help things in the consumer spending areas.
Long story short the economic slowdown isn't fast and has been coming over the course of years. No one factor is to blame nor is there an easy fix. The scooter boom as well as the move away from big vehicles to smaller more fuel efficient vehicles in gfeneral has been building and simply IMHO reached a threshold that caused a sudden and dramatic increase in sales. The drop in gas prices has many factors behind it not the least of which is the drop in demand. Despite record profits major oil companies actually did not meet expected numbers (12billion was a dissapointment OMG! ) This drop in demand has again IMO pushed the right buttons with those pesky oil commodities brokers convincing many of them they need to sell thus driving down the price of oil and slowly drivingdown the price of gas. I do not expect the price of gas to drop much further than it has. World demand is simply too high for the price to ever drop down to what we have been fortunate enough to enjoy for so long. I am of the school that expects the price to go up and hit 5 to 6 dollars a gallon by next summer driving season. Time will tell of course. I feel the American economy will recover but it is going to take time. Scootering is getting a bigger foothold and will only grow from here independent of economic trends.
As far as people continuing to spend on entertainment I think that is peope willing to spend money that they should be spending elsewhere to escape from the troubles they are confronted with in our current economic situation. I agree with the statement many of these thigns are being bought on credit and there, like in the scooter boom, will come a point where all of a sudden these areas will see a drastic drop in purchasing and really get hit hard by that sudden change.

OK I have gone on way to long already sorry for the long post and also sorry if my seplling or grammer is bad in parts I didn't proof read the entire thing like I usually try to do.

[charltons]

All points about whether it is really saving money or not aside, when Wednesday rolls around and our checking account is looking puny, I'm glad I can fill up the Buddy for under $4 rather than put $20 in the truck and HOPE to not run out of gas before payday.

It's a nice feeling that I can throw spare change in the pet carrier and have enough for a fill-up. A decent amount of gas in my truck is a few day's groceries.