This is a little disconcerting when starting off while turning at an intersection. I kinda rely on starting power to get the turn initiated...Is it going to stall out?
Am I not correctly feathering the friction zone (I know nothing about how the Bud's clutch works) by gunning it too much? I am not WOT, just trying to go, but I admit to jack-rabbiting (or attempting).
Again, there is plenty of power from 5-45bmph.
I have a drilled gas cap. My oil level is good. And I use the correct grade of fuel, so let's not go there if possible
this used to happen to me, it seems as though it has stopped... I am not sure if it was the modifications, or getting through the break-in period... I usually do get the transmission engaged before I launch on a hard acceleration at a light...
I think it is mostly a matter of getting used to it. When I see the light is about to change I give it a little gas while holding the brakes. This is ONLY when I need to take off in a hurry, not all the time.
It just hit me that there may be a "trick" to engaging that I haven't picked up on, like a little throttle goose until I feel it go. My technique is to just twist on a bit (about half throttle??) and take off. The little hesitation scares me somewhat from time to time. Probably more worry than it is worth. It's a scooter for garsh sakes.
ericalm wrote:This could actually be indicative of some kind of problem. My scoot behaves similarly when the rollers start to flatten, though there are other possibilities—air or fuel circulation, belt slipping, loose throttle, other transmission problem.
I find that if I ramp up acceleration, I can actually accelerate faster, especially when approaching a hill or a long uninterrupted stretch. Between stoplights is something else altogether.
How many miles on it? Have you had the first service?
I'll hit 1000bm today! (will post obligatory odo pic).
This "problem" actually appeared, or I first noticed it, after the break-in. I had the first service at ~500bm.
I notice Tony is sensitive to variations in gas, and I hate to say it but this may be related I guess. This is a low-RPM issue, no sputtering at higher/driving RPMs. I have noticed slightly rough idle, but since this is my only Buddy, I'm not sure if this is normal. Should idle be a smooth "purr" or should it be like I imagine a one-cylinder scooter should be?
What is the "rev limiter" and could it be interfering/activating improperly?
Milehibuddy wrote:I had the same thing happening to mine when I hit around 170 miles after my original purchase. Eric might have it, my Dealer adjusted the belt and changed the rollers then zoom ,zoom, zoom!
I would REALLY appreciate any further info/documentation on your experience.
(side note - they did find small plastic and metal shavings in the oil at my first service. They said it was running normally but I should keep an eye on it. Is this me keeping my eye on it? Should I alert them?)
This could actually be indicative of some kind of problem. My scoot behaves similarly when the rollers start to flatten, though there are other possibilities—air or fuel circulation, belt slipping, loose throttle, other transmission problem.
I find that if I ramp up acceleration, I can actually accelerate faster, especially when approaching a hill or a long uninterrupted stretch. Between stoplights is something else altogether.
How many miles on it? Have you had the first service?
Eric // LA Scooter Meetup Group // Stella 4T // Vespa LX // Vespa LXS // Honda Helix // some, uh, projects…
I had the same thing happening to mine when I hit around 170 miles after my original purchase. Eric might have it, my Dealer adjusted the belt and changed the rollers then zoom ,zoom, zoom!
Could be starving for fuel/air, too, maybe a carb passageway or the pilot jet is clogged up? Different rev ranges use different jets and passageways, it could idle fine, get weird at 1/4 throttle, then be fine when it switches to the main jet.
Bb
2strokebuzz: When news breaks, we put it under a tarp in the garage.
Milehibuddy wrote:I had the same thing happening to mine when I hit around 170 miles after my original purchase. Eric might have it, my Dealer adjusted the belt and changed the rollers then zoom ,zoom, zoom!
I would REALLY appreciate any further info/documentation on your experience.
(side note - they did find small plastic and metal shavings in the oil at my first service. They said it was running normally but I should keep an eye on it. Is this me keeping my eye on it? Should I alert them?)
Quoting this myself to put it at a later time than the reply..
ericalm wrote:This could actually be indicative of some kind of problem. My scoot behaves similarly when the rollers start to flatten, though there are other possibilities—air or fuel circulation, belt slipping, loose throttle, other transmission problem.
I find that if I ramp up acceleration, I can actually accelerate faster, especially when approaching a hill or a long uninterrupted stretch. Between stoplights is something else altogether.
How many miles on it? Have you had the first service?
I'll hit 1000bm today! (will post obligatory odo pic).
This "problem" actually appeared, or I first noticed it, after the break-in. I had the first service at ~500bm.
I notice Tony is sensitive to variations in gas, and I hate to say it but this may be related I guess. This is a low-RPM issue, no sputtering at higher/driving RPMs. I have noticed slightly rough idle, but since this is my only Buddy, I'm not sure if this is normal. Should idle be a smooth "purr" or should it be like I imagine a one-cylinder scooter should be?
What is the "rev limiter" and could it be interfering/activating improperly?
Quoting myself again to put this post in a better time-space location.
Eric - is the above posting/timewarp thing related to "THEM"?
You're describing what sounds like a fouled plug...but you never said how the idle was.
Will it idle, steadily, indefinitely? It should not load up and kill the motor, even after running for several minutes without touching the throttle. This is more prevalent in 2-strokes (loading up) but if you can't keep a good strong idle while sitting, that's something to bring to the attention of the dealer. It might be as simple as turning a mixture screw.
If it was an air flow issue, it would get worse as you give it throttle, not better.
If it was a fuel flow issue, it would sound lean and mean while accelerating, and not get up to top speed.
So I want to think it's either electrical (bad plug?) or a mixture issue. I would check there before looking at transmission issues...but then again, I'd like to know how the idle is, and if you can take out the plug (while the motor is COLD), take a picture and let us see...it should be a nice chocolate brown color.
Ultimately, I'd take it to the dealer and let them deal with it. THat's what the 2 year parts and labor are all about. Your scoot is not operating properly - mine, you twist and it goes...
ScootingInTheRain wrote:(side note - they did find small plastic and metal shavings in the oil at my first service. They said it was running normally but I should keep an eye on it. Is this me keeping my eye on it? Should I alert them?)
Totally normal. One reason to do that first service @ 600 miles.
Eric // LA Scooter Meetup Group // Stella 4T // Vespa LX // Vespa LXS // Honda Helix // some, uh, projects…
ScootingInTheRain wrote:I notice Tony is sensitive to variations in gas, and I hate to say it but this may be related I guess. This is a low-RPM issue, no sputtering at higher/driving RPMs. I have noticed slightly rough idle, but since this is my only Buddy, I'm not sure if this is normal. Should idle be a smooth "purr" or should it be like I imagine a one-cylinder scooter should be?
What is the "rev limiter" and could it be interfering/activating improperly?
Could be bad gas… but I dunno… wouldn't hurt to fill up at a different station next time you're close to E.
Does the Buddy even have a rev limiter?
Eric // LA Scooter Meetup Group // Stella 4T // Vespa LX // Vespa LXS // Honda Helix // some, uh, projects…
I'm still thinking it's a clogged-up or poorly-adjusted carb. Though I'd try a new plug first just because it's easier.
On an old vespa, I'd say "check the mixture screw," (not the idle screw), that often fixes hiccups at idle. But I don't know how that translates to one of these newfangled machines.
Bb.
2strokebuzz: When news breaks, we put it under a tarp in the garage.
The hesitation DISAPPEARED after half a tank of "brand name" gas. I had been using grocery store gas because it is close and cheap, but I'll be using the "brand name" gas near my work from now on as often as possible.
I'm trying not to open Eric Calm's (hehe) can of worms about which gas is better, but I'm sold on which to use.
I have been using brand name gas pretty much the whole time I have had the buddy. I have gone through regular mid grade and premium, and what I have found out is... Windhield Gas from a Premium Pump, at a Brand Name station is best!
WHY RED IS RED!
So it was bad gas? I was going to say check your air filter. Eric, yes the buddy has a rev limiter. There are other CDI's out there that remove it though. I haven't heard any reviews about these things so I don't know how well they work.
Dustin
Prima pipe
UNI filter
125 Main Jet
2000RPM Stall Spring
1500RPM Clutch Springs
Dr. Pulley Variator with 11 Gram Sliders
NCY Front Forks
Prima/NCY 161cc Big Bore kit With 150 Head
KS Power GY6 Performance Springs
NCY Secondary Shieve
djelliott wrote:So it was bad gas? I was going to say check your air filter. Eric, yes the buddy has a rev limiter. There are other CDI's out there that remove it though. I haven't heard any reviews about these things so I don't know how well they work.
Dustin
Yeah, I appears to have been not just one fill up, but systematically poor quality gas as far as I can tell.
I'll be going in for 1500mi checkup soon, I'll have them verify filters, etc.
Thanks everyone!! This thread will be a great reference for future troubleshooting searches.
It still could have been carb or fuel flow issues, adding new gas might have sloshed around debris in the tank, fuel filter, or carb. Or additives in the "brand-name" gas might have helped clean something out.
2strokebuzz: When news breaks, we put it under a tarp in the garage.
illnoise wrote:It still could have been carb or fuel flow issues, adding new gas might have sloshed around debris in the tank, fuel filter, or carb. Or additives in the "brand-name" gas might have helped clean something out.
Is there a quick description of what the "jetting the carb" mod does? I'm moderately knowledgeable about how carburetors work, but don't know about "jetting".
well, the jets are removable brass screws precision-drilled with tiny holes that give you the ability to change the air/fuel mixture at different throttle ranges.
Changing jets can allow more (or less) air and fuel to be sucked through the carb. The carb is typically set up for maximum reliability and fuel efficiency, and any changes will likely negatively impact both.
Changing the jets without modifying the engine in other ways is probably not likely to yield a notable performance increase, you'd probably just waste unburned gas at best, and at worst you could damage your engine. If you don't know what you're doing, it's pointless to mess with it, there's a lot of engineering involved. And you're definitely throwing your warranty out the window.
When you add a performance pipe or modify your engine in other ways, it's often recommended to change your jetting appropriately. "Plug chopping" can give you a good idea if your jetting is correct with a current setup.
Bb.
2strokebuzz: When news breaks, we put it under a tarp in the garage.
But (lost track of my train of thought there) I'm not talking about changing them, just cleaning them. fuel line gunk can get stuck in them (and other carb passages) and screw up your air/fuel flow. That's probably the most common problem with any small carbureted engine, especially one that isn't used frequently. As gas evaporates, the remnants block the carb passages and cause rough starting and running. Riding regularly keeps them clean, otherwise it helps to clean the carb regularly (disassemble and soak/wash with carb cleaner) or to turn off the fuel flow and let all the standing gas run out of the carb before putting the scooter away for extended periods. (sadly, the Buddy doesn't have a fuel tap so that's not an option).
Sometimes, you'll feel sluggishness in a certain throttle range, and sometimes, just gently revving through them or even just riding for a while will blow out the clog, but not always.
Fuel injection eliminates all these problems, it'll be standard on even the cheapest scooters within a few years.
Bb
2strokebuzz: When news breaks, we put it under a tarp in the garage.
its hard to say if it helped or not, as i had several mods done at the same time. I definately have less good gas mileage... but its still over 70 so who cares right?
It will definately help for something else that is in the works...
ScootingInTheRain wrote:This thread will be a great reference for future troubleshooting searches.
Ha, like anyone searches for this stuff. They'll just start a new thread—I guarantee it!
Ha!
I actually meant that it's a good thread for me to reference, I seldom think of other people...
~SITR
BUMP!!
See, Eric, I searched for this because the problem started again. It has been getting a lot worse and happens with any gas I put in.
And, along with the near stalling at take-off, it is running quite a bit louder and horsepower seems to be gradually dropping off (over a period of about three weeks). There was a time just after the original post that Tony had tons of power and was quite zippy, but that was only for about 2 fill-ups. This feels like my '78 Impala with flattened cams and therefore impossible-to-adjust timing. That car did a similar thing.
I'll pull the spark plug soon and give it a look, take a pic, and post.
The dealer sez they do the 2nd oil change at 2000bm, so I'll be going in within a fortnight.
Have you asked the 5 why's? Time to RCCM that problem! (Sorry. I couldn't resist)
My advice is no good since I don't have a lot of experience... but after reading lots, a few things come to mind:
Try a fuel additive to clean out the carb. I've read about something called "sea foam".
A guy at my dealer said that it is no problem to open the carb. up and clean the jets manually (and he would charge me something like $80 to do this). I may try it myself some day when I work up the nerve.
I haven't read anything about timing but I know it is adjustable. I hope someone posts something about that.
I would say that your scooter doesn't like all the rain in Seattle, but Kaos has been driving his all the time down here and doesn't have issues. I personally and too afraid to scoot in the rain but perhaps when I feel more confident I will start.
OK - I checked the vavles last night (using olhogrider's tutorial!) and they seemed to be a little tight. I backed off the gap about 1 turn until the rocker wouldn't rock with the feeler gauge in the gap. Before the adjustment, I had to kinda jam the feeler in there, but it would go in. After the adjustment, not so much jamming and felt right.
RESULT: This morning's ride was OK. It is still doing the sputtering at take-off, but seemed to have just a little bit more power?? Probably psychological.
I'm not sure what else could be causing this except clogged jet, timing issue, or sticky rollers? Would it lug down like this if the rollers weren't returning to the correct position at low RPM? Could my variator return spring be sticking somehow, or maybe just misadjusted? (like it needs a spacer washer?)
Could my clutch be engaging too soon? Is there a way to check this by experiment?
Thanks again for any help. I'll be going to the dealer in a couple weeks, but I like to be armed with info.
