Top Speed on my 125, and other related questions

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MarkTur
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Top Speed on my 125, and other related questions

Post by MarkTur »

I just got my 500 mile tune up yesterday. Seems to be running a little better...but according to my GPS only tops out at 57.9mph. I weigh 212 and I'm about 6'...full face helmet and jacket to create drag...riding with feet on passenger footrests to at least get some angle on my legs to decrease wind resistance.

1. Am I keeping up with the other stock Buddies? (Should I be able to go faster?) I have 525 miles now. Maybe it's not completely broken in? I have only been running it hard for about a week now.

2. From about 4/5 throttle to Wide Open, I hear a motor change, but no speed increase - is that normal?

3. At WOT, and higher speeds, I'm feeling a bit of rumbling in the floorboard...reminds me of bad bearings in a car...but not at all loud...should I be worried?

4. Speedometer: at indicated 35, I'm doing 30mph - GPS, at indicated 65mph, I'm doing 55mph GPS. Can this be corrected?

5. Will bolting on the Prima pipe give me another 10mph? Or do I need to also accompany it with a new jet, rollers, and air intake?

6. What is the max recommended speed for these little tires?

Also - The new light bulb in the headlight, along with the running lights mod makes quite a difference! (no question, just a positive statement :))
Cya!
Mark Turkel
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Re: Top Speed on my 125, and other related questions

Post by jmazza »

MarkTur wrote:I just got my 500 mile tune up yesterday. Seems to be running a little better...but according to my GPS only tops out at 57.9mph. I weigh 212 and I'm about 6'...full face helmet and jacket to create drag...riding with feet on passenger footrests to at least get some angle on my legs to decrease wind resistance.

1. Am I keeping up with the other stock Buddies? (Should I be able to go faster?) I have 525 miles now. Maybe it's not completely broken in? I have only been running it hard for about a week now.

2. From about 4/5 throttle to Wide Open, I hear a motor change, but no speed increase - is that normal?

3. At WOT, and higher speeds, I'm feeling a bit of rumbling in the floorboard...reminds me of bad bearings in a car...but not at all loud...should I be worried?

4. Speedometer: at indicated 35, I'm doing 30mph - GPS, at indicated 65mph, I'm doing 55mph GPS. Can this be corrected?

5. Will bolting on the Prima pipe give me another 10mph? Or do I need to also accompany it with a new jet, rollers, and air intake?

6. What is the max recommended speed for these little tires?

Also - The new light bulb in the headlight, along with the running lights mod makes quite a difference! (no question, just a positive statement :))
1. What was the indicated top speed? I've gotten to 72 indicated and can get there pretty easily, but I'm considerably smaller (shorter and lighter) than you... by over 50 lbs. And yes, at 500 miles it's still opening up I think. Mine just begs to fly to 60mph (indicated) on Federal Hwy each morning now at 2700 miles or so.

2. Maybe so... upper midrange is not a stock Buddy's strong suit and I think that's where rider size has a lot to do with it.

3. Don't know. Many people report vibrations at certain speeds. I don't have them but I seem to be in the minority. Obviously, take it to the shop if you are really worried and have their tech open it up to feel the vibes.

4. Nope. Every Buddy has it. It's probably off by a percentage, not a hard mph amount. The best remedy someone has suggested was to create a new corrected template to go under the speedo needle. Which would be a big pain but very cool.

5. I don't have a pipe but I've not heard of anything that will give 10mph. I've read the pipe alone should give another couple 2-3 mph. Changes in rollers will give EITHER top end or off-the-line speed. YMMV, there are lots of conflicting results on these kinds of mods.

6. Mine are rated for 62 mph but I have the orig. Italia whitewalls which are probably the worst of all Buddy tires. It might say it on the sidewall.

Who's your dealer?? Just curious...
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Post by robtaylor »

about question number 2

the buddy seems to perform best for me between 55-60 bph (buddy units per hour) the rpms seem to rev up higher than that past 60 bph and i think it's just not as efficient.

i have a little over 3000 miles on 2 buddies and my gps reads 58.8 as a maximum speed
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MarkTur
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Post by MarkTur »

robonz23 wrote:about question number 2

the buddy seems to perform best for me between 55-60 bph (buddy units per hour) the rpms seem to rev up higher than that past 60 bph and i think it's just not as efficient.

i have a little over 3000 miles on 2 buddies and my gps reads 58.8 as a maximum speed
Thanks - that's what I wanted to hear...I'm running fine (for a Buddy). It's fast enough, just wanted to know that my max was someone else's max, too.

I'm wondering if a larger jet will make that last little turn on the throttle count? I really don't want to void out my warranty...
Cya!
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Post by coffeekittie »

I'm at around 575 miles on my buddy too, and she doesn't go as fast as I've read others can do. I'm just going to be patient and let her get more miles. Only time I really need speed is when I'm heading down the highway for a temporary job anyway. I've read that adding a small windshield helps - maybe you should look into that?
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Post by Jake »

My friend following me in his VW Rabbit said we were doing 62 mph with maybe 450 miles on the motor.
Oh yeah. I'm about 145 lbs, I had my knees together and I was tucking in.
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Post by MikieTaps »

yeah getting tucked in really tight makes about a 5-7 mph indicated difference on my buddy... and I mean tucked in... my head resting on the handlbars pretty much... :?
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Post by newslinky »

I come in at around 170 maybe a couple pounds less and am at 6' 0". On my Buddy 150 I can hit indicated 70 which I have learned is right at around 62 real mph. That is WOT and with just over 1k miles. I have also read on hear several times that a windshield will increase top speed by a few mph as well as increase gas efficiency slightly so I am waiting eagerly to get mine and highly recommend going after this mod first. Can not really answer your other questions. The Prima pipe I have heard adds more to your acceleration than your top speed and it is on my wish list but will have to wait till after the holidays before I can give it serious consideration.
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Post by MarkTur »

My dealer told me that replacing the rollers with something a couple of ounces lighter will increase the top end...but I'm going to let it get to 1000 units before I do anything...and that something may start with Yamaha and end with Majesty...

;)

I can't stop looking at it...is that wrong?
Cya!
Mark Turkel
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Post by jmazza »

MarkTur wrote:My dealer told me that replacing the rollers with something a couple of ounces lighter will increase the top end...
I'm no scooter mech/tuner but everything I've ever read here has said Lighter rollers = better acceleration/slightly less top end. Heavier = slower accel/slightly higher top end.
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Post by Jrman »

When I got my People 150 I got out the GPS just to see how far off the speedo was. It was almost exactly 15% for all speeds. I compared it with my son's buddy 125 (only about 150 miles on it) and he was reading almost the same speedo readings as me at all speeds.

That being said, I am 220lbs and he is 170lbs. We got on a road just to test our top end and I got to about 58-59 (real speed) and he was closer to 59-60 (real speed). This was not tucked it was normal seating with no windshield.

Your Buddys top end speed sounds real close to what my son has.

Note: I actually created a laminated speed conversion sheet that sits right next to my speedometer that I use for reference.
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Post by Kaos »

MikieTaps wrote:yeah getting tucked in really tight makes about a 5-7 mph indicated difference on my buddy... and I mean tucked in... my head resting on the handlbars pretty much... :?
Yeah, I can reach almost 10mph indicated more by doing a very tight tuck. The best I've hit so far was 83 indicated.
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Post by Kaos »

jmazza wrote:
MarkTur wrote:My dealer told me that replacing the rollers with something a couple of ounces lighter will increase the top end...
I'm no scooter mech/tuner but everything I've ever read here has said Lighter rollers = better acceleration/slightly less top end. Heavier = slower accel/slightly higher top end.
This does not seem to actually be the case, I went with lighter rollers (11g sliders actually) and I got BOTH better acceleration and slightly more top end. The reason is that my Buddy is now more fully in it's power band. Unless you push the Buddy out of it's power band, you won't loose top end as this is really regulated by the length of the variator ramp, which isn't affected by the rollers.
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Post by jmazza »

Kaos wrote:
jmazza wrote:
MarkTur wrote:My dealer told me that replacing the rollers with something a couple of ounces lighter will increase the top end...
I'm no scooter mech/tuner but everything I've ever read here has said Lighter rollers = better acceleration/slightly less top end. Heavier = slower accel/slightly higher top end.
This does not seem to actually be the case, I went with lighter rollers (11g sliders actually) and I got BOTH better acceleration and slightly more top end. The reason is that my Buddy is now more fully in it's power band. Unless you push the Buddy out of it's power band, you won't loose top end as this is really regulated by the length of the variator ramp, which isn't affected by the rollers.
Cool- like I said, I know very very little about CVT transmissions (learning more each day here and on other sites) so I was only going on what I've read here which has always been that you sacrifice a bit of top speed for the quicker acceleration with lighter weight rollers/sliders.

Which ones did you install and did you do anything else at the same time?
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Post by Kaos »

jmazza wrote:
Kaos wrote:
jmazza wrote: I'm no scooter mech/tuner but everything I've ever read here has said Lighter rollers = better acceleration/slightly less top end. Heavier = slower accel/slightly higher top end.
This does not seem to actually be the case, I went with lighter rollers (11g sliders actually) and I got BOTH better acceleration and slightly more top end. The reason is that my Buddy is now more fully in it's power band. Unless you push the Buddy out of it's power band, you won't loose top end as this is really regulated by the length of the variator ramp, which isn't affected by the rollers.
Cool- like I said, I know very very little about CVT transmissions (learning more each day here and on other sites) so I was only going on what I've read here which has always been that you sacrifice a bit of top speed for the quicker acceleration with lighter weight rollers/sliders.

Which ones did you install and did you do anything else at the same time?
I used the Dr Pulley 11g sliders, though I think 10g might actually be closer to the perfect power band. I've been doing my upgrades 1 at a time, because I want an accurate picture of the affects my mods are actually having. :)
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Post by gt1000 »

I used the Dr Pulley 11g sliders, though I think 10g might actually be closer to the perfect power band. I've been doing my upgrades 1 at a time, because I want an accurate picture of the affects my mods are actually having. Smile
Always a wise idea! Not only can you better measure the effectiveness, you can also get an immediate sense of whether or not the new mod needs further fine tuning. If you add a bunch of new stuff all at once and have issues, you can have trouble tracking down the source of the problem.
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Post by djelliott »

I hit 65 today and felt I could go further if needed. A co-worker was behind me and she said she couldn't believe I was doing 65. I had no idea. I was just keeping up with traffic. I do have a windshield and also a Prima exhaust which I noticed opened up my top end a bit. 10 or 11 gram rollers would be next plus ncy 1500 rpm clutch springs.

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Post by Kaos »

gt1000 wrote:
I used the Dr Pulley 11g sliders, though I think 10g might actually be closer to the perfect power band. I've been doing my upgrades 1 at a time, because I want an accurate picture of the affects my mods are actually having. Smile
Always a wise idea! Not only can you better measure the effectiveness, you can also get an immediate sense of whether or not the new mod needs further fine tuning. If you add a bunch of new stuff all at once and have issues, you can have trouble tracking down the source of the problem.
Yep, thats basically why I'm doing this. And I'd like to provide a set of well tested results for other Buddy owners, so we can take some of the guess work out of performance mods.
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Post by MarkTur »

Jrman wrote:When I got my People 150 I got out the GPS just to see how far off the speedo was. It was almost exactly 15% for all speeds. I compared it with my son's buddy 125 (only about 150 miles on it) and he was reading almost the same speedo readings as me at all speeds.

That being said, I am 220lbs and he is 170lbs. We got on a road just to test our top end and I got to about 58-59 (real speed) and he was closer to 59-60 (real speed). This was not tucked it was normal seating with no windshield.

Your Buddys top end speed sounds real close to what my son has.

Note: I actually created a laminated speed conversion sheet that sits right next to my speedometer that I use for reference.
So be nice and post it for the rest of us...I know it's a sliding scale, so it would be helpful. :)
Cya!
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Post by MikieTaps »

Kaos wrote:
gt1000 wrote:
I used the Dr Pulley 11g sliders, though I think 10g might actually be closer to the perfect power band. I've been doing my upgrades 1 at a time, because I want an accurate picture of the affects my mods are actually having. Smile
Always a wise idea! Not only can you better measure the effectiveness, you can also get an immediate sense of whether or not the new mod needs further fine tuning. If you add a bunch of new stuff all at once and have issues, you can have trouble tracking down the source of the problem.
Yep, thats basically why I'm doing this. And I'd like to provide a set of well tested results for other Buddy owners, so we can take some of the guess work out of performance mods.

When are we gonna start working on our "special project" :twisted:
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Post by robtaylor »

i thought the stock rollers were 11grams
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Post by MarkTur »

How big of a job to change the rollers? Is there a walkthrough anywhere? Do you need any specialized tools? And finally, can you point us to the link to buy the rollers?

I get up to about 65 indicated, and I can still open the throttle a bit more, but no change in engine sound or speed...

I don't care for better acceleration, I accelerate at half throttle, and that's just fine anyway...just want a bit more on the highway.
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Post by Kaos »

robonz23 wrote:i thought the stock rollers were 11grams
No, according to the service manual, they're 13g. Though some people have said that when weighed they're really 11.5. So its not a huge change.
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Post by Kaos »

MikieTaps wrote:
Kaos wrote:
gt1000 wrote: Always a wise idea! Not only can you better measure the effectiveness, you can also get an immediate sense of whether or not the new mod needs further fine tuning. If you add a bunch of new stuff all at once and have issues, you can have trouble tracking down the source of the problem.
Yep, thats basically why I'm doing this. And I'd like to provide a set of well tested results for other Buddy owners, so we can take some of the guess work out of performance mods.

When are we gonna start working on our "special project" :twisted:

Just let me know when you're ready. We can start pulling together the parts we need :twisted:
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Post by MikieTaps »

Kaos:

when are we gonna start working on our project? :twisted:

vrooom tsssk


ohhh ha ha ha... we posted at the same time... Yeah as soon as I get my MC i can afford to have my buddy down for a few weeks. :twisted: Its gonna be ridiculous!
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Post by k1dude »

Kaos wrote:
robonz23 wrote:i thought the stock rollers were 11grams
No, according to the service manual, they're 13g. Though some people have said that when weighed they're really 11.5. So its not a huge change.
I thought I read somewhere that just a small change makes a big difference. If that's true, 13g claimed vs 11.5g actual is considered a big difference.
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Post by Kaos »

k1dude wrote:
Kaos wrote:
robonz23 wrote:i thought the stock rollers were 11grams
No, according to the service manual, they're 13g. Though some people have said that when weighed they're really 11.5. So its not a huge change.
I thought I read somewhere that just a small change makes a big difference. If that's true, 13g claimed vs 11.5g actual is considered a big difference.
Yes, 13g to 11g would be a huge difference in weights. I suspect that it is actually the 11.5g that many people here have reported though.
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Post by Jrman »

MarkTur wrote:So be nice and post it for the rest of us...I know it's a sliding scale, so it would be helpful. :)
Per request.. :)
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Post by MikieTaps »

nice, now to get it laser etched into the cover of the spedo :wink:
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Post by ydogi »

great info thanks everyone!

I was just looking for info on the pipes... i work at a buddy dealer and it is a little slow today, and im staring at that pipe on the wall...
it looks nice...

I have buried the spedo on mine i had a friend clock me , i with a tuck
and a tail wind i get about 68 mph
i weigh 160
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Post by djelliott »

MikieTaps wrote:nice, now to get it laser etched into the cover of the spedo :wink:
Enough about etching this into you speedo mikie :D . or do I need to start posting pictures again?

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Post by MikieTaps »

HEY! :P
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Post by HMBscoot »

wow i just had to share this is was out on a ride today and was going down a long slightly curving hill and i got the buddy speedo to go just a little past 80!!!!! i know that you guys prefer to know what top speed is on flat ground and the best i got today was just a little over the 75 mark on the speedo
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A Couple Questions

Post by mtrugger »

Question #1: I keep reading that what I am actually going on my Buddy 125cc and what my speedometer reads can be two different things. Is this true? And if so, WHY? This idea kind of ticks me off.

Question #1.5: I am a bigger gal so I understand that my speed may not be as good as other people's (55 - 60 at an incline and 60 - 65 flat, but I live in Montana, so I don't usually get the flat stuff). What can I do to pump it up a bit (besides loose weight!). Can I just take it into my dealer and tell him I want it to go faster? And what would I ask for specifically since my dealer is a smarmy poophead and I'm pretty confident he'll try to screw me if he can.

Question #2: I have about 850 miles on my scooter. In the last week when I've checked my oil it's been half full on two occasions. I've topped it off and I am going to take it in this week to have the seals and whatnot checked out, but will this be covered by warranty do you think?

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Post by JasonH »

I've read that a higher indicated than true speedometer reading is common in most vehicles. It doesn't make sense to me either, but i've read the reason they do it is because its illegal for the speedometer to read slower than you are going, and I suppose it can never be 100% accurate so they go with quite a bit higher than indicated measurement.


That oil loss is a really bad thing, absolutely demand to have it repaired 100% for free and try and get some extras from him too if hes a doosh. You could probably demand a new scooter with that kind of oil loss. I havent noticed any loss in my buddy after 7000 indicated miles.
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Post by mandyscoots »

Jrman wrote:
MarkTur wrote:So be nice and post it for the rest of us...I know it's a sliding scale, so it would be helpful. :)
Per request.. :)
:lol:
wouldn't it be funny to see a buddy with this taped to the side of the speedometer?! LOL
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Top Speed

Post by rondothemidget »

For those of you that know central Orange County, California, there's a stretch on Jamboree that goes through the former Tustin Marine base where the speed limit is 60. There are high walls on both sides of the 8-lane road with a concrete barrier in between and you can't really feel any wind. It's a weird feeling, like a dead zone of wind. I can always get to 75 indicated on flat ground with no drafting behind a car or truck. I don't have a windshield, have 1,000 miles on my Buddy 125 and get into the tuck position. I'm guessing I'll peg the speedometer when I get a windshield.
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Post by ilektron »

MarkTur wrote: I get up to about 65 indicated, and I can still open the throttle a bit more, but no change in engine sound or speed...

I don't care for better acceleration, I accelerate at half throttle, and that's just fine anyway...just want a bit more on the highway.

Thats about the exact same for me. I am 6'1", with all my gear and change in my pocket, probably over 200lbs. Its hard for me to know when I'm on flat ground without wind, but I usually top out at 60-65bmph. I have around 860bm on my odo.
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Re: A Couple Questions

Post by ericalm »

This is a very late reply—sorry—hadn;t seen these questions.
mtrugger wrote:Question #1: I keep reading that what I am actually going on my Buddy 125cc and what my speedometer reads can be two different things. Is this true? And if so, WHY? This idea kind of ticks me off.
Yes, this is true. The DOT actually allows a speedometers to read a certain % fast or "optimistic"—usually 10-15%. This is the case on many, if not most 2-wheel vehicles. There's actually a mechanical/physics-based reason for this, but it's rather lengthy and I don't really remember the whole explanation. I'll look for it again and repost it here if I find it.
mtrugger wrote:Question #1.5: I am a bigger gal so I understand that my speed may not be as good as other people's (55 - 60 at an incline and 60 - 65 flat, but I live in Montana, so I don't usually get the flat stuff). What can I do to pump it up a bit (besides loose weight!). Can I just take it into my dealer and tell him I want it to go faster? And what would I ask for specifically since my dealer is a smarmy poophead and I'm pretty confident he'll try to screw me if he can.
There are a few things you can do. Cheapest and easiest improvement: add a windshield. Next, consider changing your variator weights to slightly heavier ones (you may lose off the line acceleration, though). Third, consider a performance exhaust. If you're at a high altitude, you may want to talk to your dealer about rejetting, too. They should know about this. There are a lot of threads on these topics here and if you're unfamiliar with any of the terminology check out our glossary.
mtrugger wrote:Question #2: I have about 850 miles on my scooter. In the last week when I've checked my oil it's been half full on two occasions. I've topped it off and I am going to take it in this week to have the seals and whatnot checked out, but will this be covered by warranty do you think?
You may have already dealt with this, but if there's a bad seal or you're leaking oil due to some kind of mechanical failure or bad part, then it will be covered.
Eric // LA Scooter Meetup Group // Stella 4T // Vespa LX // Vespa LXS // Honda Helix // some, uh, projects…
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