So today i go to an hour long meeting, i put the scoot on the ceter stand and go inside. I walk out to find my scoot knocked over on its side aginst someones car!!!!! so needless to say im really upset!! i walked over pick it up and there is a little damage to the car that in fell aganst. now to make it WORSE i went to find the owner of the car and let him know that the scoot had been knocked into his car and that i didn't want to just leave him to find his car like that right. I even offered to pay for half of the cost of fixing it and the guy had the balls to suggest that i should pay for ALL OF IT!!!! then i move the scoot out into the open into the sun light (it was shaded by some trees) and i find a foot print on the oppisite side from where it had landed, confirming that it was kicked over i'm so mad and don't know how to haddle it. i wish i could find the guy who did this and kick him in his teeth!!! and the owner of the car, well i would expect a liitle uderstanding from him and appreciation that i offered to cover half the cost. AAAARRRHHHH!!!!!
Man I would be soooooo mad. Since the car guy was such a jerk, I would rescind my offer and tell him to take care of it himself. Make sure you take a photo of the footprint just in case the car owner tries to blame it on you. Then let security at work know some jerk is running around that damaged 2 vehicles. Check and see if security has any video footage.
Yep, you owe the car guy nothing, that was nice of you to offer to help him out, and lame of him to be a jag about it. call the police, report the incident, they'll give you a police report number, give the police report number to the car guy and tell him he's on his own. His insurance company will call yours and yours will tell them to f**k off, and you don't need to worry about it. That's why you have insurance.
Bb.
2strokebuzz: When news breaks, we put it under a tarp in the garage.
jperkins wrote:dont offer to pay shit on that guys car...your car was not on or moving so it was not a collision, his comperhensive insurance will cover it.
And if he doesn't have comprehensive coverage, or the damage doesn't come in under the deductible, it's not your problem, anyway.
What kind of a$$hat goes around kicking over two wheeled vehicles? Seriously what kind of messed up do you have to be to take the time to walk up to a strangers bike/scooter and kick it hard enough to knock it over?
agreed. don't offer to pay for that guy's car. you did not cause any damage to his car. both your scooter and his car are victims of someone else's (stupid) actions. imagine if it had been your car parked next to his car, and some one hits your car causing it to hit his car. would you have to pay for his damage?
something like that happened to my father. he was at a stoplight, and this car rear-ended the car behind him so hard that the car behind him ended up hitting him as well. the responsibility lies not in the car that hit my father, but the car that did the original "hitting."
Just chiming in to add my anger to yours! You shouldn't have to worry about your scoot when you park it. If/when you decide to repair/replace the broken bits, maybe consider getting a cheap cover for it - over at New York Scooter Club they say that seems to make people less inclined to mess with the scooters.
"There are two means of refuge from the misery of life - music and cats."
- Albert Schweitzer
Completely agree! Rescind the offer. You were being completely cool by offering to pay and owe that guy NOTHING. Go for a ride to cool off. No, a longer ride.....just ride....and then ride some more........keep going.....old country roads.....a litte farther......ahhhhhh......feeling better....now just move on. You did the right thing. You owe nothing here. Ok, now go ride again......you'll feel better. Guaranteed.
Your scooter hit his car - regardless of why or who, so you're at fault.
I fail to see how you don't owe this guy anything. You already admitted to the car's owner that YOUR scooter caused the damage to their car. It sucks that you're stuck w/ the shitty end of the stick, but why should the car owner be out anything to fix the damage?
I'm amazed at the other responses that think the car owner is owed nothing because he didn't agree to the scooter owner paying half. If you were in the car owners shoes you would be looking to be paid for the repairs in full.
give me 48 hours, ill have the guy who kicked over your scooter, as well as the a$$ hole who decided to try to make you pay for all the damage in some sort of pain.
I dont know in CA but in PA we are an "At Fault" state. Which means, no ones fault.. the insurance companies duke it out, and we stay out of it.
Check for security cameras, and if you find him, I'll hold him down and you can punch.
I'm getting really tired of people touching my scoot. I had someone move mine, but heaven forbid they knock it over. You will hear the yelling all the way in CA.
MPA wrote:Your scooter hit his car - regardless of why or who, so you're at fault.
I fail to see how you don't owe this guy anything. You already admitted to the car's owner that YOUR scooter caused the damage to their car. It sucks that you're stuck w/ the shitty end of the stick, but why should the car owner be out anything to fix the damage?
I'm amazed at the other responses that think the car owner is owed nothing because he didn't agree to the scooter owner paying half. If you were in the car owners shoes you would be looking to be paid for the repairs in full.
because it was the neglegent act of someone else that caused the damage.
If I pick up your helmet and beat someone with it, it's your fault? Please...
did you misread what happened in the original post? it wasn't that his scooter hit the car. it's that some person used his scooter to hit the car, by knocking it into the car, while he was not there and without his consent.
like i said in my earlier post, imagine if it were a car instead and not a scooter... someone comes along and hits his car, causing it to hit another car. where would the fault lie? certainly not in the car that's in the middle of it all. same thing here. his scooter was just parked there and somebody decided to use it to cause damage to the car.
anyways it sucks... i hope they find the person who did the damage and make that person pay for BOTH the scoot and the car.
MPA wrote:Your scooter hit his car - regardless of why or who, so you're at fault.
I fail to see how you don't owe this guy anything. You already admitted to the car's owner that YOUR scooter caused the damage to their car. It sucks that you're stuck w/ the shitty end of the stick, but why should the car owner be out anything to fix the damage?
I'm amazed at the other responses that think the car owner is owed nothing because he didn't agree to the scooter owner paying half. If you were in the car owners shoes you would be looking to be paid for the repairs in full.
No I didn't misread a thing - I know someone else kicked the scooter into the car. It does not matter how his scooter hit the car. Comparing using my helmet to hit someone is ridiculous.
His/her scooter caused the damage - if someone had stolen the scooter and crashed it into the car you can bet the car owner's insurance company would be going after the scooter's insurance company for reimbursement of ALL the damages - they're not going to say "We know it's not your fault it was stolen, so we'll cover the damage."
In some states, just owning a vehicle makes you partially at fault even if you weren't personally involved in an accident.
for example, a drunk hits your properly parked car. You still have to pay for part of the repairs because your car was involved.
As for why someone would kick over the scooter, I'd wager they got upset at the scooter being parked where they wanted to. Either that or they are just slightly sub-human.
Heroism is being scared as hell and saddling up anyways - John Wayne
Hmmm, well in terms of "fault" and who pays for what, I guess it depends on state laws and stuff. My friend was in a related predicament, only with cars and not scooters. He was parked in a lot and getting coffee. Somebody from the road lost control and went flying into the parking lot. This person hit my friend's parked car and his car went slamming into the Mercedes parked next to him. He watched the whole thing from inside the coffee shop. Once insurance was sorted out, my friend didn't pay for anything. It was the "lost control" person from the road who was at fault so s/he had to pay for my friend's repairs as well as the Mercedes repairs. SO, even though my friend's car technically hit the Mercedes, my friend was not pegged as "at fault". Kind of like you, right? Your scooter hit someone's car but you weren't even on the scooter at the time?? I guess maybe you'd need a witness? Maybe could you post some flyers in the garge or nearby buildings?
Anyway, let us know how this progresses. Stupid scooter kickers.
MPA wrote:No I didn't misread a thing - I know someone else kicked the scooter into the car. It does not matter how his scooter hit the car. Comparing using my helmet to hit someone is ridiculous.
His/her scooter caused the damage - if someone had stolen the scooter and crashed it into the car you can bet the car owner's insurance company would be going after the scooter's insurance company for reimbursement of ALL the damages - they're not going to say "We know it's not your fault it was stolen, so we'll cover the damage."
Untrue. Liability requires some degree of negligence. If the stolen vehicle was left unlocked with the keys in the ignition the owner and his insurer might have some liability. If the scooter owner placed a "kick me" sign on his scooter or had somehow incited the incident he might have some liability. We had a case in Seattle a year or so ago where a woman was seriously injured by a nut case trying to ram his ex-girl friend's car. Both his insurer and her UIM coverage refused to cover even her medical costs because it was an intentional act and not an "accident" even though she was not his intended victim. Her insurer relented after the ensuing publicity started damaging their image.
MPA wrote:No I didn't misread a thing - I know someone else kicked the scooter into the car. It does not matter how his scooter hit the car. Comparing using my helmet to hit someone is ridiculous.
His/her scooter caused the damage - if someone had stolen the scooter and crashed it into the car you can bet the car owner's insurance company would be going after the scooter's insurance company for reimbursement of ALL the damages - they're not going to say "We know it's not your fault it was stolen, so we'll cover the damage."
Now you're moving the goalpost....
You originally state that he is clearly at fault and therefore liable. Now you are saying that the insurance company will try to get him. Well of course they will, that's their job: to make someone else pay.
Either the OP is liable under the law or isn't. And if I kick your helmet and it hits someone causing them injury then you're at fault right?
HMBscoot wrote:So today i go to an hour long meeting, i put the scoot on the ceter stand and go inside. I walk out to find my scoot knocked over on its side aginst someones car!!!!! so needless to say im really upset!! i walked over pick it up and there is a little damage to the car that in fell aganst. now to make it WORSE i went to find the owner of the car and let him know that the scoot had been knocked into his car and that i didn't want to just leave him to find his car like that right. I even offered to pay for half of the cost of fixing it and the guy had the balls to suggest that i should pay for ALL OF IT!!!! then i move the scoot out into the open into the sun light (it was shaded by some trees) and i find a foot print on the oppisite side from where it had landed, confirming that it was kicked over i'm so mad and don't know how to haddle it. i wish i could find the guy who did this and kick him in his teeth!!! and the owner of the car, well i would expect a liitle uderstanding from him and appreciation that i offered to cover half the cost. AAAARRRHHHH!!!!!
Where was your hour long meeting? Was it at an anger management group by any chance?
schlagle wrote:
Now you're moving the goalpost....
You originally state that he is clearly at fault and therefore liable. Now you are saying that the insurance company will try to get him. Well of course they will, that's their job: to make someone else pay.
Either the OP is liable under the law or isn't. And if I kick your helmet and it hits someone causing them injury then you're at fault right?
The insurance company was just used as an example. I never said the scooter owner was at fault, just that he is responsible for the damage to the car even if he had nothing to do with it falling over. If the wind had knocked it into the car instead of someone kicking it would still be on the scooter owner.
And again the helmet comparison is completely different. If it was my car hit by a scooter in the same situation, I'd be taking the scooter owner to small claims court for the full amount of the repair. I guess all of you would say "Oh no problem, I know you're not at fault since someone else knocked it over - I'll gladly pay for the repairs myself".
As someone who worked for State Farm for quite a few years, I just wanted to put out this: It Depends. On the involved insurance companies' policies. Actually, it can even vary depending on the adjuster assigned to the claim - I've seen again and again the discussions that ensue in a claims office over "Proximate Cause" etc - so there really isn't a right answer to be known here.
Hopefully the car who got hit by the scooter is insured, and that insurance company will determine that it was in effect a hit and run - so our Buddy owner's insurance company isn't asked for reimbursement. But who knows.
ETA: I meant "in effect vandalism" - forgot about the footprint indicating it wasn't a car that smooshed the scooter into the nearby parked car.
Last edited by coffeekittie on Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"There are two means of refuge from the misery of life - music and cats."
- Albert Schweitzer
MPA wrote: If the wind had knocked it into the car instead of someone kicking it would still be on the scooter owner.".
Also untrue. A neighbor's tree fell on my house last year in a windstorm and the question of their fault never arose. Only if they were aware that the tree was damaged, diseased, or in some way posed a danger to my house and they neglected to correct the problem could they be at fault.
In my (limited) experience, I would say the "proper" thing to have done would be call the police and report an act of vandalism. They'd probably send an officer around to look at things, give a police report number to you, and that would be that. So long as your scooter was legally parked, you shouldn't be liable for anything. However, insurance and civil court being what it is, anyone can sue anyone for anything, and keep it going until you run out of money if they are so inclined.
I would say at this point in time, call your liability insurance company, tell them what happened, and if the guy bothers you anymore, tell him to talk to your insurance company. That's what they're there for - bilking you for money, and giving people the runaround when they want money from them.
HMBscoot wrote:So today i go to an hour long meeting, i put the scoot on the ceter stand and go inside. I walk out to find my scoot knocked over on its side aginst someones car!!!!! so needless to say im really upset!! i walked over pick it up and there is a little damage to the car that in fell aganst. now to make it WORSE i went to find the owner of the car and let him know that the scoot had been knocked into his car and that i didn't want to just leave him to find his car like that right. I even offered to pay for half of the cost of fixing it and the guy had the balls to suggest that i should pay for ALL OF IT!!!! then i move the scoot out into the open into the sun light (it was shaded by some trees) and i find a foot print on the oppisite side from where it had landed, confirming that it was kicked over i'm so mad and don't know how to haddle it. i wish i could find the guy who did this and kick him in his teeth!!! and the owner of the car, well i would expect a liitle uderstanding from him and appreciation that i offered to cover half the cost. AAAARRRHHHH!!!!!
You shouldn't have offered. Actually, you should have just picked up your scoot, taken some quick cell pics, and called the police. Note as mentioned numerously: ALWAYS CALL THE POLICE. There will be legalities, but what will back up your side of the story? A POLICE REPORT. :0) I cover mine up all the time for that exact reason. When this dude let his kid sit on my scoot last week, I was seriously looking to kick his ass on the spot. It's like this as an example: "I buy an ice cream cone and you stick your tongue out and lick my cone???? Are you nuts??? I'll break my foot off on your tongue dude, seriously!" And even though it was petty, while I'm not, I was gonna call the cops just for the report.
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Last edited by natkingcol on Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
schlagle wrote:
Now you're moving the goalpost....
You originally state that he is clearly at fault and therefore liable. Now you are saying that the insurance company will try to get him. Well of course they will, that's their job: to make someone else pay.
Either the OP is liable under the law or isn't. And if I kick your helmet and it hits someone causing them injury then you're at fault right?
The insurance company was just used as an example. I never said the scooter owner was at fault, just that he is responsible for the damage to the car even if he had nothing to do with it falling over. If the wind had knocked it into the car instead of someone kicking it would still be on the scooter owner.
And again the helmet comparison is completely different. If it was my car hit by a scooter in the same situation, I'd be taking the scooter owner to small claims court for the full amount of the repair. I guess all of you would say "Oh no problem, I know you're not at fault since someone else knocked it over - I'll gladly pay for the repairs myself".
This was an act of vandalism and should be covered by the car owner's insurance as such. You'd get nowhere in small claims court. This is just the kind of spurious lawsuit people are constantly complaining about, trying to hold someone responsible for something when they're not culpable.
If this happened to my car, I wouldn't go after the scooterist—it's not in any way their fault and my car insurance would cover this the same as if I'd come out of a store and discovered someone had hit my car while parked.
If a vandal or whoever had used something other than a scooter to damage the car, they would be responsible, even if they caused the damage and ran off. I don't see why this would be any different because someone kicked a scooter into the car. Is it solely because the scooter is a vehicle and also covered by insurance? As long as the scooter owner was in no way at fault through intent or negligence, I don't understand the reasoning here.
Eric // LA Scooter Meetup Group // Stella 4T // Vespa LX // Vespa LXS // Honda Helix // some, uh, projects…
Seems like the best thing to come out of this bad event is how apparent it is we should all carry complete insurance on our scooters. Even if it isn't required by law. If some jerk messes with our ride, or even totals or steals it, we are covered. Always know your policy of course, but in general we can all be more at ease having some protection.
Just my 2cents.
"There are two means of refuge from the misery of life - music and cats."
- Albert Schweitzer
MPA wrote:
The insurance company was just used as an example. I never said the scooter owner was at fault, just that he is responsible for the damage to the car even if he had nothing to do with it falling over. If the wind had knocked it into the car instead of someone kicking it would still be on the scooter owner.
And again the helmet comparison is completely different. If it was my car hit by a scooter in the same situation, I'd be taking the scooter owner to small claims court for the full amount of the repair. I guess all of you would say "Oh no problem, I know you're not at fault since someone else knocked it over - I'll gladly pay for the repairs myself".
This was an act of vandalism and should be covered by the car owner's insurance as such. You'd get nowhere in small claims court. This is just the kind of spurious lawsuit people are constantly complaining about, trying to hold someone responsible for something when they're not culpable.
If this happened to my car, I wouldn't go after the scooterist—it's not in any way their fault
+1
I think I would feel GOOD about telling anyone who so generously came to tell me what happened and offered to split the costs for something that wasn't their fault, "No, it's not your fault. Don't worry about." As you said, it's not his fault.
Obviously, I wouldn't be happy about paying for damage I didn't do, but it seems to me that in this case you would be trying to hold a fellow victim responsible, rather than the actual perpetrator of the crime.
As for wind, that is a different story. I can account for some wind, and take precautions to block my scooter from it. I can't account for the actions of vandals and thieves.
I never said the scooter owner was at fault, just that he is responsible for the damage to the car even if he had nothing to do with it falling over.
That is not the law here in Missouri. You have to have some negligence to be at fault.
I had a co-worker that blacked while driving on the highway (he had a brain tumor and didn't know it). He crossed the median and hit two cars. His insurance wouldn't pay for the other cars damage. The other drivers went to court and lost. The court said he was not negligent and not at fault.
The same goes with your stolen car example. If someone steals my car, then drives it through a 7-11, I, the owner, am not liable for the damage to the 7-11.
Hey everyone, thanks for all the responses, and thanks to those who had good suggestions. I have been soo busy with work that i kinda had no choice but to forget about this. Now that i'm off work for a few days and came back to read all this, i'm remembering how much this sucks. For now i'm just waiting for the car owner to get back to me and hopefully i'll just give him some cash and that side of it will be over.
chloefpuff wrote:Was your scoot damaged? I didn't see anything about that in yhour post.
Well the damage to the scoot was not all that bad. It was kinda leaning on the so that must have kept it from braking anything the mirror at first looked like it was broken but it had just come unscrewed(it was the first part to make contact with the car and caused the dent/scratch) the end of the right grip got a little scuffed up and the most noticeable damage was to the passenger foot rest area and shield over the muffler.
I bought the scoot first week in May, since then i have put over 2,000 miles/bdu's on it and had allways been very careful with it. Any time i rode in mist/fog/drizzle i would pull it into the garage and wipe it down. I had never actually washed it though until the day before this happened making the horror of finding your scoot on it's side just a bit more painful ( this is also why i easily noticed the foot print on the scoot)
MPA wrote:No I didn't misread a thing - I know someone else kicked the scooter into the car. It does not matter how his scooter hit the car. Comparing using my helmet to hit someone is ridiculous.
His/her scooter caused the damage - if someone had stolen the scooter and crashed it into the car you can bet the car owner's insurance company would be going after the scooter's insurance company for reimbursement of ALL the damages - they're not going to say "We know it's not your fault it was stolen, so we'll cover the damage."
MPA i know where your coming from, i am very very protective of my cars and my scoot! I would have been totally bummed if i came out to my car and found it damaged, and that is exactly why i went and found the owner and offered to help.... I kinda look at it like this; If i was sitting on a park bench enjoying a nice hot cup of coffee, and happened to be sitting between to people, lets say Mr.X and Mr.Y. Let's say that Mr. Y gets up, takes the coffee from my had and throws it at Mr. X??? should i be responsible for Mr. X's medical bills??? So yes i know it's really not cool to find your care has been messed up regardless of why or how but thats why i did find and offer to help the owner of the car. ....To bad the owner of the shoe that made contact with my scoot didn't offer me anything
Now i'm just left feeling like trying to do the right thing, always seems to back-fire on me.
I had a really crappy day at work today, and coming home reading HMBscoot's explanation for his(?/her?) action just made me feel a lot better. HMBscoot I hope you get A LOT of karma points for what you just did.
I would not give the car owner a dime and let his insurance company figure it out. I can't decide who is a bigger d-bag, the jerk with the footprint or the car owner. I am leaning towards the car owner.
making the horror of finding your scoot on it's side just a bit more painful 
