[crash avoidance] How do you avoid that wreck?

Post by **jmazza** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:28 pm

...when you are on a 3 lane highway with a Ford F150 to your left and a Lincoln Navigator to your right, trying to get to a better space bubble but not being too successful because there's just too much traffic... and then the Navigator starts to slowly slide into your lane so you blow your Stebel Magnum and she hears you right away and jerks back into her lane and THEN looks in the side mirror and sees you...

and continues to move over anyway.

How do you avoid that wreck? By S.E.E.ing it happen before it does and being ready to switch lane positions to allow the massive hunk of metal to have a bit of your lane while you execute another avoidance move, and also knowing how much space there is behind you. I was able to back off JUST enough to let her fit in.

I love commuting!!

Feel free to post your own "How do you avoid that wreck?" answers here... we all experience the same boneheaded drivers every day, in every state. So let's hear your story and then see your answer the question "How do you avoid that wreck?"

ToughHouseRook · Post by **ToughHouseRook** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:57 pm

I wouldn't have let her over at all! she saw that you occupied that lane and then at the risk of your safety, and hers, bullied her vehicle into your space. Right or wrong, capitulation would not have been one of the options running through my mind, I would not have allowed her rude, aggressive, dangerous driving to revoke my legal rights to the road.

If she knew you were there I doubt she REALLY would have hit you had you stood your ground. The second time she started to come over I would have stood on the stebal again and hit or kicked her car somewhere to really get her attention. I have found when people hear a load noise like that they tend to think they have hit something and get their arse back into their respective lane pretty quick and stay there.

EDIT: Whoops, I just realized I inadvertently destroyed the spirit behind this thread. I apologize, but that type of blatant disrespect towards other vehicles is what gets people seriously injured, and/or killed. Allowing them to come over because they are bigger just reinforces their logic and makes them think it is acceptable.

bunny · Post by **bunny** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:14 pm

I would have sped up to let her in BEHIND me.

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:17 pm

Not preaching, but as a matter of personal preference I avoid the center lane like the plague. While it does increase your choice of "bail-out" routes, it also provides another lane's worth of imbeciles the opportunity to mess with you.

Jrman · Post by **Jrman** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:31 pm

charlie55 wrote:Not preaching, but as a matter of personal preference I avoid the center lane like the plague. While it does increase your choice of "bail-out" routes, it also provides another lane's worth of imbeciles the opportunity to mess with you.

I feel the same way and have been trying to balance between the left lane or the right lane. Both have their problems but at least you are not boxed in if you choose the middle lane. i have had several people cut me off when I was in the left lane. People in cars tend to just check the mirror but don't "look". I have to slow down a couple of time but I was never in any danger. i try like hell to speed up when I get next to a car when in their possible blind spot but in traffic that is not always possible.

In the case of a Lincoln navigator I think I would give them the space too. A scooter is not big enough to fight for a driving space. Best thing is to shake your head and move on. IMO.

I do plan to get a Sable horn to at least give my scooter a better voice even if they don't listen.

Drumwoulf · Post by **Drumwoulf** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:51 pm

ToughHouseRook wrote:I wouldn't have let her over at all! she saw that you occupied that lane and then at the risk of your safety, and hers, bullied her vehicle into your space. Right or wrong, capitulation would not have been one of the options running through my mind, I would not have allowed her rude, aggressive, dangerous driving to revoke my legal rights to the road.

My thot about that is, would you rather be right or alive?

Pitting one's only living body on a small scooter against an invasion by a huge fast moving chunk of truck-speeding steel is suicidal, IMO! Sure, that truck driving chicky was an absolute AH for invading your space like that, but her willingness to care nothing about your life or safety tells me that she'd probably be willing to keep on moving over too, even if you didn't back off...
It doesn't pay to be an aggressive rabbit against an uncaring, aggressive elephant; you'll only get squashed! I'd back off quick out of that situation. I wouldn't like it, but I'd do it and live to ride uninjured another day!

standup · Post by **standup** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:56 pm

Lessee, both in the first week of September:

When a city bus started lumbering away from the curb and into my lane I laid on the horn and twisted the throttle at the same time and cleared the bus by getting ahead of it...

And when a young lady eating a banana pulled out of a convenience store parking lot right into my path I slammed on the brakes and steered to the right. When I came to a stop a foot from the side of her car I hit the horn (busy stopping before that). She waved at me in the mirror.

siobhan · Post by **siobhan** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:13 pm

I talk to myself about the traffic around me when commuting (in heavy traffic and usually just in my head, not aloud...I'm not crazy or anything

)

"What's that Jeep gonna do? Is she turning left in the left-turn-only lane or is she going to go straight and cut me off?"

"Hmm, the bus has a blinker on to pull over right but there's no one at the stop. Is he letting letting someone off or will he pull back out and not see me?"

"Does that Honda coming up behind me actually see me?"

"Pothole. Puddle. Sand. Manhole cover."

I find it very helpful to assume the worst of everyone and then I'm pleasantly surprised when nothing happens.

Groovealufagus · Post by **Groovealufagus** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:05 pm

Recently had the same thing happen to me in traffic... with a tandem bus that merged onto the street on which I was riding in the left lane to make a left turn two blocks away. Bus was going to make the left, but simply never saw me from it's vantage point.

Bunny... speeding up to get around a vehicle merging into your lane may very well have gotten you into much more serious trouble than using engine braking, tapping the brake so people behind know you're slowing, then changing lanes.

ToughHouseRook... keep that attitude about 'your' space and right of way and you will end up getting hurt. Seriously... when you're lying in traction in the hospital, I'm not so sure you'll still be boasting to yourself or anyone else about how tough you are and how standing your ground against a vehicle that outweighs yours by 500% or more is the smart thing to do. It doesn't matter if what other people do to you is right... it matters that you make smart decisions that keep you safe to ride another day.

Orange Guy · Post by **Orange Guy** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:16 pm

Yesterday I learned to look for more than just brake lights. I came real close to rear-ending an Oldsmobile Aurora that apparently has no functioning brake lights or turn signals.

Not really an "avoid that wreck" thing, but one more thing for us to watch for.

Racenut · Post by **Racenut** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:40 pm

ToughHouseRook wrote:I wouldn't have let her over at all! she saw that you occupied that lane and then at the risk of your safety, and hers, bullied her vehicle into your space. Right or wrong, capitulation would not have been one of the options running through my mind, I would not have allowed her rude, aggressive, dangerous driving to revoke my legal rights to the road.

You'd be dead right. Your right of way doesn't mean crap other then to asses blame after an accident.

Racenut · Post by **Racenut** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:44 pm

Orange Guy wrote:Yesterday I learned to look for more than just brake lights. I came real close to rear-ending an Oldsmobile Aurora that apparently has no functioning brake lights or turn signals.

Not really an "avoid that wreck" thing, but one more thing for us to watch for.

If you lived here, you'd have learned that a long time ago

I have even "heard" (insert rumor disclaimer here) that it's quite popular around here to put a switch on your brake light circuit. Turn them off, brake check, get rear ended, turn them on, no officer, look, they work. Then file insurance claim for whiplash et al.

Sneaky... But yeah, I'm shocked how many cars I get behind with no brake lights around here. Guess they turn them back on if a cop is behind them too.

Post by **jmazza** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:59 pm

Well well well!

Thanks for the responses! I'm not really questioning my choices to avoid the accident, I think I was pretty well right on given all the factors.

charlie55, I hear you on the center lane. As for that- in my experience on this particular road (at least twice a day, often at rush hour, for 10 months), the center lane is where, except for today, I have had the least problems. I KNOW that goes against standard safe riding practice, but the problem is the right lane has too many hidden places where people pull out so I have to watch from both sides anyway, and the left lane has a median, so as for being squished, it's the same as the center. I've had cars come at me from the right before when I was in the left lane and I've almost brushed the curb. At least in the center I've got a shot at having two escape routes. But you make a good point that in the left I could concentrate my attention on the cars to my right. The fact is this is a tough road for cars, let alone scooters. But it IS fun!!

Today that was not the case... of course I try to never be in this position when riding, but it's rush hour and you just don't get great choices all the time. I knew at the time I was getting to her blind spot (her lane was going faster than mine and then slowed a bit) so I was already slowing my speed in comparison to hers. Again, it's rush hour and perfect riding conditions are almost never available, which is one of the reasons for starting this thread. We'll all eventually find ourselves stuck in a situation like mine. Again, I was doing everything I know to ride safely, and by being aware of the possibility of her changing lanes into me (I do the same thing siobahn does and it is a great thing to do) along with the awareness of the space available behind me, I was able to avoid the accident.

Speeding up, by the way, would have put me into the car in front of me. Again, rush hour. She was trying to fit into a space much too small for her vehicle.

And yeah, ToughHouseRook, "I would not let her over at all...?" Let me know how that goes for you!

I don't think I have much chance of stopping a Lincoln Navigator from doing anything it pleases. I honked, she heard me, then saw me, and moved over. I had left my Superman cape at home, and my Buddy's cape is at the dry cleaner so all bets were off on "not letting her do that!"

Two more things- props to the Stebel Magnum horn- it's no Nautilus but it sure did the job better than the stock one would have. And also, although it got my adrenaline pumping, I never felt nervous- it's nice to feel natural defensive riding practices kick in without getting scared... I've had other close calls where I had to think a whole lot more about it which reduces reaction time.

C'mon... I know there are more stories that others can benefit from. Let's hear them! Enough about me... what do YOU think of me...

gt1000 · Post by **gt1000** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:09 pm

Recently had the same thing happen to me in traffic... with a tandem bus that merged onto the street on which I was riding in the left lane to make a left turn two blocks away. Bus was going to make the left, but simply never saw me from it's vantage point.

That's interesting. My normal commute runs through parts of 3 bus routes and I've found RTD drivers to be very courteous (exception being the 16th street mall shuttle) and aware. I've always wondered about the big tandems, which I do see from time to time on the 44 route. Visibility must be tough with those behemoths.

As far as avoidance goes, I just try to see and think as far ahead of myself as I can. The sooner you see a potential hazard, the better your chances are of avoiding it. Stay focused and avoid distractions. Our scoots are agile and they're capable of very short stopping distances so my first reaction when on the Buddy is to take advantage of those attributes. Once you get above 40 mph, accelerating out of trouble will be difficult.

As for the lady continuing to move into my lane after seeing me? No way I try to argue with a Navigator, although I would've continued to lay on the horn. If I had time though, this is one person I would've followed to her destination. If time was an issue, I'd memorize the tags and call the cops. Many cities have aggressive driver watches now. If yours does, take advantage of it. Next time she might run somebody down.

Post by **jmazza** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:21 pm

gt1000 wrote:
As for the lady continuing to move into my lane after seeing me? No way I try to argue with a Navigator, although I would've continued to lay on the horn. If I had time though, this is one person I would've followed to her destination. If time was an issue, I'd memorize the tags and call the cops. Many cities have aggressive driver watches now. If yours does, take advantage of it. Next time she might run somebody down.

Yeah I should've stayed on the horn... as soon as I saw her jerk back into her lane, I thought I was good... you know, another day in scooter paradise. They move over, you honk, they go back.

I started to follow her but I had to turn where she went straight and I didn't really have the time to chase her but I need to find out if there's an aggressive driver watch here...

kazoo · Post by **kazoo** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:30 pm

Helmet cams are the way to go.

sunshinen · Post by **sunshinen** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:42 pm

ToughHouseRook wrote:I wouldn't have let her over at all!

Well, my first response to that is a solid, Good luck with that. But I do get where you're coming from. I ride somewhat aggressively.... in that I boldly sort of place my self in the most visible — this is MY f***ing lane — position that I can in relation to others who may not "see" me.

This visibility and demeanor is part of my avoid the crash arsenal. But another part of that arsenal is not letting my ego do the driving. As you will see below, much of my stay-safe arsenal is about understanding and being prepared for the behaviors of cagers. After 7300 miles of riding, I would say anticipation of (and everyday habits that accommodate) cager stupidity is 80% of the game.

I may ride with the demeanor that it is my lane, but I have my hand on the brake and I constantly, actively plan where I would go if they still don't see me or don't care or whatever.

Other weapons in my avoid the crash arsenal (related to this scenario) are

1) Accepting that some people are going to force their way in regardless of whether you are on a scooter, a Harley, a car, or even a freakin Hummer. They just assume YOU aren't REALLY going to let them hit you.

Action: Ride in a healthy state of mind, where I will NOT let myself get into a game of chicken, where 2 out of 3 possible scenarios mean not only that I lose, but that I lose big time.

2) Realizing that some people still don't understand the "objects in mirror are closer than they appear" concept. They may see me, they may actively not want to hit me, but not realize how close I really am.

Action: If someone is looking in the mirror, take action to be out of their way.

3) Realizing that people swerve without warning: They are about to miss their exit, they didn't see the sofa in the road, they dropped their cell phone under their seat and jerk the wheel trying to fish it out...

Action: always stay ahead of or behind the people in adjacent lanes enough that if they suddenly swerve into my lane they're not going to hit me.

4) Realizing people think that once you know they want to come over, you should and will let them in. And if you don't do so willingly, then you're a jerk and they have the moral high ground to force their way in. The accident could be caused either by a false expectation on their part (they see you, then stop watching you, assuming you will let them in) or aggressive driving (they see you and are determined that you will let them merge).

Action: Be the uber-courteous scooter girl. At the first hint they want over, I tend to back off even more and give big exaggerated signals that I am LETTING them in. And why not? Some petty notion of not letting them win, some petty feeling of toughness, some ridiculous idea that one more car in front of me is going to matter, some false pretense that my holding my ground is going to change how they drive? Nope. No how. I'm a bigger, smarter, more realistic person than all that (most of the time ) and I'd rather build goodwill for riders than bad.

5) Realizing that a 3-lane road at rush hour is The Danger Zone. (Queue the song. ) There's a lot to look out for and be aware of. Visibility is usually horrible, in terms of not seeing the cagers who are not looking where they are going as they zoom from the far left to the far right, in terms of cagers not being able to see you around the bigger vehicles, and in terms of not being able to see and prepare for various road debris and obstacles.

Action: Avoid 3-lane roads during high-traffic times. Wait it out or find an alternate route. If I must, then wear obnoxiously visible clothing and be extra, super vigilant. Ride like a fighter pilot in battle.

Jrman · Post by **Jrman** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:52 pm

siobhan wrote:
"What's that Jeep gonna do? Is she turning left in the left-turn-only lane or is she going to go straight and cut me off?"

"Hmm, the bus has a blinker on to pull over right but there's no one at the stop. Is he letting letting someone off or will he pull back out and not see me?"

"Does that Honda coming up behind me actually see me?"

"Pothole. Puddle. Sand. Manhole cover."

Nailed my riding thought process 100%. I do have to add the occasional "check out that girl in the bikini".. but I do try to limit those so I don't kill myself..

ScootingInTheRain · Post by **ScootingInTheRain** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:36 pm

This reminds me of something I said in a music-listening related post, something about how there are more things to pay attention to on 2 wheels than in a cage.

Here is what I am thinking about while scooting, no particular order:

Cross-traffic
Cars entering from side streets/driveways
my lane position
my visibility (keep out of blind spots)
pedestrians
left-turners
people in cars blasting and "focusing" to music
trucks. any and all.
manhole covers (personhole covers?)
ruts&grooves
construction areas
gravel
bug THWACK on helmet
correct wave to other riders
hecklers
head checks
corner-entering speed
did I zip my wallet pocket?
did I zip my cell phone pocket?
is that Hummer going to stop?
what is that weird vibration when I turn the throttle down?
am I going to make it to 65bpmh on this stretch?
am I out of gas?
am I late for work?
did my Givi case latch properly?
is my Givi case brakelight working?
rear pegs or cruiser-style today?

Kinda neurotic, but no crashes yet!

Ok, where's some wood, gotta knock on it. This isn't funny, where's some wood!!??!?!

~SITR

gt1000 · Post by **gt1000** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:24 pm

This visibility and demeanor is part of my avoid the crash arsenal. But another part of that arsenal is not letting my ego do the driving. As you will see below, much of my stay-safe arsenal is about understanding and being prepared for the behaviors of cagers. After 7300 miles of riding, I would say anticipation of (and everyday habits that accommodate) cager stupidity is 80% of the game.

Well said! Actually, your entire post was beautifully stated but there's no real reason to repeat the whole thing. Folks would do well to adopt most or all of your strategies, they're good ones.

One other thing to remember is to try to always leave yourself a reserve. If your speed is maxed out, you can't accelerate away from something. If you're using all your cornering traction, you're not going to be able to lean that extra little bit. In other words, don't try to approach 100% of your abilities or your bike's capabilities unless you're in a controlled area.

And so on...

Post by **jmazza** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:30 pm

gt1000 wrote:
This visibility and demeanor is part of my avoid the crash arsenal. But another part of that arsenal is not letting my ego do the driving. As you will see below, much of my stay-safe arsenal is about understanding and being prepared for the behaviors of cagers. After 7300 miles of riding, I would say anticipation of (and everyday habits that accommodate) cager stupidity is 80% of the game.
Well said! Actually, your entire post was beautifully stated but there's no real reason to repeat the whole thing. Folks would do well to adopt most or all of your strategies, they're good ones.

.

It was very well said... great great post.

Becktastic · Post by **Becktastic** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:52 pm

siobhan wrote:I talk to myself about the traffic around me when commuting (in heavy traffic and usually just in my head, not aloud...I'm not crazy or anything )

"What's that Jeep gonna do? Is she turning left in the left-turn-only lane or is she going to go straight and cut me off?"

"Hmm, the bus has a blinker on to pull over right but there's no one at the stop. Is he letting letting someone off or will he pull back out and not see me?"

"Does that Honda coming up behind me actually see me?"

"Pothole. Puddle. Sand. Manhole cover."
I find it very helpful to assume the worst of everyone and then I'm pleasantly surprised when nothing happens.

I do that too! Sometimes I hum video game music to make it more fun

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:33 am

jmazza, what was your speed as all this was going on?

I run into crash avoidance situations all the time riding in traffic around here. You really need to be in a constant state of S.E.E., analyzing what's happening in the zones in front of you. This doesn't come naturally, and even experienced riders are constantly honing their "scooter sense" to know when that car in the next lane gives a subtle tell that they're about to veer over without warning. Thing is, when it feels like second nature, you're probably riding on autopilot and not actively scanning. I'm very prone to both distraction and hyperfocusing my thoughts on other matters, so often clear my head when riding so my attention's where it should be.

For the most part, drivers have just stopped using turn signals, especially when changing lanes. The sudden, un-signaled lane change is the bane of my riding existence. One particularly dangerous variation: at a stoplight, seemingly stopped cars will swing out into the neighboring lane to get a better start position. Even when they do signal, it's hard to see if they're in a line of cars. I'm very careful when I approach lanes of stopped cars at a light.

You also have to be able to react quickly and make decisions—the "execute" part. A lot of situations present a few options—move, brake, accelerate, swerve, whatever. It definitely helps to start from the most advantageous lane position.

I was even thinking the other day that I might find a place to practice some hard countersteering and swerves soon. I sometimes feel like my body is in "cruising mode," all too comfortable with the same types of motions, and that having to pull an unusual maneuver would mean I'd have to snap it out of that, which could cost time or result in overcorrection. Practice, practice, practice.

Post by **jmazza** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:33 am

Becktastic wrote:
siobhan wrote:I talk to myself about the traffic around me when commuting (in heavy traffic and usually just in my head, not aloud...I'm not crazy or anything )

"What's that Jeep gonna do? Is she turning left in the left-turn-only lane or is she going to go straight and cut me off?"

"Hmm, the bus has a blinker on to pull over right but there's no one at the stop. Is he letting letting someone off or will he pull back out and not see me?"

"Does that Honda coming up behind me actually see me?"

"Pothole. Puddle. Sand. Manhole cover."
I find it very helpful to assume the worst of everyone and then I'm pleasantly surprised when nothing happens.
I do that too! Sometimes I hum video game music to make it more fun

Good idea... Frogger maybe?

I actually used to say all those things out loud because, well, I AM crazy. Now they are just in my head. With the other voices.

7eregrine · Post by **7eregrine** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:19 am

I've never had to do anything to avoid a crash. Not saying I am great or anything, just haven't even had a close call YET. I know I will sometime.

2 times that would even be close to... well, close.

I pass a car, he's on my left. Soon thereafter he speeds up and puts me in his blind spot. I cover the brakes. Sure as shooting he moves right over in front of me. Applied a bit of brake and it wasn't even close, although it would have been had I assumed he saw me. I didn't though as he FREAKING PASSED me. Idiots. I was in this guys area for like 5 miles too.

The other time, I whppied around an SUV that stopped in front of me. Cop car in oncoming lane was getting ready to left turn. I saw him and he saw me in plenty of time. Don't think he had even accelerated yet. Could have been very close because we positively did not see each other.

Big fan of the old S.E.E.

Post by **jmazza** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:24 am

ericalm wrote:jmazza, what was your speed as all this was going on?

Maybe 40bmph? It wasn't fast at all... it's not uncommon to pretty much need to go 60bmph on this road so I'm glad it didn't happen then.

And yeah the unsignaled lane change. Oh boy. Love 'em.

It's such a shame all these new cars don't come with turn signals.

7eregrine · Post by **7eregrine** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:00 pm

I see a lot of people that don't signal, but, at least in my area, it seems for everyone that does NOT signal, 3 will signal. It's particularly nice when you are the only person behind them and they use the signal. i.e. they saw you and are letting you know. I appreciate that from people when we are alone like that.

siobhan · Post by **siobhan** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:01 pm

Jrman wrote:
siobhan wrote:
"What's that Jeep gonna do? Is she turning left in the left-turn-only lane or is she going to go straight and cut me off?"

"Hmm, the bus has a blinker on to pull over right but there's no one at the stop. Is he letting letting someone off or will he pull back out and not see me?"

"Does that Honda coming up behind me actually see me?"

"Pothole. Puddle. Sand. Manhole cover."
Nailed my riding thought process 100%. I do have to add the occasional "check out that girl in the bikini".. but I do try to limit those so I don't kill myself..

I ride by several firehouses, so mine is "check out fireman"

bunny · Post by **bunny** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:13 pm

I also find that when I have the opportunity, I look at the wheels of the cars next to me. I have avoided countless merge/lane changes that way. I will either slow down or speed up while simultaneously keep my thumb on the horn button.

The wheels will start coming closer in preparation fro a merge/lane change. As for speeding up, I don't do it often, just when I suspect the car next to me hasn't seen me. I get up near the joint of their car door/front body panel. All while moving over to the opposing third of my lane in case they really want to get over.

I have found cagers agreeable to courtesy...of the loud horn variety...*snicker*

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:22 pm

The voices in my head alternate between my MSF instructor (the voice of reason) and Stewie Griffin (the voice of the inner child):

MSF: OK, watch that Lexus. Might be pulling a left into your path.

Stewie: BURN IN HELL!

MSF: Back off, the two Mercedes that passed you are gonna cut in.

Stewie: DAMN YOU! DAMN YOU ALL!

MSF: Slow down, burning Escalade ahead.

Stewie: VICTORY IS MINE!

Post by **jmazza** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:02 pm

charlie55 wrote:The voices in my head alternate between my MSF instructor (the voice of reason) and Stewie Griffin (the voice of the inner child):

MSF: OK, watch that Lexus. Might be pulling a left into your path.

Stewie: BURN IN HELL!

MSF: Back off, the two Mercedes that passed you are gonna cut in.

Stewie: DAMN YOU! DAMN YOU ALL!

MSF: Slow down, burning Escalade ahead.

Stewie: VICTORY IS MINE!

haha that's the best. One of my favorite things about a FF helmet (and mirrored face shield) is that I can say anything or display any facial expression I want and no one knows. I love the inner voice you've got going there.

7eregrine · Post by **7eregrine** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:30 pm

I on the other hand like to have people see my s--- eating grin.

Or maybe singing... I know at least a few have to think "wow, that dude is having fun!"

Of course, most probably think "What a nutjob!".

bunny · Post by **bunny** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:33 pm

7eregrine wrote:I on the other hand like to have people see my s--- eating grin.

Or maybe singing... I know at least a few have to think "wow, that dude is having fun!"

Of course, most probably think "What a nutjob!".

+1. I listen to my Shuffle on the way to and from work and I truly believe my fellow commuters get a smile from me dancing with Bonheur at stop lights...

Either that or they're just plain laughing AT me. No matter, I'm loving the hell out of riding to and from work. THere's just something relaxing about being on a scooter...or rather, so focused on your riding that all the troubles of the workday disappear on the way home...

greencountry · Post by **greencountry** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:28 pm

The other day an SUV merged into me, I laid on the horn, she didn't even pull away and just kept coming in. I had to slam on the brakes.

I'm gonna start carrying a bowl of pennies to throw at cars. The horn just doesn't result in the same satisfaction. Maybe if I time it right and am not too busy saving my life, getting a penny on the side window of the cage that's creeping into my lane will make the driver think they actually hit me and BTFO.

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:33 pm

greencountry wrote:The other day an SUV merged into me, I laid on the horn, she didn't even pull away and just kept coming in. I had to slam on the brakes.

That's pretty much what sent me to the pavement and totaled our first Buddy.

Before you resort to vandalism (don't think I haven't considered it), have you upgraded your horn to a Stebel Magnum or Nautilus?

greencountry · Post by **greencountry** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:38 pm

ericalm wrote:
greencountry wrote:The other day an SUV merged into me, I laid on the horn, she didn't even pull away and just kept coming in. I had to slam on the brakes.
That's pretty much what sent me to the pavement and totaled our first Buddy.

Before you resort to vandalism (don't think I haven't considered it), have you upgraded your horn to a Stebel Magnum or Nautilus?

Oh, she heard me. Same exact situation happened on a much faster and busier road, and *that* SUV backed off right away. I don't think a louder horn would have made a difference. Maybe if I had a horn that sounded like a police siren...

BeetleGoose · Post by **BeetleGoose** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:15 pm

greencountry wrote:
ericalm wrote:
greencountry wrote:The other day an SUV merged into me, I laid on the horn, she didn't even pull away and just kept coming in. I had to slam on the brakes.
That's pretty much what sent me to the pavement and totaled our first Buddy.

Before you resort to vandalism (don't think I haven't considered it), have you upgraded your horn to a Stebel Magnum or Nautilus?
Oh, she heard me. Same exact situation happened on a much faster and busier road, and *that* SUV backed off right away. I don't think a louder horn would have made a difference. Maybe if I had a horn that sounded like a police siren...

And before you resort to throwing pennies, just make sure that you can get away with it scott-free. I hear that throwing anything out (or from) of a moving vehicle can be considered a criminal act.

http://www.summitdaily.com/article/2006 ... /106250044

greencountry · Post by **greencountry** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:48 pm

BeetleGoose wrote:
And before you resort to throwing pennies, just make sure that you can get away with it scott-free. I hear that throwing anything out (or from) of a moving vehicle can be considered a criminal act.

http://www.summitdaily.com/article/2006 ... /106250044

Criminal like reckless driving, assault with a motor vehicle, or vehicular homicide?

I'm just venting, I may or may not start throwing pennies. Maybe if someone were enough of a jerk, like refusing to back down. Or I'll pull out a camera and take pictures of them and their car in view of them - that'll tick people off.

MarkTur · Post by **MarkTur** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:52 pm

This is why the MSF class is SO IMPORTANT. It's also why reading books on the subject is good.

Rule #1: Do not ride side by side with any vehicle. They see you, yet forget you're there.

Rule #2: You will not win against a cager, no matter how "right" you are. So forget it - be 100% totally defensive, and don't let the situations come up. You have to be in control, not the cager.

Rule #3: Make sure you scan 12, 4, and 2 second ahead for danger, as well as your rear-view mirrors constantly. Take action to prevent possible situations - ie. be Proactive rather than re-active.

Rule #4: Don't "flip off" bad drivers. See rule #2.

Be safe!

greencountry · Post by **greencountry** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:58 pm

MarkTur wrote:This is why the MSF class is SO IMPORTANT. It's also why reading books on the subject is good.

Done and done man. I have preached the sermon you are giving many times here. But there are no absolutes on real-world streets, you can rarely be absolutely safe (especially in heavy traffic).

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:57 pm

MarkTur wrote:Rule #1: Do not ride side by side with any vehicle. They see you, yet forget you're there.

This is pretty much near-impossible riding in commuter traffic. The best you can do sometimes is stay out of blind spots and parallel to or slightly ahead of the car's window. (To the rear on the passenger side is just trouble.) When you're in the thick of it, you just can't avoid being next to someone in some way. Being able to accelerate and brake to remain in the most visible position is pretty important, which is one more reason I prefer not to ride WOT on a freeway.

Scooter Hoot · Post by **Scooter Hoot** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 5:01 am

My most recent near misses:

Intersection of a 6 lane road and a 3 lane road - usually has a stop light. At the moment, said stop light is a twisted pile of metal on the side of the road from our hurricane. Yes, that means it's SUPPOSED to be a 4 way stop, but I will still get near run over when I'm trying to cross across on the 3 lane road by people on the 6 lane one who don't even bother to slow down. I always get very wary anytime I don't have "guardians" as I call them - cars visibly slowing down or stopping on the cross streets before I go across their lane of traffic.

I also am compulsive about staring into the rear view mirror while stopped at a traffic light until I get a guardian stopped behind me. or the nice car stopped behind you at a light. I'll frequently stay stopped behind a car at a light rather than change lanes to be the first one in line. My thinking is hopefully scooter AND car is more noticeable than a scooter by themselves if someone was going to rear end someone.

RE: riding aggressively - I was told in my MSF class that you're doing yourself a disservice to ride passively. We're motor vehicles and have to claim our space on the road. If you ride at the far right hand side of the right hand lane, you WILL have people try to share your lane. However, in Buddy vs Chevy Avalanche ... I think I'll say lay on the horn, start tapping the breaks to let the guy behind you have some warning, and if he ignores you and keeps going ... let him go. My road position is not more valuable than my life.

MarkTur · Post by **MarkTur** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:48 pm

It's absolutely AMAZING how stupid people get after a hurricane...first of all, there's really no where to go...but people want to see the damage. Fine, but please zombies, remember when lights are down, you treat every intersection like a 4-way stop sign, not your personal road in which everyone else must stop.

We've had 4 storms in the last 3-4 years...and after the first one, people were "pretty good" about driving...however, we haven't had one (thankfully) for a few seasons now, and yesterday, just yesterday, the lights were out at a major intersection, and the zombies "forgot" what to do. It was CHAOS. After 5 minutes, I turned around and went home...it wasn't that important to risk it...

For you all in Texas - please be careful, especially on 2 wheels for the next couple of weeks. People are hot, tired, angry, drunk, stoned, etc. and the last thing these cagers want to see is us, enjoying the ride.

Oh, and don't take any turns for granted. What was a perfectly clean road before the storm may be a sand trap now...

Ride safe!