[NBR] EICMA '08, new scooters!
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[NBR] EICMA '08, new scooters!
As mentioned in another thread, EICMA, the world's biggest motorcycle show, is kicking off next week in Milan and there will be a lot of new and interesting models unveiled and announced. Probably nothing from PGO, but definitely some interesting things from other companies. If rumors pan out, there will be some interesting things from Piaggio/Vespa/Aprilia, Honda and Yamaha.
A few new models have already been announced with more to come next week.
First, two Piaggio 300s: the Aprilia Scarabeo 300 and the Piaggio Carnaby Cruiser 300. (Thanks to MB Moderator Emeritus for posting the Sacarbeo to MV).
The Carnabys aren't sold in the US, but I really like the looks of this (though I prefer the Aprilia.)
A few new models have already been announced with more to come next week.
First, two Piaggio 300s: the Aprilia Scarabeo 300 and the Piaggio Carnaby Cruiser 300. (Thanks to MB Moderator Emeritus for posting the Sacarbeo to MV).
The Carnabys aren't sold in the US, but I really like the looks of this (though I prefer the Aprilia.)
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Here's a thread with some discussion of a new Honda maxi:
topic8830.html
Should have more info on this one Tuesday or Wednesday.
topic8830.html
Should have more info on this one Tuesday or Wednesday.
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Knowing Kymco,I look for them to bring this Downtown 300 into the States.
From memory a few features I remember are:
Read your tires air pressure on the dash
New compounds for the drive belt that provide major duration
Double optics headlights.One for inner carving,the other for outward looking
Permanent navigation lights being automobile like(whatever that means)
Double 4-valves&camshaft
Electronic Injection
New double axis to greatly reduce vibration at initial acceleration and high speed
Brake handles are adjustable to the size of the users hand
There's more.It sounds awesome.If this 300 makes it to the States,I'll be a checking it out.Of course,what really matters is seeing,touching,riding a new scoot,no matter what's on paper.
PS- The Kymco 700cc will be shown in it's final production look.Then it's off to production.(The US too?)
From memory a few features I remember are:
Read your tires air pressure on the dash
New compounds for the drive belt that provide major duration
Double optics headlights.One for inner carving,the other for outward looking
Permanent navigation lights being automobile like(whatever that means)
Double 4-valves&camshaft
Electronic Injection
New double axis to greatly reduce vibration at initial acceleration and high speed
Brake handles are adjustable to the size of the users hand
There's more.It sounds awesome.If this 300 makes it to the States,I'll be a checking it out.Of course,what really matters is seeing,touching,riding a new scoot,no matter what's on paper.
PS- The Kymco 700cc will be shown in it's final production look.Then it's off to production.(The US too?)
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I think the Kymco is expected in the US next year.
The Piaggio Carnaby? Nope. I don't know why they didn't introduce this line to the US, but suspect that at the time it was launched they didn't really see enough demand to make it worth brining over a modern 150 to compete with the Fly. These days, it seems that the larger-engined Piaggios and Aprilias are bigger sellers than the smaller ones. They could opt to bring over just the 300cc model, but I think that Piaggio USA is really trying to build the Aprilia line as a more stylish alternative than the Piaggios that's still less expensive than the Vespas. (One reason they've always tried to establish "Scarabeo" as a recognizable brand with its own website and so on.)
By the way, there will probably be some EICMA news posted on the Aprilia blog: http://aprilianews.blogspot.com/
Their most-recent post just mentions "new scooters."
The Piaggio Carnaby? Nope. I don't know why they didn't introduce this line to the US, but suspect that at the time it was launched they didn't really see enough demand to make it worth brining over a modern 150 to compete with the Fly. These days, it seems that the larger-engined Piaggios and Aprilias are bigger sellers than the smaller ones. They could opt to bring over just the 300cc model, but I think that Piaggio USA is really trying to build the Aprilia line as a more stylish alternative than the Piaggios that's still less expensive than the Vespas. (One reason they've always tried to establish "Scarabeo" as a recognizable brand with its own website and so on.)
By the way, there will probably be some EICMA news posted on the Aprilia blog: http://aprilianews.blogspot.com/
Their most-recent post just mentions "new scooters."
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Speaking of Kymco, just saw this news release.
Looks like tomorrow they'll be showing the Downtown 300i, 125 and 50, a new Agility (the RS), the Movie S (similar to an Agility; don't think they export it to US) and a new Super 8.
Looks like tomorrow they'll be showing the Downtown 300i, 125 and 50, a new Agility (the RS), the Movie S (similar to an Agility; don't think they export it to US) and a new Super 8.
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Re: [NBR] EICMA '08, new scooters!
Those are some nice looking automatic motorcycles. I wonder if any new scooters will be out at the show. One of these years I'll make it to Intermot, EICMA and/or the Tokyo motor show.
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Re: [NBR] EICMA '08, new scooters!
Aside from those mentioned above, the one that's rumored that I'm most curious about is the Vespa GT 850cc. Just because, well, that's insane.BGK wrote:I wonder if any new scooters will be out at the show.
Me too. I just need to find someone to pay me to go and to pay my way!One of these years I'll make it to Intermot, EICMA and/or the Tokyo motor show.
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Hmm, interesting...Kymco USA doesn't mention or show the Downtown scooter. They do have the fuel injected versions of the 250cc and 500cc Xciting scooters. Their international website shows a 300cc FI Xciting, but no mention of a "Downtown". There's also 3 different versions (although they all look alike to me) of the 500cc.
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The Downtown isn't on the main Kymco corporate site either yet, so they're probably awaiting the official unveiling. Or, like a lot of companies, just take a while to update their sites.babblefish wrote:Hmm, interesting...Kymco USA doesn't mention or show the Downtown scooter. They do have the fuel injected versions of the 250cc and 500cc Xciting scooters. Their international website shows a 300cc FI Xciting, but no mention of a "Downtown". There's also 3 different versions (although they all look alike to me) of the 500cc.
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Early Results from the EICMA Election!!!
Early Results from the EICMA Election!!!
Wonder what the "Sw" is, other than a twin?EICMA News Release wrote: Japan and Italy like together for Honda
The presentation of the new Honda scooters on the opening day of the 66th edition of the Milan Bicycle and Motorcycle show confirms the strong
links created between the Japanese company and Italy thanks to the factory in Atessa, to where the hugely popular Sh scooters are made. The Sh
model is 25 years old but is still the best selling scooter in Italy.
The latest model of the Sh was the star of the show, with the new Sw also unveiled to the press at the Convention Centre at the Milan Exhibition centre, during to presentation called `New Beginnings'.
Honda Europe's president Shigeru Takagi provided details of the Japanese company's results and was pleased with 13 million scooter and
motorbike sales around the world. The objective for 2009 is to continuous to please Honda clients thanks to further research and development and
the creation of products that are both safe and ecological.
The Sh series was officially unveiled and yet again was received with applause. It was first created in 1984 and has continued to be successful and to inspire to growth in sales ever since. The new model has to fluid designs, with soft angles that offers an elegant and also aggressive look. It is made in Italy thanks to
the work of the engineers and technicians in Atessa, the central town of Chieti.
The Sw model is to unique new model because it is the first twin-cylinder scooter in its class, combining reliability with ecology. (My emphasis...)
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Don't know much more about this yet, but it's gorgeous. Check out the sidecar mount in the first pic.
Hopefully, unlike the MP3 roof and trailer, this will actually be produced.
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It's own right hand side turn signals and headlight! How fancy.
if this thing would be produced, it'll probably be 3000 just for the side car, vespa making everything all metal, that is a major cost, plus it having it's own electrical system, that's a nice addition too.
I think it's cool.I personally like the design of the side car for the stella, but the vespas have been lacking a official side car for their modern bikes until now.
if this thing would be produced, it'll probably be 3000 just for the side car, vespa making everything all metal, that is a major cost, plus it having it's own electrical system, that's a nice addition too.
I think it's cool.I personally like the design of the side car for the stella, but the vespas have been lacking a official side car for their modern bikes until now.
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The mount is just under the scooter. I have to wonder if the sidecar's just made for this GTV—maybe a special edition?
Wouldn't surprise me if the sidecar was fiberglass or plastic on a steel frame.
As I mentioned on MV, the spare tire looks cool but is probably of limited utility.
Wouldn't surprise me if the sidecar was fiberglass or plastic on a steel frame.
As I mentioned on MV, the spare tire looks cool but is probably of limited utility.
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There are some Honda photos here but the gallery is a pain to use. I can get to the individual photos but don't know what's new and which is the twin-cyl "SW" model.
Probably this, which looks like a new Silverwing to me:
The this would be the SH? Silverhawk, maybe?
Probably this, which looks like a new Silverwing to me:
The this would be the SH? Silverhawk, maybe?
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Re: [NBR] EICMA '08, new scooters!
Heh, I totally missed your sarcasm here on my first read, but I know what you mean. The industry is definitely moving towards bigger scooters of all styles. Consumers seem to want bigger rides. I love my 125 and 150 (uh, 190) and think they're perfect for the kind of riding I do 90% of the time. If I lived in another city, though, who knows?BGK wrote:Those are some nice looking automatic motorcycles. I wonder if any new scooters will be out at the show.
I was never a fan of the maxiscoots until Scarabeo 500. The Piaggio BV 500 is also not bad-looking. But these modern things like the Honda above don't appeal to me at all. I hope with all this push for more CCs, companies don't forget about those of us who are quite happy in the 125-200cc range.
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I just hope some of the manufacturers will realize that some of us here in the US would like to ride the scooters sold everywhere else in the world (talking about high performance sports scooters) and start importing them here.
If my Blur ever gets to the point where it can't be repaired, it's back to motorcycles again since there's nothing that's small (250cc and down) available here that really interests me.
If my Blur ever gets to the point where it can't be repaired, it's back to motorcycles again since there's nothing that's small (250cc and down) available here that really interests me.
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Re: [NBR] EICMA '08, new scooters!
+1. I don't get it either. Why not just get a motorcycle? But I do agree the Scarabeo 500 (and the Piaggio BV500) are awesome looking maxi's. But the only reason we think they look awesome is because they look like smaller displacement scooters. They don't have the suppository look of most maxi's. It's not so much a displacement issue as it's a styling issue. Although, along with added weight the scooter looses it's fun handling. For fun, nothing beats a 50cc to 200cc.ericalm wrote:Heh, I totally missed your sarcasm here on my first read, but I know what you mean. The industry is definitely moving towards bigger scooters of all styles. Consumers seem to want bigger rides. I love my 125 and 150 (uh, 190) and think they're perfect for the kind of riding I do 90% of the time. If I lived in another city, though, who knows?BGK wrote:Those are some nice looking automatic motorcycles. I wonder if any new scooters will be out at the show.
I was never a fan of the maxiscoots until Scarabeo 500. The Piaggio BV 500 is also not bad-looking. But these modern things like the Honda above don't appeal to me at all. I hope with all this push for more CCs, companies don't forget about those of us who are quite happy in the 125-200cc range.
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Re: [NBR] EICMA '08, new scooters!
Well… I don't like the looks of them, but I also don't belong to the "why not just get a motorcycle?" camp. To me, the answer is: "Because this is just another form of two-wheeled transport that offers some different features and benefits." It's like asking why someone gets an automatic hatchback instead of a manual coupe—all in the same family, just a matter of preference and what suits you. Also, some of these scooters seem to be hitting some "sweet spots" where you get more for your money than you would with a lot of motorcycles or, like the 300CC scooters, offering people who are already scooterists something to "step up" to.k1dude wrote:+1. I don't get it either. Why not just get a motorcycle? But I do agree the Scarabeo 500 (and the Piaggio BV500) are awesome looking maxi's. But the only reason we think they look awesome is because they look like smaller displacement scooters. They don't have the suppository look of most maxi's. It's not so much a displacement issue as it's a styling issue. Although, along with added weight the scooter looses it's fun handling. For fun, nothing beats a 50cc to 200cc.
From purely anecdotal evidence and observation, in the US, most maxis seem to appeal to first-time scooter owners looking for something easier and less expensive than a touring-sized MC. Outside the US, I don't think that there's nearly as much cultural and practical distinction between scooters and motorcycles (aside from vintage vs. modern).
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Re: [NBR] EICMA '08, new scooters!
You're probably right. I'm letting my personal preferences get the better of me. But if more motorcycles came with auto transmissions I might argue with you a little more.ericalm wrote:Well… I don't like the looks of them, but I also don't belong to the "why not just get a motorcycle?" camp. To me, the answer is: "Because this is just another form of two-wheeled transport that offers some different features and benefits." It's like asking why someone gets an automatic hatchback instead of a manual coupe—all in the same family, just a matter of preference and what suits you. Also, some of these scooters seem to be hitting some "sweet spots" where you get more for your money than you would with a lot of motorcycles or, like the 300CC scooters, offering people who are already scooterists something to "step up" to.
From purely anecdotal evidence and observation, in the US, most maxis seem to appeal to first-time scooter owners looking for something easier and less expensive than a touring-sized MC. Outside the US, I don't think that there's nearly as much cultural and practical distinction between scooters and motorcycles (aside from vintage vs. modern).
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Re: [NBR] EICMA '08, new scooters!
Ya, I'm just not sure if it's what people want or what people think they want. Name the two scooters that really took the market by storm across about every demographic; the Ruckus and the Buddy 125. Both are small scooters by form. But they keep cranking out bigger and bigger scooters. I just find it interesting that the really big sellers that I see ridden all over town and used for the purpose intended are about the same size as useful scooters have always been for the last 50 years. It's just a competition between marques that, unfortunately, the consumer ends up being a casualty. When there is a sufficient number of manufacturers of good product, the easy way out to differentiate is to go bigger. It takes a lot less creativity to stuff a larger motor in than it does to make the same product better from a practical standpoint. I'd think it would be more wise to go BETTER. But I'm not in the scooter biz.
ericalm wrote:Heh, I totally missed your sarcasm here on my first read, but I know what you mean. The industry is definitely moving towards bigger scooters of all styles. Consumers seem to want bigger rides. I love my 125 and 150 (uh, 190) and think they're perfect for the kind of riding I do 90% of the time. If I lived in another city, though, who knows?BGK wrote:Those are some nice looking automatic motorcycles. I wonder if any new scooters will be out at the show.
I was never a fan of the maxiscoots until Scarabeo 500. The Piaggio BV 500 is also not bad-looking. But these modern things like the Honda above don't appeal to me at all. I hope with all this push for more CCs, companies don't forget about those of us who are quite happy in the 125-200cc range.
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Re: [NBR] EICMA '08, new scooters!
100% agree. Well said.ericalm wrote:Well… I don't like the looks of them, but I also don't belong to the "why not just get a motorcycle?" camp. To me, the answer is: "Because this is just another form of two-wheeled transport that offers some different features and benefits." It's like asking why someone gets an automatic hatchback instead of a manual coupe—all in the same family, just a matter of preference and what suits you. Also, some of these scooters seem to be hitting some "sweet spots" where you get more for your money than you would with a lot of motorcycles or, like the 300CC scooters, offering people who are already scooterists something to "step up" to.k1dude wrote:+1. I don't get it either. Why not just get a motorcycle? But I do agree the Scarabeo 500 (and the Piaggio BV500) are awesome looking maxi's. But the only reason we think they look awesome is because they look like smaller displacement scooters. They don't have the suppository look of most maxi's. It's not so much a displacement issue as it's a styling issue. Although, along with added weight the scooter looses it's fun handling. For fun, nothing beats a 50cc to 200cc.
50% agree. In the European market, which I am a bit familiar with because I lived there, there are huge distinctions in the cultures and there is a major division in the motorcycle culture which is transparent to us in the USA. The division which doesn't exist in the USA is the "adventure touring" market, which is almost invisible in the USA, but which is a huge motorcycle market segment in Europe. Most Americans have never even heard of something called the Paris - Dakar race, but that event is (was) a BIG DEAL in Europe and drives (or used to drive) the whole adventure touring bike market (and culture). Then you have the sport bike culture in Europe which is *totally* about motorcycle racing culture, which is a big deal there. Again, most folks in the USA have never heard of MotoGP or World Superbike racing. The culture surrounding sportbikes there is amazing, with most riders dressed head-to-toe racing quality leathers and boots and helmets and (frequently) sporting the colors and logos of their favorite racing hero (GO!!!!!!! Valentino Rossi!). Scooterists are quite a different culture from that, mostly being centered around youthful and stylishly-dressed commuters.ericalm wrote:From purely anecdotal evidence and observation, in the US, most maxis seem to appeal to first-time scooter owners looking for something easier and less expensive than a touring-sized MC. Outside the US, I don't think that there's nearly as much cultural and practical distinction between scooters and motorcycles (aside from vintage vs. modern).
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It's because they have graduated licensing by displacement of the motor. Smaller motor, easier to get license.k1dude wrote:I also notice that scooters probably outnumber motorcycles in Europe 100 to 1. Whereas in the US, motorcycles probably outnumber scooters 200 to 1. I have no facts, just anecdotal observation.
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About the Honda announcement, if you scan the Italian-language sites, you'll see that all the excitement is about a fresh design of two scooters we don't even get in the USA the SH125 and the SH150. What's the big woop? You might well ask. Here's the big woop. Take a quick look at the sales chart ("Mercato") down below. That represents year-to-date scooter sales, just in Italy, for the first 9 months of 2008. Look at the top sellers. The Honda SH150 has sold 15,864 of that one model alone, just in Italy through September! That's amazing. How amazing? By way of comparison, I've heard that Genuine's sales in all of the USA are somewhere in the neighborhood of 10,000 units. That means that in 9 months the SH150 alone will have outsold all of Genuine sales in all of the USA by about 3 to 2. That's astonishing! Then, add sales of the SH125 and the numbers get even more amazing. Those two models together sold 29,516 units, almost 30,000 units in Italy alone in the first 9 months of the year. That's about 3 to 1 over all Genuine sales in all of the USA. And that's why a redesign of the SH series scooters are an earth-shakingly big deal in the Italian press. Here's a nice pic of the new SH150i, so you'll know what I'm babbling about.
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Wow. That SH150i is one nice looking scooter. I wonder if they plan on bringing them here? If they would make one in a 250i or 300i that looked the same, I would be all over it. I'd buy it over almost any other make. I've always been a big honda fan, just not the scooter styles they currently sell here in the US.
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You mean like this? The Honda SH300i (now also SH300i ABS)??? Available at your local Honda Italy dealer already in a 2008 model? That scooter? Can you feel my frustration?!?k1dude wrote:Wow. That SH150i is one nice looking scooter. I wonder if they plan on bringing them here? If they would make one in a 250i or 300i that looked the same, I would be all over it. I'd buy it over almost any other make. I've always been a big honda fan, just not the scooter styles they currently sell here in the US.
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Whoa! No way. A 300i with a flat floorboard made by Honda. Yup. That's my next scoot. Get it here already dammit Honda! Why do we never get the good stuff in cars, scoots, and electronics? Europe and Asia always gets the good stuff.jrsjr wrote:You mean like this? The Honda SH300i (now also SH300i ABS)??? Available at your local Honda Italy dealer already in a 2008 model? That scooter? Can you feel my frustration?!?
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I was just thinking the same thing, at least in regards to scoots. This one looks like it has most if not all of the things I'm looking for.k1dude wrote:Whoa! No way. A 300i with a flat floorboard made by Honda. Yup. That's my next scoot. Get it here already dammit Honda! Why do we never get the good stuff in cars, scoots, and electronics? Europe and Asia always gets the good stuff.jrsjr wrote:You mean like this? The Honda SH300i (now also SH300i ABS)??? Available at your local Honda Italy dealer already in a 2008 model? That scooter? Can you feel my frustration?!?
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It gets worse. That motor in that bike is based on the CRF motor and it has a ton of stomp. That bad boy can go almost 100 miles per hour! Even worse is the fact that the SH300i is actually built in Italy so it's native currency is the euro which (despite recent falls) is still sky-high against the dollar. Honda could import them, but they'd be too expensive. Disappointed? Yeah, you and everybody else. Economic reality is a bear. There's just no getting around it.k1dude wrote:Whoa! No way. A 300i with a flat floorboard made by Honda. Yup. That's my next scoot. Get it here already dammit Honda! Why do we never get the good stuff in cars, scoots, and electronics? Europe and Asia always gets the good stuff.jrsjr wrote:You mean like this? The Honda SH300i (now also SH300i ABS)??? Available at your local Honda Italy dealer already in a 2008 model? That scooter? Can you feel my frustration?!?
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Not many pics of these (may update with better ones tomorrow) but some interesting designs for the new Nipponia scooters. Despite the name, they're a Greek company that rebadges Chinese scoots for sale overseas. This is their "new scooter" line, designed by the guy who designed the Toyota Yaris (according to 2strokebuzz). Don't know what's under the hood or if these are new bodies with old guts…
Eric // LA Scooter Meetup Group // Stella 4T // Vespa LX // Vespa LXS // Honda Helix // some, uh, projects…
- jrsjr
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Shhh... don't tell anybody but I actually think that Nipponia scoot looks very cool. That's about as far as you can go with a commercial design. It almost looks like a concept model, except supposedly it's a proddy scooter. If it turns out to be cool plastic on a junk China scoot, it'll be a huge disappointment. We'll see.
The SW turn out to be a refinement of the Silver Wing as I had been told. Having recently ridden a Silver Wing 600 cross country, I can tell you that every refinement I see looks great to me. I love the new dash, it's wonderful. They've tightened up the whole appearance a lot, both front, side and rear. The new 400 manages to look somehow sportier and classier at the same time, and that's not an easy thing to do. The fact that they've refined the motor and brakes is very welcome, too. If they refine the Silver Wing 600 the same way, they should have no trouble selling them in the USA in 2010. And that's a wrap for my 2008 EICMA watch. 'Til next year...
The SW turn out to be a refinement of the Silver Wing as I had been told. Having recently ridden a Silver Wing 600 cross country, I can tell you that every refinement I see looks great to me. I love the new dash, it's wonderful. They've tightened up the whole appearance a lot, both front, side and rear. The new 400 manages to look somehow sportier and classier at the same time, and that's not an easy thing to do. The fact that they've refined the motor and brakes is very welcome, too. If they refine the Silver Wing 600 the same way, they should have no trouble selling them in the USA in 2010. And that's a wrap for my 2008 EICMA watch. 'Til next year...
Last edited by jrsjr on Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- k1dude
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Waaaaaah!!!!!!!jrsjr wrote:It gets worse. That motor in that bike is based on the CRF motor and it has a ton of stomp. That bad boy can go almost 100 miles per hour! Even worse is the fact that the SH300i is actually built in Italy so it's native currency is the euro which (despite recent falls) is still sky-high against the dollar. Honda could import them, but they'd be too expensive. Disappointed? Yeah, you and everybody else. Economic reality is a bear. There's just no getting around it.
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There are some good photos from EICMA on this site:
http://www.omnimoto.it/foto/
Lots of nice shots of the scooters already discussed above. There's an interesting red-white-green Italian version of the Gilera Fuoco (MP3 500), pic below. Also, the Gilera GP 850 Corsa, which has crossed the line from scooter to motorcycle by the looks of it.
And, finally, looks like that Vespa sidecar is just a prototype. We'll never see it!
http://www.omnimoto.it/foto/
Lots of nice shots of the scooters already discussed above. There's an interesting red-white-green Italian version of the Gilera Fuoco (MP3 500), pic below. Also, the Gilera GP 850 Corsa, which has crossed the line from scooter to motorcycle by the looks of it.
And, finally, looks like that Vespa sidecar is just a prototype. We'll never see it!
Eric // LA Scooter Meetup Group // Stella 4T // Vespa LX // Vespa LXS // Honda Helix // some, uh, projects…
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Pic of one of those Nipponia models (big version here):
This "Renzo" is not one of the models listed on their site in the "New Scooter Range," so who knows what it is? (It's not in their motorcycle list either.) There's very little in the press about these at this point. It certainly shows that they put some money into the design, though.
This "Renzo" is not one of the models listed on their site in the "New Scooter Range," so who knows what it is? (It's not in their motorcycle list either.) There's very little in the press about these at this point. It certainly shows that they put some money into the design, though.
Eric // LA Scooter Meetup Group // Stella 4T // Vespa LX // Vespa LXS // Honda Helix // some, uh, projects…