Can't decide - Vespa LX150 or Buddy??!

[Larry J]

Hi everyone,

Been reading everything I can find about these two scooters and can't make up my mind which one to get. I've owned three motorcycles in the past; Honda Trail 90, Suzuki 650 Savage and the latest - a Honda 750 Shadow Spirit. I would like to get back in the saddle after years of watching scooters evolve into what I see as a better way of enjoying the road. There are Suzuki/Yamaha and Honda dealers here in town, as well as Schwinn scooters and a new Vespa dealership about 90 miles from me. The closest Buddy dealers are in Seattle or Portland so I'm concerned about getting warranty work done. Almost got a Majesty but decided it would be more fun to get a smaller bike instead since I don't plan on doing much cross country riding.

So... Buddy or Vespa LX150? ( by the way, I'm 59 years old, 6'2" and 230 lbs )

[Keys]

My humble opinion is that there really isn't that much difference between the two. Similar speeds, similar size, etc, etc. Sure, the Vespa will have various things that are just a wee bit better, but on the other hand, so will the Buddy. My point is that for two very similar machines, why waste the extra grand and a half for the Vespa name? Of course, in my household a grand and a half is a fortune...

--Keys

[San Francisco]

Isn't the Vespa about $2500 more than the Buddy? So price is a factor to consider.

On the warranty issue, you should check to see if it can be worked on by a local shop. Sometimes manufacturers authorize that if one is in the sticks [no offense intended]. These scooters are all the same in terms of maintenance and tune-ups, like working on a Briggs & Stratton.

You could also consider getting the maintenance done locally and only if something major happens, trailer the Buddy to the dealer. Of course, this requires you take the gamble that nothing major will happen. I suspect nothing ever will.

But, if all this is a hassle, maybe you should look at the local dealer's Yamaha's Vino. Those are nice.

As to size, the Buddy can handle you, but I think with a passenger you would be straining the scooter and getting close to the max load, per the specs. While the Buddy can handle you and a passenger, you might not want to go anywhere but the market. And hills, if there are any where you live, I'd say the Buddy won't make it with you and a passenger.

[SteMer]

The LX150 and the Buddy seemed to be somewhat comparable when I started looking but then noticed the price difference. I think that's what you'll have to think through. Is the LX150 worth the extra $$ to have a dealer close by? Or would the money saved help pay for any trips (if necessary) to the closest Genuine dealer?

So how is the Palm Springs of Washington? (I went to college in Spokane.)

[BlueMark]

Put the financing together for the Vespa, and get two Buddies instead. Riding side by side is much better than two up. (Don't know if that is an issue, but other posts brought it up.)

[ericalm]

I own both and can tell you there are some pretty significant differences. Some are subtle, the kinds of things you'd get adjust to in time. Others are more fundamental: beyond the specs, the scoots have there own characters.

Here's what I had to say in other threads:

How do you like your Buddy compared to your Vespa?

Here's what I initially wrote about the two in this thread:

The weight is more evenly distributed on the LX because, I guess, of the steel body. Most of the Buddy's weight is low and in the center/engine area. This makes the LX feel heavier, though it isn't. It also means that it leans quite differently; it takes more effort to turn and you really feel it lean a lot more. At the same time, it seems to me like the LX has wider lean angles. This means that in some ways it's harder to control the LX, but the rider may have more control at times because it's tilting under force you're exerting over it.

In comparison, the Buddy feels "loose." It tilts easily; I hit kickstand my first time out on it, which has never happened on the LX. When combined with its zip, this makes the Buddy a fun ride that corners and handles with ease at fairly high speed. But as has been noted elsewhere, this contributes to the "overconfidence factor." For me, this means just having to be a lot more conscious of how much control I really have when maneuvering because it's quite tempting to drive it at its limits.

Jess described the Buddy as "twitchier" than an LX, which I think is a pretty good characterization. The two offer very different riding experiences, but I think that's in their intent and design. A Vespa is a very idiosynchratic machine, but it's definitely a few steps up in terms of build and finish; to me, it's a more mature, sophisticated ride. The Buddy is sort of like a teenager, eager, fearless, capable of doing all the "adult" things, perhaps even faster, but not as smoothly.

A lot of people have made analogies to cars, but basically it's like saying not all 4-cylinder coupes are the same. You should definitely look at each one, sit on them, try to see how comfortable each is for you. At 6' 2", the Buddy may feel a little small. I'm sure lots of people will chime in to say they're 7' tall and can ride comfortably for hours. I'm 5' 11" and have size 12 boots—that's good for less than an hour of comfortable uninterrupted Buddy riding.

As I've said before, I think the Kymco People is a much closer competitor to the Buddy: similar price and quality, good specs, larger wheels. A good ride, but maybe not quite as fun.

[smorris]

The Buddy is quicker off the line than the LX. I sure couldn't get a jump on the gang here in Cleveland on the ride last fall. We never got to open it up enough to see how they compared at higher speeds. Supposedly, the LX is a little more stable at higher speeds, which could have something to the weight distribution described above, steering geometry, CG, etc. I think the Buddy gets better gas mileage over the long run. I started out averaging 65 MPG, but now with a more aggressive riding style, I average 58 MPG. We'll see what happens to that when I get the engine back in. My LX is now a 190cc scoot!

Repairs on a steel monocoque chassis would be more expensive than with replaceable plastic panels. I think POC Phil replaced half a dozen on one for under $200. Resale value retention on the LX should be higher due to name recognition.

Practicality says get a Buddy, Kymco, or look at an in-between alternative, the Piaggio Fly. All the same mechanicals as the LX, but with a tube frame and plastic panels like the Buddy, plus larger wheels for a little more stability. Current models are Italian, next years will be Chinese.

Whatever you get, get good gear, and enjoy!
Steve

[Larry J]

I just watched the You-Tube "In search of Vespa" series and it made me realize that part of my desire to own a Vespa was knowing their history and respecting the craftmanship that has gone into the developement of their scooters over the last 60 years. Resale value may be important for future trade in or up considerations and while Buddy seems to be a very fine example of current production trends, I find it fascinating to feel that if I get a Vespa, I will be in a small way be contributing to the further success of a fine old company in a day when nothing seems to last more than a few years... comments?

[smorris]

Well, I am biased. LX, after all, is the Roman numeral for 60, which is the anniversary that Vespa celebrated last year.

Piaggio (Vespa's parent company) is still a huge business, though, and the American reverence for the brand does not seem to have too much influence on them. Also, vintage Vespa riders doen't particularly welcome modern scooters into the fold, Vespa or otherwise. It is changing, but don't think you will automatically become part of the "scooter culture" of days gone by.

It is mostly a decision of what you expect and want from your scooter. I chose the Vespa LX because it was the size and weight that I wanted for me (5' 8", 180# ) and very maneuverable in town. I chose the Vespa over an LT (the predecessor of the Fly) or the Kymco (the Buddy was not available yet) because my Dad rode a Vespa 125 in the mid-'50s with me riding with him. I wanted a modern scooter as close as I could get to the one he had. (He rode mine last May, the first time he had been on a scooter in 50 years. He was grinning ear to ear!)

Stop on over at Modern Vespa (Jess' other forum) if you decide on a Vespa.

[San Francisco]

I just watched the You-Tube "In search of Vespa" series and it made me realize that part of my desire to own a Vespa was knowing their history and respecting the craftmanship that has gone into the developement of their scooters over the last 60 years. Resale value may be important for future trade in or up considerations and while Buddy seems to be a very fine example of current production trends, I find it fascinating to feel that if I get a Vespa, I will be in a small way be contributing to the further success of a fine old company in a day when nothing seems to last more than a few years... comments?

Well that is the same logic that all of us adhere to on the Ducati boards I belong to. Something special about owning a Ducati to where we pay a premium for a bike that techincally is not much different than bikes costing $8k to $12k less.

I have just not felt the same for the Vespa, mostly because I am only willing to spend so much for cachet. But as to others I can certainly relate to anyone who would get a Vespa for the same reasons we buy Ducati.

Maybe in the future I might buy some 40 year old Vespa as a collectors item, but not to tool around town.

[Larry J]

So how is the Palm Springs of Washington?

Whoever came up with that probably spent too much time in "Wine Country" our other tourist catch phrase, although there are a lot more similarities to our wine than their weather...

[gt1000]

I suppose I can be included in a group with San Francisco. I'm willing to spend somewhat more for a Ducati, BMW, KTM or even Triumph motorcycle than a more typical Asian brand, but I tend to choke a bit on Vespa prices. Part of the reason is price but a bigger part of the reason may be that the bikes from Ducati, BMW and KTM are significantly different technically than their Japanese counterparts. Yes, they look different too. Just like Vespas look different compared to a Kymco or a Buddy. I guess my problem is that Vespas, while looking different, don't offer anything tangibly different compared to many other scooters. Yes, they will ride differently but the differences to me are subtle at best.

Vespa LX vs. Buddy vs. People 150. A toss-up to me. Ride them all and buy the one that fits the best.

Vespa PX vs Stella? Even more of a toss-up.

Vespas, especially the small frames, are beautiful little sculptures. If that's important to you and you have the extra 2 grand, you'd be happier with the Vespa. But, even Ducati is realizing they need to moderate prices, just look at the pricing structure of the new 1098. If Piaggio is serious about expansion and competition, maybe they'll try to emulate Ducati and make their fine product a bit more competitive price wise.

[Bryce-O-Rama]

Vespa LX vs. Buddy vs. People 150. A toss-up to me. Ride them all and buy the one that fits the best.

Agreed. All of them have their pros and cons. I like the Buddy though. It's fun. I wouldn't call it "twitchy" like Jess did. I would call it agile and easy to toss around.

Vespa PX vs Stella? Even more of a toss-up.

2 years ago, were I desiring to have either, I would have picked the Stella. It is more powerful, came in more colors, and was much less than a PX while being about 95% the same. Vespa really should have brought the PX200 here instead and given it the same MSRP as the PX150.

[San Francisco]

But, even Ducati is realizing they need to moderate prices, just look at the pricing structure of the new 1098.

I came very close to plunking down cash for a 1098 last week. But then I came to my senses, which I guess is a good thing.

What motivated me to consider buying new, as opposed to my usual practice of buying used, was Ducati's new lower pricing on the 1098.

[femsatronic]

Based on cost of aftercare, parts availability and parts costs the Buddy is the only choice.

[Corsair]

For us it was Buddy or Vino... Then it became Buddy or Vespa LX... as of two days ago we have a brand new Ruby Red Buddy! As many great things that can be said about both scooters I think the price, color, and feel won over Lojical1 (but you may one want ask her why she choose the Buddy over the Vespa).

Down the line we may end up with a Vespa GTS250... maybe (definitely still keeping the Buddies)

[Larry J]

There seems to be a concensus that Vespa may be a better product but not enough better to justify the price difference. Yet I wonder how many of the alternative choices will be seen on the used market 30, 20 or even 10 years from now. There are a lot of Vespas offered as restored, rebuilt or well maintained on the used market which says something for their percieved quality... will there be a Buddy collectors market? Judging buy the welcome they have received, it very well may happen.

[Bryce-O-Rama]

It's hard to say whether or not any of the scooters today will have enough of a following to be heirlooms or even around in 40 years. Most products today are designed to be somewhat disposable (recyclable if we're lucky), and much less serviceable or able to be rebuilt.

I love plastic scooters, but whether or not the panels will be available in 15 years is anyone's guess. In fact, I would bet the Taiwanese and Japanese will be the most likely to offer those things. The Europeans will have long moved on to the latest and greatest thing. The P-series aside, Vespa hasn't tended to make any one model for all that long and has not supported them for any tremendous length of time thereafter. They don't make parts for the Rally 200 or SS 180 anymore.

Enjoy your scooters in the now, because who knows what will happen next week, much less 30-40 years off.

[mlstephens]

Yet I wonder how many of the alternative choices will be seen on the used market 30, 20 or even 10 years from now. There are a lot of Vespas offered as restored, rebuilt or well maintained on the used market which says something for their percieved quality... will there be a Buddy collectors market? Judging buy the welcome they have received, it very well may happen.

I doubt that many CVT plastic-bodied scooters will ever be considered collectible, or important enough to be cared about 20 years from now. Maybe some of the modern CVT Vespas, but even at that they don't have the same cachet and are unlikely to have "vintage" appeal that the manual transmission metal-bodied two-strokes do. As much as I like my Buddy, and it may last a long time, I doubt that it will ever remotely be considered collectible.

[ericalm]

All I can say is that if the Stella goes back into production (hopeful, yet not holding my breath), there will be a long series of discussions in my household about who'd be the first to get one.

[BlueMark]

I doubt that many CVT plastic-bodied scooters will ever be considered collectible, or important enough to be cared about 20 years from now.

Yeah same with cars ... which is why the Corvette will never be considered a classic. (snark)

Plastic is fairly easy to fabricate, even by amateurs. I can see a restoration/customizing movement growing around some of the high quality plastic scoots as they reach 'classic' age.

-Mark

[SirLexelot]

To the original poster: just because I don't think I saw it mentioned anywhere here, don't forget about looking for a used Vespa ET4. It's slightly faster than the LX150, and you can probably get a very decent price on a used model.

But if new is your game, the Buddy simply can't be beat. It's got better acceleration, I think it looks better, it has a better warranty, it's FAR cheaper once you factor in all the BS vespa crate fees and such (compare the actual OTD prices, MSRP won't tell you much), and it's bound to be more reliable.

If you're going with a new Vespa, get something like the GTS where there really is not direct market competitor. And no, the People 250 and S250 are not direct competitors because their seating position and styling are so different from the GTS, they're not fuel injected, and they just don't look as good

Anyway, that's my opinion.

[Bryce-O-Rama]

I doubt that many CVT plastic-bodied scooters will ever be considered collectible, or important enough to be cared about 20 years from now.

Yeah same with cars ... which is why the Corvette will never be considered a classic. (snark)

Plastic is fairly easy to fabricate, even by amateurs. I can see a restoration/customizing movement growing around some of the high quality plastic scoots as they reach 'classic' age.

-Mark

Fiberglass is easy to fabricate, but it is technically a composite and not a plastic. Plastics like ABS are not quite so easy to fabricate in low volumes. At least not in the complex shapes that scooters have, and not at super low prices. On the other hand, fiberglass is the solution to that problem. All of the plastic panels could be made in the backyard by an industrious scooter collector. It would be a lot of work, but it's feasible.

[gt1000]

I actually have my eye on a red Stella that's parked in my building and hasn't moved in months. It has a bit over 800 miles on it and a nice, thick insulating coat of dust. If I can figure out who owns it I'll attempt to relieve the owner of his burden.

As far as trying to predict what in today's pop culture will be collectible in the future? Good luck. Beanie babies anyone? Vintage Barbie dolls? !960's era muscle cars? Oh-my-god.

Vehicles are money pits. If you honestly think that any new vehicle you buy is a "good investment" I'd like to sell you some swamp land in Tucson. Driving off the lot in your new BMW is just like taking a roll of hundreds and setting fire to it. Scooters and motorcycles are the same but on smaller scales. Sure, you might get lucky and wind up owning that one model that everyone's looking for in 15 years. But, will you still own it?

Like Bryce said, enjoy in the now. These suckers are fun.

[mlstephens]

I actually have my eye on a red Stella that's parked in my building and hasn't moved in months. It has a bit over 800 miles on it and a nice, thick insulating coat of dust.
....
Like Bryce said, enjoy in the now. These suckers are fun.

I am in the process of acquiring an '03 Red Stella with ~500 miles on it. The deal is done, I just need to have it transported, hopefully next month. More fun!

[Puddle Jumper]

Congrats on the Stella purchases!
Not sure if I should start a fresh thread to get U-in-the-know riders to respond... but here goes....
[quote="SirLexelot"]..... don't forget about looking for a used Vespa ET4. It's slightly faster than the LX150, and you can probably get a very decent price on a used model.quote]

Yes... you can find the LX150 and ET4 at prices close to the price of a new Buddy... so putting the enticing warrenty aside.... what would a 20 mile commute thru 30-55mph residential/slightly rural areas be more comfortable/fun on for a 5'3, 108 person? (sometimes a 5'6 will "borrow")(stop,stop, go,go, schools, trucks, train tracks)

Just how does a LX compare to an ET and Buddy mechanically and response wise? reliability? (Someone had mentioned the mentioned Vespa's and Buddy are basically the same... so where are the discrepancies?)

Really appreciate your oppinions!!!
p.s. Stopped in at Scooter works in Chicago.. FUN! and the newbies are basically going for the Buddies... all the experienced riders that came in for maintenance issues had or wanted to trade up to a Stella. Nice.. but seemed pretty wide for shorter legs... darn.. and prefer automatic.

[ericalm]

Yes... you can find the LX150 and ET4 at prices close to the price of a new Buddy... so putting the enticing warrenty aside.... what would a 20 mile commute thru 30-55mph residential/slightly rural areas be more comfortable/fun on for a 5'3, 108 person? (sometimes a 5'6 will "borrow")(stop,stop, go,go, schools, trucks, train tracks)

Just how does a LX compare to an ET and Buddy mechanically and response wise? reliability? (Someone had mentioned the mentioned Vespa's and Buddy are basically the same... so where are the discrepancies?)

Really appreciate your oppinions!!!
p.s. Stopped in at Scooter works in Chicago.. FUN! and the newbies are basically going for the Buddies... all the experienced riders that came in for maintenance issues had or wanted to trade up to a Stella. Nice.. but seemed pretty wide for shorter legs... darn.. and prefer automatic.

If you're 5'3", you may have trouble with the LX or ET, which have higher seats than the Bud. I'm 5' 11" with a 30" inseam and would have trouble if I was a couple inches shorter. You can lower the shocks and have the seat shaved a couple inches lower. Boots help, too.

In terms of reliability, the LX and ET are both quite sound provided they've been properly maintained. The Buddy is more responsive in some ways (quicker throttle, easier to lean, etc.) making it easier to ride, especially for a first timer. The one issue with the Buddy, considering your weight, is that it doesn't handle as well in high winds (the Weeble Effect) and is less stable at high speeds (55+ mph or so).

See there's that demand for Stellas we were discussing in another thread!

[vitaminC]

I actually have my eye on a red Stella that's parked in my building and hasn't moved in months. It has a bit over 800 miles on it and a nice, thick insulating coat of dust. If I can figure out who owns it I'll attempt to relieve the owner of his burden.

Just leave a note on it! That's how I picked up my (now ex) Bajaj for a whole $500!

[vitaminC]

There seems to be a concensus that Vespa may be a better product but not enough better to justify the price difference. Yet I wonder how many of the alternative choices will be seen on the used market 30, 20 or even 10 years from now.

Of course, if you consider which scooters were available 20-30 years ago, it seems like the reason you still lots of old Vespas now is because back then there were lots of new Vespas!

There are a lot of Vespas offered as restored, rebuilt or well maintained on the used market which says something for their percieved quality...

I don't think it says as much about the quality of scoot, it's more just that people really like them! If everyone based their purchases on what was available 'back in the day', there sure would be a lot less Camry's on the road! At the same time, a Camry doesn't have any 'cool factor', so I doubt you'll see a lot of people restoring them 30 years from now...

[ericalm]

There are a lot of Vespas offered as restored, rebuilt or well maintained on the used market which says something for their percieved quality... will there be a Buddy collectors market? Judging buy the welcome they have received, it very well may happen.

Beware of restored Vespas which look "too good." Lots of really bad restorations coming into the US from Vietnam—beautiful on the outside, totally screwed up on the inside.

As far as a Buddy collector's market, I think we live in an age when everything is collectible (thanks, eBay!). 8 Tracks, AMC Pacers, obscure DJ mix tapes, Laserdiscs, Fisher Price little people—given enough time, there will be someone or some subculture that decides that even the most disposable cultural artifacts are cool enough to collect.

[Puddle Jumper]

In terms of reliability, the LX and ET are both quite sound provided they've been properly maintained. The Buddy is more responsive in some ways (quicker throttle, easier to lean, etc.) making it easier to ride, especially for a first timer. The one issue with the Buddy, considering your weight, is that it doesn't handle as well in high winds (the Weeble Effect) and is less stable at high speeds (55+ mph or so).

See there's that demand for Stellas we were discussing in another thread!

Good info! Thanks!
Looking more like we should aim for the Buddy 1st, and Vespa as our 2nd. (Unless some awesome deal presents itself..)

If given the choice, which Vespa would you recommend, and why? (LX vs ET)
Also looks like the ability to do/enjoy my described commute didn't throw any flags up! Yeah!!

[ericalm]

If given the choice, which Vespa would you recommend, and why? (LX vs ET)
Also looks like the ability to do/enjoy my described commute didn't throw any flags up! Yeah!!

Well, a LX will be newer... it replaced the ET. I also prefer the more angular looks of the LX to the curvy, bubbly ET—I think it's got a more vintage look, but a lot of ET riders disagree, f course. However, I still like the ET a lot. I frequently see them with awesome 2-tone paint jobs, or modded out with 190 kits, etc. and would jump at a good deal on one in good condition. The ETs have retained their value quite well!

You can find a lot of ET vs. LX debate over on ModernVespa. It's definitely a subjective matter, though.

[Puddle Jumper]

took your suggestion and went to modern vespa... and you were right about oppions! Great!!!
Do you like this? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2003-Ves ... dZViewItem
off to test a vespa and buddy!

[monza]

Vespa LX vs. Buddy vs. People 150. A toss-up to me. Ride them all and buy the one that fits the best.

Vespa PX vs Stella? Even more of a toss-up.

LX vs. Buddy vs. People S125...Buddy in my book. S125 next. LX is nice, but is it nearly $2000 nicer? no. Spend the extra $2000 on a prima pipe, good safety gear, and 500 gallons of gas.

PX vs. Stella - hands down, Stella. They were made on the same assembly line and are nearly identical. For some reason Vespa decided to go with the old rotary valve setup instead of the Stella's modern reed induction. Stupid. And at a typical $4800 price tag, the PX is just plain overpriced.

[danix]

I originally shied away from the Buddy thinking it was not great quality, compared to the Vespa. The reality is that you are getting 80% of the quality for 60% of the price (roughly) with a better warranty, and parts are far cheaper.

The downside is that resale is nowhere as good. But, I hedged that by buying my Buddy used, so it's not as much of a concern for me.

If, like me, you've never had a scooter, I would recommend buying a used Buddy or a nice Vespa, so that if you don't like it, you can resell it without taking too much of a hit.

[louie]

A house is an investment, stock is investing, a scooter is a ride. Buy it, ride it, love the feeling.

[Puddle Jumper]

:DWell it happened!!! That opportunity presented itself, and we are now the proud parents of an ET4!!
Thanks all, for your GREAT input!
By the sounds of your fun, I suspect we will be adding a Buddy before to long!
Here is the new set of wheels.... now to get it from Dallas to Chicago!! Road trip!!!

[ericalm]

Wow! Way to make a leap! Nice lookin' scoot, congrats.

How are you getting it from Dallas to Chicago? Are you planning on having it checked out by a mechanic when you get it home? Might be a good idea.

See you over on ModernVespa now, I guess.