Perhaps a legacy of the 161cc Kit

jijifer · Post by **jijifer** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:37 am

So today my shop did a really cool thing. They had a workshop although they were closed to show whomever was interested the inner workings of a GTS 250 transmission and then how to do an oil and oil filter change (using my scoot as the demo, YAY!)

Well, while my scoot was up on the lift, and the demo was done, someone was spinning my back wheel and the noise caught the attention of the mechanic. Now since about my last tire & belt change, I did start to notice a grinding is noise when I was pushing my scoot but never noticed it when I was riding so I sorta wrote it off as not having noticed before.

Well, it turns out my bearings are getting flat in my back well or in the part where the clutch and wheel connect. I'm not sure which bearings, honestly. But it stumped all of them since they'd never seen this on the Buddy before. They see it's only happening in low revs (not on, just pushed) but they are thinking it's happening because of the extra torque that is placed on those bearings at take-off with my kit.

I'll keep you posted. They said not to worry and they'll either change the bearing when I upgrade the clutch or the next time they're up in that junk but that in 4k miles I should definitely pull it apart.

rajron · Post by **rajron** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:47 am

Ooh ooh – tomorrow morning I’m going to check my bearings, or at least listen for strange noises coming from the rear. – Thanx for the heads up.
Just a note: My scooter is much older than yours; relative terms, but, when I replaced my front tire a few months back I took the time to check out the front bearing grease; there was nearly none! Re-packed those bearings but didn’t look at any other bearings.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:48 am

Hmm, interesting. I don't know how much stock I'd put in the 161 being the culprit. I've got more torque then you do and my bearings are fine.

Keep us posted on what they find though!

Lagerhead · Post by **Lagerhead** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:35 am

Kaos wrote:Hmm, interesting. I don't know how much stock I'd put in the 161 being the culprit.
Keep us posted on what they find though!

I'll agree with that. My guess is that the noise is coming from the ball (not needle) bearing in the fixed face of the clutch pulley.
I've had 4 go bad so far total in my wife's and my Buddys. (both stock 2006 125's) The first 2 were covered by warranty but the others were after 2 years.
When the second clutch started making noise on the wife's bike we decided to buy the NCY clutch and variator kit as an upgrade to the clutch and a preemptive maintenance strike on the variator assy.
.
.
.
.the NCY kit doesn't include the fixed face and it's bearings because it's a "low wear part".

I had to buy a $20.00 Chinese complete clutch assembly and steal the fixed face from it for her bike. On my bike I just bought a China clutch and skipped the NCY. I think the NCY kit is an awesome set of parts but it didn't include the one part that consistently wears out, at least for me.

jijifer · Post by **jijifer** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:44 pm

Lagerhead wrote:
Kaos wrote:Hmm, interesting. I don't know how much stock I'd put in the 161 being the culprit.
Keep us posted on what they find though!
I'll agree with that. My guess is that the noise is coming from the ball (not needle) bearing in the fixed face of the clutch pulley.
I've had 4 go bad so far total in my wife's and my Buddys. (both stock 2006 125's) The first 2 were covered by warranty but the others were after 2 years.
When the second clutch started making noise on the wife's bike we decided to buy the NCY clutch and variator kit as an upgrade to the clutch and a preemptive maintenance strike on the variator assy.
.
.
.
.the NCY kit doesn't include the fixed face and it's bearings because it's a "low wear part".

I had to buy a $20.00 Chinese complete clutch assembly and steal the fixed face from it for her bike. On my bike I just bought a China clutch and skipped the NCY. I think the NCY kit is an awesome set of parts but it didn't include the one part that consistently wears out, at least for me.

Well, that's good to know. It's not the needle bearing(s) but it is the ball and they said they never had one go bad. Mine's a 2009 but almost 11k miles so maybe it is just bad. I'm the only kitted buddy in town, at least that they service. It was just a last minute guess based on never seeing one go bad. If I had bought new it'd be warranty but it's not. They also said it's like a $6 part so the next time they've in there, to we'll do it.

What's the problem with the NCY clutch kit?

Lagerhead · Post by **Lagerhead** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:49 pm

jijifer wrote:
What's the problem with the NCY clutch kit?

No problem at all. We've been happy with it, I just wish it included the part of the clutch that we've worn out 4 times. I just bought the China clutch to steal the fixed face and bearings from it. (instead of reusing the old one.)

The actual fixed face of the clutch pulley was still good all 4 times but the bearing that failed is at the bottom of the "sliding tube" and behind another bearing. (the needle bearing). I see no real easy way to replace those bearings without just changing the whole fixed face assy.

rajron · Post by **rajron** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:54 pm

Seems like these bearing failures are isolated cases, and not because of undo stress, like Kaos said.
I did a sanity check on my scooter, didn’t take it apart (too cold; a storm from S. Calif. is coming in) but I did roll the scooter around, spun the rear wheel, wiggled etc; all seems OK.
So, what bearing (s) are all you guys talking about? Item # ?
This is the first time I have heard of a major wear failure, much less a potential chronic failure on the Buddy.
I wonder if its because of your riding habits/environment.

Lagerhead · Post by **Lagerhead** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:03 pm

This schematic is a little different than my Buddy's but the bearing I'm talking about would be located inside of part # 19 in this drawing...

I'll try to find a picture.

jijifer · Post by **jijifer** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:13 pm

While it's not unusual here on Modern Buddy, it seems like a Buddy with over 10k in a year is unusual in San Diego. I'm one of few if not the only one my shop sees and they are the best dealer in SD so I think they get the lionshare of maintenance requests.

I do ride WOT a ton. I get off the line fast, too. I am a big girl. So all those things can contribute, I'm sure. Consider I've had 3 sets of tires (including stock) in a year so I'm wearing out the back end pretty fast so it shouldn't surprise me I'm wearing out rear wheel components not just tires. They said the bearing involved isn't going to lock up my tire and really lubing the needle bearing seemed to quiet some of the noise. Again, once moving the grinding noise stops, it's just when pushing it around that I hear it.

They just hypothesized at the very last minute that the additional torque of the 161 may have cause wear and tear quicker since they haven't seen this bearing fail on any other buddy.

In any case, I'll get it replaced the next time they're taking that part of my bike apart.

Lagerhead · Post by **Lagerhead** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:15 pm

It's the bearing with the red seal.

The stock ones we had were only sealed on one side, the outside. Both Chinese ones are sealed on both sides.

enzomatic · Post by **enzomatic** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:11 pm

yeah so mine is doing this too. I took apart the entire gear box from the wheel side to determining that it's the main drive going through that is making the grinding noise. I did not however remove the clutch because I didn't want to deal with the spring. I'm hoping I can order the part through genuine or through a dealer. I won't have time to fix it however until I move to LA so I guess I'll be bugging No Ho for the part.