idle speed problem?

lets_not_listen · Post by **lets_not_listen** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:16 pm

hello,

so, everything on the buddy has been great, EXCEPT:

until yesterday, when my buddy was stopped (at a light, stop sign, etc) it idled and did not move at all until i told it to. but yesterday on the way home from work, whenever i stopped, it wanted to keep going. i had to really hold on the brakes to keep it from creeping forward. it was enough to accelerate to and maintain a full 10 mph without any throttle.

so -- two questions --
(1) this is not normal right? it's supposed to sit there until it gets throttle? (i want to make sure that it wasn't incorrect before, and now it's operating normally).
(2) what would cause this? i figure either the idle speed has changed somehow, or it's not going into neutral when stopped (does it do that?)

thanks for any help. obviously i'll have to take it in and test out that warrenty, but i'd like to know why this might have happened.

mlstephens · Post by **mlstephens** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:53 pm

It is normal to have to make idle speed adjustments on a new carbureted vehicle as it breaks in. It could also be a throttle cable adjustment. Part of the 300km (186 mile) service is idle speed check/adjust. Take it in, and it should be an easy fix. I wouldn't ride it until it is fixed, though.

mlstephens · Post by **mlstephens** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:41 pm

My idle speed seemed to be running slightly high, so checked with a timing light and sure enough it was 2000rpm. Adjusting down is simple adjustment of the idle screw on the throttle cable; it was rock solid at 200rpm, but it is hard to get it as stable at 1700rpm. Lower than that it really bounces around. In order to do the job yourself properly, you need a digital tach; I used a timing light that has built in tachometer. A dealer should be able to adjust in a matter of a few minutes, as all you need to do is remove the floor rubber to get access to the battery panel; remove the panel below the front of the seat (4 screws, once you've carefully pulled the floor rubber); adn open the access panel to the carb that is on the 'floor' of the underseat storage compartment. Funny that the 2005 EPA sticker inside the storage compartment states that the idle is not adjustable, yet it clearly is and the manual has it listed as routine maintenance.

lets_not_listen · Post by **lets_not_listen** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:35 pm

thanks, i took it into the shop. it was almost time for new bike maintenance anyway. we'll see if they fix it (i'm sure they will)...

James Tate · Post by **James Tate** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:44 am

My Buddy developed a fast idle over the last day, and was propelling the bike at a good clip with no throttle from me. It was an easy fix, if it happens to anyone else:

Beneath the panel under the seat you have access to the idle adjuster screw; it is towards the front of the bike along the throttle cable. The screw is verticle and staring you in the face. You can't miss it. I don't have a tachometer, but my mechanic told me it was alright to adjust it by sound- making sure it didn't stall or propel the bike forward.

Still have no idea how this happened so quickly, but at least it's simple to correct.

vitaminC · Post by **vitaminC** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 3:05 am

James Tate wrote: Still have no idea how this happened so quickly, but at least it's simple to correct.

I had this happen on a motorcycle trip I was on. Bike was fine for 200 miles, then all of a sudden it would not idle when I stopped, so I had to keep giving it gas to keep it alive. Not fun. Anyway, the idle screw just "jumped out," and putting it back where it should be got things going again. Point of the story: sometimes things "just happen."

James Tate · Post by **James Tate** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 3:14 am

Thanks for the information- I can accept things just happening; I guess if it just happens over and over again it's time to be more curious.

James Tate · Post by **James Tate** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 3:14 am

Thanks for the information- I can accept things just happening; I guess if it just happens over and over again it's time to be more curious.

MrNatural · Post by **MrNatural** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:40 pm

I started my bike once w/it leaning on the kickstand (not the center stand) and while putting on my gloves the fast idle cause it to creep forward. If I hadn't been facing the bike it would have gone forward enough to push itself right off the stand.

The idle usually slows down after about 3 blocks.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:23 pm

vitaminC wrote:
James Tate wrote: Still have no idea how this happened so quickly, but at least it's simple to correct.
I had this happen on a motorcycle trip I was on. Bike was fine for 200 miles, then all of a sudden it would not idle when I stopped, so I had to keep giving it gas to keep it alive. Not fun. Anyway, the idle screw just "jumped out," and putting it back where it should be got things going again. Point of the story: sometimes things "just happen."

why does it happen? see signature!
BR Not-David

sunshinen · Post by **sunshinen** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 6:39 pm

MrNatural wrote:I started my bike once w/it leaning on the kickstand (not the center stand) and while putting on my gloves the fast idle cause it to creep forward. If I hadn't been facing the bike it would have gone forward enough to push itself right off the stand.

The idle usually slows down after about 3 blocks.

Are you letting it warm up first? I don't know how much it matters, but on my Buddy, there's a definite moment after start up when the idle slows, letting me know she's ready to go. (I've only been riding her for a month or so, but I love her and so want to take good care of her.)

Question:
After my tune up, my idle came back faster. Now, when I start up (on kickstand), the back wheel races till it has warmed up. The extra rev isn't enough that it will pull the scooter forward when I'm sitting on it, but I do make sure to let it warm up fully and make sure I am holding the brake before taking it off the kickstand.

I'm tempted to adjust it down a bit, because this wheel spinning seems a bit dangerous if someone/something comes up and doesn't realize my tire is spinning. But don't know if this is actually the right idle speed since most people start with scooters off the stand, and with the cold setting in, I am thinking it might even be good to have it a bit higher to help with getting it warmed up. Anyone have some insight???

whattheheck · Post by **whattheheck** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:14 pm

I found that when I bought it I could not keep it started (it would keep stalling unless I gave it gas), so I increased the idle via the screw.

After that the bike would rev a little during warm up but after warm up (about 1 minute) it seemed to idle perfect. However, after riding for 10-20 minutes, the idle became too high and it surged at stops.

So, I backed it down half way between the 2 points. Now, when it starts it stays running strong during warm up and the tire barely moves when it is on its stand. At that "warm up moment", the idle drops and the bike will eventually stall if I do not touch the throttle. However, if I immediately go once the idle drops, it idles just fine even at the first stop. So basically, if I drive it at least 30 seconds after the warm-up idle change, it stays perfect. That's as close as I can get it between all the extremes.

otterillo · Post by **otterillo** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:14 pm

I'm going to buy a tachometer from ENM Counting Instruments--it's only about $25, with free shipping. The ENM rep told me that the model I buy depends on whether there's spark for every engine rev, or spark for every two engine revs. Does anyone know which category the Buddy 125 would be in? I don't see anything in the service manual. Thanks.

cccous · Post by **cccous** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:44 am

A Buddy is a 4 cycle so it is a spark every other revolution
2 cycles like the Stella have a spark every revolution

otterillo · Post by **otterillo** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:31 am

Thank you!

Twinbee · Post by **Twinbee** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:37 pm

cccous wrote:A Buddy is a 4 cycle so it is a spark every other revolution
2 cycles like the Stella have a spark every revolution

While it's true that 4 stroke engines only need a spark every other revolution, some produce a spark every revolution anyway. This is called a wasted spark. (See the last paragraph for single cylinder engines.) Unfortunately, I don't know if the Buddy's engine produces a wasted spark.

pcbikedude · Post by **pcbikedude** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:44 pm

otterillo wrote:I'm going to buy a tachometer from ENM Counting Instruments--it's only about $25, with free shipping. The ENM rep told me that the model I buy depends on whether there's spark for every engine rev, or spark for every two engine revs. Does anyone know which category the Buddy 125 would be in? I don't see anything in the service manual. Thanks.

When you install it, take some pics and post them. I'm interested in where you are going to mount it?

otterillo · Post by **otterillo** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:49 pm

It doesn't install--you just wrap the wire 2 or 3 times around the spark plug wire and take the reading to see if the idle is correct. A diagnostic tool only.

cccous · Post by **cccous** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:23 am

Never heard of a wasted spark before, but I don't see why they couldn't exist, seems it is common on magneto flywheel engines. If a buddy does this you'll know, the RPM's will read twice as high. Just adjust your tach or divide by two.
Which model tach did you get?

otterillo · Post by **otterillo** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:37 pm

I ordered Model PT15E3 (4 cylinder--1 spark every other revolution) from ENM Company. It should last at least 8 years--then when the sealed battery wears out it will need to be replaced, but it was only $25.

When I receive it in the mail, I will post a photo of it in posiition on the spark plug wire.

trevo_man · Post by **trevo_man** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:09 am

So is it normal if when I start my buddy it idles normally for 15-30 seconds, then goes a bit higher in rpm (not enough to propel the buddy, just a bit higher) for 20-30 seconds then back down to the original rpm?

It just started doing this about a week ago, all summer long it has been the same predictable idle consistently.

otterillo · Post by **otterillo** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:42 pm

No, the engine should idle at higher revs for several minutes. After it warms up, you should hear the idle speed drop down and remain pretty steady until you give it throttle. Alternately increasing and decreasing idle speed without touching the throttle is not normal.

By the way, I had an accident on my scooter and am seriously considering selling it (after repairs) and giving up scootering altogether

After this happened I returned my new tachometer without even opening the box when it arrived. I was lucky the car behind me didn't run me over!

lobsterman · Post by **lobsterman** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:29 pm

otterillo wrote:...By the way, I had an accident on my scooter and am seriously considering selling it (after repairs) and giving up scootering altogether
...I was lucky the car behind me didn't run me over!

Wow, hope you weren't hurt too bad. An accident is certainly cause to re-evaluate whether you want to be on two wheels.

Modern Buddy

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