the front tire is coming off

chinaski · Post by **chinaski** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:04 pm

I need to remove the front tire to access the lower panel on my Buddy. I've searched the internets for similar posts and have studied the tire removal section in the service manual and I have yet to find a few clear answers to some questions. I was wondering if I could use the collective wisdom of the board to help? Here is what I am unsure of:

1- Do i need to remove the brake assembly before removing the tire or does it all stay together when removed?

2- This note in the service manual makes no sense, can anyone clear this up for me? Put the lock block of speedometer gear assy upon the extrusion of the front fork. (p84)

3- Lastly, do i use any particular torque wrench when re-assembling to reach the M10: 3.0-4.0kg-m? I've never used a torque wrench before.

Thanks all.

synaps3 · Post by **synaps3** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:20 pm

1. Not the brake assembly, but there are two bolts holding the caliper in place. You should carefully undo these and remove the caliper off the brake disc to prevent any damage.

2. On the opposite side from the brake is the speedometer assembly. When you remove the axle and slide the wheel out, it should just pop right off. You don't have to loosen it or anything. Just be gentle to make sure you don't snap your speedometer cable.

3. Don't bother with one, just tighten it as hard as you can. It's an axle, so as long as it is on there REALLY tight, your torque won't matter much. I just use a standard ~6" long ratchet and get it as tight as I can with it.

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:51 pm

Your "really tight" is different than chinaski's "really tight" and even more different from my "really tight".

Use a torque wrench on the nut side of the axle.

synaps3 · Post by **synaps3** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:25 pm

The question is -- which really tight is sufficient? 4 kg/m spec is almost 30 ft/lbs of torque, which a child could tighten to. Given the strength of the axle and the fact that we aren't toddlers, I think as tight as you can is safe. You won't shear the bolt because it is huge, and the bearings won't care how tight it is.

Torque wrenches are expensive, asking the OP to use one may be excessive...

Edit: after posting this message, I realized I may have come across as condescending or terse. Quite the opposite, I highly endorse the use of a torque wrench, and own and use one myself. As they are expensive, I wanted to suggest that the OP doesn't necessarily need one, although it would be a good idea to use one. Just because I don't use mine to tighten most bolts doesn't mean he shouldn't.

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:03 pm

I believe Harbor Fright has a 3/8" Taiwan made torque wrench for $9.99. Just go buy that and use it.

bluebuddygirl · Post by **bluebuddygirl** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:43 pm

k1dude wrote:I believe Harbor Fright has a 3/8" Taiwan made torque wrench for $9.99. Just go buy that and use it.

+1

You may not shear it, but that doesn't mean that over-tightening won't do possible damage, and Lost my Cage is right, in that one person's tight is different from another. Seriously different. Synaps3, What you think a child may be able to tighten to, is not necessarily so. The angle and access of the person doing the tightening can vary that quite a bit.

Buy the cheap torque wrench, then you will know it is right, and again, there is probably a reason that the 30 lb pressure of torque is as low as it is.

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:51 pm

BTW, that's a sale currently going on. Get it now before the price goes back up.

chinaski · Post by **chinaski** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 7:03 pm

Thanks for everyone's feedback. I'll feel much more confident when I attempt this procedure. Can anyone confirm that 3.0—4.0 kg-m would convert to 21.6—28.9 lb-ft? I've found a few conversion tools online but just want to be safe.

synaps3 · Post by **synaps3** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 7:32 pm

Correct. You can just enter it into google and it will do the conversion for you.

Mtlgrlie · Post by **Mtlgrlie** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:15 pm

I just bought a clicking 3/8 micro-torque wrench from autozone for 19.99. Don't know how good it is.....goes from 10 to 100 ft lbs I think. The one I used when I replaced my front forks (which meant removing all the front tire parts) was a beam style from Sears. Also real cheap, but worked quite well.

I wish I could afford a good one too.

Ethan Allison · Post by **Ethan Allison** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:38 pm

Check some local auto parts stores and see if they have free loaner tools.

Mtlgrlie · Post by **Mtlgrlie** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:46 pm

I asked my local places about loaners. Not for the smaller torque wrenches. They did have a massive beam type though. So I bought the Autocraft tawainese version.

And I don't have an impact wrench which all the bigger bolts needed to be removed. Didn't have the strength. Instead I used a 3 ft. old length of steel pipe on my regular ratchet. Worked like a charm!

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:54 pm

Two things about the micrometer-style (click) torque wrenches: 1) it's a Very Good Idea to adjust them through their range from hi to lo and back a few times, just to make sure everything's lubricated (and clicking) properly, and 2) always unscrew them (zero torque) before storing.

I have access to a lengthy Craftsman beam-type, but that wouldn't do me so very much good on tight places like drain bolts and oil filters, so I bought the micrometer type as well. It took me a few tries to get a good feel for 12 lb-ft / 144 lb-in, and I practiced on some bolts on my fence before going nuts under the scoot.

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:56 pm

When you remove the brake caliper assembly, be sure you don't squeeze the brake lever.

I put a rubber ball (the kind you use for grip exercise) between the brake lever and the grip while doing front end work then remove it when I'm done.

Also, for front or rear wheel re-assembly, you should apply a drop or two of blue Loctite on the axle nut.

Mtlgrlie · Post by **Mtlgrlie** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:58 pm

Yes! That's exactly what the autoparts guy said.....I would never have known otherwise. Good advice!

chinaski · Post by **chinaski** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:02 pm

When you remove the brake caliper assembly, be sure you don't squeeze the brake lever.

I put a rubber ball (the kind you use for grip exercise) between the brake lever and the grip while doing front end work then remove it when I'm done.

Also, for front or rear wheel re-assembly, you should apply a drop or two of blue Loctite on the axle nut.

Good to know! Let's just say one squeezed the brake lever while the caliper was off. What would happen and how would you solve the issue?

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:13 pm

chinaski wrote:... Let's just say one squeezed the brake lever while the caliper was off. What would happen and how would you solve the issue?

Sometimes it's not too big a deal but there are possible complications.
Check these out.

viewtopic.php?t=15946&highlight=front+brake+caliper

viewtopic.php?t=19859&highlight=front+brake+caliper

synaps3 · Post by **synaps3** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:35 pm

chinaski wrote:Good to know! Let's just say one squeezed the brake lever while the caliper was off. What would happen and how would you solve the issue?

Nothing bad will happen. I actually accidentally did this when I took apart my whole scooter for repaint last night.

When you squeezed the lever, the brakes will self-adjust until there is tension, meaning they'll tighten until the two pads are touching, then back off just slightly. Pry them apart until your disc can fit again, install the wheel and put the caliper back on, pump your brakes a few times to readjust the pads, and everything will be as good as new.

chinaski · Post by **chinaski** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:35 pm

nice. thanks!

MYSCTR · Post by **MYSCTR** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:57 pm

synaps3 wrote:
chinaski wrote:Good to know! Let's just say one squeezed the brake lever while the caliper was off. What would happen and how would you solve the issue?
...Pry them apart until your disc can fit again, install the wheel and put the caliper back on, pump your brakes a few times to readjust the pads, and everything will be as good as new.

Be sure on the first ride to test the brakes BEFORE you need them - a few gentle pumps will do it just to know they have re-adjusted.

Otherwise you may be very surprised when you don't stop and need to!