Best Scooter to you for the Money.

[k1dude]

[Southerner]

Lame is in the eye of the beholder!

Actually, I was thinking of the old one. The new one's not too bad.

I forgot about the Vino 125. A used one might be had at a low-enough price to be worth playing with. Plus we do have a Yamaha dealer in town. My only niggle about the V125 is that huge headlight nacelle covered with "plastichrome". That stuff doesn't survive the passage of time very well.

I would definitely feel more comfortable with a Yammer or Honda product than a no-name.

The PCX didn't occur to me. Probably because it looks like a miniature maxi-scooter. I can't see spending what it takes to get a new scooter that small though.

[ericalm]

If I were after this style scooter with naked handlebars. I'd go hunting for a nice used Yamaha Vino 125 before I would take a chance on something like the "Lance Cali Classic". Better build, better finish, better dealer network.

I think you'd find a Vino a pretty disappointing ride after a Buddy. It's a quality scooter, but pokey and doesn't have the spirited handling of a Buddy 125.

[supermach]

If I were after this style scooter with naked handlebars. I'd go hunting for a nice used Yamaha Vino 125 before I would take a chance on something like the "Lance Cali Classic". Better build, better finish, better dealer network.

Better Dealer network... Ok here I got. I was goin to get a vino 50cc and the dealer was being a REALY dick to me. He didn't what to order the color that I whated and he said we have this one and we can't get a diffent color in when it was march in 2010. So I didn't get it but I really whated a scooter so I went back 3 mouths later and they still had that color so I went up to the guy with $2300.00 CASH what was $150 over the MSRP at the time. So he said I need to talk to my boss so he came back and he said this is the best price I can do. It was $2450.00 + 18% sells tax when NJ is only 7% + the MSRP price is $300.00 over. So I said hey why are you giving me a problem I have $2300.00 cash right here so work out a deal with me other then ripping me off and he said that was a deal. So I walked out.

Update one day my friend whated to go and look in that same dealer and I said i'm goin to wait in the car and he said come in so I said ok. So I went back in there and that first thing I saw was the SAME 2009 Yamaha Vino 50cc in the same color was up for a Chinese Auction that night and I had the biggest smile on my face EVER when I saw that so they had to give the thing away for free this because they whated to be an ass. So don't say anything about the dealer they are junk.

[jasondavis48108]

If I were after this style scooter with naked handlebars. I'd go hunting for a nice used Yamaha Vino 125 before I would take a chance on something like the "Lance Cali Classic". Better build, better finish, better dealer network.

Better Dealer network... Ok here I got. I was goin to get a vino 50cc and the dealer was being a REALY dick to me. He didn't what to order the color that I whated and he said we have this one and we can't get a diffent color in when it was march in 2010. So I didn't get it but I really whated a scooter so I went back 3 mouths later and they still had that color so I went up to the guy with $2300.00 CASH what was $150 over the MSRP at the time. So he said I need to talk to my boss so he came back and he said this is the best price I can do. It was $2450.00 + 18% sells tax when NJ is only 7% + the MSRP price is $300.00 over. So I said hey why are you giving me a problem I have $2300.00 cash right here so work out a deal with me other then ripping me off and he said that was a deal. So I walked out.

Update one day my friend whated to go and look in that same dealer and I said i'm goin to wait in the car and he said come in so I said ok. So I went back in there and that first thing I saw was the SAME 2009 Yamaha Vino 50cc in the same color was up for a Chinese Auction that night and I had the biggest smile on my face EVER when I saw that so they had to give the thing away for free this because they whated to be an ass. So don't say anything about the dealer they are junk.

I think when folks talk about a strong dealer network they are referring to the number of dealers who can service the scooter and gets replacment parts for the scooter. Some vehicles are more in demand in certain areas so the dealers either can or think they can get a price which is above MSRP. I don't think that having a dealer unwilling to negotiate on price necessarily makes them a bad dealer so long as after the sale they treat the customer right and honor the waranty that you recieved with the scooter.

Obviously everyone has different criteria for what makes a dealer good or bad, but I know I'd much rather have a dealer with honest knowledgable mechanics and a history (ie they will be around for awhile) than a dealer willing to give me a break on thier sticker price.

[Southerner]

It's like anything else. They can, if they want to, cut the price to move something out, or they can stick with the MSRP or even above if inclined, and let dust gather on it. It's their choice, just as it's your choice to buy it or walk away.

I don't know what other taxes they may have in NJ but they can't call anything over the legally mandated percentage "sales tax." There's dealer prep, freight and what-have-you, but I discount all that and ask what the out-the-door price is. Don't care what percentage of it is what.

And cash doesn't necessarily mean you'l get a bargain. They can actually make more money on a MC if it's financed.

I don't know how dense the dealerships are up there, but down here, people have been known to drive to a dealership as much as 4 hours away to get a deal. Here in the smaller towns, sales volumes are low so prices tend to be higher.

[supermach]

If I were after this style scooter with naked handlebars. I'd go hunting for a nice used Yamaha Vino 125 before I would take a chance on something like the "Lance Cali Classic". Better build, better finish, better dealer network.

Better Dealer network... Ok here I got. I was goin to get a vino 50cc and the dealer was being a REALY dick to me. He didn't what to order the color that I whated and he said we have this one and we can't get a diffent color in when it was march in 2010. So I didn't get it but I really whated a scooter so I went back 3 mouths later and they still had that color so I went up to the guy with $2300.00 CASH what was $150 over the MSRP at the time. So he said I need to talk to my boss so he came back and he said this is the best price I can do. It was $2450.00 + 18% sells tax when NJ is only 7% + the MSRP price is $300.00 over. So I said hey why are you giving me a problem I have $2300.00 cash right here so work out a deal with me other then ripping me off and he said that was a deal. So I walked out.

Update one day my friend whated to go and look in that same dealer and I said i'm goin to wait in the car and he said come in so I said ok. So I went back in there and that first thing I saw was the SAME 2009 Yamaha Vino 50cc in the same color was up for a Chinese Auction that night and I had the biggest smile on my face EVER when I saw that so they had to give the thing away for free this because they whated to be an ass. So don't say anything about the dealer they are junk.

I think when folks talk about a strong dealer network they are referring to the number of dealers who can service the scooter and gets replacment parts for the scooter. Some vehicles are more in demand in certain areas so the dealers either can or think they can get a price which is above MSRP. I don't think that having a dealer unwilling to negotiate on price necessarily makes them a bad dealer so long as after the sale they treat the customer right and honor the waranty that you recieved with the scooter.

Obviously everyone has different criteria for what makes a dealer good or bad, but I know I'd much rather have a dealer with honest knowledgable mechanics and a history (ie they will be around for awhile) than a dealer willing to give me a break on thier sticker price.

But if the dealer is ran and owned by dicks and gave me a problem right when I came thorw the door why would I think they would fix the scooter properly? When I went to get the stella the guy ALWAYS told me the truth and he didn't give me a break on the price but he sent it to my house for free what was a BIG thank you so now any other things I need I go to him. Smart way to get people to come back and shop at his place... But hell what do I know! Someone that Jacked up the MSRP price by $200.00 + whated me to pay double the state sells taxs what's the big deal in that.

[charlie55]

I can't see a dealership here risking their business license by trying to claim an 18% sales tax - there had to have been some sort of misunderstanding.

[TVB]

And cash doesn't necessarily mean you'l get a bargain. They can actually make more money on a MC if it's financed.

I never buy vehicles on credit; I save up the cash first. But when I've gone shopping for a car, I've kept that fact to myself until after we've settled on the price, allowing the dealer to assume that they'll be making money on interest as well.

[Dooglas]

Very true but dont forget the Honda PCX also has naked handle bars.

Well, yes, but the PCX hardly resembles a Honda Joker or a Yamaha Vino. The PCX is an unusual bike on the American market - a 125 that resembles the bigger "Maxi-scoot" styling of many of the 200-500cc scooters such as the Honda Reflex or the Yamaha Majesty. (no "retro" styling there)

[Dooglas]

I think you'd find a Vino a pretty disappointing ride after a Buddy. It's a quality scooter, but pokey and doesn't have the spirited handling of a Buddy 125.

Actually I have owned a Yamaha Vino 125 and have quite a few hours on both the Vino and the Buddy. I agree that the Buddy is quicker. The discussion, however, was about scooters that have retro styling similar to the Honda Jocker or "Lance Cali Classic". In that category I'd say the 125 Vino is a well made, reliable scooter that is supported by an extensive dealer network and can be purchased used at bargain prices. (and I'd advise the OP to stay away from the 4T 50cc Vino - that was quite a step down from its 2T predecessor)

[Southerner]

And cash doesn't necessarily mean you'l get a bargain. They can actually make more money on a MC if it's financed.

I never buy vehicles on credit; I save up the cash first. But when I've gone shopping for a car, I've kept that fact to myself until after we've settled on the price, allowing the dealer to assume that they'll be making money on interest as well.

Which is a good strategy. I was just pointing out that the old way of offering cash on the barrelhead to get a good price might no longer work.

Supermach, if I were you, I'd just take my business somewhere else.

[ericalm]

Very true but dont forget the Honda PCX also has naked handle bars.

Well, yes, but the PCX hardly resembles a Honda Joker or a Yamaha Vino. The PCX is an unusual bike on the American market - a 125 that resembles the bigger "Maxi-scoot" styling of many of the 200-500cc scooters such as the Honda Reflex or the Yamaha Majesty. (no "retro" styling there)

A PCX rider has been out with our group a few times recently and I have to say, I'm impressed with the scoot. As much as I usually don't care for sport or modern styling, I do like the PCX and the performance seems great. Too bad dealers seem to have ordered very few of them. I've heard from several people they can't find them in stock anywhere; I couldn't find one to test ride. The group member who has one had to order it in advance without seeing or riding one!

[Southerner]

My local Honda/Suzuki dealer at my last visit had:
One Ruckus
One SH150i
A used Silverwing
and a used 400 Burg.

They can't seem to get anybody to buy scoots. I can't fault him for not wanting them taking up his limited floor space.

Of course, a dealer will order anything you're willing to buy, but you won't find any bargains that way, unless the manufacturer can't move them either and offers incentives.

[JHScoot]

I would have a little more confidence in one with the SYM name on it, even if it's rebadged.

I like that "handlebar" style for some reason. I guess a lot of other people must as well as I've seen several around here. I don't know what the brands were but probably not SYM, and certainly not Honda.

People love this style. LOVE it. To the point where they lose all reason. Before the Cali Classic was out, people seeking scooter buying advice would ask me about all kinds of junky Joker clones from all over. Exactly what they want for $900! Too good to be true. And they are.

I've reservedly recommended the Cali Classic to some who just had to have that style. Definitely better than Brand X.

Though I wouldn't mind having an Aprilia Haberno/Mojito Custom if I could ever get a cheap one. And an extra for parts.

i am one of those who love the styling and came 'round these parts asking about a BMS Heritage 150 before i got my Agility. And then a used Mojito, which are hard(er) to come by. those seen around your part of town (Southerner) are most likely chinese generics. i think you'd be safe with a Cali Classic purchase if you have a dealer nearby. they have dumped the SYM built 125cc with the ceramic coated cylinder in it, too. should stand up to excessive wear over time and miles. details

http://lancepowersports.com/models/cali125.html

i think its a nice scoot. not as well crafted as the Yamaha Vino, and perhaps a step behind in build quality. but it's perfectly acceptable, bigger, has a front 12in tire, and most likely rides and accelerates better. for around two grand you could do much worse. the Vino just doesn't have that "Joker" character to it imo.

yeah i said it. JOKER....clone

[neotrotsky]

The Honda PCX is a nice modern scooter... still love the look and for a commuter you can't go wrong. But, it's still a bit on the high side of price out the door. It's slightly longer and very Japanese in style which is actually some pluses in my book. But, if you're looking at the price factor Piaggio still has the edge. Although there is something to be said about that Honda reliability in their bikes

[mia_mali]

I'm gonna go ahead and say my particular buddy (although she's costed me some since she got stolen and I had to replace the body). I was evaluating what would be most cost effective and the Buddy 125 just seemed like the best bang for the buck. My mind still hasn't changed. In fact, riding Frankenelope around has further solidified my thoughts.

[JHScoot]

i think the Buddy is def the way to go if buying a new scooter in the mid 2K range, give or take

other notables are most likely the Kymco Like 200i (i like those, myself), that nifty Piaggio Typhoon and the Fly (if your "for the money" budget allows), and let's go with a slightly used Yamaha Zuma just for the heck of it

lets face it, in the US choices are not vast. especially if you have no Kymco or SYM dealer nearby. Piaggio, Honda, and Yamaha's slim pickings would seem all many can get. or Genuine if fortunate

[Southerner]

If I were looking for something cheap & reliable, I'd go with the Like 200i or maybe a 125 Zuma. This is primarily because these are locally well supported. The jury's still out on whether the local Yammy shop will do OK supporting the Piaggio and Vespa lines yet. He has a good rep and has been around for at least 20 years so the problems, if any, will come from the manufacturer.

I can't see me hauling about on anything less than a 125 under any circumstances. I'm just too big and have to travel too far to town.

[synaps3]

I have a PCX, and by the immense cost of the scooter, it is far less economical than a Buddy, Vino, Fiddle, Zuma, etc. I bought the last PCX within 500 miles of my house back in May, it was just under $4000 out the door. They haven't restocked since, so I definitely got lucky with it.

If you rack up massive mileage, the PCX is more economical than any other option simply because of the ~100mpg fuel economy. I get 97mpg if I drive normally, just over 100mpg if I start slow and try for efficiency.


Let's do some calculations here...

Assume fuel costs $3.50 per gallon.

For calculation purposes, maintenance cost includes tires, tranny fluid, final drive fluid, synth oil, oil filter (all if applicable)

I drive about 32 miles a day weekdays, about 50 miles a day weekends, for (32*52*5) + (50*52*2) = ~8500 miles a year. All driving is on surface streets, with the option of taking the highway to save me about 0.5 miles (but hardly any change in MPG due to traffic conditions).

Tax and registration fees are not included in the calculation, as they are tax-deductible, so I get the money back at the end of the fiscal year. In addition, all my vehicles were paid for in cash at the time of purchase. No interest or monthly payments have to be taken into account.

The Honda CR-V I'd drive with if I didn't own scooters gets 25mpg. Maintenance cost per 1000 miles is about $25. Therefore, yearly driving with only the CR-V would cost about (8500 miles * ($3.50/25mpg)) + ($25 * (8500/1000)) = $1402. Add on $120 for minimum insurance for the year, for a total of $1522 per year

The Honda PCX gets 100mpg. The maintenance cost per 1000 miles is $8. Therefore, yearly driving for the PCX would cost about (8500 miles * ($3.50/100mpg)) + ($8 * (8500/1000)) = $365.50 per year. Add on $30 per year for minimum insurance, for a total of $395.50 per year

Finally, the Genuine Buddy 125 gets 85mpg. The maintenance cost per 1000 miles is $20. Therefore, yearly driving for the Buddy would cost about (8500 miles * ($3.50/85mpg)) + ($20 * (8500/1000)) = $520 per year. Add on $23 for minimum insurance per year, for a total of $543 per year

To summarize... Cost of ownership:
Honda CRV: $1522 per year
Honda PCX: $395.50 per year
Buddy 125: $543 per year



If gas stays the same cost and my mileage stays the same, to make up for the $147.5 savings the PCX gives me over the Buddy per year will take me 13.5 years, and over 100,000 miles.


On the other hand, I still have to pay insurance on my car no matter what, so taking the PCX or the Buddy opposed to the car saves me $1006.50 and $859 respectively. Assuming I HAVE to drive the car 1/5th of the time for bad weather, the Buddy will pay for itself in less than 3 years and the PCX will pay for itself in less than 5 years.


TL;DR: The Buddy is so efficient compared to my car that it will pay for itself in 3 years. The PCX is more efficient, but its initial cost is so high that it will pay for itself in 5 years.

[Dooglas]

For calculation purposes, maintenance cost includes tires, tranny fluid, final drive fluid, synth oil, oil filter (all if applicable)

The Honda PCX gets 100mpg. The maintenance cost per 1000 miles is $8. Therefore, yearly driving for the PCX would cost about (8500 miles * ($3.50/100mpg)) + ($8 * (8500/1000)) = $365.50 per year. Add on $30 per year for minimum insurance, for a total of $395.50 per year

Hmmm, not sure where you got the actual maintenance costs but I have never owned a scooter where the cost of replacing tires and belts could fit inside of $8 per thousand miles ($80/10,000 mi) .

[synaps3]

Most people are getting about 8k out of the front tire, 6k out of the back. I haven't put that much mileage on my PCX yet, but I will get at least that. The front tire still looks new after 3500 miles, and the back isn't showing much wear at all. I bought a set for $60 shipped on sale of the stock IRC tires.

The drive belt isn't replaced in the maintenance log, and breakages don't count towards figures (belts weren't factored in for the Buddy or CRV -- just normal maintenance).

Oil is replaced on the PCX far less frequently than the Buddy, and there is no filter. Coolant, brake fluid, and transmission fluid is very infrequently changed and cheap.

$8 might be a bit on the low side, but it is reasonable considering I do all my own maintenance. Same goes for the other maintenance figures.

[Southerner]

In the spirit of "Buddy sightings in your area", I just saw one of these this morning while taking my son to school. The owner has added a windscreen, which was probably much appreciated this morning.

Incidentally, this was the ONLY scooter of any kind on that trip, which is not unusual. If I'm uptown and see 4 scoots in a day, it's a good day.

[k1dude]

I just saw one of these this morning while taking my son to school. The owner has added a windscreen, which was probably much appreciated this morning.

It may not have been a Lance. Just about every cheap China scooter company has knocked off the design from Honda. It seems to be one of the more popular designs to knock off. I guess that speaks to how popular the design still is.

[ankdworak]

synaps3

You've got to be an engineer.

[Syd]

Is it just me? Every time I open this thread and look at those oversharpened pictures I get a headache!

[Southerner]

synaps3

You've got to be an engineer.

Me? Close. I'm a land surveyor.

What made you guess that (assuming you were talking to me)?.