BOMP (Buddy Owner's Manual Project)

jonlink · Post by **jonlink** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:53 pm

After talking with neotrotsky & ericalm in another post I've become convinced it is time to try and crowdsource a decent owner's manual.

I'd like to see who else in interested in this project. Help could something as simple as providing a pic of gauges or a kick start, and as complicated as a rewrite of a section so that it is in clear, concise English.

The finished product would be freely available immediately (maybe licensed under Creative Commons?). It would also be passed along to Genuine for their consideration.

goldscott · Post by **goldscott** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:11 pm

I could take a bunch of high quality pictures with my DSLR.

I think even more important than an owner's manual is a detailed, step-by-step guide with pictures on how to do various maintenance and repairs.

RoadRambler · Post by **RoadRambler** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:34 pm

I could help with putting a section into clear, concise English, as long as the technical information was double-checked ~

jonlink · Post by **jonlink** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:07 pm

goldscott wrote:I could take a bunch of high quality pictures with my DSLR.

I think even more important than an owner's manual is a detailed, step-by-step guide with pictures on how to do various maintenance and repairs.

Pics are very welcome, thanks! I agree that having a basic how-to guide included would be nice. I think the first thing is to get the basic manual in shape, though. After it is done it should be easy to beef it up with more helpful info. Please attach any pics here or PM them to me.

RoadRambler wrote:I could help with putting a section into clear, concise English, as long as the technical information was double-checked ~

That would be great. Using the PDF found on this site (so page numbers don't get confused). Could you possibly tackle pages 5-12? If that is too much, just do what you can. Afterwards please attach it as a .txt file here, or send me a PM.

Akaipaps · Post by **Akaipaps** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:51 pm

Sounds just like something a noob like me needs. I don't even know where to begin to look for a variator!

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:41 pm

The key is to get ahold of Genuine to see if they are interested in underwriting (for lack of a better term) the project so we can possibly have this as the "official" manual for the Buddy, and to make sure we are including the proper factory information for the bike. Also, just having a link to the crowdsourced manual somewhere on the site or even on the dealer prep paperwork would be awesome!

jonlink · Post by **jonlink** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:05 pm

I just ran the scanned pdf through OCR, I'm going to use this to make a rough version that we can start fixing up. It'll also give me something to get the layout going in inDesign.

@neotrotsky, I agree that their blessing is important, but I think it'll be easier to get it if we have something to show them. Right now we are just a bunch of folks on a forum. If we are a bunch of folks on a forum with a a project in hand and a plan how to improve it, I think it'll go better.

MYSCTR · Post by **MYSCTR** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:27 pm

Big Props to anyone who steps up to the plate for this job!

Very much needed! Or is that just the nerdy side of me showing? Our daughter is like "I put in the key and it runs and stops when i want to - good enough". Not so much the nerd!

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:55 pm

We'll not be asking Genuine to underwrite this. They're very hands-off with the forum and it's best to keep things that way. That said, I will try to figure out if we can consult them for technical help and information.

Also, I imagine there may be liability issues with Genuine adopting something they haven't created or fully vetted.

A few ground rules for this project since we're doing it via MB:

1. All content should be freshly written and oriented towards new owners. This means no simple rewrites or plagiarism. I know we'll cover much of the same ground of what's in the current manual, so think about how it can be improved.
2. All content and info on MB is fair game. Use the resources we have. When possible, give credit to specific members, as we do in our FAQ/Reference section.
3. Don't get offended if your copy gets edited. Thanks to years in publishing, I am ridiculously anal when it comes to copyediting.
4. This project is for the benefit of the site, current and future owners. No one's going to make big bucks off of this. We do it because it's our passion and what we love.

So, a suggestion: Let's first hammer out a rough list of desired contents.
We'll then come up with a format for submissions. Then we'll take volunteers for first passes at specific sections.

Once we some more comments, etc. in this thread, I'll start a new forum specifically for this project and we'll get started. The assigned sections will be posted, then members will provide feedback and we'll make changes and edits accordingly.

How's that sound?

ScooterLou · Post by **ScooterLou** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:31 am

Instead of a rewrite of the owners manual I'd like to see a rewrite of the service manual.

chloefpuff · Post by **chloefpuff** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:22 am

Count me in. Totally useless with the technical but good with english, writing, and amateur editing. (Erics's professional background is daunting me.)

jonlink · Post by **jonlink** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:37 am

ericalm wrote:2. All content and info on MB is fair game. Use the resources we have. When possible, give credit to specific members, as we do in our FAQ/Reference section.

This seems potentially problematic to me. There is nothing in the TOS that transfers ownership of content from users to the site (that I've seen), so if any bucks (see below) are made off this, it could lead to issues down the road.

ericalm wrote:4. This project is for the benefit of the site, current and future owners. No one's going to make big bucks off of this. We do it because it's our passion and what we love.

I think this is a response to the "underwriting"? If so, I don't think neotrotsky meant in the monetary sense.

While this seems like a very good and useful direction, it sounds more like novelization of MB. I'm not against it, but it wasn't the direction I imagined. It really is more of a guide than a manual. I am absolutely positive good things can come of it, though.

To be honest, it also feels as if I've been squeezed out of this a bit. So, if needed I might be able to help, but I'm not sure in what capacity I'd be able to do so.

One suggestion, don't try and reinvent the wheel. Information on the VIN number locations, for example, don't have to be spruced up with a fresh new perspective, it just needs to be edited. It is only plagiarism if you are taking an idea (not fact) and the source isn't cited. This isn't to say new information and general rewrites are bad, but you don't need to start with a clean slate.

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:34 am

Oh, I wasn't talking underwriting in a monetary sense! I was talking in terms of intellectual property, technical support and information (which is as valuable as cash). In my trade we tend to include intellectual control under the concept of "underwriting" since so much creative work is done and traded before publishing and profits even begin, and it's important to make sure everyone's copyright and involvement is respected.

And, it was juts mentioned in order to make sure the factory recommended specs are in there and kosher with what the dealers follow. And, also to make sure that if this DID end up catching on beyond the forum that we're in line with whatever regs (copyright, UL or whatever other strange thing that could come back to bite anyone who has a document adopted by a manufacturer potentially) may come up in the future. Was just throwing that out there...that's all.

I myself am a professed Stella guy before and soon to be, so I won't be kicking in for this project since I don't ride one. I think it's a great idea either way! That and after 14 years in theater, you probably don't want someone who's job was to defend and enable directors and producers who butchered other writer's works in the name of art involved

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:31 pm

I think all Eric was trying to make a point of is that if MB members simply copied the existing Owners Manual, correcting the language to understandable American English, that those MB members, or even MB, could be considered in violation of Genuine's copyright. That's why the need for all new content. The new manual would probably follow the form of the current Owners Manual, but it shouldn't use any of that manual's copyrighted material, which could mean language or even images.

Or maybe I'm all off (again).

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:57 pm

Syd wrote:I think all Eric was trying to make a point of is that if MB members simply copied the existing Owners Manual, correcting the language to understandable American English, that those MB members, or even MB, could be considered in violation of Genuine's copyright. That's why the need for all new content. The new manual would probably follow the form of the current Owners Manual, but it shouldn't use any of that manual's copyrighted material, which could mean language or even images.

Or maybe I'm all off (again).

Not off, that's pretty much it. As far as MB content, what I meant was not that anything should be copied verbatim, but if we do something like a tutorial or some such we can make use of the info here and credit members where possible or feasible. If there is content we ultimately want to take directly form the site—photos, a post, etc.—we should ask the original poster.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:10 pm

jonlink wrote:
ericalm wrote:2. All content and info on MB is fair game. Use the resources we have. When possible, give credit to specific members, as we do in our FAQ/Reference section.
This seems potentially problematic to me. There is nothing in the TOS that transfers ownership of content from users to the site (that I've seen), so if any bucks (see below) are made off this, it could lead to issues down the road.

This is a correct statement about copyright. If someone wrote a set of instructions for how to convert your Buddy to run on canola oil, and posted it here, it's OK for that to remain on the site. But incorporating that text into any other "thing" (such as a downloadable or printable booklet) - whether for profit or not - would require permission. Copyright restricts the right to copy it from "here" (ModernBuddy.com) to "there" (the Manual). A fresh rewrite of the same information, but expressed differently, would be necessary. On the other hand, a pointer to the original text on the web site is perfectly fine.

One suggestion, don't try and reinvent the wheel. Information on the VIN number locations, for example, don't have to be spruced up with a fresh new perspective, it just needs to be edited. It is only plagiarism if you are taking an idea (not fact) and the source isn't cited. This isn't to say new information and general rewrites are bad, but you don't need to start with a clean slate.

You don't need a clean slate, but if you don't have copyright permission, you do need a clean sheet of paper. The information can be reused, but the way it's expressed has to be new.

jonlink · Post by **jonlink** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:25 pm

Syd wrote:I think all Eric was trying to make a point of is that if MB members simply copied the existing Owners Manual, correcting the language to understandable American English, that those MB members, or even MB, could be considered in violation of Genuine's copyright. That's why the need for all new content. The new manual would probably follow the form of the current Owners Manual, but it shouldn't use any of that manual's copyrighted material, which could mean language or even images.

Or maybe I'm all off (again).

TVB wrote:You don't need a clean slate, but if you don't have copyright permission, you do need a clean sheet of paper. The information can be reused, but the way it's expressed has to be new.

Even if an idea being copied is not copied verbatim it still constitutes plagiarism.

But you can't copyright a fact, much to the chagrin of organizations like the MLB. There is no reason not to use the owner's manual as a basis for, say, how to change the air filter. It is a fact, not an idea, and there is only one way to do it. If you write that, "Albany is the capital of NY." you can't sue anyone for copyright infringement or accuse folks of plagiarism, if they also write the same thing. This means that if you write, "Push the key in and turn counterclockwise to open the seat." or something similar, you haven't committed plagiarism or any intellectual property crimes. If you still don't believe me, I guess I'd be interested in seeing how people plan to express instructions on changing the air filter. I doubt it could be changed enough not to be considered "plagiarism" as it's been outlined in this posting.

This is the last I'll speak on that subject so as not to get too annoying. I just wanted to make sure my point was understood.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:17 pm

(There's a misattributed quote above. Which I'd ignore if not for the subject of this discussion.

)

Plagiarism is claiming someone else's original work as your own.

Copyright violation is copying someone else's original work without permission, even if you cite the source.

Basic facts (location of the spark plug) and unoriginal ideas (such as how to change the oil) are not covered by either of these concepts. Original ideas (clever ways to improve your mileage) are protected against plagiarism, and the original expression of ideas (creatively describing a process) are protected by copyright, and should only be reproduced with the appropriate credit and/or permission.

jonlink · Post by **jonlink** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:03 am

TVB wrote:(There's a misattributed quote above. Which I'd ignore if not for the subject of this discussion. )

Yikes! I fixed that.

TVB wrote:Original ideas (clever ways to improve your mileage) are protected against plagiarism, and the original expression of ideas (creatively describing a process) are protected by copyright, and should only be reproduced with the appropriate credit and/or permission.

I think those two are backwards, no? But on the whole I agree with what you said and, with the tiny exception of the above, think you've said it much better than I have.

still shifting · Post by **still shifting** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:36 am

And can I buy one? I love books... R

Keys · Post by **Keys** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:03 pm

Personally, I found the original owners manual so amusing, I'd hate to give it up! I actually have started a collection...both a Buddy and a Rattler manual. Great reading in the bathroom...

--Keys

DubSea Scoots · Post by **DubSea Scoots** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:31 pm

A small, itty-bitty request... Do y'all think you can include a new periodic maintenance table that shows miles (not kilometers) in this project? And any other maintenance items you can think of... Thanks!

Post by **ericalm** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:09 pm

DubSea Scoots wrote:A small, itty-bitty request... Do y'all think you can include a new periodic maintenance table that shows miles (not kilometers) in this project? And any other maintenance items you can think of... Thanks!

Definitely!

The basic schedule is:
Before or around the first 600 miles (for a new Buddy): First oil change and dealer service.
Every 2000 miles: Oil change.
Every 4000 miles: "Big" service, including oil change, valve check, transmission check, brakes check, etc.

DubSea Scoots · Post by **DubSea Scoots** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:51 pm

ericalm wrote:
DubSea Scoots wrote:A small, itty-bitty request... Do y'all think you can include a new periodic maintenance table that shows miles (not kilometers) in this project? And any other maintenance items you can think of... Thanks!
Definitely!

The basic schedule is:
Before or around the first 600 miles (for a new Buddy): First oil change and dealer service.
Every 2000 miles: Oil change.
Every 4000 miles: "Big" service, including oil change, valve check, transmission check, brakes check, etc.

Thank you!

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:49 pm

Here's the service schedule.

BootScootin'FireFighter · Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:58 pm

Soy nuevo en los Estados Unidos. Tengo un tiempo difícil aprender a hablar a inglés. ¿Puedo tener un manual hecho especialmente para mí en español, por favor? Sólo sería justo para todos los miembros de hablando no ingleses de este foro. Gracias por tomarse en este proyecto.

أنا جديدة على الولايات المتحدة. يمكن لشخص عمل نسخة باللغة اليابانية بالنسبة لي؟

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:54 pm

Mi tarjeta de residencia es en mis pantalones otros.

Hellvis · Post by **Hellvis** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:28 pm

Ja, das ist ein guter punkt. Waere es moeglich ein Benutzer Handbuch in Deutsch zu verfassen? Leider beinflusst meine momentane zustaende meine Englisch kenntnise.

jonlink · Post by **jonlink** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:02 am

BootScootin'FireFighter wrote:أنا جديدة على الولايات المتحدة. يمكن لشخص عمل نسخة باللغة اليابانية بالنسبة لي؟

すみません、日本語があまり分かりません。⇧

Anyway. I'm attaching a plain text file with most (~90%) of the current owner's manual for people to do what they will with. Some of the original text has been changed by me, in an attempt to make it more natural. I haven't proofed it at all, so there are bound to be some mistakes. It could be a something useful to build off of.... maybe.

RoadRambler · Post by **RoadRambler** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:35 am

Ok, if I understand the way the discussion has gone, per Eric (and others) it's probably not kosher to just take the current manual and correct the English and "readability" of what's already there, is that right?

jonlink · Post by **jonlink** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:52 pm

RoadRambler wrote:Ok, if I understand the way the discussion has gone, per Eric (and others) it's probably not kosher to just take the current manual and correct the English and "readability" of what's already there, is that right?

I'm not suggesting that happen. You have to start somewhere, though. It doesn't hurt to have something to start with.

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:42 pm

RoadRambler wrote:Ok, if I understand the way the discussion has gone, per Eric (and others) it's probably not kosher to just take the current manual and correct the English and "readability" of what's already there, is that right?

Yup; definitely not kosher. We're not really doing an edit of the existing one, but starting from scratch. Most of the information in the current manual is non-proprietary and worth having in some form, though.

Scooterboi · Post by **Scooterboi** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:51 pm

A thought.
There is a process already developed for proofing books by a large group of volunteers for the purpose of making them widely available in electronic format. Project Guttenburg. Check out: http://www.gutenberg.org/

Now, these guys are set up to do thousands of books and it has been running for decades. Way overkill for what we are doing but we might be able to "borrow" some ideas from their process.

Also (and again, building on what others have posted) it would be WAY cool if BOMP was expanded to be the Genuine Manual Project (GeMP or GuMP) and included plans for doing all the GMS scoot manuals. Some are better than others, but (as someone else has said) they all read like a bad sterotype.

Scooterboi · Post by **Scooterboi** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:54 pm

I for got to add that I am definitely willing to help out.
Oh yeah. I'm in. Bigtime.

black sunshine · Post by **black sunshine** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:06 pm

If we want to build this out into a site, I'd be willing to provide front-end coding and maybe hosting

jonlink · Post by **jonlink** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:16 pm

It occurred to me a while back that this would be best in wiki form.

Post by **ericalm** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:57 am

jonlink wrote:It occurred to me a while back that this would be best in wiki form.

Hmm…

Anyone have any experience with or opinions on free Wiki CMS we could host here?

ModernVespa has its own Wiki system, but it's a bit underutilized.

Scooterboi · Post by **Scooterboi** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:18 pm

ericalm wrote:We'll not be asking Genuine to underwrite this. They're very hands-off with the forum and it's best to keep things that way. That said, I will try to figure out if we can consult them for technical help and information.

Also, I imagine there may be liability issues with Genuine adopting something they haven't created or fully vetted.

A few ground rules for this project since we're doing it via MB:

1. All content should be freshly written and oriented towards new owners. This means no simple rewrites or plagiarism. I know we'll cover much of the same ground of what's in the current manual, so think about how it can be improved.
2. All content and info on MB is fair game. Use the resources we have. When possible, give credit to specific members, as we do in our FAQ/Reference section.
3. Don't get offended if your copy gets edited. Thanks to years in publishing, I am ridiculously anal when it comes to copyediting.
4. This project is for the benefit of the site, current and future owners. No one's going to make big bucks off of this. We do it because it's our passion and what we love.

So, a suggestion: Let's first hammer out a rough list of desired contents.
We'll then come up with a format for submissions. Then we'll take volunteers for first passes at specific sections.

Once we some more comments, etc. in this thread, I'll start a new forum specifically for this project and we'll get started. The assigned sections will be posted, then members will provide feedback and we'll make changes and edits accordingly.

How's that sound?

Been awhile and this thread seems to have stalled. SO anybody working on this? How about we start with the TOC in the service manual and get started?

Scooterboi · Post by **Scooterboi** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:00 pm

My preference is to have something I can print. Wiki are nice but I like having the manual where I can pick it up when I have a question. The garage is not a very iPad friendly place.

I did character recognition on the SM TOC pdf and then went through it by chapter to get the chapter name right as to what was covered. If what was covered was not intuitive I put a note under the chapter heading. I also rearranged the order so that it made more sense (to me anyway) on how you would approach a repair.

We already have alot of this stuff. Anyway here it is.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Table of CONTENTS

1. Operation

2. Specifications

(1)Torque value

(2)Wiring diagram

(3)Troubleshooting
A good idea but really needs a technical edit to make sure they make sense. The way it's written in the SM is pretty useless from bad translation.

3. Maintenance and adjustment

(1) Important Notice
Things to pay attention to regardless of the specific service. Safety concerns and others.

(2) Maintenance schedule
Table

(3) Battery
Access and maintenance

(4) Air Filter
Access and maintenance

(5) Lubrication
Type of lubricant and location
Instructions for engine Oil change, gear box oil change, grease axel.

(6) Spark plug
What to check for on a spark plug and what it means.

(7) Compression
How to check cylinder pressure and what it means.

(8) Valve clearance
How to gap your valves. (don't we already have this?)

(9) Ignition timing
Not how to change it, but how to check it. Easy way to tell if your CDI is messed up!

(10) Idle Adjustment
How to adjust the idle on the carburetor. (Again, don't we already have this?)

(11) Front brake adjustment (and this?)
Adjusting the cable and what the tolerances are for brake lever travel.

(12) Rear brake adjustment (and this?)
Adjusting the cable and what the tolerances are for brake lever travel.

(13) Tire 30
Tire specs (metric only), Checking pressure and inspection.

(14) Throttle cables adjustment 31
Adjusting the cable and what the tolerances are for travel.

4. Disassembly and Service.

(1) Body Panel Removal

(2) Front wheel service
Steering, front wheel, front brake, front shock

(3) Rear Wheel Service
Rear wheel, rear brake, rear shock

(4) Gas tank service

(5) Lubrication system repair
Diagram, oil pump service

(6) Drive train repair
Drive pulley, starter, clutch, driven pulley

(7) Transmission Service
Gear box, drive shaft and gears.

(8) Engine removal

(9) Carburetor

(10) Cylinder head and valve

(11) AC generator flywheel

(12) Crankcase, crank shaft

(13) Cylinder and piston

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Anybody out there still interested?

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:43 pm

Hm… what? Interested, yes, but busy! I still need to get the MB 2012 Calendar done!

Scooterboi · Post by **Scooterboi** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:45 pm

Cool!

I can wait. Just wondering if I was talking to myself. (AGAIN.)

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:26 pm

Oh, and thanks for taking the time to do that! I'll give it a look this afternoon!

I agree on a print-friendly format and, hopefully, a mobile-friendly one, too. I have brought my iPhone/iPad with me to the garage with PDFs, etc. I may eventually put all the maintenance manual PDFs on the iPad.