Route planners for just back roads

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:33 pm

With the mention of Amerivespa I figured I would look into riding out...maybe, I have used mapquest before.

How do you plan a route when you want to avoid highways? I tried clicking that as an option to avoid and it doesn't work. Any hints? I just want to see what milage is going to look like and I keep getting all hiway interstates

Southerner · Post by **Southerner** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:40 pm

I believe it's possible to adjust your routes by adding waypoints of one sort or another but I've never really messed with it much. Both Mapquest and Google frustrate me with their choices because the algorithm always gets you on the "main" roads as soon as, and for as long as, possible. This is probably the safest course for most travellers but not flexible and it often makes goofy mistakes.

Google can do a "fly-by" mode, which is kind of cool.

This is not exactly what you were looking for but is a website showing especially fun and/or scenic routes for MC riding in the U. S. Maybe it will give you some useful ideas at least:
http://motorcycleroads.com/

Edwub · Post by **Edwub** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:52 pm

Bing maps are pretty good; though I haven't tried long distance.

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:23 am

viney266 wrote:How do you plan a route when you want to avoid highways?

For a long trip, Microsoft Streets & Trips. It has a routing feature that lets you choose what kinds of roads to avoid, including Interstates, Toll Roads, and some other stuff I've forgotten. No matter what you use, it's always best to ask around because local knowledge is super important for avoiding routing yourself through really gnarly parts of town or over a mountain on a dirt road <- actual mistakes from a trip in 2006.

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:25 am

Or, you could just get a large format map (like, the 'old school' kind on *gasp*... paper!) and route it yourself. It's alot easier, you can see your waypoints in a clear manner, and you don't have to worry about a computer glitching up and sticking you on a freeway for 5 miles for no reason, and then have to re-route 4 hours out of the way to avoid it while on the road. And, when you do it by hand you get to understand your route WAY better.

Too many people are dependent on computers telling them how to do everything. It's shocking how many people can't even read an old school map. After encountering some of these types at a Yukon BMW Rally meeting I went to with my father, I came to a clear conclusion: So much technology... so many STUPID people

When one of the organizers pulled out a chart some of them were asking where they could download the map for their Garmin. When he said "there isn't one. This is a map. We're trying to figure out a known closure this summer..." alot of them went off, insisting to have one they could link to else they "wouldn't know where to go".

But, once you chart it out, THEN you can plug it into google maps, make the (countless) adjustments and upload it to whatever device for backup to make it easier on the road. For the initial routing, I say go with a physical map first, order some pizza and meet up with your ride mates. A good table session is always an excellent way to start a multi day ride.

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:45 am

There are a lot of companies that offer backroads maps for motorcycle touring. Others have maps for bicycle touring, which may be even better for scooters. If I'm unsure about a road, I check it out in Street View, which lets me know how many lanes, speed limit, terrain, etc.

I pre-route my rides using modified Google maps then print out the maps and, if I need to, make a condensed list of the turns and tape it to the scooter.

I've used turn-by-turn GPS and various electronic mapping in the car, but that's all an annoying distraction (to me) when riding.

Lokky · Post by **Lokky** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:51 am

googlemaps has an 'avoid highway' option by the way.

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:54 am

Lokky wrote:googlemaps has an 'avoid highway' option by the way.

It is NOT very good. I tried it for our Amerivespa route, and it put us on the interstate 12 TIMES for a grand total of 100 miles. Not cool.

It gave me a vague idea, but we've just decided to sit down and plot it by hand first. Then see what Bing maps and Google maps come up with. I of course want to upload everything into Bing maps, but Wende is ardently Apple only and complains about Bing maps

This is her first big ride (she still has yet to get her permit!) so I don't want her getting lost or irritated at the mapping.

Lokky · Post by **Lokky** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:58 am

That's interesting, before posting about it I actually told it to take me from Richmond to Lake Geneva, WI, and it faithfully stayed off highways

Edit: actually nevermind, it does jump on for a tract

Southerner · Post by **Southerner** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:10 am

Thankfully, maps are my business. I got no problem with paper. Except you can't ride and read his map, It can't tell you where to turn while riding, etc.

There's no reason you can't use both paper and gadgets.

Silver Streak · Post by **Silver Streak** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:23 am

ericalm wrote:There are a lot of companies that offer backroads maps for motorcycle touring. Others have maps for bicycle touring, which may be even better for scooters. If I'm unsure about a road, I check it out in Street View, which lets me know how many lanes, speed limit, terrain, etc.

I pre-route my rides using modified Google maps then print out the maps and, if I need to, make a condensed list of the turns and tape it to the scooter.

This is how I roll, too, Eric, except I find Bing's maps more readable than Google's (because of color choices).

I tried the bicycle maps when planning my trip to Colorado and back a year and a half ago. If I'd followed the recommended bicycle route, it would have taken me 9 days each way instead of 6! I favored fast secondary roads, but the bike maps favored nearly all country byways.

pdxrita · Post by **pdxrita** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:43 am

Maybe try using Google Maps set to Bicycle? Also, with Google maps, you can grab the route and drag it around to change it as needed. Of course, a reality check is always needed. We've had a few too many people getting into trouble here in Oregon because they trusted their GPS too much.

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:44 am

Its hilarious to my wife that someone gave me grief for using a computer over paper...I am soooo anti technology...

I was using the online map just to get an idea of distance and time. I am def. an old school paper map kind of guy.

I did try google map afterwards and found the no highway button. That helped at least make it more realistic...2 day trip for sure... 760 miles on a scoot. It may be time for for an upgear on the stella

No if I can figure a way to get the time off.

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:37 am

What the FAQ?

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:45 am

^^^^ You're wonderful!...Thanks!!!

I"ll check those out just for fun...I'd give you a gold star if I could

jijifer · Post by **jijifer** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:42 am

I do google maps, avoid highways and drag the lines where i need to. I also tape written turn by turn directions to my dash. My fancy GPS:

LunaP · Post by **LunaP** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:21 am

View my glorious Ram Mount:

IMG_1350 by Luna-P

I already had a TomTom... I likes it.

However, I also do what jijifer suggested- Google Map it, and drag the route as needed.

I vowed to never EVER used Mapquest again after several botched journeys in high school and early college- the last of which getting me completely lost and actually telling me to turn onto a street that didn't exist, then turn the wrong way on a one-way. Never again. Mapquest is ebil.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:42 am

neotrotsky wrote:Or, you could just get a large format map (like, the 'old school' kind on *gasp*... paper!) and route it yourself. It's alot easier, you can see your waypoints in a clear manner, and you don't have to worry about a computer glitching up and sticking you on a freeway for 5 miles for no reason, and then have to re-route 4 hours out of the way to avoid it while on the road. And, when you do it by hand you get to understand your route WAY better.

Too many people are dependent on computers telling them how to do everything. It's shocking how many people can't even read an old school map. After encountering some of these types at a Yukon BMW Rally meeting I went to with my father, I came to a clear conclusion: So much technology... so many STUPID people When one of the organizers pulled out a chart some of them were asking where they could download the map for their Garmin. When he said "there isn't one. This is a map. We're trying to figure out a known closure this summer..." alot of them went off, insisting to have one they could link to else they "wouldn't know where to go".

But, once you chart it out, THEN you can plug it into google maps, make the (countless) adjustments and upload it to whatever device for backup to make it easier on the road. For the initial routing, I say go with a physical map first, order some pizza and meet up with your ride mates. A good table session is always an excellent way to start a multi day ride.

Ok, then take out your Rand McNally and get me to Camp Verde from Show Low. It will take you on the Gen Crook trail, which is either a stunningly beautiful ride or a hellish nightmare, depending on the weather.

What's wrong with using the tools available, no matter how they are powered?

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:14 am

Syd wrote:
neotrotsky wrote:Or, you could just get a large format map (like, the 'old school' kind on *gasp*... paper!) and route it yourself. It's alot easier, you can see your waypoints in a clear manner, and you don't have to worry about a computer glitching up and sticking you on a freeway for 5 miles for no reason, and then have to re-route 4 hours out of the way to avoid it while on the road. And, when you do it by hand you get to understand your route WAY better.

Too many people are dependent on computers telling them how to do everything. It's shocking how many people can't even read an old school map. After encountering some of these types at a Yukon BMW Rally meeting I went to with my father, I came to a clear conclusion: So much technology... so many STUPID people When one of the organizers pulled out a chart some of them were asking where they could download the map for their Garmin. When he said "there isn't one. This is a map. We're trying to figure out a known closure this summer..." alot of them went off, insisting to have one they could link to else they "wouldn't know where to go".

But, once you chart it out, THEN you can plug it into google maps, make the (countless) adjustments and upload it to whatever device for backup to make it easier on the road. For the initial routing, I say go with a physical map first, order some pizza and meet up with your ride mates. A good table session is always an excellent way to start a multi day ride.
Ok, then take out your Rand McNally and get me to Camp Verde from Show Low. It will take you on the Gen Crook trail, which is either a stunningly beautiful ride or a hellish nightmare, depending on the weather.

What's wrong with using the tools available, no matter how they are powered?

Perhaps I should rephrase: Those who ONLY use GPS I feel aren't fully prepared for long distance riding. I myself wouldn't trust a GPS for a cross country trip at ALL, but I'll take one along for some reference in the cities. I use the Bing Maps on my phone for quick reference occasionally for work, but for a trip cross country, I'm just a huge fan of using a hard copy current map to CONFIRM what Google or Bing maps tell me.

And, it's sadly still true how most people cannot read a map proper, or know how to use a survival compass, but that's another rant...

Southerner · Post by **Southerner** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:46 pm

viney266 wrote:.................................................................... It may be time for for an upgear on the stella ............................................

Hello? is it possible to gear a Stella higher? That's simple on a moto with a chain but I didn't know it was possible on a gear-driven scoot.

Sorry for the OT but if possible, this is the first I've heard of it.

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:54 pm

Southerner wrote:
viney266 wrote:.................................................................... It may be time for for an upgear on the stella ............................................
Hello? is it possible to gear a Stella higher? That's simple on a moto with a chain but I didn't know it was possible on a gear-driven scoot.

Sorry for the OT but if possible, this is the first I've heard of it.

Definitely!
http://www.scooterwest.com/item_details ... r_cat=true

You can even upgear the CVT scooters.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:55 pm

Google, MapQuest, and other such services are a great way to start mapping a route to take. You just need to keep in mind that they are idiots savant, and take their advice with a skeptical eye.

When planning a route, I start by just plugging in the day's starting and ending points to get a sense of distance. My top speed is 40mph, and when you factor in stops for meals, fuel, stretching legs, and (most important) stopping to smell the roses and to see the sights and sites, I average around 20mph.

I start with Google's "avoid highways" option, which unfortunately interprets that as a mild preference, and will suggest a highway if the alternative isn't direct enough for the average motorist to put up with. I wish they had an option that interpreted it to mean "unless there really is no other way to get there, and if that's the case put it in blinking red so I know there's a problem". Even with "avoid highways" checked, Google will still put you on the busiest road, because by it's calculations (and those of every cager in the area) that's the "best" one. I compare the avoid-highways route to the bicycle directions, which suffer from an understandable tendency to seek out bike paths, or to favor the shortest possible route, even if it's more complicated to follow. If they match, I figure it's probably a good route. If not, I look at the bike route for ideas to improve the motorized route.

But that's just the first step. I zoom in (you want this in satellite mode, so you can see what the surrounding area looks like) and look for alternatives. For example, when riding around the Great Lakes, I've often tugged the route over, onto the road that actually runs along the lakeshore; it's usually prettier than the more direct road a few miles inland. If there's a big city along the way, I route around it. In my experience, some of the best roads are the ones that run parallel to US highways and Interstates: these are the roads that people took between cities 50 years ago, so they're reasonably direct, have gas stations and diners along the way, and are usually in good enough shape for scootering... but the people who are in a hurry are over on the expressway.

At least in the places I've been riding, you also need to look out for the opposite of the highway problem: dirt roads. Sometimes they're OK; other times they're impassible on a Buddy. StreetView is a good way to check for them. (And if Google doesn't have a section of remote road photographed, that's a sign that it might not be paved.) Spot-checking along the route that you've plotted is a good way to get a sense of what kind of road it really is: two-lane/four-lane, suburban/wooded/farmland/industrial/etc.

When actually on the road, I improvise as needed of course. I print a copy of the route I've planned, but I don't follow it slavishly; it's more something to fall back on. The first big road trip I took along a friend's TomTom, but only used it few times: to find a nearby gas station, when the road I was planning to ride was in the process of being removed and the gizmo was totally worthless because its data was as out-of-date as Google's, and when I just wanted to get through Green Bay in the minimum possible time so I asked it to give me turn-by-turn prompts. The next trip I bought a GPS app for my iPhone, but never really used it. Mostly I use the Maps app, bumping up the data plan for the month so I don't need to ration its use. At night as I snuggle up in my sleeping bag I review the route for the day ahead, looking at the printed versions of the maps from Google and on the phone.

Silver Streak · Post by **Silver Streak** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:57 pm

My "Polish GPS"... the only one I'll own.

Southerner · Post by **Southerner** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:15 pm

ericalm wrote:
Southerner wrote:
viney266 wrote:.................................................................... It may be time for for an upgear on the stella ............................................
Hello? is it possible to gear a Stella higher? That's simple on a moto with a chain but I didn't know it was possible on a gear-driven scoot.

Sorry for the OT but if possible, this is the first I've heard of it.
Definitely!
http://www.scooterwest.com/item_details ... r_cat=true

You can even upgear the CVT scooters.

Oh, neat! I do notice they recommend a big bore kit for the Stella. Wonder what the new top end would be?

Again, apologies for the hijack.

Jackie F · Post by **Jackie F** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:59 am

pdxrita wrote:Maybe try using Google Maps set to Bicycle?

You still have to be carefull. They may direct you to bicycle paths that scooters can't use.

One time I was using my iphone map. To avoid the interstate, I used the walking selection. It had me going to the wrong way on a one-way.

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:35 am

Southerner wrote:
Oh, neat! I do notice they recommend a big bore kit for the Stella. Wonder what the new top end would be?

Again, apologies for the hijack.

^^^ Check this thread for the tip of the iceberg

topic20699.html

There are 5 "common" big bore kits for the Stella, and it goes from there...There may be more "hop-up" parts for these things than Harley's...if thats possible.

Southerner · Post by **Southerner** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:52 pm

Thanks. I'll check in there and stop going OT on you guys.

BootScootin'FireFighter · Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:18 pm

jrsjr wrote:No matter what you use, it's always best to ask around because local knowledge is super important for avoiding routing yourself through really gnarly parts of town or over a mountain on a dirt road <- actual mistakes from a trip in 2006.

That's good advice. I was with a group heading deep into West Virginia for a snowboarding weekend. The GPS in the Exploder recommended turning off before Seneca Rocks onto "Forest Road 19". Sounded easy enough, but it was dirt and gravel, over 20 miles, with huge drops, no guardrails, fallen timber, light snow, and lots of mud. Good times! (not as much on a scooter).

viney266 wrote:I just want to see what milage is going to look like and I keep getting all hiway interstates

I had mapped it out and it's roughly 778 miles each way. So figure about 800-850 real time trip miles. I was just brainstorming, not throwing my hat in the rink yet. If I do end up going, maybe we can meet up in Western MD. I don't want to get my hopes up, that's where I went wrong last summer.

I use googlemaps, but it tends to lock up on me after several destinations. I've taken long and complicated trips and broke them down into several maps. Street view helps for complicated intersections, and use the overhead satellite to avoid big retail areas, business districts, and industrial parks. I don't like using the avoid highways option, since that locks out some key bridges. Sometimes the best way across a river is on the E-way for a short stretch, but I won't stay on for long.

Southerner wrote:Thankfully, maps are my business. I got no problem with paper. Except you can't ride and read his map, It can't tell you where to turn while riding, etc.

I like using the Rand McNally Road Atlas, usually about $10 from Walmart.

Silver Streak wrote:My "Polish GPS"... the only one I'll own.

Nice ride you got mapped there... I did that Skyline Drive trip about a month ago, it was great. I even saw a bear.

(That's how much of a geography nerd I am, I got that map dialed in even though there is no legible print in the picture!)

Modern Buddy

Route planners for just back roads

Route planners for just back roads

Re: Route planners for just back roads

Re: Route planners for just back roads