Stalling and Popping + helmet opinion

hchoa · Post by **hchoa** » Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:42 pm

Hey everyone,

Starting at about 600 miles it seems I have had to adjust my idle after only a few miles. I'm at 1600'ish and I think I've adjusted the screw like 4 or 5 times. The first time was due to the scooter stalling while I was riding at 40 mph and tried to accelerate. The times after that, the scooter stalls after riding at slow speeds while still letting the engine fully warm up.

Last night sfter adjusting the idle again and riding for about 11 miles the scooter stalled. I was cruising at about 30-35 when I upped the throttle but the scooter just didn't speed up. Then a pop, still no reaction to my throttle input. Then another pop. I got off the scooter and fixed the idle again, and rode home (fortunately I was only 3 blocks away).

So far I've thought that I was never able to properly set the idle since the first stall, and I've just been lucky that I set it in a position enough for it to run for a while before needing adjustment again. But I think its more than that. What else can cause this issue? Trying to decipher through the service manual I THINK it may be spark plug issue? dirty carb? (but its new so i don't know...)?? Loose idle screw maybe? Or is it just part of scooter life to be adjusting the idle screw every 200 miles?

The scooter is 1600 miles old, I bought it new in late august of this year so its been riden consistently (no long term storage). 1st service done at 450 miles or so, no other known issues.

2nd question: Is there a big difference in terms of safety and impact absorbance b/w a $80-$100 full face helmet, and a $150-$200 helmet? I don't mind spending $100 more if there is, but if there really is no need and its just a matter of brand name then...

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:50 pm

So with 1600 miles on your scooter you would have had your first service already at 500 miles and now be getting close to your second service. Has your scoter had its scheduled maintenance?

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:52 pm

Might have a little dirt or corrosion in the carb. The pilot (idle) jets in a scooter are SO SMALL it doesn't take much.

Try running a little carb cleaner thru it, or have a buddy help you remove it and clean it. Or even ask your local shop what they will charge to clean it. Pretty easy job on that bike.

Me? I'd clean the carb and put in a fresh spark plug.

The helmet? The crash protection ( according to several studies) will be close to the same. The DIFFERENCE in the pricier helmets? All day comfort and quality of materials lasting longer... If the less expensive helmet fits well and feels comfy, go with it...Not all $100 dollar helmets are made the same, some are pretty good.

jijifer · Post by **jijifer** » Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:55 pm

your bike's under warranty. Are you adjusting the idle yourself? I wouldn't be doing any DIY on a scooter under warranty that's having issues. Take it to the shop!

LunaP · Post by **LunaP** » Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:00 pm

I 100% agree with jijifer.

There's no reason you should be having to constantly adjust anything on your scoot when it's that new... take it to your dealer and have them help you figure it out.

I really hope you've have your first service, if not, you need to be going to your dealer anyway.

Your Buddy's under warranty- don't do too much DIY work!

hchoa · Post by **hchoa** » Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:57 pm

I guess it was lost in the sea of text: Yes first service was done before the 500 mile mark.

I took it to a dealer about two week ago and he basically told me he needed the scooter cold to do proper analysis of the issue. That meant I would have to leave it there over two nights, which I couldn't do b/c I need it for transportation. I figured i would it take it when my 2nd service is due and have everything checked out. 2nd service is coming up and I might do it earlier than scheduled at 1800-1900miles or so since I don't want to deal with this idle/stalling issue. Fortunately school is almost on break and I won't need it for transportation. I'll probably go this saturday tbh.

I'm just looking for some opinions on it, I don't plan on doing any self work. At the moment I figured adjusting the idle isn't a big issue, hence I did it myself.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:11 pm

Yeah, but your idle screw adjustment ONLY makes any difference when the throttle is at zero with the springs relaxed. If you're rolling along at 40mph with the throttle open, the idle screw is floating in thin air and it makes absolutely no difference to your engine's performance - it's not touching the carb body. So no amount of idle-screw tinkering will affect the bike's performance in motion.

That being said, it sounds more and more like a blocked main jet, or less likely like a gunked-up air filter. It either can't eat or can't breathe. Actually, if it's popping, it also might not be able to ... poop - the exhaust pressure might be a little funny.

But start with some carb cleaner (SeaFoam or the like) - it's the cheapest, fastest solution. See if it helps. If not, the carb may need to be pulled and the jets cleaned or replaced.

ed85379 · Post by **ed85379** » Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:16 pm

I am pretty certain that it stalling while moving would have absolutely nothing to do with the idle setting. That is *only* to keep it at a certain minimum of activity so it doesn't stall while actually idling. So you really shouldn't be adjusting that. From what I've read before, the idle should be adjusted such that, with the rear-tire lifted off the ground, it should just before it starts to spin. And if it never stalls while just sitting there, after warming up, it is fine.

Now, I have been having a similar issue with my scooter lately, that is popping and then losing power while riding at high throttle. I am pretty 100% certain that it was a bad tank of gas though.

I filled up a couple weeks ago, and right after that, the problems started. I started losing power and popping several times on the way home, and then the way into work the next morning, which is pretty nerve-wracking. I kept forgetting to put some Seafoam into it when I got home though..

Anyway, after half of that tank was burned away, I filled it back up, hoping to dilute what was left in the tank. That actually worked, giving me a couple days of smooth riding, until I was down to half a tank again. It started stalling on me again. I put in some Seafoam at that point, but it seemed to have no effect.

I just filled up again, while at ~1/4 tank, and just like before, as soon as the tank was freshly filled, it started running super-smooth again. No popping, no stalling.

It has been perfect so far on this new tank, except for one moment where I *almost* stalled it last night. I was running nearly full-throttle for a couple miles, and then suddenly dropped it to zero-throttle. That made it pop, and I almost lost power, but I managed to recover it. Just found it interesting that that caused that, but I suppose it makes sense mechanically.

jijifer · Post by **jijifer** » Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:17 pm

yeah, sometimes you have to leave your scooter overnight. My shop knows it's my only transport so always does what it can for me as quick as possible but it's been overnight a few times in 2 years. I hope all shops give us scooter-only folks that consideration. See if you can work it out where you drop it off early on a Saturday - like before it opens so that it's cool by the time the mechanics arrive. Have them agree to have it able-to-ride by close of business. That is, put it back together so you don't have to leave it until Tuesday (most are closed Sun/Mon) and schedule a follow up for the next Saturday should they not have fixed it in that time.

My sparkplug cap shaking loose made it pop and stall.
Bad gas has done that.
And the dreaded stator is known to cause such problems.

All you're likely doing by messing with that is burning through gas quicker.

but as a scooter-only person for 2 years I can tell you: you must have alternative transportation for the few times where you can't use your scooter as there are bound to be a few in the life of a scooter. So far I'm not been totally SOL. Bike, Bus, catch a ride with a co-worker.

hchoa · Post by **hchoa** » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:49 pm

I went for gas and to put some air in my tires just a while ago. While putting air on the back tire, this guy backs up without noticing me or the scooter and knocks the scooter over. Fortunately I was able to move out of the way but it was a close one. It didn't start at first but after a few minutes I was able to start it.

FUUUUAA is there anything I should look out for? The scooter got tipped over to the right hand side Just a few scratches, something leaked as the guy picked the scooter up I think it was gas?, When I got it to start it leaked a bit more from under the battery area. But then it stopped a few seconds after. There didn't seem to be any more leaking after I brought it home either. I'll start it up later and see if any leaking happens.

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:21 am

Man that sucks! I hope there was no damage to your scooter! Andif ther was that you got they guys info. Dang careless people!

Most likely it is just some gas spilling out of your scooter. Especially since you had just filled up. It should evaporate and all will be well as far as I know. Did you notice any gas smell when it was leaking?

LunaP · Post by **LunaP** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:02 am

Gah!

As far as I know, taking a few tries to start after a scoot's been tipped is normal.

But I hope you got the dude's info and license plate just in case

I'll bet ten bucks it was just some gas tho... hope you can buff the scratches out!!

Raiderfn311 · Post by **Raiderfn311** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:09 pm

Well..............adjusting the idle is so idiot proof I myself wouldnt waste a trip to the shop for it. Just adjust it in small increments. As far as the stalling and popping, I had the SAME thing happen to me and it was water in the gas. Give it a GOOD dose of stable and let it idle for a good while. The stabil(or seafoam os startron) will disperse the water in the gas into such fine particles that it will go through the system no problem. This is and ethanol problem, as ethanol will attract water from the air, especially in colder weather(Ive heard). Just my 0.02

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:20 pm

I'm with several others here. Sounds like you are adjusting the idle screw in an attempt to solve issues that have nothing to do with the idle jet. You then begin to cause some of your own problems. My first intuition would indeed be a carb issue alright. I'd start by using some Seafoam. If that doesn't make any difference, then physically cleaning the carb comes next. Given that the scoot is still under warranty you might want the dealer to do that.

ed85379 · Post by **ed85379** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:26 pm

To follow up on my story, the new tank of gas didn't fix it.

Every time I got down to half a tank again, the problems came back. At this point, I can't even get it to go 2 blocks without stalling.

On Wednesday I am going to have to call Genuine Roadside Assistance to transport it to the shop. I really hope this will be covered under warranty.

pdxrita · Post by **pdxrita** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:38 pm

I hate to be the one who always pops in and suggests "vapor lock" (quotes because it's a misnomer). But both the original poster and ed85379 describe exactly what I experienced - popping following by losing power and stalling completely. It always happened when my tank was getting low and went away with a refill, which also lead me to believe I had bad gas. Mine was induced by overfilling my tank one time. The fix was extremely simple - drill a small venthole in the gas cap, one on the inside and one on the handle. Since I did that, I have not had the issue again.

ed85379 · Post by **ed85379** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:39 pm

I open my gas tank every single time I get on the scooter, before I start it, exactly to prevent vapor lock. I've had vapor lock before. This is not vapor lock.

pdxrita · Post by **pdxrita** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:44 pm

ed85379 wrote:I open my gas tank every single time I get on the scooter, before I start it, exactly to prevent vapor lock. I've had vapor lock before. This is not vapor lock.

I'm not sure that's proof; I did the same thing and it didn't help. Seems to me that a few miles worth of riding is enough to reintroduce the pressure/suction situation, even if you do give it a breath of air before leaving. Anyhow, I thought I'd throw it out there because it's really the low hanging fruit of stall fixes and even if it doesn't apply to you, it might apply to others.

ed85379 · Post by **ed85379** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:46 pm

pdxrita wrote:
ed85379 wrote:I open my gas tank every single time I get on the scooter, before I start it, exactly to prevent vapor lock. I've had vapor lock before. This is not vapor lock.
I'm not sure that's proof; I did the same thing and it didn't help. Seems to me that a few miles worth of riding is enough to reintroduce the pressure/suction situation, even if you do give it a breath of air before leaving. Anyhow, I thought I'd throw it out there because it's really the low hanging fruit of stall fixes and even if it doesn't apply to you, it might apply to others.

And when it can't even go 1500 yards, like today? Not vapor lock.

pdxrita · Post by **pdxrita** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:54 pm

ed85379 wrote:
pdxrita wrote:
ed85379 wrote:I open my gas tank every single time I get on the scooter, before I start it, exactly to prevent vapor lock. I've had vapor lock before. This is not vapor lock.
I'm not sure that's proof; I did the same thing and it didn't help. Seems to me that a few miles worth of riding is enough to reintroduce the pressure/suction situation, even if you do give it a breath of air before leaving. Anyhow, I thought I'd throw it out there because it's really the low hanging fruit of stall fixes and even if it doesn't apply to you, it might apply to others.
And when it can't even go 1500 yards, like today? Not vapor lock.

You win.

ed85379 · Post by **ed85379** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:26 pm

So they told me my scooter was "fixed" after a few days in the shop. They flushed the fuel, and cleaned the carbs.

It wasn't fixed. There was absolutely no difference. Apparently they filled the gas tank before they test-rode it, and completely ignored me when I told them that the problem clears up when the tank is full.

So, it stalled once on the way home. And then the next morning, when the tank was about half-empty, it stalled like 6 times on the way back into work, and then once again during the 1.5 mile from work to the shop.

It has been a week since I brought it back to them. I finally called them today to find out what is up. They said it is "fixed" again, but they haven't taken it on a test-ride yet. This time they replaced the sparkplug.

I can see how a misfiring sparkplug could cause the stuttering and stalling, especially at high throttle, but I still don't see how a full tank of gas would make a difference, unless it is the weight of the fuel, or the pressure in the tank, pushing it through better, enough to get around the misfirings.

Hopefully they will tide-ride it today so I can go get it, since tomorrow will be raining (though much warmer). Technically they charge $20 a day to hold a scooter after service, but I'm betting they'll make an exception for me, considering their false $100 "fix".

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:23 pm

Spark plug? Hm. Doesn't really add up or explain a lot of this. Did they check the fuel petcock?

There are times when you can "fix" something on a scooter and get it running as it should be running without actually fixing what was wrong in the first place. Sometimes the fix will even stick. ::shrug::

ed85379 · Post by **ed85379** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:35 pm

I finally got my scooter back today, and it is finally actually fixed, just in time for snow tomorrow.

So I didn't talk to the actual mechanic, but second hand he "changed the spark plug and checked the fuel filter, yadda yadda".

Rode it around town, and then home, from a half tank down to 1/4, and not a single stall, and just one little pop right at the start of it (happens occasionally in the cold, or so I keep reminding myself).

The shop did not charge me anything else.

One weird thing though. After the carb clean, when I was riding it home last week, there was one acceleration where it felt like I almost did a wheelie. It really felt like the front tire came off the ground. Well, it didn't happen again, so I just shrugged it off. Well, I was talking to the guy at the shop who test-rode it for awhile today. He experienced the exact same thing. He thought maybe I had replaced the rollers or something, but I haven't. It's all stock except for the lights. Weird.