Maintenace Help for newbie

robotace · Post by **robotace** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:48 pm

Bought a used 2009 Buddy 150 at the end of last season so I did not get much riding in other then down the street. It is getting warm here in Michigan and I'm getting the itch to go riding. Going to pull it out this weekend and get all the spring maintenance done on it. But being a newbie not sure what oils filters etc..... Was wondering if anyone had some recommendations as to what oil filter, engine and gear oil (brand and weight) to use.

Thanks

Raiderfn311 · Post by **Raiderfn311** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:22 pm

Gear oil-85w140 Motor oil-15w40 You can get a filter from Scooterworks.com for 10 bucks. DONT get the red filter, get the black one. The black one has a hex-head on the end, which makes it easier to install. Good luck.

Edit- As far as brand, I love Motul 7100(full synth motor oil)but there are a bunch of good oils out there. As far as gear oil Im not as choosy, although Im not sure why. I just get a good synthetic of the right weight.

kmrcstintn · Post by **kmrcstintn** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:43 pm

filter: HiFlo brand # HF183 (I get it locally, but Scooter West sells it also); it has the slot in the end cap & Scooter West sells a tool that fits a ratchet to remove it

gear oil: Amsoil Severe Duty 75w-140 synthetic (got it from my Genuine dealer)

engine oil: this is a work in progress for me...@ 225 miles I had my dealer use Chevron Delo 400LE 15w-40 conventional; @ 500 miles I changed the oil (not the filter) and used Valvoline 4-stroke 10w-40 conventional motorcycle oil; after the break-in @ 1000 miles I will start using Mobil 1 4T 10w-40 synthetic motorcycle oil I got on sale

*** most 15w-40 oils are classified 'heavy duty engine oil' and have different anitwear additives (higher amounts of ZDDP that promotes degradation of catalytic convertors on most gas operated automobiles) and detergents & dispersants (to hold soot & combustion byproducts in suspension) that work great in diesel engines; I suspect that 15w-40 oil is recommended because its widely available & has the higher amounts of antiwear additives that protect air-cooled engines that run hotter than liquid-cooled engines ***

*** motorcycle oils also have higher amounts of ZDDP and other antiwear additives that work great in air cooled engines and do not have sulphates which interfere with clutch plates in wet clutch transmissions used on most motorcycles; I want to run the Mobil 1 synthetic motorcycle oil since it is 1) synthetic base oils and 2) has antiwear additives that protect air-cooled engines better than normal automotive engine oils which do not contain lots of ZDDP since it wreaks havoc on catalytic convertors ***

in simpler terms...is a scooter more like a small car or like a small motorcycle? in the future if I can't get the good stuff on sale I might opt to use synthetic automobile engine oil (to keep the oil change interval longer than with conventional oils) or even 15w-40 oil, but the oil change interval will be shorter

pdxrita · Post by **pdxrita** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:27 pm

kmrcstintn wrote:filter: HiFlo brand # HF183 (I get it locally, but Scooter West sells it also); it has the slot in the end cap & Scooter West sells a tool that fits a ratchet to remove it

I'd really recommend avoiding the slotted-style filter like the plague. I have that tool from scooter west and it really doesn't help. The slot has a rounded edge design, so the socket just slips right out of it. In addition, on the 150, because of the direction of the filter, it's really hard to get a socket wrench in there. There's just not much room. Pay the extra bucks for the hex head filter. You won't regret it.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:33 pm

kmrcstintn wrote: in simpler terms...is a scooter more like a small car or like a small motorcycle? in the future if I can't get the good stuff on sale I might opt to use synthetic automobile engine oil (to keep the oil change interval longer than with conventional oils) or even 15w-40 oil, but the oil change interval will be shorter

synth auto oil is fine. and if the "cheap stuff" is something like Shell Rotella T you're good 2 go. countless reports on the internets of folks using it in small engines for years with nary an oil related problem

robotace · Post by **robotace** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:03 pm

Thanks for the info that helps alot. I read a few posts of people using a syringe to fill the oil. Does anyone know where I might get one of those or possibly an easier way to fill?

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:26 pm

Check out our FAQs & Guides section. A lot of info and tutorials on doing maintenance in there: forum12.html

robotace wrote:Thanks for the info that helps alot. I read a few posts of people using a syringe to fill the oil. Does anyone know where I might get one of those or possibly an easier way to fill?

I got mine at a grocery store! It's a flavor injector thingy for roasting turkeys and such. I've added a length of tubing to the end. Available at medical supply or aquarium stores. (If you're going to a medical supply, you can probably get a large, graduated syringe there, too. My tubing was left over from a Harbor Freight brake bleeding kit that fell apart.)

It's easy enough to fill the gear oil, it's the draining that's a pain. The purpose of the syringe is to extract the bad oil cleanly, measure the exact amount you remove, and replace it with the same amount. Overfilling the gear oil can lead to poor performance and blown seals.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:45 pm

You use the syringe to extract the old gear oil ???? I wouldn't think you could reach it all. Well, maybe could syringe out some of it, but I think you'd need to drain the rest, then add up the volume.

However, the syringe and tubing _would_ be useful to get a precise amount of new gear oil in. I have a good measuring beaker, but it was clunky and messy to pour the new oil in the filler from the beaker.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:31 pm

PeteH wrote:You use the syringe to extract the old gear oil ???? I wouldn't think you could reach it all. Well, maybe could syringe out some of it, but I think you'd need to drain the rest, then add up the volume.

However, the syringe and tubing _would_ be useful to get a precise amount of new gear oil in. I have a good measuring beaker, but it was clunky and messy to pour the new oil in the filler from the beaker.

Actually, it's easier to drain on the Buddy than my LX (need a DIY oil catcher or to remove wheel). Too many maintenance procedures in my head! I think I have extracted via syringe and tube on the Buddy, though.

Drain via drain bolt, fill using syringe. Important thing is too replace what you drain and not overfill.

Fargo Rollin · Post by **Fargo Rollin** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:44 pm

Another question here, is there a good way to get close to 12 ft lbs when torquing the filter and pan bolt? I think I read somewhere to hand tighten and then another 3/4's of a turn with a wrench is good. Can anyone confirm?

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:49 pm

On the filter, yeah, that sounds about right. The O-ring will compress. If you're used to changing a car oil filter, be forewarned that you'll need to tighten the Buddy filter a little more, since it's an annular (circular cross-section, like a donut) gasket rather than a flat gasket as found on most spin-ons.

Don't go an extra 3/4 turn on the drain and screen bolts. That's way too much, and you'll probably strip 'em out. One memorable YouTube video said "torque the bolt to won't-fall-out". Beyond that, a torque wrench is a good investment.

jijifer · Post by **jijifer** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:27 pm

don't use synth oil until you're broken in. if your scoot is under 2k miles, keep using dino. You won't hurt it using dino either. changing to synth too early could mean your engine doesn't break in properly.

Raiderfn311 · Post by **Raiderfn311** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:46 pm

jijifer wrote:don't use synth oil until you're broken in. if your scoot is under 2k miles, keep using dino. You won't hurt it using dino either. changing to synth too early could mean your engine doesn't break in properly.

I realize the thinking on this but I have heard differently from a MC mechanic. It kind of goes along that saying "You shouldnt use synthetic on older engine, its too slick. Or it may leak" Now I realize its not a car, but MANY car manufacturers ship brand new cars with full synthetic. Their engines are different, of course, but they are very similiar in that they have pistons and rings. I realize you and I have spoken on this point before, so Im not trying to ruffle feathers, but I would REALLY like to see a definitive study on this.

kmrcstintn · Post by **kmrcstintn** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:53 pm

I thought the engine is broken in between 750-1000 miles; somewhere in the plethora of posts on this site I remember someone commenting switching to synthetic by 600 miles...I'm confused; I might just cancel the synthetic for now and just use conventional motorcycle oil or hdeo...depending upon prices;

to the person that asked...I use a syringe to fill the rear hub oil, but use the drain bolt to empty it; +1 on the rear hub oil change being nearly impossible on vespa's, aprilia's, and piaggio's; there is no way I would have been able to do it on the piaggio bv 250 & aprilia scarabeo 100 I used to own (traded on a vespa lx 150 (which was traded on a motorcycle)

Fargo Rollin · Post by **Fargo Rollin** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:26 pm

I have a question for some maintenance folk. So there's one small bronze bolt to the right of the oil drain plug in this picture; right next to that bolt you can see a part of the engine that appears to be flat. On my engine theres a fairly sizeable threaded bolt hole there with nothing in it. It looks to be the same case with this picture. Can anyone confirm that there should or shouldn't be a bolt in place next to the bronze bolt on the right of the drain plug?

Raiderfn311 · Post by **Raiderfn311** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:45 pm

This is JUST a guess, but......I noticed those threaded holes myself, and my only guess is that the engine can be mounted to a different frame using those bolt holes. Its a gy6 style engine thats pretty common, so Id guess its been put on different vehicles of different variations.

kmrcstintn · Post by **kmrcstintn** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:25 pm

corrected my confusion & made my choice of engine oil after talking to a few people, doing research (including prior threads on MB), and figuring my 'realistic' budget vs pragmatic expectations...

first what: Chevron Delo 400 LE 15w-40 heavy duty conventional oil with probably a 2000 mile oil change interval & it is specified in the owner's manual

why: 1) our scooters do not have wet clutch transmissions as motorcycles do so I don't need a motorcycle specific oil with a JASO-MA or equivalent rating that indicates lack of friction modifiers that might make clutch plates slip, so a non-motorcycle oil is acceptable, and 2) even though we run air-cooled engines, they have a forced air cooling fan that establishes constant air flow around the cylinder; this is unlike air-cooled motorcycle engines that end up with ambient air not flowing around the cylinders whenever idling, stopped at red lights, or in stop-n-go traffic at low speeds

Raiderfn311 · Post by **Raiderfn311** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:35 pm

I'm sure that will be just fine. Honestly I think people over-think it a bit, including myself. I kind of enjoy it though!