Sad news

2wheelNsanity · Post by **2wheelNsanity** » Sun May 06, 2012 5:18 pm

http://www.joplinpolice.org/article.cfm?AID=1115
Sry I didn't know the original post was against forum policy. I replaced it with just the police report of the accident and not the video.

pdxrita · Post by **pdxrita** » Sun May 06, 2012 6:24 pm

Not too terrible, but I'm glad this is my helmet, not my face.

Drum Pro · Post by **Drum Pro** » Sun May 06, 2012 8:37 pm

It's just the way it is. People turn a blind eye thinking, "it will never happen to me". People just hate being forced to do something even if it's in their best intrest.....

beastmaster · Post by **beastmaster** » Sun May 06, 2012 9:21 pm

the other day i drove my scoot in sandals board shorts and a tank top,

it felt great !!

Wheelz · Post by **Wheelz** » Sun May 06, 2012 9:24 pm

Sad to hear about this , personal choice, is just that, we can only give our opinions.
That said,

I smell a lock comin down on this here thread......

bluebuddygirl · Post by **bluebuddygirl** » Sun May 06, 2012 9:44 pm

This is a banned topic here, and yet it keeps coming up. It is an issue that is always going to have heated sides, which is why it is banned. It is ok to post the story, but you need to watch your comments. Please. As long as the law is being followed it is a personal choice.

pugbuddy · Post by **pugbuddy** » Sun May 06, 2012 11:01 pm

Some folks choose to wear them, some don't. The officer in the video is right--there needs to be legislation in place requiring them in order to increase safety. As long as there is not, it remains a personal preference as to whether you wear one or not.

michelle_7728 · Post by **michelle_7728** » Sun May 06, 2012 11:10 pm

pdxrita wrote:Not too terrible, but I'm glad this is my helmet, not my face.

Ditto!

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Sun May 06, 2012 11:17 pm

Just in case....

Southerner · Post by **Southerner** » Mon May 07, 2012 1:22 am

I do wear a helmet and would really like to wear an open face but was always told that injuries are most likely to happen to the facial area. I wear my armored mesh jacket to work in the morning but it gets so hot down here in the afternoons that I usually stuff it in the trunk.

Of course, when it gets right down to it, we can't limit our risk to zero so yes, it's a matter of personal choice.

Alabama has a helmet law and about the only shirkers I see are the guys on the cruiser bikes who wear those small turtleshell helmets that are probably not even DOT certified.

I guess they've made their choice.

Robbie · Post by **Robbie** » Mon May 07, 2012 1:23 am

Yeah, this can become a rather polarizing subject can't it?

I live in Illinois and was involved years ago with overthrowing the states helmet law.
That being said, I always wear a helmet, but my primary reason das little to do with safety.

I,ve been riding since age 14.....It pains me admit I'll be 62 in August.....good news though, still riding and having fun.
About 15 years ago I made a appointment with my audiologist....I was having a heck of a time understanding people if I was conversing in a crowded room.

Without going into too huge a detail, I have what is called 'nerve defeness'.

In my case, the frequencies involved are in the human voice range.
I've learned to live with it but the point is.....why me?

Well, the doc concluded it wasn't from gunfire, it wasn't from loud music, it wasn't from drag racing.....it likely was the result of unprotected ears while.....motorcycling.

Yep, wind noise....that drumming we hear above twenty mph is beating the eardrums....hard.
Over time, your eardrum begins to thicken, not unlike a callus (SP?) that you get on your hands due to repititave work.
And, they don't go away.....I retired (mechanic....narly hands) three years ago and my hands, other than being clean, are as beat up as they've always been.

Anyways, he made his determination by asking questions after the test....music, bombs, loud exaust and then asked if I ride a motorcycle.
Next came, Do you wear halmet?
Nope, well, maybe 20% of the time but thats about it.

Cut to the point, I wear a helmet all the time now...sometimes open face, sometimes full face, but always with roll up ear plugs.

Although the hearing loss is irreversable, the tinninitis (ringing) is not as loud as it was several years ago.

One of the interesting things, for me, is if I am riding and a car is my blind spot, the earplugs remove the extranious noise and I can hear the vehicles tires rolling just behind me.....actually has kept me out of a trouble more than once.

So, I won't preach safety.....were all big boys and girls here and you make your own decisions......but, the hearing thing.
Just decided it is something you readers should also consider.

Rob

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Mon May 07, 2012 1:41 am

Thanks for the first hand experience Robbie. I know I should be wearing earplugs, but I don't. At least I've always worn a helmet. But now I'll get off my arse and start using earplugs.

I've worn helmets for work, snow skiing, whitewater kayaking, and road/mountain biking. In all 4 pursuits I'd be dead today if I hadn't worn one. The only activity I wear a helmet where I haven't tested it with my life is motorcycle/scooter riding (thank God). Knock on wood!

I know first hand how my helmets saved my life in all those activities. I'm here simply because I wore a helmet. To do otherwise is simply foolish IMHO.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Mon May 07, 2012 3:46 am

beastmaster wrote:the other day i drove my scoot in sandals board shorts and a tank top, it felt great !!

And then I dumped it and it didn't feel so great

.

Post by **ericalm** » Mon May 07, 2012 4:20 am

The topic of wearing helmets isn't against the guidelines. What we don't allow is discussing helmet laws. That's actually more polarizing, as it gets to people's concepts of personal freedoms.

We also don't allow pointless bickering. Disagreement, respectful debate, yes. Non-constructive argument simply because people don't share the same viewpoint, no.

I don't think anyone can really argue with the idea that riders have much greater protection when wearing a helmet. Oh, I'm sure some intrepid contrarian can find a case when a helmet may have been injurious, much the way some people do when arguing about seat belts. Fine. But in an overwhelming number of instances, helmets prevent head injury and help reduce fatalities. Not an opinion, that's just fact.

Those who opt not to wear them are accepting a much greater risk. Think you need to be going 60mph to have a fatal head injury? Nope.

Not getting on a soapbox here, but a lot of people simply live in denial or ignorance of the risks and benefits. I was in both those camps to some degree when I started riding. And it took me a while to truly realize and deal with those risks.

If we really want to have an honest, non-judgmental discussion about that, we can.

I have a lot of friends who wear open face helmets and little to no gear. I worry about them. But that's about all I can do. They know I've been in crashes, and that I gear up, and that my gear has saved my bacon a couple times. I wouldn't tell them what to do and I wouldn't tell anyone here what to do.

rsrider · Post by **rsrider** » Mon May 07, 2012 4:34 am

CA does have a helmet law. On our way out of town today, I saw a bright yellow trike rolling down the hill (these are considered MC's in CA), and neither the operator or passenger were wearing helmets. I pointed this out to my wife and we were both taken aback. Just seeing someone without a helmet is pretty shocking. I wondered how far they would get before a LEO found them and issued the citation.

Edwub · Post by **Edwub** » Mon May 07, 2012 2:09 pm

Although Eric mentioned "helmet laws" are the taboo topic, I can't help but comment on one aspect. I feel as though it'll be a 'wait and see' scenario. I can't help but feel that eventually it'll be legally required in all 50 states. People will still discuss personal freedom issues and opposition against being "required" to do it, but that most of society will see it as a "duh" thing, much like seatbelt laws and other things.

Earplugs.

I've always worn full face or modular helmets. Never used earplugs. Never even considered them til now. I don't ride much, or at as high speeds as I want, so I'm assuming I'll be fine. What are the recommendations? When to use or not use?

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Mon May 07, 2012 4:28 pm

Edwub wrote:Never used earplugs. Never even considered them til now. I don't ride much, or at as high speeds as I want, so I'm assuming I'll be fine. What are the recommendations? When to use or not use?

Health and motorcycle experts recommend ALWAYS using them. I've just been too lazy to this point. But as Robbie said, losses are cumulative and I have noticeable tinnitis. So I'd better start taking better care of my hearing before it's too late.

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Mon May 07, 2012 4:56 pm

I wear earplugs under my helmet, especially on the highway for long trips on the motorcycle. The wind noise is noticeable at the end of the day. I feel a lot more relaxed after a long day if the ear plugs are used. And I wear one of the most quiet helmets on the market and still notice

Something else I think about helmets. I have been wearing one for over 30 years. I have "used" one in a crash once or twice, but the big plus to me is far MORE than crash protection.

1.)Rain
2.) Bugs passing farmer Joes cow fields at dusk
3.) Hail (yes I have OUCH)
4.)Debris thrown up from the road
5.) Birds

ALL these things have harmlessly bounced off the faceshield of my Shoei

Mutt the Hoople · Post by **Mutt the Hoople** » Mon May 07, 2012 5:14 pm

viney266 wrote:I wear earplugs under my helmet, especially on the highway for long trips on the motorcycle. The wind noise is noticeable at the end of the day. I feel a lot more relaxed after a long day if the ear plugs are used. And I wear one of the most quiet helmets on the market and still notice

Something else I think about helmets. I have been wearing one for over 30 years. I have "used" one in a crash once or twice, but the big plus to me is far MORE than crash protection.

1.)Rain
2.) Bugs passing farmer Joes cow fields at dusk
3.) Hail (yes I have OUCH)
4.)Debris thrown up from the road

Don't forget the 17 year cicadas
5.) Birds

ALL these things have harmlessly bounced off the faceshield of my Shoei

Mutt the Hoople · Post by **Mutt the Hoople** » Mon May 07, 2012 5:15 pm

I meant don't forget the 17 year cicadas lol... Guess I don't quite know how to work he quote thing

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Mon May 07, 2012 6:06 pm

First let me say that I always were my full face helmet, and my Kevlar jacket, and my armored pants, and my leather armored gloves, and my leather boots while riding my scooter and I always were my bicycle helmet when I ride my bicycle. I'm a mathematician and it just seems like the stats say the better bet is with the gear. That being said I would never infringe on anyone's right to choose just how much or how little gear they wear. A lot of lives could be saved if we made everyone who got into a car wear a helmet but drivers wouldn't have it. I've actually considered it (seriously) but then decided that the six air bags were probably good enough although I may feel differently if I ever get a head injury from a car accident.

Also, let's not forget that one of the fastest growing areas of fatality is with drunk pedestrians being hit by cars while crossing roadways (NPR just ran a story about this). Should we all be wearing helmets when we walk somewhere that would require us to cross a road, if we want to be as safe as possible then the answer is an obvious yes. We all decide what level of risk we want to take and then we deal with the potential consequences of those decisions. I just feel like people and other riders in particular need to respect one anothers personal decisions when it comes to his or her own gear choices.

/end two cents

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Mon May 07, 2012 6:46 pm

I really liked the half helmet the reporter put on. It barely mussed her hair as she said 'and this one looks about right'

Mutt the Hoople · Post by **Mutt the Hoople** » Mon May 07, 2012 6:57 pm

I'm with you... The closest I have come to not wearing full gear is a couple of times I was wearing Doc Marten shoes, instead of over the ankle boots. I have a couple of pairs of Icons now that I like... A dressy pair with wedges, in case I am going to work, and a more casual pair. My heavier Doc boots afe fine as well. But to me, it is just not worth risking it. I would not feel comfortable. I already know that I am taking a risk being out in the traffic with two wheels. But I see way way too many people texting and talking on their cellphones, eating, looking through their purses... Pretty much everything but doing what they should be when they drive which is to PAY ATTENTION. So I take a risk being on a scooter, but that's all the risk I am willing to take.

PS don't you just love the ones who justify almost running over you by saying how they can't see scooters or motorcycles... Like it is all your own fault? I tell them they would have seen me if they were paying attention. I have a maroon and creme scooter, and this time of year I have a white armored jacket... If you can't see me, then you can't see a bicycle, a pedestrian, a jogger, a kid, someone walking their dog... Etc. if you can't see them, you should not be driving and should consider a seeing eye dog.

Post by **ericalm** » Mon May 07, 2012 11:16 pm

We can improve car designs to reduce head injuries. We have improved designs and as a result, fewer head/brain injuries. They've steadily declined since the '80s.

Not much we can do for scooterists and motorcyclists in this regard.

The slippery slope or "well, we might as well do this…" types of arguments don't really have much bearing on the simple, undeniable fact that wearing a helmet greatly reduced risk of head injury and fatality. Having drivers of modern cars with all the current safety features wear helmets wouldn't have as profound affect on automobile fatalities and injuries.

A helmet, on its own, will reduce your risk of fatality in a scooter/motorcycle crash by 37%. "In other words, for every 100 motorcycle riders killed in crashes while not wearing a helmet, 37 of them could have been saved had all 100 worn helmets." (NHTSA, 2009)

Per vehicle mile, motorcyclists are about 25 times more likely as passenger car occupants to die in a crash. (NHTSA, 2009)

Helmets reduce risk of brain injury by 67%. (NHTSA)

While an open-face helmet can reduce risk of injury and fatality, those with facial injuries from crashes are more likely to suffer traumatic brain injuries. You hit your head, anywhere, and your brain suffers.

Brain injury is the primary cause of 54% of motorcycle fatalities. (NHTSA)

Your hospital bills will be lower if you wear a helmet. If you suffer brain trauma and survive, your bills will be 13 times higher than those who did not suffer brain trauma but were hospitalized for injuries. (U Michigan study; NHTSA; others)

scootavaran · Post by **scootavaran** » Tue May 08, 2012 12:07 am

viney266 wrote:I wear earplugs under my helmet, especially on the highway for long trips on the motorcycle. The wind noise is noticeable at the end of the day. I feel a lot more relaxed after a long day if the ear plugs are used. And I wear one of the most quiet helmets on the market and still notice

Something else I think about helmets. I have been wearing one for over 30 years. I have "used" one in a crash once or twice, but the big plus to me is far MORE than crash protection.

1.)Rain
2.) Bugs passing farmer Joes cow fields at dusk
3.) Hail (yes I have OUCH)
4.)Debris thrown up from the road
5.) Birds

ALL these things have harmlessly bounced off the faceshield of my Shoei

Yeah the other night a moth the size of a small house cat smack me right on the visor.
Thank goodness i had the visor down!

siobhan · Post by **siobhan** » Tue May 08, 2012 12:07 am

Edwub wrote:Although Eric mentioned "helmet laws" are the taboo topic, I can't help but comment on one aspect. I feel as though it'll be a 'wait and see' scenario. I can't help but feel that eventually it'll be legally required in all 50 states. People will still discuss personal freedom issues and opposition against being "required" to do it, but that most of society will see it as a "duh" thing, much like seatbelt laws and other things.--snip--

The history of helmet laws is very interesting. Your assumption that we're moving toward more mandated use is the opposite of what actually happened. I recall reading a journal article that looked at accident reports in, I want to say Texas and Arkansas, in the mid-70s, as both states went from mandated use to voluntary. This got me looking into the history a bit, so here you go.

http://www.iihs.org/research/qanda/helmet_use.html
Click on Question 3.

Edwub · Post by **Edwub** » Tue May 08, 2012 12:18 am

siobhan wrote:
Edwub wrote:Although Eric mentioned "helmet laws" are the taboo topic, I can't help but comment on one aspect. I feel as though it'll be a 'wait and see' scenario. I can't help but feel that eventually it'll be legally required in all 50 states. People will still discuss personal freedom issues and opposition against being "required" to do it, but that most of society will see it as a "duh" thing, much like seatbelt laws and other things.--snip--
The history of helmet laws is very interesting. Your assumption that we're moving toward more mandated use is the opposite of what actually happened. I recall reading a journal article that looked at accident reports in, I want to say Texas and Arkansas, in the mid-70s, as both states went from mandated use to voluntary. This got me looking into the history a bit, so here you go.

http://www.iihs.org/research/qanda/helmet_use.html
Click on Question 3.

Very interesting indeed; I somewhat knew the vague history (of repeals/weakening) but do think it'll happen. That was also the 80's / 90's. I think safety has really moved forward a lot since then as Eric pointed out above for cars. Safety testing has improved a lot too - all kinds of fancy tech and monitoring equipment. Seatbelt use picked up, etc, people are more aware of safety issues. I think ultimately, this will catch on for riders too. But the difference is I don't think it'll be done the same way (requiring states to enact laws to be eligible for federal funding) but rather it'll be enacted on a state by state basis.

Thanks for the link though, it's interesting to read about it in more detail!
State by state details; http://www.iihs.org/laws/helmet_history.aspx

re: ear plugs,
I might grab a pair from work and try it out. I'm not used to working with ear plugs unless I use a sonicator. I'd never really realized it could be at risk of damaging, though it totally makes sense.