2012 Stella 4t / CB350 questions

gilbee · Post by **gilbee** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:55 pm

so since i bought my stella i've been wanting more power. i've been browsing sites like pipeburn.com and google searching cafe racers all day. and i've come to the conclusion that i want to buy a Honda CB350 and slowly convert it to a cafe racer.
i guess my question is, how much of a difference is it going to be (power wise)?
i mean the obvious is quite a change due to power, wheel size, handling and shifting.
but what should i expect? what are your thoughts?

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:29 am

Damn, where were you when I was selling the 125?

Expect to spend money.

Seriously, start off by purchasing the best specimen you can afford. Speaking from personal experience, if you start out with a bike that requires beaucoup time, money, and effort just to be roadworthy, chances are you'll get sick of it before you even reach the cafe stage. Craigslist is littered with half-finished projects like that. Besides, if you find that it's not to your liking, it'll be a hell of a lot easier to sell than a clunker.

If things work out, you can sell your take-offs (fenders, seat) to help finance the project. There's always a market for OEM CB parts.

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:46 am

My thoughts are that I want one of these three bikes that Glory Motor Works built up for "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo."

Check out this article about the build process for some clues on how to do this right.

I <3 the old CB350s. I learned to ride on one. They're easy to ride, but they definitely run and handle like the old-school motorcyles they are.

Also, +1 on absolutely everything Charlie says above about buying the best bike you can to start with.

phatch · Post by **phatch** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:19 am

Never been on one, but those low cafe clubman bars look uncomfortable as hell. Bikes looks awesome though.

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:17 am

Keep both!...at least till you get the CB done. Totally different experience, but both bikes are fun. THEN decide if you want to sell the 4T.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:14 am

Not sure about down where you are, but in LA and many other cities, the prices on most Honda CBs are very inflated right now due to the cafe trendiness. Great bikes, very easy to work on from what I hear, but completely jacked up to twice what the same bikes were going for a couple years ago.

It would definitely pay to be patient and shop around, waiting for a good deal.

There are a lot of other bikes that you could probably get for less that are just as amenable to cafe conversion over time. The Yamaha XS is super-popular for cafes, but something like the KZs or Suzuki GS are less so from what I've seen. They also start out uglier in many cases… :)

Also, some CBs — larger ones — may be going for less than the popular 350. I'd love a 200, but they're harder to find and sometimes pricier in good shape because they're so damn cool!

gilbee · Post by **gilbee** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:10 am

ericalm wrote:Not sure about down where you are, but in LA and many other cities, the prices on most Honda CBs are very inflated right now due to the cafe trendiness. Great bikes, very easy to work on from what I hear, but completely jacked up to twice what the same bikes were going for a couple years ago.

It would definitely pay to be patient and shop around, waiting for a good deal.

I would be lying if i said I wasn't in it mostly for the cool factor :p they are extremely awesome and I'm into retro things.
Tustin is about 45 minutes from LA (traffic permitting). I'm just north of Irvine. (I actually plan on attending one of your rides one of these days

)

Yeah I definitely plan on keeping both. And I don't want just a project bike, I would need it as a daily and I would most likely keep the 4t just in case (plus I'm pretty much in love with the damn thing), I also want my wife to learn to ride and I would feel more comfortable with her starting out the way I did (on a 150cc as opposed to something she can easily whiskey throttle and get hurt).
But I would want to ride it while working on it. So I plan on getting something that's in good shape and slowly convert it.
Is a CB350 that big of a difference in horse power and torque? Will I need to be extra careful?

Thanks for the awesome feedback. I truly appreciate it.

still shifting · Post by **still shifting** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:19 pm

Don't overlook a 360 or a 450, both would be a long shot, but hey, one might show up. R

sc00ter · Post by **sc00ter** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:35 pm

We got a cafe'd 360 Honda on our coast for $1500 OBO on Craigslist.

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:19 pm

gilbee wrote:Is a CB350 that big of a difference in horse power and torque? Will I need to be extra careful?

Nah, the CB350 is very tame. That's part of the tongue-in-cheekiness of café racing it.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:57 pm

gilbee wrote:Is a CB350 that big of a difference in horse power and torque? Will I need to be extra careful?

Is a CB350 a big step up in power and speed compared to a Stella? Hell yes! Of course, a Buddy is a step up in power and speed compared to a Stella

. Will you have any trouble riding a CB350? No, they are a sweet bike. Just for the sake of discussion, have you considered an Enfield? Used ones can be purchased at a good price and the factory makes a nice cafe kit. (oodles of retro style)

http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/model ... racer.html

MGM · Post by **MGM** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:33 pm

What Dooglas said. If you'd like an idea of what's available in a used Enfield look here. http://www.royalenfields.com. I spent a year looking for a used Brit classic. My limit was $5000. Early 2010 got a NEW (leftover) 2009 Enfield for that price out the door. Mine was the last of the drum brake, carburetor, kick start Models. I'm not into the Cafe riding position, so mine is stock. But it satisfies the Brit bike need and, other than routine maintenance, has been trouble free.

gilbee · Post by **gilbee** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:58 pm

the main reason i'm considering a CB350 is because parts are so plentiful and cheap. i mean i don't want a cookie cutter cafe, so i'll customize it to my style. i mean i don't want to spend more than $3000 on the bike it's self, and i i'd like to keep the upgrades below the same.
if i were to buy a new bike, i'd get a bonneville, swap the seat and paint it.

MGM · Post by **MGM** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:13 pm

I've seen bikes from these guy's. Not your typical rust buckets. Also not cheap. http://www.vintagehondacb.com

siobhan · Post by **siobhan** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:36 pm

I'll add a couple more cents to this conversation. I have both a Vespa P200 and a bunch of CB350 Hondas in various states of rideability.

Riding differences
Well, they're very different. I feel smaller, more attached to the road, on the P. The P makes me feel like I ride inside of it; whereas, the CB, I feel like I'm on top of it.

I definitely get the CB going faster than the P. It's more fun to stomp on the P's rear brake than hand-braking. I love skidding the P.

The torque on the P makes it a lot of fun starting out from a stoplight.

The CBs definitely look cooler (probably because the P is ConEd blue).

I probably get the same amount of "oh I used to have" stories from older gentlemen.

I still can't get my head around how much CB350s cost out there (I'm a survivor of two years living in Irvine). I bought two for $300 in central MA. Yes, that's $150 each. And a third for $325 at an auction in southeast MA because I had to have the turquoise/white color.

Can you do all of us vintage purists a favor and buy one already molested? I don't get the cafe thing, and it breaks my heart to see really nice, all-original examples chopped up into something they were never meant to be.

That's just my two cents from a traditionalist.

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:22 pm

Oh, and your best friend in all of this will be the online Honda parts fiches/references. Whenever possible, order OEM, even if it's a few bucks more. And always make sure to vet your orders against the original Honda part numbers.

If at all possible, avoid relying on those Clymer "one size fits all" shop manuals. Lay out the cash for an official Honda shop manual, or see if you can download a free pdf copy.

When the time comes, give me a shout. I've got some leftover spoke weights and a nipple wrench (OK, everyone giggle) that you can have for postage. Everyone considers "splitting the case" to be the zenith of mechanical prowess. Bah! Try re-lacing, truing, and balancing a pair of spoked wheels sometime.

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:20 am

I'm not sold on the Enfields. The price for performance ratio is crummier than most scooters, which are crummier than most motorcycles. The modest HP increases for their Cafe limited edition doesn't compensate for the extra cost of that one, either.

Of course, I have a Stella 4T, so, yeah, I get the appeal.

I say just save up and get one of the super task new CB1100s.

Haven't ridden one, but sat on one at IMS. Slap a GB500 tank on it and call it a day!

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:29 am

ericalm wrote:I'd love a 200, but they're harder to find and sometimes pricier in good shape because they're so damn cool!

Hey, check this one out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda-CB ... 43b94b759a

Free shipping AND you can always sell the hack.

still shifting · Post by **still shifting** » Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:32 am

so, I know the 250 cc Rebel is not as good looking as the various CB Honda models, but there are droves of them out there Cheap. I seem to recall seeing a couple of Cafe Racer modified Rebels around. Just a thought... R

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:45 pm

In Phoenix, Café bike craze has reached fever pitch. You cannot find a vintage Honda without it being hacked up, chopped up, rattlecanned and commanding a $2500 to $5000 price tag. It's a shame because many amateur mechanics are hacking up old bikes like they're never going to run out, destroying frames and throwing away chrome. Now the parts supplies are starting to dry up locally and the prices are going up.

The KZ series is a GREAT option! I almost pulled the trigger on a KZ400 locally for $1200 in great daily driver condition, and there are more out there. Any of the Japanese brands are solid bets.

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:01 pm

I can't say that I would recommend the KZ400 as a great café-bike option. They may look the part, but the KZ400 motor is famous for throwing cod rods. It happened to my KZ400. It happened to my friend's KZ400. It happened to .... You get the idea. Also, the electrics weren't anything like as good as Hondas (or even Yamahas) from that period.

The KZ400s were built to a price point and it showed.

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:14 am

jrsjr wrote:I can't say that I would recommend the KZ400 as a great café-bike option. They may look the part, but the KZ400 motor is famous for throwing cod rods. It happened to my KZ400. It happened to my friend's KZ400. It happened to .... You get the idea. Also, the electrics weren't anything like as good as Hondas (or even Yamahas) from that period. The KZ400s were built to a price point and it showed.

Too bad. A friend who has both a KZ550 and a CB550/Four goes on about how fast and awesome the KZ is. He refuses to sell it to me cheap!

Guess I'll stick with the other motorcycle I've decided I'm getting when I get one but I'm not getting because I'd like to stay happily married to the fullest extent possible.

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:15 am

charlie55 wrote:
ericalm wrote:I'd love a 200, but they're harder to find and sometimes pricier in good shape because they're so damn cool!
Hey, check this one out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda-CB ... 43b94b759a

Free shipping AND you can always sell the hack.

Heck, no I'd keep it but not on the 200!

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:47 am

ericalm wrote:
charlie55 wrote:
ericalm wrote:I'd love a 200, but they're harder to find and sometimes pricier in good shape because they're so damn cool!
Hey, check this one out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda-CB ... 43b94b759a

Free shipping AND you can always sell the hack.
Heck, no I'd keep it but not on the 200!

Oh, I meant that the proceeds from the sale of the hack could be used to finance the cafe conversion for those doing so.

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:26 am

I'm curious. I know that CB350s have become objects of desire in LA (and elsewhere), but what about the Yamaha XS650? Those make great café racers and really only have one vice which is the starter motor. Who needs an electric starter on a café bike, anyway?

Half the fun is watching the astonished onlookers when you (gasp!) kick start it to life. So, have XS650 prices started climbing yet? I have to believe they will at some point.

P.S. Compred to the Stella, the XS650 is not tame.

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:04 am

The XS650 is HOT now. There aren't that many around, so I don't know the prices, but they're big with the custom shops and pop up frequently on the various bike blogs, Tumblr, etc.

Check 'em out: http://www.bikeexif.com/?s=xs650&sortby=newest

gilbee · Post by **gilbee** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:48 pm

jrsjr wrote:I'm curious. I know that CB350s have become objects of desire in LA (and elsewhere), but what about the Yamaha XS650? Those make great café racers and really only have one vice which is the starter motor. Who needs an electric starter on a café bike, anyway? Half the fun is watching the astonished onlookers when you (gasp!) kick start it to life. So, have XS650 prices started climbing yet? I have to believe they will at some point.

P.S. Compred to the Stella, the XS650 is not tame.

CB350 and the XS650s are sorta in the same boat. beautiful lines and soft curves

they both make awesome cafe racers.
i just want the CB350 because 1. parts are cheap and prevalent. and 2 because my first car was a honda, and i like to keep it in the family (even though i own a TC2 and a stella now lol).
an electric starter is a luxurious piece of wasted space on a cafe racer. plus (i agree with you) kick starting is way cooler.

gilbee · Post by **gilbee** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:55 pm

neotrotsky wrote:In Phoenix, Café bike craze has reached fever pitch. You cannot find a vintage Honda without it being hacked up, chopped up, rattlecanned and commanding a $2500 to $5000 price tag. It's a shame because many amateur mechanics are hacking up old bikes like they're never going to run out, destroying frames and throwing away chrome. Now the parts supplies are starting to dry up locally and the prices are going up.

The KZ series is a GREAT option! I almost pulled the trigger on a KZ400 locally for $1200 in great daily driver condition, and there are more out there. Any of the Japanese brands are solid bets.

my buddy is starting a garage and he has a CNC machine, powder coating equipment and (soon) injection mold materials. so the plan is to get the parts, not throw away chrome (strip the chrome and reuse the part if necessary) and manufacture parts that get around chopping up the frame. that way people aren't cutting old frames to extinction and still making kick ass bikes.

you guys have DP Customs out in new river. i'd love to see the making of one of there beast machines!

if you guys want to check out some amazing bikes, check out www.pipeburn.com
i scroll through those pages the same way i scroll through www.uncrate.com with my tongue rolled out on the desk like a toon.

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:44 am

There's a ridiculous abundance of incomplete, abandoned, "just needs a few things" (riiiiiiiiiiight…) cafe projects on Craigslist. It's kind of hilarious. AVOID!

still shifting · Post by **still shifting** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:48 am

ericalm wrote:There's a ridiculous abundance of incomplete, abandoned, "just needs a few things" (riiiiiiiiiiight…) cafe projects on Craigslist. It's kind of hilarious. AVOID!

Sounds like my writing files...

R

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:09 pm

still shifting wrote:
ericalm wrote:There's a ridiculous abundance of incomplete, abandoned, "just needs a few things" (riiiiiiiiiiight…) cafe projects on Craigslist. It's kind of hilarious. AVOID!
Sounds like my writing files... R

Ouch. I feel your pain. Over the past few weeks I've been cleaning out my house. I had so many of those "unfinished" writing files from back in the day when a writing "file" was an actual file full of papers. It got easier as I went, but hauling out giant contractor bags full of writing files, millions of words, was tough going. About the only moment of levity was that at the bottom of this gianormous pile of paper I finally unearthed the typewriter from whence much of that rubbish issued. Writers these days have it a lot easier. They can simply toss out a thumb drive and they're done. Just as long as it's not by accident.