Hesitation/misfires when test-driving 125

[snoutmeat]

OK -- test-drove a used Buddy 125 today. It's just above freezing, which doesn't make any 4-stroke engine happy. The owner hadn't started it for 3 days. Just for fun, I kick-started it, and it started on the 2nd kick. Went into high idle, fast enough to be vigorously spinning the back wheel, which is (I'm guessing) normal for any 4-stroke in cold weather.

Took it out for a test drive. Drove gently for a couple of miles, and then started to see what it would do. Because it's a hilly town, I intentionally headed for the big hill near where I live.

I coasted up to a red light,slowed to 15 mph or so, and the light turned green, so I twisted the throttle. Nothing. It just bogged down. I blipped it a couple of times, and got it to rev a little, with misfires. It started moving, but was clearly misfiring periodically. I went down the far side of the big honkin' hill, then turned around to come back up the hill. Each time I slowed down for traffic and let off the throttle, when I twisted the throttle to get going again, it would misfire. I figured it would die when I let go of the throttle, but it idled just fine.

So...the current owner drove it 3 days ago and has had no such problems. I believe him -- he seems to be a totally honest guy. He did also say that when he did drive it 3 days ago, it died when he came to a stop sign, but that it immediately restarted. He refilled the tank a couple of weeks ago, so it's unlikely to be either ancient (and stale) or brand-new (but contaminated). I noticed the other threads on bad stators, but it sounds like those bikes have real problems idling (symptoms don't really match). I also saw posts about Keys' evaporative canister clogging, but this scoot has <900 miles on it.

I was wondering if the cold weather might be related, but it appears that others are driving in sub-freezing weather without incident.

I tried searching for "sputter" and "stutter" but didn't find much...looks like Buddies are reliable scoots!

If the tables were turned, and I were a Buddy 125 owner reading this posting, I'd probably say, "geez! Do some basic troubleshooting!", but I was hoping that these symptoms matched a known Buddy problem.

Thanks!

[scullyfu]

hi, snoutmeat. the only times i've had my buddy die on me is when it is really cold out, say below 34 degrees (?). its happened like 5 times, but has started right back up on each occasion. someone posted on another thread that cold air is heavier than warm air, so its probably just that it needs to run a little bit richer. i haven't tweaked mine yet, but the air is getting very cold, as you know.

[joelh]

I had a similar idling problem when it hit 20 a couple of weeks ago. I reminded me of my mothers plymouth. It was "cold natured". I will test it again tomorrow when it is supposed to hit 18. I bit of tinkering may be in order.

[shark]

Ours is new, but I have ridden it several times at or around freezing and it always runs like a champ.

[ericalm]

While sputtering may not be a frequent problem, there have been a number of threads on running the scoot in cold weather. How long did youwarm the engine up before riding?

If this were an actual mechanical or maintenance problem, I'd first check the air filter to make sure it was clean and not flooded. Then I'd go to the evap hoses. Then fuel line. Then spark plug. Then I'd take it to my mechanic.

Yes, the Buddys have proven very reliable and mechanically sound. There have, of course, been some reported problems, but nothing widespread. One good thing is that there is a 2-year warranty so only the very first Buddys are about to start going out of theirs. If there's a recurring problem you can ask the owner to take it into the dealer to have it checked out before you buy.

[Keys]

I have ridden mine regularly in temperatures down to 19 degrees. I didn't have ANY problems last year, but everywhere has different requirements for their "winter" blend fuels. It is very possible your blend promotes more condensation and therefore, too much water in the fuel. With four or more cylinders in your car, and a larger consumption rate, you may not notice it in your car, but one little bitty cylinder with meager sippage of fuel may be seriously affected.

It is VERY possible the evaporative canister cannot deal with the level of condensation.

--Keys

[weaseltamer]

i've ridden my buddy when it was mid-20s out and had no similar problems. starts right up and wants to get movin!

[Ed Hit]

Another NOOB comment/Question.

Keys et al, I became a fan of HEET and other fuel line water removers in Chi town on my old Plymouth colt a few years back. Made it MUCH easier to start the car when it was 4 degrees out (like today!).

Does anyone use this in their Buddy?

Any experience with how it would interact with SeaFoam? Or does Seafoam just do enough of the same thing so I should not bother?

[MtnHippy]

This is an extremely helpful thread. Thanks for the input everyone!

I've had my Italia since August and it's been running like a top until today. It was 24 this morning and my buddy was having a hard time starting. I finally got it to start and after running rough for a few minutes it smoothed out and took me to work fine. I then made a run to the bank about 2 hrs later (temp was about 27 degrees), and it stalled on me at two separate traffic lights. Each time it stalled it died out, then backfired. I've run it as cold as 25 before with no problems.

I use this as a commuter vehicle and didn't ride it for a little over a week during Christmas vacation. Could there be some water in the fuel line due to the lack of use and fluctuation in temperature? The temps here in South Carolina have been all over the place, so there could be some condensation in the line.

Taking it to the dealer would be my best option, but unfortunately the closest Genuine shop is almost 2 hrs away for me, so I'll have to troubleshoot myself. Any ideas about what I could do to tinker with it would be greatly appreciated.

[MtnHippy]

Update: A guy I work with thinks it could be vapor lock. He suggested I open it up and try to clear the line between fuel and carburetor using an air hose to blow it clean...maybe add some water remover to the gas. Could this be the problem? I haven't had a chance to change the idle speed. I'll give that a go when I get home tonight.

Has anyone else ever dealt with vapor lock on their buddy? If so, what did you do to take care of it?

[shark]

Vapor lock is a condition usually caused by high temps. Your problem sound more like fuel condition or spark problem or spark timing issue.

[ericalm]

Update: A guy I work with thinks it could be vapor lock. He suggested I open it up and try to clear the line between fuel and carburetor using an air hose to blow it clean...maybe add some water remover to the gas. Could this be the problem? I haven't had a chance to change the idle speed. I'll give that a go when I get home tonight.

Has anyone else ever dealt with vapor lock on their buddy? If so, what did you do to take care of it?

I agree with Shark—I think vapor lock is unlikely. How many miles on your scoot?

[MtnHippy]

Thanks for the help everyone.

I have under 800 miles on it. Up until now it's been purring like a kitten...even at sub-30 temps. Then today it was wicked-cold at 24, and it began acting up with the rough start, backfiring and random stalls at stoplights. I haven't had a chance to work on it yet, but the symptoms sound suspiciously like Keys' evaporative cannister problem.

Was letting it sit without being started for over a week really that hard on it? I couldn't have ridden it most of that time even if I wanted to, because it's been raining so much. Last week alone we saw the most rain since I bought it as a matter of fact. Could the extra humidity possibly contribute to this? Maybe I should just drop in some water remover and see if it helps. Good idea or not?

[ericalm]

Has it had the first service yet? Could be evap canister. Could be a very dirty air filter. Could be fuel line, idle adjustment and probably a bunch of other stuff. How far is your dealer?

But I don't think letting it sit for a week would do anything except, maybe, weaken the battery. I'd just let it warm up a while longer before riding next time, let the idle settle down, then see how it does.

[MtnHippy]

I did the first oil change myself using the tips here on the boards. It went great, and everything was dandy until now. Like I said, the dealer is about 2 hrs away, but if I can't get it figured out this weekend I guess I'll have to trailer it up and let them take a look at it.

Thanks again. I'll let you know what happens.

[OScoot!]

I have a Buddy 50 that starting doing the same thing. Since it's just been serviced (at 500 miles)...I would think that dirty plugs, etc would not be the issue. I started mine up last night.....it was in the low 20's. Let it warm up for just a few minutes and then took it out for a slow spin around the neighborhood. It would do pretty much exactly what you described. I've noticed it starting to do this as the temps got colder.....however, once it got good and warmed up.....then the sputtering and lack of throttle response went away.

I'm hoping it's just the temps....and nothing more. If it continues to act this way after it warms up...then I'm off to the dealer.

[coopdway]

Here's the nugget that answers this problem from my long distance diagnosis...

.....however, once it got good and warmed up.....then the sputtering and lack of throttle response went away.

New, modern machinery is expected to run as lean (or leaner) as possible. Cold weather and a 'weak' gas/air mixture are fussy about getting along together.

Two minutes of idling and 15 minutes of riding result in a huge difference of "warmed up". We've got far more practice with this up here than is necessary.

[MtnHippy]

I can't even get mine to start now so I can't really let it warm up. It turns over and immediately dies. I tried giving it a little throttle right after it starts, but it dies so quickly that it doesn't have any affect. Plus, when it was stalling the other day it actually seemed to get worse the longer I rode it, not better. Today it's going to be warmer outside, so I hope to take it out in the sunshine and work on getting it going.

[Sl,ut4]

This site needs a tuning section..
Anyways. Probably a clogged jet or a fuel filter problem. The motor will run wild when it is running too lean.
How long was the scoot sitting before you started it? If the fuel is bad, the jets, carb, filter could be restricting flow.
Also, pull the plug

[ericalm]

This site needs a tuning section..

Got one!
Technical Library

[Dooglas]

I did the first oil change myself using the tips here on the boards. It went great, and everything was dandy until now. Like I said, the dealer is about 2 hrs away, but if I can't get it figured out this weekend I guess I'll have to trailer it up and let them take a look at it.

Remember that there is more to the first service than an oil change. Did you check valve clearance and the other items that are normally performed at the first service interval? If you did not and don't have the skills or experience to do so, I would say it is time for a trip to a servicing dealer.