Anyone ever loose/run out of oil

xtetra · Post by **xtetra** » Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:22 pm

Hi all.

OK, let me say I am a favor of using the torque wrench on the oil filter. The one time I didn't....soooo sad. Poor Buddy, I feel horrible. Filter came loose and she lost her oil at 45mph.

She is a 06' 125cc with almost 9K on the odo. Apart from this embarrassing travesty she has been well maintained.

Anyone here have this or a similar problem or work on a scoot that did? I'm just curious what damage I'll find when I tear her down. ie wrist pin going? piston slap? scored cylinder walls? just needs new rings?

I fully realize what happened in your instance does not mean that I will have the very same damage...I am just curious to hear from others who have gone through the same thing.

Before I go any further I am going to try and get a compression test. I think a friend locally has a gauge that will do the trick.

So far this is what I've done since she lost her oil, or rather I lost it for her. (Man that hurts to admit!!!)

- I did run a heavier than specked oil after this happened and it quieted the noise for a few miles but then it came back.

- Switched back to Shell Rotella Synthetic 5W40 (new filter too of course)

- Checked rollers and belt for damage from free wheeling as we coasted to a stop - they are OK

- Checked valves - within spec.

- Was metal in oil on first change after the incident and some, although less, when I took the heavier oil out after a few miles.

Right on, happy scooting and wrench turning!

Thanks,

John

Throwback7R · Post by **Throwback7R** » Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:18 am

the trans parts should be alright most of the damage will be to the rings and to the piston walls. I would also suggest to check the Cam shaft as well when you are checking the valve clearance. I wonder how long the little cam shaft would last with little to no Oil.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:57 am

Way back when, when the Buddy was fairly new, there were several reports of lost oil filters, with damage from none to total. It's not much help, I know, but just know that you are not alone.

lovemysan · Post by **lovemysan** » Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:02 pm

I used a hiflo brand filter from the local Vespa dealer. It came with 2 rubber washers stuck together. After 15 miles of riding it started spitting oil out between the washers. It sprayed the rear tire with oil which made for interesting handling. I double check the old filter the new filter definitely came with two rubber seals.

xtetra · Post by **xtetra** » Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:00 pm

lovemysan wrote:I used a hiflo brand filter from the local Vespa dealer. It came with 2 rubber washers stuck together. After 15 miles of riding it started spitting oil out between the washers. It sprayed the rear tire with oil which made for interesting handling. I double check the old filter the new filter definitely came with two rubber seals.

I'm glad you said that. The cheaper filters I used to get (and the one that came loose) just have an o-ring for a seal which I don't like. I paid extra for a high-flow this time, and knowing myself would have thought it fool proof for having a flat rubber seal. Now I'll always check!

I stopped by the scoot shop where they really know what they are talking about. (As opposed to the dealership sadly enough) The owner said sounded like rod-knock to him so it will be interesting when I tear it down for sure.

I will take pics and post when I get around to doing it. May be one or two weeks away. I hope to replace fork seals an battery on my Kawasaki and then do the standard start of season maintenance this week/weekend. After that I'll get to work on Buddy.

Beamster · Post by **Beamster** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:29 am

It is pretty disconcerting on how little oil the sump holds.

xtetra · Post by **xtetra** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:44 am

well more is never a bad bet, but if you loose your oil filter under power you are likely to run low enough to do some damage anyway.

I decided that just out of interest I will add some Marvel Mystery Oil to the oil tomorrow and see what it does. I'm just curious to see if it helps at all, mainly so I can tell other's in a pinch if its worth the five dollars or not. Whether it does or not, a tear down is in order.

lovemysan · Post by **lovemysan** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:15 am

xtetra wrote:well more is never a bad bet, but if you loose your oil filter under power you are likely to run low enough to do some damage anyway.

I decided that just out of interest I will add some Marvel Mystery Oil to the oil tomorrow and see what it does. I'm just curious to see if it helps at all, mainly so I can tell other's in a pinch if its worth the five dollars or not. Whether it does or not, a tear down is in order.

It won't. No amount of magic potion will fix damage caused by oil starvation. I would not run the engine anymore. It's likely will need a new crank, top end, head and cam. You could damage the engine cases by continuing to run it.

Your could upgrade the engine slightly.

161cc kit $150
Crank $175
Ncy Head $130
Cam $50.
Possibly other misc parts like the oil pump.

Plus 3 hours labor minimum.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:52 am

lovemysan wrote:I would not run the engine anymore. It's likely will need a new crank, top end, head and cam. You could damage the engine cases by continuing to run it.

I have to second this. Any damage in the cylinder will get worse and possibly cause more problems if you keep running the engine. After something like this, it needs a tear down. The piston, cylinder, etc. might all be fine but there's no way of knowing without looking.

JettaKnight · Post by **JettaKnight** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:37 pm

You might be lucky (like me) and all the damage is on the top end. If that's the case, now is your opportunity for a 161 cc kit.

If there's rod or crank damage, they you have to split the case - not an easy job.

What's it sound like when it runs?