NEED HELP!! Electrical troubleshooting

[BootScootin'FireFighter]

I'm in a jam. I recently started having problems starting my scooter after it's been running hard during the day. It wouldn't have a noticeable loss of performance, but after a stop, it wouldn't start up for a little while. The deadlights come on when I turn the ignition on. The engine cranks over like it's trying to fire, but no luck. I changed the spark plug. I changed the CDI today. I still have no spark. I held it against the valve casing and still no spark. I have a voltage meter, I tested it against the two coil prongs on the back, positive and negative, and still no spark.

I have no idea where to check next. It's stuck now at work, but I have all the tools I probably need to try to diagnose it, but I don't know where else to go. When I was riding in CBR 2012, I apparently had a bad stator replaced in Mississippi. Those symptoms were pretty different. It would bog down and cut off when I was at idle or waiting at a red light. That's how I got through the first day, but it didn't want to wake up for day 2.

The wiring diagram is more confusing than a where's waldo puzzle. Anyone have suggestions where to go next? Is there a magic fuse hidden somewhere that I can't find? I really need this fixed to make a big trip I had planned for this coming Friday.

[tortoise]

I changed the spark plug. I changed the CDI today. I still have no spark. I held it against the valve casing and still no spark. I have a voltage meter

Related troubleshooting thread.

[Tocsik]

I think it could still be the stator. I know you said it was already replaced and the symptoms were different but if you aren't getting spark and you've replaced the CDI, it could be another stator.
You might try replacing the coil. That's pretty quick and easy.
There is a fuse in the battery compartment but I don't think your motor would crank if that was blown.

[BuddyRaton]

tortoise has the link.

I know you had stator problems before but you also ran the snot out of that scoot on the CBR. If the stator checks out I would think of changing the flywheel or having it re magnetized.

[BootScootin'FireFighter]

Update:

called my local shop, got pointed in the same direction (stator). I took all the other stuff off up to the flywheel. It go exceptionally busy at work, so I finally got back to it a few minutes ago and I got dead-ended at the flywheel nut. I have everything except for an impact wrench. So I'm stuck here until tomorrow morning when I can get a ride to Home Depot. Figure I've reached my impact wrench borrowing limit that I should probably own one for myself. Once I get back and get to the meat and potatoes, I'll follow up with more.

[BuddyRaton]

You can check the stator readings without removing the flywheel. If you do need to replace it there is a good chance that you will need a wheel puller to get the flywheel off. I know there is a removal tool much like vintage flywheel pullers but I just use a standard wheel puller. The important thing is to pull it straingt off. Don't use two screwdrivers

[BootScootin'FireFighter]

You can check the stator readings without removing the flywheel. If you do need to replace it there is a good chance that you will need a wheel puller to get the flywheel off. I know there is a removal tool much like vintage flywheel pullers but I just use a standard wheel puller. The important thing is to pull it straingt off. Don't use two screwdrivers

I got it off, and the stator looked surprisingly clean and new. I still wiped a little dirt off the contacts just because I was already there. I put it all together and still didn't start up. I spent most of today back and forth chasing tools because the bike is still stuck at work. I had a new battery that was a backup for CBR, but was never used. I had to pour the fluid into the cells and leave it on the tender overnight. Crossing my fingers that this was the issue. The old battery was starting to corrode around the positive terminal. I cleaned the connecting cables off when I put the new one in. The last few times I tried to start it today, it sounded noticibly weaker like the battery was strained, so hopefully I'm doing the right thing. The LED dead lights came on, but it probably takes little juice at all to power them up. Tomorrow morning will be the breaking point. I can't get out from work, so hopefully it starts, otherwise I need to get a truck from Home Depot and hail it downtown to the shop. Those guys are very busy, I need this done by Thursday night to make my big trip this weekend. Fingers crossed.

[Stormswift]

I had the " improbable" situation : the new battery was deffetive. I got it at my dealers after my original 2009. all winter " tendrized" battery bit the dust. The new one would not hold amps. It showed as being charged at 12.40 , but until it was 12.80 it would not start the bike. The dealer was able to test it and it would not start their scooter either. They gave me a new battery. It charged. Bike started much smoother.

[BuddyRaton]

Follow the link tortoise posted. Use a VOM and run through the directions.

[BootScootin'FireFighter]

so after my trip to LI, the symptoms started to appear less frequent. I still felt a noticeable loss of power and the throttle would hesitate or sputter at WOT when I was around 51mph. Very hard to really push the Buddy much more than that. It felt like a headwind gust came at me in short intervals. I recently sanded down all the contacts on the stator and flywheel, which helped temporarily, but then things continued. I finally pulled the stator again to swap it out with a new stator and flywheel. Below is what I found. It's pretty obvious what was causing all my problems with shorting out and loss of power. The cable from the pickup was wedged against something that obviously got hot from the friction. I'm fairly confident in assuming that it was my error. It felt good to open it up and feel full throttle again!

[Tocsik]

Glad to hear you're back in the speed saddle again! Congrats.

[jrsjr]

Thanks for the follow-up! That picture really tells the tale, doesn't it? Very interesting.

P.S. I'd also be interested to know if you figure out what that cable was rubbing against. That's a common problem with certain motorcycles, but I can't recall hearing anybody say that had happened to a Buddy before.

[BootScootin'FireFighter]

P.S. I'd also be interested to know if you figure out what that cable was rubbing against. That's a common problem with certain motorcycles, but I can't recall hearing anybody say that had happened to a Buddy before.

I can't tell for sure, but most likely the flywheel was rubbing against the wire itself, based on where the fraying occured and how it was probably incorrectly situated.

New problem... I was riding home from NJ on Sunday with Lokky. We were running WOT for a good 75 miles without a break. After a 10 minute stop and fuel up, I wasn't able to start it up. It has been getting hesitant to fire. I pulled the plug, it didnt' look flooded, actually dry. The plug was chalky gray, Lokky said it looked like I was running lean. Would the resistance to start while hot be a sign that it was lean and the plug is fouled up? I have another plug and will adjust the carb accordingly to make it a little richer.

Is it clockwise (right) or counterclockwise (left) to make it richer?

[jrsjr]

...pulled the plug, it didnt' look flooded, actually dry. The plug was chalky gray, Lokky said it looked like I was running lean. Would the resistance to start while hot be a sign that it was lean and the plug is fouled up?

Just a quick note about terminology. Go take a look at this plug chart. See over at the bottom of the left column? Those plugs are "fouled." If I understand you correctly, you think that you were running lean (and therefore hot) and your plug looks like the third one down on the right side of the chart. That plug is "glazed" because overheating has melted the deposits on the plug and caused a glaze to form on the insulator. (and the electrode). From the picture, that's almost indistinguishable from the healthy normal light gray that a properly temp plug as seen in the upper left.

Reading plugs is kind of tricky, it's not easy to do from a picture.

I think it's probable that your motor was just being hard to start after running hard for 75 miles straight. That's not uncommon at all, especially among air-cooled motors which get hotter anyway. My 80s vintage BMW R100 motorcycle would do that on a warm day. I got in the habit on long rides of trying to find a hill to park at the top of just in case I needed to bump start it.

I would hold off on adjusting your carb and get some suggestions from the mechanics on this board. If you really are running hot, they might suggest that you run a cooler plug rather than adjust your carb. I don't know. I'll be interested to hear, too...

[charlie55]

Unless I'm mistaken, doesn't the adjustment only affect the idle mixture? If you're running WOT, I don't believe that it would make much of a difference at all.

[viney266]

^^^ Correct, very little effect on wot, but it could make it a little richer to be easier to start.

when was the last time you checked the valves? Buddy hard starts are often a tight valve, usually exhaust.