Has anyone installed an HID headlight on a Buddy?

Roofaloof · Post by **Roofaloof** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:22 pm

I've been thinking about how to upgrade the headlight on my Blackjack. I'd really like to convert the headlight to an HID, but am wondering if the electrical system can support it.

I've searched the forum and found that it seems to work on a Blur, but not on a Rattler 2-stroke.

Does anyone out there have experience with HID in a Buddy?

SonnyD · Post by **SonnyD** » Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:36 am

HID's generally are less demand on the system then Halogen...The HID I have on my Motorcycle draws the same power as a 35watt headlight....The bulb in my 06 Buddy is a 35Watt....not sure of the newer models....

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:33 am

If I remember correctly, HIDs may run at a comparable wattage after startup, but the igniter circuit (necessary for instant-on) can draw a greater load. Somebody doublecheck me on that, though.

thatvwbusguy · Post by **thatvwbusguy** » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:19 am

The startup current is pretty high with HID lighting because the electronic ballast is converting 12V DC (direct current) to high voltage AC (alternating current). After 20-30 seconds or so, all of the metallic salts in the HID capsule have been vaporized and the headlight should only be drawing its rated wattage (usually 35W or 55W).

The real problem with using HIDs on any of the Buddy or any of the Genuine Scooter lineup is the fact that the headlight housings on our scooters is a reflector based design, intended for use with standard automotive dual filament bulbs.

You know those cars you see with the blueish headlights that create a ton of glare and annoy the hell out of everyone else on the road. That is the result of an HID being installed in a reflector headlight housing.

HID bulbs are designed to be used with a projector headlamp, as opposed to the reflector based headlamps that are stock to all Genuine Scooters. The design of the HID bulb doesn't allow it to work properly with the reflector housing because it doesn't aim the light rearward onto the reflector like a standard automotive filament bulb does.

The opaque covering at the tip of an automotive dual filament bulb is one of the key design elements that allows the bulb to function properly with the reflector lens. Unlike a flashlight bulb (or an HID bulb capsule), no light is emitted through the front of an automotive dual filament bulb. Instead, it is bounced back to the rear of the headlight housing, where the beam shape (length, width and cutoff) is controlled by the parabolic reflector.

The precise positioning of the filament(s) is another important factor in how the lighting is managed by the reflector. Even tiny variances in filament position can have a major effect on the quality and quantity of light coming from the headlamp.

When you install an HID bulb into a headlight housing designed for a halogen bulb, the light can't be properly shaped by the reflector due to the fact that the HID bulb doesn't control the direction of light emerging from it. Aftermarket HID manufacturers often try to get around this by installing small mirrors (or moving shields for bi-xenon high/low beam applications) to mimic the basic design elements of the filament bulb, but the end product still doesn't function well in the reflector housing.

The fact that the HID bulb uses a high voltage electrical arc to create the light also means that there is no way to approximate the filament position that is so important to standard halogen bulbs.

All this adds up to an incredibly bright, but not well controlled light source on the front of the scooter that produces unacceptable levels of glare for oncoming traffic and often results in unwanted police attention or failed safety inspections. HID "conversion kits" are illegal in every state in the continental US as well as most developed nations where vehicle safety laws are enforced.

There may be some aftermarket projector headlight housings that would be possible to retrofit into the Buddy or other Genuine Scooters. The downside to this is that most properly designed HID projector headlights from reputable companies start around $500.00 and go up in price quickly from there http://www.rallylights.com/all/lights/h ... -beam.html

thatvwbusguy · Post by **thatvwbusguy** » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:19 am

double post...

lovemysan · Post by **lovemysan** » Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:00 pm

Is the headlight circuit AC or DC?

SonnyD · Post by **SonnyD** » Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:26 pm

I took the HID off my Bike, as i don't care for HID's...for their light, or their Longevity in a hostile atmosphere (bike)...Switching to LED on the bike, and would sure like to find something like that for the scooter too....

Roofaloof · Post by **Roofaloof** » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:54 pm

thatvw, thanks for the detailed and informative reply.

lovemy, it's a 12V DC system.

roasteroo · Post by **roasteroo** » Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:14 pm

Another question to ask is what is the voltage drop at the bulb on the buddy?
Maybe relaying the headlamp will make it brighter. If there is some electrical overhead, then maybe you could possibly up the wattage of the halogen.

thatvwbusguy · Post by **thatvwbusguy** » Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:35 am

Voltage drop will vary from one scooter to the next. Here is a good article that explains how just a small voltage drop can have a large effect on your headlight output: http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech ... elays.html

The simplest upgrade for anyone who is still running the stock headlight bulb in their Buddy would be to install a PIAA 70473 Super Plasma GT-X HS1 Bulb. They are unbelievably expensive (~$35.00), but they definitely do put out more lumens than the stock bulb without consuming any more power.

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:28 pm

I have the super plasma. sometimes they go on sale on Amazon. It's only been in there a few months so I can't vouch for longevity, but it's a heck of a difference in lighting. if it's $35 and lasts at least 2 years, meh

Roofaloof · Post by **Roofaloof** » Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:07 pm

It would be interesting to know the voltage drop at the Buddy's bulb. If it is low, that would be a good place to start with improving the lighting.

I've heard a lot of good things about that PIAA bulb. It definitely is pricey, but would be worth it if it's much brighter.

I've also been considering using a higher wattage H4 or 9003 bulb to get some extra lighting. It seems inconclusive how much extra juice the stock stator has. This would matter less to me since I use a battery tender.

I'd definitely want to check voltage drop, as a higher wattage would exacerbate any issues with that.

roasteroo · Post by **roasteroo** » Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:04 pm

thatvwbusguy wrote:Voltage drop will vary from one scooter to the next. Here is a good article that explains how just a small voltage drop can have a large effect on your headlight output: http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech ... elays.html

The simplest upgrade for anyone who is still running the stock headlight bulb in their Buddy would be to install a PIAA 70473 Super Plasma GT-X HS1 Bulb. They are unbelievably expensive (~$35.00), but they definitely do put out more lumens than the stock bulb without consuming any more power.

Check this page out in reference to the higher than rated output of bulb.

I think making sure you are making the correct bulb is burning its brightest, is the best course of action.

I am lookin to relay my Stella lamp with the UK switch. I have sent Daniel an email about it.

jrstone · Post by **jrstone** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:54 pm

thatvwbusguy wrote: The simplest upgrade for anyone who is still running the stock headlight bulb in their Buddy would be to install a PIAA 70473 Super Plasma GT-X HS1 Bulb.

This.

I bought one for the St. Tropez and it makes a huge difference. I have 55w Sylvania Silverstar Ultras in the Aprilia and the 35w PIAA seems to be just as bright.

roasteroo · Post by **roasteroo** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:47 pm

the 55w looked brighter on my stella, but when i went back to the 35w after the dc conversion that was brighter. i wasnt sending enough voltage to the bulb.

Voltage drop here is the key. see daniel sterns chart on voltage and resulting lumens.

Roofaloof · Post by **Roofaloof** » Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:52 am

I just checked the voltage last night. It was 11.5 volts at the headlight terminal pins with the motor at idle and the light on.

Per my multimeter, it was outputting in AC. I thought the Buddy had a DC electrical system. Can anyone comment about this?

Per that helpful chart linked above, this would dim my lamp's output considerably.

I also measured the battery terminals under the same conditions and it was 14.4 volts DC.

I plan on upgrading the electrical delivery to the headlamp with two relays and a wire directly connected to the battery. From here I'll see if I need any more light.

roasteroo · Post by **roasteroo** » Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:26 am

@roofaloof- I am very interested in you endeavors in this matter.

two mini 20a relays should be good. I want to wire my Stella, one relay for on off, one relay for high low. That is what I'm looking for the switches in the Stella forum. I have not actually measured my voltage drop, but judging from the Stella wiring, it's probably the same as yours or worse.