No certificate of origin

[squawkersmccaw]

There is a Buddy 50 for sale in my area. It's a 2009, has 553 miles on it, and is in great condition. I test rode it tonight, and also talked to the mechanic who had recently worked on it (it had been sitting awhile and the carb was gunked up). He also said the scoot is in great shape. This looks like a really great deal. I already have a Buddy 50; my friend wants to purchase this one.

The only problem is that the owner does not have the certificate of origin. She purchased the scooter new in 2009 and says it was not given to her and she didn't know anything about it. I believe her. The dealer she bought it from has a bad reputation and there have been complaints before about him holding on to certificates and then charging customers for them. I doubt he would still have it after all this time. If we can't find the certificate, what problems will this cause? A 50cc does not have to be registered in KY, but my friend does want to insure it. Should she buy this scooter?

Thanks for any advice!

[squawkersmccaw]

Sorry I forgot to mention the asking price is $1000!

[un_designer]

There is a Buddy 50 for sale in my area. It's a 2009, has 553 miles on it, and is in great condition. I test rode it tonight, and also talked to the mechanic who had recently worked on it (it had been sitting awhile and the carb was gunked up). He also said the scoot is in great shape. This looks like a really great deal. I already have a Buddy 50; my friend wants to purchase this one.

The only problem is that the owner does not have the certificate of origin. She purchased the scooter new in 2009 and says it was not given to her and she didn't know anything about it. I believe her. The dealer she bought it from has a bad reputation and there have been complaints before about him holding on to certificates and then charging customers for them. I doubt he would still have it after all this time. If we can't find the certificate, what problems will this cause? A 50cc does not have to be registered in KY, but my friend does want to insure it. Should she buy this scooter?

Thanks for any advice!

is there a vin number on it? maybe you can call scooterworks/genuine directly and ask them.

[pdxrita]

You can use this site to check to VIN to make sure it hasn't been reported as stolen.
https://www.nicb.org/theft_and_fraud_awareness/vincheck

[opposable_thumbs]

What do you need the COO for? You should def need the title but I'm not sure why you would need the COO.

[illnoise]

Right, the dealer would submit the COO to the state with the tax and title paperwork after the sale. In most states, the consumer never sees the COO. When the bike is resold, the old owner signs the title over to the new owner with a bill of sale (which can be a sheet of notebook paper, as long as both parties sign it). The DMV just needs the new Bill of Sale and the signed-over title to transfer the title to the new owner.

If, for whatever reason, the owner was allowed to take the bike without the dealer handling the paperwork, and then never filed for a title and lost the COO, it might be possible to get a duplicate, but that'd be something the dealer would have to handle with Genuine, I'd think. And I'd be nervous buying a bike that's been ridden for some time without a title or plates.

Bryan

[illnoise]

Oh, reading is fundamental. You don't need to register a 50 in KY? Amazing.

Call Vespa Lexington, they're legit and friendly and they can set you straight and tell you how to handle it. Unless they're the dealer you don't trust, but honestly, I talk to them a lot and they seem like great guys.

Bryan

[squawkersmccaw]

Thanks everyone! There is VIN on the scooter. The owner has neither the COO nor title. I bought my own Buddy from Vespa Lexington, they are truly excellent. I am going to call them today and ask how we should go about getting a certificate or title. It might be a bit of a hassle, but it seems like it can be done.

[PeteH]

I don't know if in "most states" the dealer handles the state paperwork, but here in MO it's the responsibility of the purchaser. Here the dealer hands you either the MSO on a new vehicle or the assigned title on a used vehicle, fills out most of the Application for Title if they're nice guys, and sends you on your way. The purchaser needs to take it all to the Dept of Revenue, pay the title fee, registration fee, and state and local sales taxes. It also needs a bi-annual safety inspection if more than some number of years old. The dealer must log the sale by VIN on a monthly summary sent to the state.

For a sub-50cc scoot, I don't know for sure, but in this case since the scoot does not need to be registered in MO, the state may mandate that the dealers collect sales tax, just as they would when selling a helmet. I'll ask my guys next time I visit the shop.

[ThreeSheets]

You can pay to file for a lost title, here in IL i believe it's 90 dollars.

[skully93]

Not sure what your state laws are.

In CO, before 2010 there were no titles on scooters of 50cc or less, so a bill of sale and a valid VIN and ID gets you a parking sticker, which is largely ignored anyway.

I would just do your best to make sure it's not stolen, get it, and then go through the process of requesting a new one. Your mileage may vary, but one of the reasons 50cc's get stolen here is that they really never get looked at.

[Cherylrox5]

I recently bought a 2006 buddy 50 from a person who moved from Denver Co. To texas. No title, because it has never been titled before. The paperwork to get it titled in TX is horrendous.

[neotrotsky]

The usual story in AZ is that they "lost the title/COO" and that getting a salvage title is "easy"! (If it was so easy, why didn't *they* do it, eh?)

The TRUE story is a rampant epidemic in Arizona: Title loans.

Around here, we have more shyster title loan joints than convienence stores! They are literally on every corner, and more are popping up every day. When the old attorney general Terry Goddard banned payday loans for their insane interest rates and loan shark style tactics to track people down and manipulate the laws at the same time, these slimy bastards resorted to a new tactic. They will use a title, COO or even a set of keys if the machine doesn't have a title to give you a cash loan. The rates are insane, and are variable AND compound. They require access to auto-deduct from your checking account and even have devious payment schemes where you start out paying once every two weeks. If you are late, it's automatically bumped up to once a week. Some joints even resort to once every 3 days (with fees, interest and penalties) if you are more than two times late.

And, since they gladly pay any and all DMV fees and turn over any info when requested, the state is actually HELPING more title loan agencies get started up in the Phoenix area. It's good money for the DMV and the loan sharks.

Why does this pertain to the current topic? Well, it's because of places like this that will give a loan on anything with papers, there are a TON of bikes, cars, RV's and ATV's without titles. Of course, no one tells you that it's because they don't have a title loan. They just claim that they either lost it, it never came with one or that you don't *really* need a title.

Of course, the minute you try to tag and register the car, it comes up as a stolen car. And guess who gets busted for that charge? Yep. The victim who bought the car without the title.

It's so bad in Arizona, one report on a study done by ASU stated that on a common classified ad company's listings (Craigslist), one out of 4 autos under $5,000 had liens or titles in possession by another party.