electrical shutdown trouble-shooting

ucandoit · Post by **ucandoit** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:54 pm

My Buddy 125 has suddenly lost all electrical power. When I push electric start there is absolutely nothing--no sound, no gas gauge reading. It will kick start and run okay and the headlight works, (when running), but no gas gauge reading, no turn signal lights, brake lights, or horn.

Can someone suggest where to begin with this to at least narrow things down a bit? I don't know how old the battery is. I've had the scoot one yr. It's a 2008. I kept the battery charged all last winter.

Would a blown fuse cause these symptoms? also, our roads are very bumpy, which rattles the scooter quite a bit, so something could have come loose.

ucandoit · Post by **ucandoit** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:19 pm

The glass fuse in the battery compartment is blown. While the scooter was running, right before this happened, there was a grating buzzing sound when I tried the horn or blinkers. I can't recall which. Then things went dead.

lefthandedrighty · Post by **lefthandedrighty** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:16 pm

the only thing now, is why did this happen

could have been a fluke, or something went wrong

replace that fuse and maybe you'll find out if it was a fluke or not

but usually fuses dont just pop on their own

ucandoit · Post by **ucandoit** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:40 pm

I agree. I will order the fuse as the auto stores don't seem to have the right size: 15A250V. I did a once-over on the wiring from the battery south and didn't see anything loose or worn. I don't know anything about the wiring in the front of the scooter, but will get out the Buddy 125 wiring diagram.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:09 am

If there's stillan open Radio Shack in your area, you can try finding your fuse there.

lefthandedrighty · Post by **lefthandedrighty** » Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:08 am

Not trying to thread jack but I miss my old local radio shack

They really came in handy occasionally

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:51 am

lefthandedrighty wrote:Not trying to thread jack but I miss my old local radio shack

They really came in handy occasionally

There are a few Radio Shacks in my area that still open with no immediate plans of shutting down, though they are more of a Sprint cell phone store than anything else. The good news is that they are still stocking electronic parts, kits, and tools. Maybe there is the same in your area.

ucandoit · Post by **ucandoit** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:22 pm

I replaced the fuse. With ignition in "on" position, the signal lights and brake lights worked, but nothing else would light up. The instrument gauges not working, horn silent. When pushing the electric start button, heard a "buzz" sound at first, but no cranking. Then, after doing all that the 2nd fuse blew. The battery is charged, according to the Tender JR. A bad battery shouldn't cause fuses to blow. I replaced the fuse again and this time the turn signals didn't work, only buzzed. I don't know what the next step is. If the fuses weren't blowing, I'd check to see if current was going to the starter motor. But the fuse blowing seems the priority. I haven't checked the wiring under the handlebars (front cover), never having taken the cover off. I should do that. It doesn't help that my husband keeps saying, "should've bought a new one". LOL Gotta laugh.

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:49 pm

Okay, I think I've got this one. Give me a second while I track this down in the archives. Back in a sec...

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:09 pm

Yeah, the thread I was looking for turned out not to be the easiest thing in the world to find, but here is the relevant bit I was looking for.

Keys wrote:The seat bucket on some Buddy's will sag to the point that it rests on the wiring loom which is located on the TOP of one of the frame rails. This stresses the wiring, thereby making it more susceptible to breakage. My wiring cracked inside the insulation between the wiring loom and the coil, delivering an intermittent flow of electrons. Sometimes it would work, sometimes it wouldn't. Sometimes it would run great, I'd put the seat back on and get on and it would die. And stay dead. The seat bucket was moving the cracked wires.

Have your dealer do a continuity test of all the pertinent parts of the wiring loom, taking care to move the loom around as he does so. Once the breaks have been located and repaired, move the wiring loom to the underside of the frame rail where the seat bucket cannot touch it. I even went so far as to put spacers under the bucket to keep it up.

Hope this helps.

--Keys

This post was from Keys, who told us repeatedly that he rode his Buddy hard on rough roads. I noticed in your OP that you mentioned how rough the roads are where you ride.

ucandoit wrote:...our roads are very bumpy, which rattles the scooter quite a bit, so something could have come loose.

Plus, the Buddy you are talking about is the same vintage as Keys. I think they altered the position of the wires to avoid these problems later on.

So, I'm wondering if this is what has happened to your scoot. If so, it won't be so easy to track down exactly where the problem is, but it would definitely be worth a look under the seat bucket to see if you can find any evidence of the wiring loom being pinched under there. You'll probably see chafing of some kind on the outer sheath. Do yo see anything like that?

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:26 pm

Just one more thing (hmm, seems I've heard that before...), how old is your battery? Just because the charger says it's charged doesn't always mean the battery is good. It may have good voltage with no load, but fail under a load. Autozone car parts stores test batteries for free or if you have a voltmeter handy, check the battery voltage while pressing the starter button. It should be at least 12V. As an additional check, kick start the engine and with the scooter on it's center stand, rev the engine to around 2500 rpm and check that the voltage at the battery is between 13.5 - 14.5 volts. Anything less could mean a problem with the charging system.

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:53 am

babblefish wrote:Just one more thing (hmm, seems I've heard that before...), how old is your battery? Just because the charger says it's charged doesn't always mean the battery is good. It may have good voltage with no load, but fail under a load. Autozone car parts stores test batteries for free or if you have a voltmeter handy, check the battery voltage while pressing the starter button. It should be at least 12V. As an additional check, kick start the engine and with the scooter on it's center stand, rev the engine to around 2500 rpm and check that the voltage at the battery is between 13.5 - 14.5 volts. Anything less could mean a problem with the charging system.

Agreed on all points except that it doesn't explain the main fuse blowing repeatedly.

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:52 am

babblefish wrote:As an additional check, kick start the engine and with the scooter on it's center stand, rev the engine to around 2500 rpm and check that the voltage at the battery is between 13.5 - 14.5 volts. Anything less could mean a problem with the charging system.

Also, if you do this test, please note how high the voltage on the battery goes, because too high a voltage could be blowing the fuse and would indicate that your voltage regulator is bad. Again, with the bike on the center stand, rev it (gently) and see if the voltage keeps going up and up above 15 volts or anything like that.

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:44 pm

My electrical adventures were thus:

Replaced Voltage Regulator...no go.

Replaced Stator...only lights at high revs

Replaced Flywheel...joy!

The shop said because of the all-weather conditions I ride in and the fact that it lives outside, my stator and many contacts on the undercarriage were corroded badly. Some new parts and some spit'n polish later, it runs just fine.

So you may want to test each of those in turn, make sure you're getting good current throughout.

ucandoit · Post by **ucandoit** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:04 pm

Thank you Jrsjr, Babblefish, and others. I'm pretty sure the seat is not compressing wiring when I sit on the scoot. All wires are neatly in place.

The battery tested good at Battery's Plus, though a little weak under load. I cleaned the terminal connection wires, the Neg. had a little corrosion but not much. Anyway, the scoot now starts with the electric start, which surprised me. The fuse, however, blows as soon as I use the turn signal or horn or flasher. My plan is to disconnect each in turn and see what happens. The top and bottom plastic panels around the headset of this scoot must have broken in the past as the owner taped those two pieces together tightly with electrical tape. Even the holding ring around the headlight is cracked and I worried the bulb would burn out but it hasn't. That whole handlebar area rattles quite a bit over bumpy roads, & I'd almost be surprised if something hasn't come loose or short circuited. I was hoping I wouldn't need to open up that area. I'm such a chicken. LOL. I'll be away for a while so may not solve this anytime soon. Thank you for so much good help. I learn from it.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:43 am

I was just looking at the wiring diagram for the Buddy and noticed that it specifies a 10A fuse, so it looks like someone put in a 15A fuse in the past perhaps in an attempt to "fix" the blowing fuse problem. Sort of like "fixing" a blowing fuse problem in older homes that use screw type fuses by wadding up some aluminum foil and stuffing it in the fuse holder.
If I were trouble shooting a blowing fuse problem, I'd use an ampmeter to check current draw for each electrical circuit, but then I happen to have such an instrument in my tool collection.

The front end rattling you're feeling is most likely due to a loose headset bearing. The one in your scooter is basically the same as on bicycles, only bigger. A good way to check if its the headset bearing is by locking the front brake (while stationary, of course) then pushing up and down on the handlebars. You'll feel the headset clanking around if its loose. Tightening up the bearing requires 32mm and 45mm open end wrenches, both need to be thin profile. A fine touch is needed to get the adjustment right because too tight and the bearings/races could be damaged not to mention compromised handling. If left loose and allowed to rattle, the bearings and races could be damaged, too. Replacement of the races would be quite expensive. The headset bearing on my Blur was loose and caused a lot of front end rattling while riding over rough surfaces and during braking. I went a step further when correcting my rattle issue - I completely disassembled the front end to check the condition of the bearings/races and found that the lower bearings (these carry the entire front end load) and found them almost completely dry of grease, not a good thing. I cleaned out all of the remaining dried up grease and repacked it with fresh grease. No more rattling and the steering is now smooth as silk.

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:30 am

ucandoit wrote:... the Neg. had a little corrosion but not much. Anyway, the scoot now starts with the electric start, which surprised me.

So you had a bad ground in addition to other problems. I'm glad you found that as part of the troubleshooting. A bad ground can mimic other problems and make troubleshooting extremely difficult. If you have an extra minute, it would be a good idea to follow that ground wire from the battery to the other end and make sure you have a good clean connection there, too.

ucandoit wrote:The fuse, however, blows as soon as I use the turn signal or horn or flasher. My plan is to disconnect each in turn and see what happens.

When you get back, try exactly that and post in this thead. We'll pick up the troubleshooting from there.

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:50 pm

In another unrelated thread, I noticed that user ucandoit posted an aside about the resolution to this thread. Here is what he had to say.

ucandoit wrote: The good news is that my fuse no longer keeps blowing. Just took things apart, tighten the horn switch, etc. and suddenly the problem is gone. Never found the short.

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 5:23 pm

I finally found the photo that shows the electrical ground connections. Here you go. Did you ever get this problem sorted?

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 5:52 pm

Thanks!

I continued to have some issues with mine, and they found that swapping the CDI helped. Fuses were blowing randomly.

If it blows again, I'll see if my bucket is sitting on the wiring!